Champions League 2014/5

[DannyInvincible]

I'm sure most NI fans would agree the IFA were deserving of ridicule both before and after the limits you mention.

Would they actually? I thought one of the reasons the IFA took Kearns, the FAI and FIFA to CAS was to appease their faithful; to "look to be doing something on the issue".

[DannyInvincible]

Legia's appeal has been thrown out by UEFA, according to reports in Poland: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/legia-warsaw-champions-league-appeal-4047564

Not surprising really. I assume further information will become available later this afternoon.

Some comical quotes here from their owner yesterday: http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12040/9419670/champions-league-legia-warsaw-to-take-expulsion-to-cas-if-uefa-appeal-fails


The Polish club's co-owner Dariusz Mioduski told Sky Sports News: "We will take it all the way. If we are not successful today, as I hope we will be, we will take it to the Court of Arbitration in Lausanne because we believe we are in the moral right.

"This is not only about that. If we are forced to play in the Europa cup we will do so and will abide with whatever the final (CAS) decision is but we believe what has happened in this case is a bigger issue."

Mioduski was adamant his club had acted in good faith and added: "We haven't really broken the rules. I think we are quite sure that if UEFA looks at the situation and the facts they will see the rule that was broken could easily be misinterpreted. This is what happened in our case.

"Basically what it comes down to is the interpretation. It's a clerical mistake, a misunderstanding on our side but a misunderstanding also on the interpretation on the UEFA side which we are trying to clarify.

"The facts are that the player actually served the suspension so I think the spirit of the regulations whatever, however, it was interpreted was a guess and this is what we will try and show.

"I would say we are cautiously optimistic (on the outcome of the hearing). We have acted in good faith. Our argument basically goes to the questions of the interpretation of the regulation.

"If they had a bit more time they would not have taken that decision and we are looking for them for proportion. In other words, even if there was a mistake it cannot result in such a harsh penalty."

They "haven't really broken the rules" and the guy already "served the suspension"? Ha, what planet is he on? He obviously has little comprehension of what the role of CAS entails either; the court's role is simply to adjudge whether or not the applicable rules and regulations agreed by both parties have been correctly followed. It's role is not to offer a verdict based on what it might think the "fairest" or "most moral" outcome would have been. If Legia take moral issue with the regulations, they shouldn't have signed up in the first place.

[DannyInvincible]

By the way, does anyone know where I can find the wording of the regulation that outlines that a suspension can only be served so long as the suspended player is registered for a fixture and sits it out? Will have a better look myself later. Am just on one of the work computers at the minute and they're horribly slow and limited.

[osarusan]

By the way, does anyone know where I can find the wording of the regulation that outlines that a suspension can only be served so long as the suspended player is registered for a fixture and sits it out? Will have a better look myself later. Am just on one of the work computers at the minute and they're horribly slow and limited.

This seems to have it:

http://transfersblog.com/1980,celtic-vs-legia-case-what-is-it-really-all-about



Legia have been sanctioned for fielding a suspended player (article 18 of the UEFA Champions League regulations and article 21 of the Disciplinary Regulations). The match has been declared as forfeit meaning Legia Warszawa have lost the match 3-0.
...
Pursuant to article 18 par. 1 of Regulations of the UEFA Champions League, 2012-15 Cycle, 2014/15 Season:

In order to be eligible to participate in the UEFA club competitions, players must be registered with UEFA within the requested deadlines to play for a club and fulfil all the conditions set out in the following provisions. Only eligible players can serve pending suspensions.


http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/Regulations/01/94/62/34/1946234_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Page 27.

[ArdeeBhoy]

You're unusually naive about the FAI case. They asked Blatter for a private meeting AFTER criticising FIFA as both incompetent and dishonest, then put a proposal that was absurd. Unsurprisingly, he turned a situation of minor embarrassment for himself into one of ridicule for Delaney. Yes, someone a bit gentler and less ruthless might have just dismissed the idea in private, but you knew in advance that he was a cynical machine politician. Not the Citizen's Advice Bureau.

Great response as ever to the previous points about your own bizarre fixation. Not.

As for Delaney, yeah he was an eejit about obvious cheating, as was Bl*tter too. A worse case than LW's as theirs was more of an 'administrative error'.
However, the affect of the IFA's inertia is potentially much more damaging to them long-term as a credible organisation. And rightly so.

[Gather round]

Would they actually? I thought one of the reasons the IFA took Kearns, the FAI and FIFA to CAS was to appease their faithful; to "look to be doing something on the issue".

They would. The list of administrative and other ****-ups is long and largely unrelated to the eligibility issue. Massive payments to redundant staff, legal action by an outgoing CEO and significant delays in rebuilding WP to give just three recent examples. And I've mentioned them booking into a Spanish hotel where the receptionists didn't speak English? Luckily Gerry Armstrong and I turned up just in time to order Jim Boyce his lunch while collecting our tickets.

