Setanta Cup 2014

[Briuk]

Unfortunately I think this will be the last year of this competition.
Specially after yesterday.

[Dodge]

Unfortunately I think this will be the last year of this competition.
Specially after yesterday.

Sponsors have signed for 2 more seasons

[oriel]

I think it was really arrogant of the best two sides in the IL not to compete. I didnt buy their arguments over fixture congestion, not like they are playing mid week and saturday every week, plus it was a trimmed down schedule this season.

Coleraine were decent and took it serious, cant understand how they are so low in their league, Ballinamallard just accepted the invite to join up late, cant blame them plus they were up against the League Champions, but it must be very disappointing for the IL with the efforts from Crusaders and Glentoran.

Another note to think about is, both Derry and Cork would have also been fancied to do well if they were in the competition, so there is a big gulf, and that was not helped as I said by the top 2 IL sides opting out.

[Ezeikial]

I think it was really arrogant of the best two sides in the IL not to compete.

Pragmatic rather then arrogant perhaps.

Modest chances of cup success, dramatically reduced participation money, modest prize money, difficulties getting payments from organisers, small mid week gates, on top of potential fixture congestion - not a lot of reasons left for them to take part, is there?

[oriel]

I disagree, the prize money and profile games would still have been much better for them, compared to their own league, maybe not arrogant but I don't think it was a good move for both Linfield and Cliftonville not to take part.

Travel between games in the IL is nothing compared to LOI, so it's not like they had that to consider, plus they only succeeded in devaluing their own league by not taking part.

[desaintsno.12]

Sponsors have signed for 2 more seasons

seriously ? jesus, suprised to hear that. was this pre or post Linfield pulling out ?

[Dodge]

seriously ? jesus, suprised to hear that. was this pre or post Linfield pulling out ?

Pre

http://www.setanta.com/ie/setanta-sports-cup-confirmed-for-2014/


“I am very happy that Setanta have shown their faith in this unique competition by agreeing to remain as our sponsors for a further three years. The competition has grown in stature since it began in 2005 and clubs north and south are looking forward to the ninth version starting in February,” Setanta Sports Cup Tournament Committee chairman Milo Corcoran stated.

[JC_GUFC]

To be fair to Linfield they could justifiably say that they pulled out due to sectarianism. They basically got called Orange *******s for 90 minutes against Rovers.
Cliftonville's excuse looks a bit lame when they actually played Rovers in a pre-season friendly!

[Dodge]

To be fair to Linfield they could justifiably say that they pulled out due to sectarianism. They basically got called Orange *******s for 90 minutes against Rovers.
Cliftonville's excuse looks a bit lame when they actually played Rovers in a pre-season friendly!

But Linfield didn't claim that at all, and I'm sure they've encountered worse locally too.

They pulled outt because they knew they'd no chance of winning and didn't thing the €4,500 they'd get to enter was enough. No other reason

[Ezeikial]

But Linfield didn't claim that at all, and I'm sure they've encountered worse locally too.

They pulled outt because they knew they'd no chance of winning and didn't thing the €4,500 they'd get to enter was enough. No other reason

There probably are some additional, related reasons - mainly financial. With poor gates receipts and high travel costs there remained no financial benefit if winning the competition was not possible.

Fixture congestion and possible injuries then became the straw that breaks the camels back.

Linfield specifically referenced the finances and fixture congestion issues in their statement at the time of withdrawing


Linfield, inaugural winners in 2005, said reduced prize money and scheduling of matches led to their decision.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25307928

The organising committeee (dominated by the FAI) certainly did not endear themselves to Irish League clubs in general and Cliftonville in particular by their foot dragging over paying participation money in the past

[Charlie Darwin]

To be fair to Linfield they could justifiably say that they pulled out due to sectarianism. They basically got called Orange *******s for 90 minutes against Rovers.
Cliftonville's excuse looks a bit lame when they actually played Rovers in a pre-season friendly!
Linfield gave as good as they got. It's a bit much to claim they were responding to provocation. Rovers supporters call Dundalk orangemen for god's sake. It doesn't stop them from trying to beat us.

