Champions League 2014/5

[DeLorean]

That Napoli Athletic tie could be a cracker by the way.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Celtic should change the club nickname to The Buoys - jammy sods keep floating back up.

Not really, at least three other times been cheated by UEFA, so karma...

[osarusan]

Devil's advocate.... you lose the first leg 4-0 but win the return leg 5-0. The team you beat breaks the rules in the return leg... are you then knocked out after being awarded a 3-0 scoreline? :p I'm sure they have that angle covered.

Default 3-0 only kicks in if it is more favourable to the wronged team than the original result. So in your example, the result wouldn't have changed.

[DeLorean]

Ah yeah, it would be beyond mental otherwise.

[Eminence Grise]

Not really, at least three other times been cheated by UEFA, so karma...

Three times...? Ah, you need to practice more on that small violin if you want to be a virtuoso!;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Maybe, but you have to take it, when 'it' comes!

[DannyInvincible]

Just was in contact with paddypower - they say result stands and they wont be paying out on anyone who backed celtic

You didn't back Celtic to win 3-0, tricky, did you? What you have on them? 30p? :p

[DannyInvincible]

Not really, at least three other times been cheated by UEFA, so karma...

What happened Celtic previously? Was the 2003 final on the list after Paolo Ferreira's confession?: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/FOOTBALL%3A+We+cheated+Celts+out+UEFA+Cup%3B+EX-PORTO+STAR+OWNS+UP.-a0119692884


PAOLO Ferreira last night confessed that Porto "cheated" to overcome Celtic in the 2003 UEFA Cup final.

But the new Chelsea defender said Martin O'Neill's claim that his old side dived all through the match doesn't worry him.

Chelsea's pounds 13.2m signing even claimed diving is a way of life in Portugal.

[Stuttgart88]

Celtic should have refused the reinstatement. They lost 6-1 and that was even with Legia missing two penalties. Yer man was only on the pitch for the last four minutes.

I know money talks but deep down there is probably more to gain by an act of extreme sportsmanship than accepting a chance of progression on an extreme technicality. I suppose then Maribor would have something to say though.

[osarusan]

I know money talks but deep down there is probably more to gain by an act of extreme sportsmanship than accepting a chance of progression on an extreme technicality. I suppose then Maribor would have something to say though.

I don't think there is more to be gained, honestly.

[DannyInvincible]

It would have been a decent and fraternal footballing gesture had Celtic declined to take Legia's place in the draw, but how else might they have benefited besides looking like good Samaritans? To turn down such a fortunate opportunity would be financial lunacy. Would UEFA have allowed them to decline anyway, even if they had wanted to? As you highlight Stutts, perhaps other clubs would have threatened to bring UEFA to CAS if they saw UEFA to be failing to uphold what are a set of crystal-clear regulations.

The overall punishment was obviously magnified due to the knock-out status of the game - just like Henry's handball against us amassed so much more significance than it otherwise might have had because it happened to take place in a World Cup play-off - but it's still difficult to view it as being in any way proportionate to the crime. It's something that could so easily have been avoided too. Pre-game communication must be exceptionally poor between UEFA and the participating clubs. As stu said above, you'd think there'd be some sort of accessible electronic database in this day and age!

[DannyInvincible]

You'll never guess on which glorious day of the year poor Bartosz Bereszyński was born!:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuhAVc6IgAAxwXW.jpg

[ArdeeBhoy]

Would praise DI's last but one post more, but Fly somehow thinks I'm 'boot-licking', strange.

This time Celtic were the recipients, but lost out more than once to EUFA/UEFA in the past, actually 2003 wasn't on the original list though PF confirmed Porto's antics, no great surprise given their complete **** of a manager.

Still https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuhpnhEIUAAd0Oe.jpghttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuhpnhEIUAAd0Oe.jpg (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuhpnhEIUAAd0Oe.jpg)

[pineapple stu]

I'm right in thinking you haven't actually given a single example of this bias you've been complaining about?

I just hope you're not going back to 1984 against Rapid Wien?

[ArdeeBhoy]

That's what Google's for, if you're so bothered.
;)

[pineapple stu]

So you can't give any examples at all?

That's grand. Just checking.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Similarly you with Google?

Grand so, too.