Football authorities tend to be unpopular, given that they take us for granted merely as a source of income. But some are even less competent than others.

An attempted populist stunt doesn't really change that, particularly when it was so obviously pointless, not to mention vindictive. They'd have been better off taking Ardee's advice and recognising their own inertia.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except that Spanish story is around 10 years old, give them some credit...
Surely?

And LW's expulsion confirmed fwiw.

[DannyInvincible]

An attempted populist stunt doesn't really change that, particularly when it was so obviously pointless, not to mention vindictive. They'd have been better off taking Ardee's advice and recognising their own inertia.

In hindsight, would most NI fans look back upon the IFA's CAS action with a regretful sense of embarrassment or do they think, "well, fair play; we gave it a go but it didn't work out for us"? Or, worse, is there still an over-riding sense of "but even CAS admitted it was an unfair one-way situation!"? Most would acknowledge that the rules in place were/are being correctly applied, right?

[DannyInvincible]

This seems to have it:

http://transfersblog.com/1980,celtic-vs-legia-case-what-is-it-really-all-about





http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/Regulations/01/94/62/34/1946234_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Page 27.

Cheers. I don't see how those words could be "easily misinterpreted". There's no ambiguity. They're perfectly clear and comprehensible.

What is Mioduski referring to when he mentions "a misunderstanding also on the interpretation on the UEFA side which [Legia] are trying to clarify"? Is he trying to claim that it might actually be UEFA who are misinterpreting the rule, in spite of admitting a clerical mistake and misunderstanding on the Legia side? He can't have it both ways.

[Gather round]

In hindsight, would most NI fans look back upon the IFA's CAS action with a regretful sense of embarrassment or do they think, "well, fair play; we gave it a go but it didn't work out for us"? Or, worse, is there still an over-riding sense of "but even CAS admitted it was an unfair one-way situation!"? Most would acknowledge that the rules in place were/are being correctly applied, right?

I'm guessing a mixture of embarrassment with the IFA and anger at some individuals (Delaney, James McRodriguez etc.) :shame:

[ArdeeBhoy]

Isn't this, er, an 'eligibility' issue...

[DannyInvincible]

No surprise here, but CAS have rejected the notion of any possible Legia re-instatement: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28839720


A statement issued by Cas on Monday afternoon said: "The President of the CAS Appeals Arbitration Division considered the parties' written submissions and has denied Legia Warszawa's request.

"Accordingly, Celtic FC remains qualified to participate in the UEFA Champion's League 2014/2015 and will play its next match against NK Maribor on 20 August 2014."

On submitting their case to Cas, Legia had stated: "We believe that Cas will investigate the case mainly on the level of rationality and proportionality of the decisions of Uefa disciplinary body and the spirit of the game. We still hope that finally football and fair-play will win."

They expected that, had Cas decided they had a case worthy of further investigation, that it would expect it to be concluded "within the regular period of three months".

It seems a case will go ahead though in the meantime. However, based on the applicable regulations, I just can't see how CAS will have the scope or remit to make considerations or recommendations based upon external notions of "rationality and proportionality" (even if they were to first agree that the punishment is disproportionate).

Edit: Some more here: http://news.stv.tv/west-central/288799-cas-reject-legia-warsaws-bid-for-champions-league-reinstatement/


Celtic’s UEFA Champions League play-off match against Maribor will go ahead on Wednesday after Legia Warsaw’s latest appeal was rejected.

The Polish club had taken their bid to be reinstated in the competition to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, asking for provisional measures to be applied before their case against UEFA was heard in full.

Those measures, including their reinstatement at Celtic’s expense or the postponement of Celtic’s tie, have been rejected by the arbitration body at a hearing in Lausanne on Monday.

A statement from CAS read: "The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) has denied the urgent request for provisional measures filed by the Legia Warszawa SA in the course of its appeal against the UEFA Appeals Body decision of 13 August 2014.

"The UEFA Appeals Body had confirmed the result 3-0 (forfeit) in favour of Celtic FC against Legia in the second leg of the third qualifying round of the UEFA Champions League. The UEFA considered that Legia had fielded an ineligible player (Bartosz Bereszynski) during the match.

"Legia Warszawa filed an appeal to the CAS at 17:30 on 15 August 2014 together with an urgent application for provisional measures requesting that it be provisionally admitted to participate in UEFA Champions League matches until the CAS renders its final arbitral award.

"The appeal is directed against UEFA and Celtic FC which were invited to comment on the Polish club’s request until 13:00 (Swiss time) today.

