Champions League 2014/5

[BonnieShels]

And 3-1 in the end. Stupid work got in the way again last night.

The dismissal of Bayern from the Champions League would warm the cockles

[OwlsFan]

Your cockles didn't get warmed then?

So after all the pre-qualifying games, group stages, knock out rounds, the 4 best teams at the start of the tournament are in the semi-finals.

The tournament begins.

[DeLorean]

Semi Final Draw

Barcelona v Bayern Munich
Juventus v Real Madrid

[BonnieShels]

Your cockles didn't get warmed then?

So after all the pre-qualifying games, group stages, knock out rounds, the 4 best teams at the start of the tournament are in the semi-finals.

The tournament begins.

Nope. I left work with no clue how it was transpiring and then Off the Ball ruined my evening.

As the lesser of 2 evils I really would want a Barca-Juve final.

[KK77]

I think Juve might edge past Madrid.

[SecondBall]

Juve are seriously good at the back, plus Pogba and Vidal will get rightly stuck into Madrid's middle 3, and have the legs to work them both ways on the pitch. It's whether or not Tevez and Morata (on his return home) can take it to the back four..Madrid for me over two legs, 5-3 on Agg..

[DeLorean]

I'd say Pogba is out for the first leg at least, unless he returns early from injury. It was reported as being seven weeks on the 20th March. Real will be down Modric, for sure, and possibly Bale, who might just make the second leg.

[Stuttgart88]

No goals yet but this Barcelona v Bayern tie is a seriously high standard of football. I hope Mayweather and Pacquiao are watching. Both teams equally looking to have a go but defending capably when needed.

Edit: Messi, what a genius!

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

That Bayern defence is laughably bad. Ribery & Robben can't bail them out now. Guardiola and that high line..

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Suarez has been a bit ****e tonight. Poor decision making.

[Charlie Darwin]

Only you could watch that match and only pick out negatives.

[geysir]

That was my type of a brilliant game and that was before Messi managed to score the first. Until then, Bayern were magnificent but Barca, once they scored, just entered that flow, the mother lode of 21C football. I don't think I have seen Messi unleash so much wired up celebration after scoring.
It's a good year when you can witness a match like that, between such adversaries.

[OwlsFan]

Thought it was a bit silly of Bayern to be over committed looking for the "away goal" and get caught out. At 2-0 they were still in the tie. Were they really expecting to win the home leg 1-0?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Remember how Messi was banned from drinking coke and he defied Guardiola and had a can of coke during a team meal.

Now half of the squad are defying Luis Enrique.

Something that I think will always hold back Spanish football is the fact - certainly at the high end - that there seems to be less affinity from players towards their clubs and fans and there seems to be less respect shown from the bigger clubs towards the smaller clubs. It reflects in how much of a monopoly Real & Barca have when it comes to TV money distribution. There is no way the English would let the Premier League become the playground of just two clubs. It's in the best interest of their League I suppose, but Barca & Real aren't complaining when they are sustaining momentum in Europe.

Look at Evra two nights ago like. Juventus just beat Real in front of a fervent support and practically the first thing out of his mouth is how Man Utd is in his (and Tevez) blood. That's what I am on about when it comes to affinity and respect. But Utd, Arsenal & Liverpool build dynasties under long-serving managers and organisational and institutional respect is demanded and reciprocated. At Real & Barca it's a constant revolving door and you have nonsense like Ancelotti's job being in doubt and Bale being harangued by teammates and fans.

Pirlo was sh*te the other day BTW. I thought taking Morata & Tevez off, bringing on Llorente and leaving on an exhausted Pirlo would come back to bite them, but they live another day, despite Pirlo conceding possession in vital places.

I don't think they should have done a lap of honor after the match.... I would still fancy Real.

[geysir]

Thought it was a bit silly of Bayern to be over committed looking for the "away goal" and get caught out. At 2-0 they were still in the tie. Were they really expecting to win the home leg 1-0?
Which is it? with 10 minutes to play, Bayern "at 2-0 they were still in the tie" OR "were they really expecting to win the home leg 1-0"? :)


Of course Bayern would have fancied their chances going into the 2nd leg, just 2-1 down.

[Stuttgart88]

The Spanish are now finally ending the way TV money is being distributed and are moving towards a more collective distribution model. The English model of TV distribution is better, but not perfect as relatively little goes downstream to grassroots etc. Parachute payments distort the distribution picture which makes it look like the EPL is benevolent which it isn't. But other institutional arrangements in English football stink too. It's a playground for oligarchs, and all kinds of spivs and miscreants.