[adamd164]

Linfield pulled out cos they're sh*te and aren't used to getting brushed aside. Plus the money guaranteed to teams for entering the competition was slashed.

[redobit]

Met a Cliftonville fan yesterday. Told him I was a bit surprised that they left the SSC, especially when it was handy money. His answer was 'we don't need the money'. Take from that what ya want!

[adamd164]

No ambition!

[dundalkfc10]

Met a Cliftonville fan yesterday. Told him I was a bit surprised that they left the SSC, especially when it was handy money. His answer was 'we don't need the money'. Take from that what ya want!

Well in fairness this season Cliftonville had Celtic at home in the Champions League and the home leg was live on TV. Im sure they made enough money not too need it. Still disappointing they turned it down

[Ezeikial]

Met a Cliftonville fan yesterday. Told him I was a bit surprised that they left the SSC, especially when it was handy money. His answer was 'we don't need the money'. Take from that what ya want!

Sounds like 2 fans talking $hite

[nigel-harps1954]

Both semi final first legs live on Setanta Sports next week.

[Mr_Parker]

I think it was really arrogant of the best two sides in the IL not to compete. I didnt buy their arguments over fixture congestion, not like they are playing mid week and saturday every week, plus it was a trimmed down schedule this season.
The number of fixtures was only one of several issues.


Pragmatic rather then arrogant perhaps.

Modest chances of cup success, dramatically reduced participation money, modest prize money, difficulties getting payments from organisers, small mid week gates, on top of potential fixture congestion - not a lot of reasons left for them to take part, is there?

Yes, all of that.


I disagree, the prize money and profile games would still have been much better for them, compared to their own league, maybe not arrogant but I don't think it was a good move for both Linfield and Cliftonville not to take part.

Travel between games in the IL is nothing compared to LOI, so it's not like they had that to consider, plus they only succeeded in devaluing their own league by not taking part. Prize money and profile? The competition has little or no profile in the North and the money has reduced so dramatically that it hardly compensates the cost of putting on a game and/or the cost of an away fixture.



Cliftonville's excuse looks a bit lame when they actually played Rovers in a pre-season friendly!

We played Rovers at 3pm on a free Satuday. Hardly evidence of a lame excuse.


There probably are some additional, related reasons - mainly financial. With poor gates receipts and high travel costs there remained no financial benefit if winning the competition was not possible.

Fixture congestion and possible injuries then became the straw that breaks the camels back.

Linfield specifically referenced the finances and fixture congestion issues in their statement at the time of withdrawing


http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25307928

The organising committeee (dominated by the FAI) certainly did not endear themselves to Irish League clubs in general and Cliftonville in particular by their foot dragging over paying participation money in the past

Foot dragging? More like a slow crawl backwards!

[PartySaint]

The number of fixtures was only one of several issues.



Yes, all of that.

Prize money and profile? The competition has little or no profile in the North and the money has reduced so dramatically that it hardly compensates the cost of putting on a game and/or the cost of an away fixture.



We played Rovers at 3pm on a free Satuday. Hardly evidence of a lame excuse.



Foot dragging? More like a slow crawl backwards!

As a fan Mr Parker, would you have liked to see Cliftonville take part in the competition?

[Charlie Darwin]

Prize money and profile? The competition has little or no profile in the North and the money has reduced so dramatically that it hardly compensates the cost of putting on a game and/or the cost of an away fixture.
How much could it possibly cost to drive an hour and a half down the M1 on a Monday evening? Ballinamallard's chairman said the costs involved were negligible. If the money wasn't big enough, just say so, but don't be claiming it's some sort of burden for a football team to be playing football matches.