"The President of the CAS Appeals Arbitration Division considered the parties’ written submissions and has denied Legia Warszawa’s request.

"Accordingly, Celtic FC remains qualified to participate in the UEFA Champions League 2014/2015 and will play its next match against NK Maribor on 20 August 2014.

"The CAS arbitration will now continue and a panel of arbitrators will be constituted to examine this case within the next weeks.

"On the merits, Legia has requested that no sanctions be imposed on either the club or the player Bereszynski and that UEFA be ordered to pay a financial compensation to the Polish club."

Legia could yet apply to a court of law in Switzerland for an injunction against the determination but, given UEFA's stance on such matters being dealt with outside of the game, it is unclear whether the club will pursue that course of action.

Legia were sanctioned by UEFA for fielding a suspended player against Celtic in the qualifying rounds of the competition, allowing Celtic to progress despite a 6-1 aggregate defeat on the pitch.

Their appeal to UEFA to overturn the decision to forfeit the match failed on Thursday and the club followed up on its promise to exhaust every possible appeal by escalating the matter to CAS.

UEFA and Celtic had been invited to file written observations but CAS did not disclose details of the evidence presented.

They're now seeking CAS to order a payment of compensation from UEFA...

[BonnieShels]

Barca ban upheld. No new players for the next two transfer windows: Jan 2015 and July 2015.

http://www.independent.ie/incoming/barcelona-ban-means-they-wont-be-able-to-sign-players-next-year-30523476.html

[old git]

Barca ban upheld. No new players for the next two transfer windows: Jan 2015 and July 2015.

http://www.independent.ie/incoming/barcelona-ban-means-they-wont-be-able-to-sign-players-next-year-30523476.html

bit of a joke .. they get banned appeal it and while under appeal sign 8 players ? and have untill this transfer window closes to sign any other players

[BonnieShels]

It is a joke. But in saying that would you have expected anything else.

"MORE THAN A CLUB"

[ArdeeBhoy]

Not good enough, a pile of pish.

Now Desmond must spend. And get a decent manager.

It might well take a while.

[BonnieShels]

Not good enough, a pile of pish.

Now Desmond must spend. And get a decent manager.

It might well take a while.

Is he that bad? I've seen nothing of Celtic this year.

Admittedly what I've read about Celtic doesn't fill me with confidence for the rest of the season under him.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Desmond is...

[Charlie Darwin]

Deila doesn't seem to have a clue what he's doing, but then again he doesn't really have a great record to start with. You get the feeling if he's given two years in charge, you'll eventually end up with a team packed with Scandinavians on loan chasing third spot.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except if he doesn't win the SPL, there won't be a second year...

The jury is out, more now as he's been perceived as 'Yes' man to the Celtic board, rather than any lack of experience or tactical acumen.
Which seem equally valid criticisms.

[Charlie Darwin]

What are the chances he won't win the league, though? Whatever about Saturday's result, Celtic have the squad depth other sides can't dream of. Dundee United and St Johnstone look good in one-off games but they'll have days where their squad is found wanting, which should be enough to see Celtic through. And even if Rangers get promoted the next year, they'll still be **** once McCoist is in charge.

[ArdeeBhoy]

They should win the SPL, more so on merit hopefully.
Not really a factor re.the Zombies, as more likelihood of them going bust again or even not being promoted...more about Desmond spending some of Celtic's transfer profits and allowing a bit of scope to speculate generally to build for the future, but quite hard when you lose your best players every other season, at most.

[Charlie Darwin]

With spending money though, was it the club who were unearthing players like Wanyama or was it Lennon's people? If the latter, you might end up just spending the money on dross, or getting in crap Norwegians from Cardiff.

[DannyInvincible]

That Legia lot are beyond insufferable at this stage: https://twitter.com/LegiaWarszawa/statuses/504366868678057985


#footballwon (https://twitter.com/hashtag/footballwon?src=hash)

[Charlie Darwin]

I thought it was pretty funny. I think it was meant in a lighter heart than people are taking it.

edit: but really, the better team did win

[ArdeeBhoy]

Not a question of prices, just about getting value for money, which if you keeping buying cheap/taking loans, isn't happening.

And what LW and their fascist fans forgot to say, is their lawyers lost...

[Charlie Darwin]

Well, ignoring my opinion on Legia, I was asking if the club's transfer policy, unearthing players like Wanyama, Forster, Van Dijk, even Kayal and Bitar for the future, is that something the club did or was it Lennon's staff finding these players and turning them into big profit for the club?

[pineapple stu]

Deila doesn't seem to have a clue what he's doing, but then again he doesn't really have a great record to start with.
Bit harsh. Took Stromsgodset from being a newly promoted Norwegian side to being league champions for the first time in 40+ years. Wasn't a fluke either; they'd been runners-up the previous year. Seems exactly the kind of manager a club like Celtic would be justified in taking a risk on.

