Kazakhstan V Republic of Ireland - Friday, 7th September 2012 - World Cup 2014 Q

[ifk101]

When Irish players receive a pass, the head is firmly fixed on the pitch. He doesn't know where his teammate is, who to pass it to, or even how far away from goal he is. Head-down, tunnel vision.

Does this apply to the player that makes the pass?

[SkStu]

When Irish players receive a pass, the head is firmly fixed on the pitch. He doesn't know where his teammate is, who to pass it to, or even how far away from goal he is. Head-down, tunnel vision.

When foreigners receive a pass, they're aware of what's going on around them, they know where their teammate is, and they know when and where the pass has to be made. It's called technical ability. Their players have it as it's drilled into them for years.

So every foreigner is better than any Irish player? Which begs the question why our boys in green, worse than all other foreigners apparently, would even be playing alongside British, Spanish, French, etc etc etc foreigners every weekend in the top two flights of the foreign league next door to us. Why are foreign leagues littered with irishmen instead of Kazakhs? Yes, good man yourself. You can't argue with stupid, they say, but I'll give it a shot...

If this is just the only way we are capable of playing football then what is Trap instructing us to do? Is he telling us to play hoofball or are the players just incapable of following his instructions to play free, open, expressive ball? I'm sorry but you are still blinded by Traps bullsh!t that we don't have players good enough to play football. They are following his instructions to play this way. Once Trap proclaims that his talent pool is garbage, brings in Paul Green instead of Darren Gibson or Wes Hoolahan, and instructs the team to punt the thing away it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy built on a myth that everyone initially buys into due to his apparent omniscience. It's a farcical approach to setting up a team and, quite frankly, i think you're talking crap.

[pineapple stu]

We should be at the level Scotland are.
Yup. Drawing 0-0 against Serbia would be progress alright.

[Stuttgart88]

I think saying that we're getting the results is a valid argument to some extent.

In investment management there's a concept of "risk adjusted return". A manager might be able to deliver 10% returns on your money wheraes another might only be returning 5%. But the guy who returns 5% might be taking less risk, might be able to deliver 5% with much more regularity and might be able to avoid a big loss if things go awry, ie the downside is limited versus the 10% guy's strategy.

In a way this analogy holds in our case: I think the signs are that despite the fact that we are on a run of away results that are probably as good as we have ever had that we are getting these results with an increasing amount of risk. The way we are playing indicates to me that we are liable to a couple of very bad results at some stage, not from a Spain / Italy / Germany but from in form tier 2 or tier 3 sides. We might even have another Lichtenstein on our hands in the Faores. Also, there just appears to be no way we can hope (hope not expect) for a home win over Germany as we would have done over the years against our top seed. We just can't play against good teams by squandering possession all night long, and curtailing the use of those players who can actually cause a threat.

[elroy]

Worth a mention that 6th seeded Iceland, hammered first seeds Norway :)
That kinda assumes we're a big team going to a minnow, that scenario no longer applies. There is not the least glimmer that Trap will draw back from this compulsive hoofing obsession.
At this stage our level is no better than 4th place in the group and that's where we are heading for sure. We have the potential to be better than the so called minnows but we are struggle to even achieve that position. It's only a matter of time before we will be embarrassed by a minnow, next up are the Faroes, who (like Kazakhstan) will fancy their chances.

Not sure, I think we will manage third. We have the potential to achieve second but Sweden are infuriating consistent in qualifying and should be favourites to beat us there.

Under Trap so far, we have managed to sweep aside the tricky minnows, some would say with a degree of luck but nonetheless we have not dropped points against the lower seeds. Cyprus, Armenia, Macedonia, Georgia.

Montenegro were the only lower seeds that we have not claimed full points against under Trap. And in fairness Montenegro were a damn good team for their seeding, plus the home leg was a dead rubber.

One of the major problems with this team may be summed up by the fact that next game Germany at home, I see a point as a superb bonus. The Faroes match is the big one. And that is sad, we should be confident of giving anyone a game at our own patch. But after the likes of Slovakia and Russia at home in the last campaign and the performances in the Euros and current form/style of the team, I cant see anything but a German win.

Funnily enough its not the personell thats the problem, on paper we have a reasonable team. Its the style we play which I fear Germany (and maybe others) will greatly expose. If you saw how Russia destroyed us in two games, why would you play any different against us.