[oriel]

I still don't buy the argument over reduced prize money from Linfield and Cliftonville, it's still revenue. Also taking into account that the total for IL Prem from Danske Bank for their first season was only £80k (stg) this is not for the winners, this was the total prize pot, it's not like the domestic scene is well funded.

As for travel, there is no IL Prem side in Derry, about as far west as you can go, none in Newry as far south, although Warrenpoint are playing matches between their home and Dungannon, so the majority of other travel for games must be within a 50 mile radius.

Excuses excuses.

[Dodge]

I still don't buy the argument over reduced prize money from Linfield and Cliftonville, it's still revenue.

€4,500 isn't that much revenue at all. Look at the crowds the IL teams have gotten this year. They could all be losing money opening up their grounds for the home games. Add in costs of the away game and other costs associated with the Setanta (everything from programmes to squad numbers etc) and it's not just a question of revenue

It's a question of is the revenue enough to justify all the hassle, when the maximum they'll receive is €4,500 (as LOI sides expect to reach final).

Linfield/Cliftonville think no, the rest think yes. I don't agree with them pulling out but at the very least can understand their POV

[ger121]

That's incredible the total prize fund for the IL is £80k and I thought what the FAI was offering was rubbish!

[oriel]

£80K stg was the total figure that Dankse Bank put in 2 years ago to match what Carling had contributed, so unless its gone up significantly in one season, I would agree its a very modest figure.

Linfield get a payment from IFA for the use of Windsor (much to the annoyance of the rest) and a lot of clubs especially the Belfast ones have thriving social clubs that contribute to the football clubs, but the overall the sponsorhip payment does sound very low.

It was a real shame that Linfield and Cliftonville didnt take part, and I wonder will they re-consider this for next season, if they dont the chances of another all LOI semi final would be high, and I cant see Setanta increasing the sponsorship, so the chances are they wont take part.

I take Dodge's point above though.

[adamd164]

It was a real shame that Linfield and Cliftonville didnt take part, and I wonder will they re-consider this for next season, if they dont the chances of another all LOI semi final would be high

I'd say the chances are high regardless TBH. Both of those teams got handsomely thumped last year before the semis.

We had a very average team and beat Cliftonville 6-2 on aggregate.

[Mr_Parker]

As a fan Mr Parker, would you have liked to see Cliftonville take part in the competition?

Yes, but not at risk to our title challenge, which it was.

[Mr_Parker]

How much could it possibly cost to drive an hour and a half down the M1 on a Monday evening? Ballinamallard's chairman said the costs involved were negligible. If the money wasn't big enough, just say so, but don't be claiming it's some sort of burden for a football team to be playing football matches.

Ballinamallard would have a very small wage cost, so it would cost them relatively little to have them play an extra match or two. Also, I'm not sure what their players do for a living, but were they forced to use up holidays to make the away match? Did they do this as a one of gesture? Cliftonville have been playing football since mid July and there are only so many occasions when you can ask favours from employers without have to fork out compensation. The money on offer, 4,500 euro, Would hardly cover the additional wages, bonuses and expenses. Also as has been seen, these games do not attract any significant support which would help offset the costs.

However, our focus was/is on winning our league. The risk on our players was not worth it imo.

[Mr_Parker]

I still don't buy the argument over reduced prize money from Linfield and Cliftonville, it's still revenue. Also taking into account that the total for IL Prem from Danske Bank for their first season was only £80k (stg) this is not for the winners, this was the total prize pot, it's not like the domestic scene is well funded.

As for travel, there is no IL Prem side in Derry, about as far west as you can go, none in Newry as far south, although Warrenpoint are playing matches between their home and Dungannon, so the majority of other travel for games must be within a 50 mile radius.

Excuses excuses.

By "revenue" I take it you mean turnover. 4,500 hardly would cover the wages for at least 2 extra games, plus all the other expenses. As for the 80k you mention, add on how much the European pot is worth for winning the league.

[Mr_Parker]

I'd say the chances are high regardless TBH. Both of those teams got handsomely thumped last year before the semis.