Some of his comments are downright weird, granted. Talking about the Europa League being their level two years after getting through the group stages is at best something lost in translation; at worst naive and clueless. I think he's had other weird comments too.

[ArdeeBhoy]

That Legia lot are beyond insufferable at this stage: https://twitter.com/LegiaWarszawa/statuses/504366868678057985

Saw a good comeback, maybe on their page?
#tediousfascists

[Closed Account 2]

Maybe if Legia spent more time learning how to fill in simple forms, instead of trying to look cool on twitter they would have being playing last night.

[Charlie Darwin]

Bit harsh. Took Stromsgodset from being a newly promoted Norwegian side to being league champions for the first time in 40+ years. Wasn't a fluke either; they'd been runners-up the previous year. Seems exactly the kind of manager a club like Celtic would be justified in taking a risk on.

Some of his comments are downright weird, granted. Talking about the Europa League being their level two years after getting through the group stages is at best something lost in translation; at worst naive and clueless. I think he's had other weird comments too.
Talking about the Europa League being their level four weeks after claiming they shouldn't have to go through Champions League qualification at all is more bizarre.

[Gather round]

Are they sure to be seeded in whichever of the competitions they make next year?

[Charlie Darwin]

Their club seeding is still pretty high so they'll probably be seeded through the qualifiers of whatever competition they're competing in, but Scotland's low ranking means they'll probably be in from the early qualifiers.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Unless there's a major change in attitude or personnel, it'll be irrelevant anyway.

[Charlie Darwin]

Napoli have just disintegrated in Bilbao. They had been dominated all game but found themselves 2-1 up on aggregate just after half time but three quick goals, coming from three defensive mistakes, have killed them. They play some awful ****e to be fair, Athletic a much better team and more deserving.

[Charlie Darwin]

Penalties about to kick off in Ludogorets-Steau. The Ludogorets keeper was sent off moments before the end and they'd used all subs.

[Charlie Darwin]

He saved one and all! Sudden death now.

[Charlie Darwin]

hahaha he did it again! Ludogorets win!

[BonnieShels]

That is a mental story altogether.

They're gonna have a problem now staging games in the group stages. The national stadium where they are playing their games is not Cat-4.

[Charlie Darwin]

Sure they can move them to Oriel, problem solved.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

The year is 2024.

Arsenal win trophy for first time in 10 years.
Arsenal finish 4th in the Premier League after a heroic upsurge in form late-season at the expense of plucky Tottenham/Villa/Everton.
Arsenal win Champions League Playoff by a hair to qualify for Champions League for 27th consecutive season.
Arsene Wenger "I believe we can win the Champions League. We must believe."
Arsenal qualify for Champions League Knockout Round for the *lost count* consecutive time.
Get spanked by Barca/Madrid/Man Utd/ in Quarter Finals.
Arsene Wenger signs new contract after rejecting Real Madrid job.

Rinse. Repeat.

[DannyInvincible]

hahaha he did it again! Ludogorets win!

He's a former Dinamo player too. Looked chuffed with himself and rightly so: https://vine.co/v/MlIuTlmFOjE

[pineapple stu]

Brief highlights here (http://www.sportal.bg/video.php?video=69309)

Ludogrets scored in the last minute to bring it to extra time in the first place. And the centre back keeper scored the first in the shoot-out and all. Amazing stuff.

[Stuttgart88]

He was so far off his line for the one I saw on thescore.ie, with the extra official only 3 yards away. Ridiculous. Fun though.

[bennocelt]

Hoping for Arsenal, Bayer Lev, and Maribor.:)
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/q85/s720x720/10659368_704384006277446_8976389560451984235_n.jpg ?oh=a37032b641919975d60bac710a357b70&oe=546796E4&__gda__=1416217717_92b5e05050478e6e6e1347ecdf64af8 8

[DeLorean]

Europa draw soon. I see Celtic and Legia are in different seeding pots. Can they meet again? That would be fantastic, Legia getting their rematch after all.

[DeLorean]

Not gonna happen. Dinamo Zagreb and Salzburg in with Celtic. Boring draw... was thinking they might get Everton, if not Legia, which would have been interesting.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Really?

Plus UEFA hinted themselves this wouldn't happen plus LW are looking at some sort of punishment from them after their fans' antics last night...

[DeLorean]

Only saw this now. What was the 'really?' bit aimed at?

Please let this happen....

Uefa consider change to away-goals rule and Champions League seedings (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/04/uefa-champions-league-seedings)

[Closed Account 2]

Legia got an €80,000 fine for their banner. I wonder if the Polish club will drop the matter now.