[Eminence Grise]

Meanwhile, in Conspiracy Theory HQ, somewhere in the east of Ireland...
http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/tin_foil_hut_1-540x358.jpg
:D

[ArdeeBhoy]

No conspiracy needed, this time !!!


https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t34.0-12/10595922_10152358526898049_848841203_n.jpg?oh=b533 441acd4e117f45ff864b90fb25d4&oe=53E889D8&__gda__=1407718764_03a56bc20795797f2fdcdb4537a5af6 9

[DannyInvincible]

I'm right in thinking you haven't actually given a single example of this bias you've been complaining about?

I just hope you're not going back to 1984 against Rapid Wien?

I'd not heard of that one, strangely, but having done a brief bit of reading around it, I think Celtic could rightly have felt hard done-by on that occasion: http://sport.stv.tv/football/125442-celtic-v-rapid-vienna-in-1984-bottle-throwing-and-replays/ and http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2009/oct/01/celtic-rapid-vienna-reunion


The Austrian side resorted to foul play to try to disrupt the match as the referee considered his response. Defender Rudolf Weinhofer fell to the ground claiming he had been hit by a bottle thrown from by Celtic fans.

Replays showed that nothing had hit the player, but Rapid appealed to UEFA, and won a replay. The Parkhead side were fined £17,000 and ordered to play their next home European game behind closed doors.


The basic premise for the match in Manchester was ridiculous; the replay should never have been ordered. It is entirely correct that those around at the time recall Weinhofer's behaviour in a negative light.

Did UEFA order the game be replayed simply on the basis of Weinhofer having supposedly been hit by a missile?

Is this another on the list, AB?: http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/174/uefa-champions-league/2009/08/28/1467818/celtic-players-back-uefa-charge-against-cheat-eduardo


Scottish anger against the Croatian rumbles on, but the Bhoys are pleased UEFA has charged the Gunner.

Arsenal striker Eduardo has become public enemy number one in football circles this week after Spanish referee Manuel Gonzalez awarded him a penalty, which he duly converted, in the Gunners' 3-1 victory over Celtic in Wednesday's Champions League play-off second leg at the Emirates.

Eduardo has been accused of deliberately diving to deceive the officials and earn the spot-kick, and UEFA have taken up the case, which was given impetus by the condemnatory remarks of Scottish FA chief executive Gordon Smith, who called for the Brazil-born Croatian to be banned.

Now the defeated Celtic players have backed UEFA’s decision to open disciplinary proceedings against the Gunners' star's alleged dive, accusing Eduardo of being “a cheat.”

[ArdeeBhoy]

Actually it wasn't and was at that game! And the Porto one. RW a bit before my time, but do remember it... There are at least 3 other instances but not going to go on about it, or give any particular clues!

Will leave it to all our self-righteous detective friends to do further digging...

[DannyInvincible]

'Legia Warsaw ask Celtic for meeting': http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28732601


Legia Warsaw have issued an open letter to Celtic requesting a "meeting" to decide which side should progress to the Champions League play-off round.

The Polish side beat the Scottish champions 6-1 on aggregate in the third qualifying round.

However, Legia were then punished by Uefa for fielding the ineligible Bartosz Bereszynski in the second leg.

Reinstated Celtic were drawn to face Maribor in the play-off but Legia want another chance to reach that stage.

And a Celtic spokesperson said: "This is entirely a matter for Uefa and its processes. Accordingly, we will reserve further comment for the appropriate time."

Legia co-owner Dariusz Mioduski praised the stature of both clubs and described Uefa's punishment as "deeply unjust and contrary to the spirit of fair play".

The statement, posted on the Legia Warsaw website, reads: "Celtic FC is a legend in European football - the club with an incredible tradition, which since 1888 co-creates the story of the most beautiful game in the world.

"At the basis of this legend are not only amazing sporting achievements, but also the determination and commitment to values ​​such as honesty and honour."

And, the statement alludes to Celtic's European Cup win in 1967.

"Celtic FC wrote one of the most beautiful pages in the history of European football, when in 1967 they unexpectedly defeated in the final of the Champions Cup mighty Inter Milan headed by Helenio Herrera.

"Imagine that Jock Stein and Billy McNeill were deprived of the greatest triumph in their athletic career by completing the application form wrong.

It continues: "Do not destroy the beautiful clubhouse heritage that you have left in the care of previous generations, 'The Bhoys'. I challenge you, would you in the spirit of the game and fair play, and on the basis of Art. 34 paragraph 5 of the Uefa Disciplinary Regulations of Legia Warsaw took a common position on the Uefa disciplinary bodies. Meet in Warsaw or in Glasgow and let's settle this matter honourably."

Quite a bit of fawning; will Celtic entertain such an appeal to their alleged better nature?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Apparently they're not 'allowed' to;UEFA diktats and all that.