We had a very average team and beat Cliftonville 6-2 on aggregate.

You do realise we played our reserves!

[Charlie Darwin]

Ballinamallard would have a very small wage cost, so it would cost them relatively little to have them play an extra match or two. Also, I'm not sure what their players do for a living, but were they forced to use up holidays to make the away match? Did they do this as a one of gesture? Cliftonville have been playing football since mid July and there are only so many occasions when you can ask favours from employers without have to fork out compensation. The money on offer, 4,500 euro, Would hardly cover the additional wages, bonuses and expenses. Also as has been seen, these games do not attract any significant support which would help offset the costs.

However, our focus was/is on winning our league. The risk on our players was not worth it imo.
I'd imagine their players made the same arrangements as part-time players at League of Ireland clubs made. And are you actually saying that Cliftonville pay their players per game?

[adamd164]

You do realise we played our reserves!

That's why it's best not to bother entering, if you're not gonna take it seriously then no point.

At least Ballinamallard wanted to be in it.

[Dodge]

That's why it's best not to bother entering, if you're not gonna take it seriously then no point.


Most LOI clubs don't take it seriously either t be fair

[Fester]

Anyone got a link to Shams v Dundalk for tonight?

[White Horse]

Clear red card decision bottled by Tuite.

[nigel-harps1954]

http://nutjob.eu/njtvx4.html

[Yossarian]

Clear red card decision bottled by Tuite.

I'm not sure myself. Think he may have over hit the ball a bit. Whatever about that I'm delighted with the start and the goal.

[White Horse]

I'm not sure myself. Think he may have over hit the ball a bit.

Not with Mountney's pace.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm not sure myself. Think he may have over hit the ball a bit. Whatever about that I'm delighted with the start and the goal.
I doubt the ref put that much thought into it. I think he just didn't want to send a player off after a minute.

[Yossarian]

I doubt the ref put that much thought into it. I think he just didn't want to send a player off after a minute.

Well I don't know about that. Usually the LoI refs only concern is how quick can I get the red card out of my back pocket.

[Charlie Darwin]

Good grief, how many penalties are we going to give away? Great effort by Hyland to almost get there.

[Fester]

2 Nil to Dundalk and they look in the driving seat.

[geysir]

I suppose the goalie (Hyland?) is getting better at these one on ones, with practice.

[Charlie Darwin]

2-1, super goal by Zayed. Dundalk are sitting so deep.

[nigel-harps1954]

Where's Stephen McPhail gone for Rovers? Hasn't been involved in a few games now.

[geysir]

Dundalk will wrap this up at Oriel, the gulf in class is an unsurmountable obstacle for the hoops to overcome.
The Dundalk accountant is already spending the setanta cheque for reaching the final.

[geysir]

Where's Stephen McPhail gone for Rovers? Hasn't been involved in a few games now.
A bout of tendonitis, related to his auto immune affliction.

[White Horse]

Really should have wrapped up the tie by scoring another couple of goals. Dundalk were totally dominant.

[Charlie Darwin]

A bout of tendonitis, related to his auto immune affliction.
Damn you. It was a decent second half from Rovers but Boccer is just not a player and without Kilduff nothing really sticks up front. Croly will, I expect, play more or less the same team in Oriel so I'd expect Dundalk to wrap it up fairly easily, especially with the same fixture again three days later.

[Charlie Darwin]

Really should have wrapped up the tie by scoring another couple of goals. Dundalk were totally dominant.
Dunno about dominant, you barely touched the ball in the second half, but you tore us apart on the counter attack and really should have scored another couple.

[PartySaint]

Really should have wrapped up the tie by scoring another couple of goals. Dundalk were totally dominant.

That Hoban sitter might yet come back to haunt you.

Dundalk were very impressive at times tonight tho especially considering they only played 2 days ago.

Towell is superb, an absolute joy to watch.

I expect another close game in the Showgrounds tomorrow night.