Spanish football is really being held back at the high end? Two teams in the CL final last year, very possibly two again this year'. Three major tournament wins in a row and a string of highly successful national youth teams.

As for Spanish football and the revolving door I thought Barcelona in particular are a good example of an organic club, developing its own players and coaches from within. It's not exactly the club's fault if a coach dies in his 40s. Their governance is far from perfect but football with its kudos and its finances will never be a model of deep integrity. Bayern, again with its problems lime Hoeness and his tax affairs, are a dynastic club too, by and large. Nobody is perfect.

No argument as it relates to Real Madrid though. If your point was that Spanish football is facing a deep solvency crisis then I'd offer no argument there either, but I think it's hard to argue that the quality of their game is suffering or the game is being held back.

I was at Atletico V Elche two weeks ago and was struck by how community rooted the club was and how close the fans and players are to each other.

I think the Juventus lap of honour was less a victory parade and more recognition that come what may they have just finished their European home campaign with a win.

I'm not sure I have ever heard anything as daft as saying that Tevez has Man United in his blood. He has followed the money at every juncture in his career, ably assisted if not outright driven by the gang of spivs that used to own his economic rights. Or did I misunderstand you, you're actually saying both are mercenaries?

Bayern were naive alright but that's part of what made it a great game. Like Geysir I was loving it even at 0-0. There was so much quality on display it was unreal.

I fear that a Barcelona V Real final could be marred by the histrionics of bell ends like Ramos. I thought last night's game was played in good spirit.

[gearbag]

Great result for Barca but i dont think that tie is over yet.

[geysir]

I think Juve's lap of honour was more about them winning the scudetto on saturday, away to Sampdoria.

[Stuttgart88]

Fair enough. Either way not a tie-specific victory parade.

[geysir]

Most definitely not a tie specific victory parade, that's a certainty. Juve might throw the odd brown envelope a ref's way but never, in anyone's sane imagination, would they indulge in anything so crass as a 1st leg victory parade.

[osarusan]

Kind of a damp squib in the end. Barca's 2 goals in the first half killed it, but I thought they were a joke in the second half. Slowing a game down and seeing it out is one thing, but they were just woeful at times, so sloppy and lazy. Result never really in doubt, but not good to see.

[geysir]

Kind of a damp squib in the end. Barca's 2 goals in the first half killed it, but I thought they were a joke in the second half. Slowing a game down and seeing it out is one thing, but they were just woeful at times, so sloppy and lazy. Result never really in doubt, but not good to see.
I don't know what people can expect in the game after the event but Barca were asked a question early in this game and they answered it emphatically in the first half.
In a game of 4 quarters, they were brilliant in three, I can live with them doddering about in the 4th quarter, with last year's champions wandering about in a fog.
I certainly don't feel at a loss after that semi final, nor does football.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

They need to abolish the away goals rule.

[OwlsFan]

Why is that? Very few ties are actually decided on this so-called vital goal.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

It kills the tension.

[geysir]

Why is that? Very few ties are actually decided on this so-called vital goal.
Last night it was Real Madrid who had the away goal advantage until Juve drew level in the game and won the tie, totally on merit.
Once Juve drew level in the game, you just knew that the pendulum had firmly swung in their favour. They were as happy as pigs in shíte, revelling in their true vocation in football, defending an advantage in the last quarter of the game.

[osarusan]

It's a bit simplistic to just look at the score at the end of a tie and say the away goal didn't decide the tie.

Sure, that may be the case, but the influence it has over the shape a game takes is very obvious.

Off the top of my head, when Torres scored that injury time equaliser for Chelsea away to Barcelona a few years ago. final score: 2-2. Aggregate score: 3-2 chelsea. Game not decided on away goal. I am sure other posters can think of similar examples.

But in reality, Chelsea's away goal was the reason that Torres found himself in 40 yards of space in the final minute. Games not being decided on the away goals rule doesn't mean it isn't a huge factor in how games develop.

[Charlie Darwin]

Not sure how that amounts to "killing the tension" though.

[geysir]

Not sure how that amounts to "killing the tension" though.
You mean to say that all Madrid had to do was score a second, in order to reach a state of total parity in the tie??
Nah, that makes too much sense, it was the away goal that killed the game off.