Tbf, they may well have been rather pestered initially, albeit on the basis of a rather paranoid, irrational, rotund person who resides in the Eng. Midlands.

[DannyInvincible]

If Celtic voluntarily withdrew though, would Legia not be invited to re-take their place, or might Celtic be penalised for withdrawal?

[Charlie Darwin]

If Celtic voluntarily withdrew though, would Legia not be invited to re-take their place, or might Celtic be penalised for withdrawal?
I think they'd be penalised and banned for not fulifiling their fixtures. There's something about it in the same rules document we were looking at a few days ago. If it is the case that Celtic aren't allowed offer to have the result overturned or to have a play-off, then there's nothing stopping them offering as a token gesture.

[DannyInvincible]

Just having a look again; would article 10 relating to "refusal to play" apply: http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/Regulations/01/79/68/69/1796869_DOWNLOAD.pdf


10.01 If a club refuses to play or is responsible for a match not taking place or not being played in full, the Control and Disciplinary Body declares the match forfeited and/or disqualifies the club concerned in combination with the following fines:

a) prior to the first qualifying round €10,000
b) prior to the second qualifying round €10,000
c) prior to the third qualifying round €10,000
d) prior to the play-offs €50,000
e) prior to the group stage €100,000
f) during the group stage €250,000*
g) prior to the round of 16 €350,000
h) prior to the quarter-finals or semi-finals €500,000
i) prior to the final €1,000,000

* minimum per outstanding match

10.02 Exceptionally, the Control and Disciplinary Body can validate the result as it stood at the moment when the match was abandoned if the match result was to the detriment of the club responsible for the match being abandoned.

10.03 If a club is disqualified or for any reason withdraws from the competition before completion of its matches in the group stage, the results of all of its matches are declared null and void, and its points forfeited.

10.04 In all cases, the Control and Disciplinary Body can take further measures if the circumstances so justify.

10.05 A club which refuses to play or is responsible for a match not taking place or not being played in full loses all rights to payments from UEFA.

10.06 Upon receipt of a reasoned and well-documented request from the club or clubs concerned, the UEFA administration may set an amount of compensation due for financial loss.

There's bound to be something in the Disciplinary Regulations as well.

[Charlie Darwin]

Think it'd be article 10, yeah.

[BonnieShels]

On what basis were TNS allowed to offer Liverpool a play-off in 2005/06?

[osarusan]

On what basis were TNS allowed to offer Liverpool a play-off in 2005/06?

That would be article 27.04:



27.04 Well now, that's different, isn't it? Form is temporary, class is permanent and all that.

[DannyInvincible]

On what basis were TNS allowed to offer Liverpool a play-off in 2005/06?

Have I got it right in that TNS first offered to play Liverpool in a two-legged play-off before then being drawn against them anyway after UEFA eventually allowed Liverpool to enter into the first qualifying round?

There's a bit more on the whole affair here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_F.C._2005%E2%80%9306_UEFA_Champions_Leag ue_qualification#UEFA_ruling

It seems UEFA granted Liverpool a once-off dispensation (I don't even think the regulations were amended with retrospective effect for the 2005-06 competition) and then amended the rule-book for future competitions.

[Closed Account 2]

'Legia Warsaw ask Celtic for meeting': http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28732601



Quite a bit of fawning; will Celtic entertain such an appeal to their alleged better nature?

That's one of the most sycophantic things I've ever read... I'm glad Celtic have told them to stuff it. Why isn't Dariusz Mioduski looking for the guy who stuffed up the Legia team sheet? If they had been able to fill in a teamsheet none of this would have happened. Legia broke the rules and this is the standard punishment (3-0 default defeat), if Celtic really don't want to participate then UEFA should give Maribor a bye, otherwise what is Legia's punishment?

[DeLorean]

An open response to Legia Warsaw’s poison pen letter to Celtic (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/desmond-kane/open-response-legia-warsaw-poison-pen-letter-celtic-134213042.html)

[DannyInvincible]

An open response to Legia Warsaw’s poison pen letter to Celtic (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/desmond-kane/open-response-legia-warsaw-poison-pen-letter-celtic-134213042.html)

Ha, pretty sharp. Hard to argue with it really.

[DannyInvincible]

I haven't seen any mention of it elsewhere, but the Daily Mail are reporting that Legia are vowing to take their case to CAS if they have no luck with their UEFA appeal this week (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2722612/Legia-Warsaw-outline-plan-fight-against-Champions-League-elimination-fielding-ineligible-player-against-Celtic.html). I'm not sure what the basis of such action would be. The rules in place are very clear, Legia signed up to them and (whether they seem harsh/unfair or not) UEFA have applied them entirely correctly.