[Charlie Darwin]

You mean to say that all Madrid had to do was score a second, in order to reach a state of total parity in the tie??
Nah, that makes too much sense, it was the away goal that killed the game off.
I'd have thought a scoring system that limits the number of outcomes in which a game can finish in a draw would increase or maintain the tension level in most cases.

[geysir]

I see now that probably the negative comments about the away goal rule were about the Bayern Barca game, my head had already moved to the Camp Nou game. I thought usually the campaign about the away goals rule being rubbish, hits the headlines when an English team gets cruelly beaten in Europe or one's own team loses out that way.

Most probably there are games where a deftly struck away goal at an opportune time has killed the 2nd leg stone dead and most probably there are games where the chance of the away team getting a game changer away goal has kept millions on the edge of their seat --> Chelsea v Barca 2008, Iniesta, God bless his saintly right foot.
And then Bendtner at the Bernabeu in 2011 with that late chance for a totally outplayed Arsenal, denied by a last gasp, tie saving tackle .

[DeLorean]

Yeah it's wrong to say it kills the tension because that only applies to certain situations, it multiplies the tension in others. That said, I still hate it. It's original purpose was to make teams more offensive away from home I believe, but in truth they're still generally satisfied with a 0-0 and so it only serves to make the home team more cagey about conceding. In my view it's simply unfair losing to a team after scoring as many goal as them, it's just wrong. A penalty shoot-out is a fair resolution I think, even if it's not perfect.

The last eight CL semi finals have now been won by the team playing a home in the first leg, maybe not such a disadvantage after all.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

"Yeah it's wrong to say it kills the tension".

:rolleyes:

The oracle has spoken.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/poll/2015/mar/18/should-away-goals-rule-scrapped-arsenal-monaco-champions-league

[DeLorean]

It adds to the tension in situations where one goal won't just draw a team level, but put them through. Iniesta's against Chelsea is a perfect example of this. Are you actually disputing this? It does kill the tension in other scenarios like when Barca scored their first the other night, I agree with you there. You shouldn't need to be the Oracle to understand these blatantly obvious and barely disputable points.

Wenger's points would hold more weight if they were made in victory, rather than defeat, I think. And yes Arsene, under the current criteria you did actually lose.

[geysir]

I'd regard for what it is, it's just the first differential used to separate teams who finish level in a tie. It's not that good of a method, neither is it that bad of a method. Most probably in european competition, it has outlived its purpose, away games are nowhere near as daunting as they were decades ago, therefore the away goal doesn't hold the same value these days.
I don't think much will change, just some games will be played differently. And some games will go all the way to penalties, which then becomes the final method to separate teams.

[DeLorean]

Chiellini out of final. That's that I guess :(

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I wouldn't trust Barzagli as far as I could throw him.

[DeLorean]

I do wonder if there's an element of faith on Juve's side though. I remember Alessandro Nesta getting injured before the 2006 World Cup. Against the odds, Italy went on to win the competition without him. That was at the height of the match fixing scandal. Cannavaro was the man to step up to the plate back then, Bonucci will need that player tonight I'd imagine. Berlin was also the venue for that Italian triumph. So anyway, Barca 3-0 :p

[Crosby87]

Might be 10-0 the way it looks after ten minutes.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Barcelona haven't been that much better than Juventus. But that wouldn't fit the Sky Sports narrative, would it?

[geysir]

It's turning out to be an excellent final, 2 superb goals.
In the first half, Neymar takes 4 players out in the space of postage stamp inside the box, shoots on the turn, just over the bar, Ray says "Neymar should have done better there"

[geysir]

Plucky enough effort by Juve against the team of the century.
Hats off (yet again) to Barca.

[Crosby87]

Neymar has some serious tax issues awaiting him.

[Stuttgart88]

Plucky enough effort by Juve against the team of the century.
Hats off (yet again) to Barca.
Favour please: for a reason I don't need to get into here, can anyone tell me the exact finish time of the CL Final? Judging by Geysir's post it was 9.46pm at the latest.

Some form of evidence would be REALLY appreciated!

Edit: #UCLFinal search on Twitter tells me Neymar's goal was 9.42pm at the latest (first tweet under that hashtag). The exact time of day of Neymar's goal is actually what I need.

[OwlsFan]

I see Neymar seems to think he's the Saviour (i.e. 100% Jesus).

[geysir]

Neymar might well be Jesus, but Clapton is God and reads the Beano

http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0002/164/MI0002164480.jpg?partner=allrovi.com