[geysir]

There is that IFA vibe about Legia.

[osarusan]

That open letter from Legia reminds me of Delaney after the Henry handball, asking to be the 33rd team.

This letter has the same whinge to it. People went from feeling sorry for Legia to wishing they'd just shut up about it.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ha, I was going to say after geysir's post, Legia remind me of the FAI.

[Closed Account 2]

I think with Legia it's slightly worse, for several reasons. It was Legia's own fault, Celtic didn't "cheat" their way past them (in the way say Henry cheated by using his hand) it was down to the Polish team's inability to fill in a form. The FAI never pandered to French FA in such a public fashion, there was no letter about the honorable history of the French Federation carping on about Juste Fontaine, Raymond Kopa or Marius Tresor. Legia/Celtic still have another 120 mins to play against a reasonably strong (compared to Legia/Celtic) Maribor team, to an extent you could say that if Henry's handball had been spotted then Ireland would still (probably) have faced a shootout but Ireland's route to a possible WC was far less protracted than Legia's route to the CL group stage.

[ArdeeBhoy]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t34.0-12/10595789_10152367569528049_1530030140_n.jpg?oh=5fc dbe7956ae5a0185724ca627323ba4&oe=53ED017A&__gda__=1408036459_beecc4166d08cc57873b8e32250e9ac 5


A charming bunch altogether...

[ArdeeBhoy]

Also, (Apologies for the source)
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/polish-fa-chief-brands-legia-4042599

[geysir]

That open letter from Legia reminds me of Delaney after the Henry handball, asking to be the 33rd team.

This letter has the same whinge to it. People went from feeling sorry for Legia to wishing they'd just shut up about it.
There's a similarity, however the FAI delegation met Blatter in private, it was Blatter who made an ass of himself and breached confidence by attempting to ridicule the FAI from an open platform by revealing the sorry details of the discussion.

[osarusan]

True, I'd forgotten it was in private.

They'd already made a playoff request at that stage though, talking about honesty and integrity and how they wouldn't be happy to qualify for a world cup like that.

Although, to be fair to Legia and the FAI, their other option was to do nothing, and I suppose they were willing to suffer the laughter and criticism for the one-in-a-million chance that they'd be successful.

[Gather round]

Although, to be fair to Legia and the FAI, their other option was to do nothing, and I suppose they were willing to suffer the laughter and criticism for the one-in-a-million chance that they'd be successful

Don't forget Legia's third option of qualifying for the relatively advanced stages of a UEFA competition as a direct result (direct requirement, even) of being disqualified from another UEFA competition for admin. gormlessness.

Legia don't really deserve much fairness. Protracted dumbness gets deserved ridicule just as it did for the IFA and FAI in past cases.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Erm, we know.

[geysir]

Except that the FAI in their 15 minutes of infamy were just the subject of ridicule aggravated by the buffoonery of Blatter, in contrast to the IFA who were off the scale in protracted dumbness, stubbornness and just outright stupidity, year after year.

[Gather round]

Erm, we know you are obsessed about them, year after year...

[ArdeeBhoy]

Erm, because am a fan, since I was 8. What's your excuse, besides the blatant irrational 'hating' ? Why not stick to the team that died?

If we were really any good, that might be an excuse.
:rolleyes:

[geysir]

Erm, we know you are obsessed about them, year after year...
You keep coming and putting your foot in it:)


Protracted dumbness gets deserved ridicule just as it did for the IFA and FAI in past cases.

FAI, a week, at most.
However, 4 years for the IFA (2006 - July 2010) does leave a considerable imprint and would fit the protracted ridicule label.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf his/their 'comedy' is priceless...

[Gather round]

FAI, a week, at most.
However, 4 years for the IFA (2006 - July 2010) does leave a considerable imprint and would fit the protracted ridicule label

Afternoon chaps. I'm sure most NI fans would agree the IFA were deserving of ridicule both before and after the limits you mention.

You're unusually naive about the FAI case. They asked Blatter for a private meeting AFTER criticising FIFA as both incompetent and dishonest, then put a proposal that was absurd. Unsurprisingly, he turned a situation of minor embarrassment for himself into one of ridicule for Delaney. Yes, someone a bit gentler and less ruthless might have just dismissed the idea in private, but you knew in advance that he was a cynical machine politician. Not the Citizen's Advice Bureau.