[pineapple stu]

If you saw how Russia destroyed us in two games, why would you play any different against us.
I think this will increasingly be a problem. Lots of international managers will have seen how Russia - and Spain and Croatia and probably Italy (I didn't see that game) - played against us. Even the Kazakh and Austrian and Faroese manager (who'll likely have Brian Kerr whispering in his ear) will have seen it. I'd say increasingly teams will see how to play against us, and will do so. After all, why wouldn't you change tactics to suit the team you're playing against...?

[shakermaker1982]

It appears that despite the poor performances, few if any of the players are getting stick. It's all Trap, Trap, Trap. That's a cover for the real issues, which would be shown clearly with a different man in charge. We should be at the level Scotland are. The difference is our coach has seen it all and won it all. Theirs coached Raith Rovers and Leicester City.

Who keeps picking O'Shea, Whelan, Green, Ward and co despite abject performances?

Who plays strikers on the wing insead of a recognised winger?

Of course the manager is getting the stick. It's surely common sense in playing players in their proper positions and picking players on form.

[paul_oshea]

Ive not read all the posts, but i noticed on here, ive said it before and offline again to a few of the main posters on here, but Mccarthy was actually very good in the second half. If you didnt realise this or see this, then you really dont understand the difference between being at a game and not being at a game. ON 2 seperate occassions in the second half, he gave out to o'dea and someone else, for hoofing the ball forward. He kept calling at them and asking for the ball, kept turning into space as well when he received the ball. So refreshing to see that when compared with Whelan running away from the full backs and wingers when they need support or an out ball, or when he receives it and is automatically turned to our own goal.

I thought doyle played well when he came on, the kazakhs didnt like direct running or being taken on, yet we insisted on hoofing the ball forward. Walters did his best but wasn't great, and mcgeady was way off form. They would have hated to come up against duff. It was good to see mcgeady getting frustrated with his own crossing as well. Good to see he recognises how crap it was.

[Stuttgart88]

On a hard, bouncy, artifical pitch the dumbest thing to do is to play high balls. The abll takes longer to get under control and plays right into the opposition's hands in my opinion.

[Stuttgart88]

Why can't he [Dunne] pass the ball ten yards then?Of course he can. He was most vocal in criticism of the long ball game after Russia at home. I think there are other reasons for the hoofball. Andrews wrote on saturday that they're not told to do it so to me it would indicate that nobody ahead of Dunne in midfield is demanding the ball.

[pineapple stu]

On a hard, bouncy, artifical pitch the dumbest thing to do is to play high balls. The abll takes longer to get under control and plays right into the opposition's hands in my opinion.

Funny; on commentary, Whelan and Hamilton said exactly the opposite. Literally from kick off, I think they said that long balls was the way to go on this pitch - keep it off the surface.

[Stuttgart88]

Eoin Hand was saying it was exactly the wrong thing to be doing!

If the ball rolls true but bounces high, I'd agree with Hand.

[ifk101]

Of course they are told to kick it long. The first thing we did in the game was tip off, and pass it back to Ward to send it long. That was our gameplan.

[Charlie Darwin]

Of course he can. He was most vocal in criticism of the long ball game after Russia at home. I think there are other reasons for the hoofball. Andrews wrote on saturday that they're not told to do it so to me it would indicate that nobody ahead of Dunne in midfield is demanding the ball.
Well if he was such a leader he would lead by example and pass the ball. He doesn't.

[ifk101]

So refreshing to see that when compared with Whelan running away from the full backs and wingers when they need support or an out ball .....

That's what he is instructed to do. That's why he's an automatic starter for Trapattoni. He does what he is told, no questions asked. McCarthy is still learning the Trapattoni way.

[Noelys Guitar]

Of course he can. He was most vocal in criticism of the long ball game after Russia at home. I think there are other reasons for the hoofball. Andrews wrote on saturday that they're not told to do it so to me it would indicate that nobody ahead of Dunne in midfield is demanding the ball.

I don't know why Andrews is saying that when Trapatonni admitted yesterday that he sends the team out to conserve energy by playing the long ball and hoping an Irish player gets on the second ball. "We had to save energy," he said. "So the long ball, and second ball, and then we play. We're not Manchester United -- tip, tip, tip, tip. We needed our strength

[ifk101]

I don't know why Andrews is saying that ..

It's quite simple. You don't criticise or give any hint of criticism if you want to play.

[paul_oshea]

Well if thats the case then we wont see mccarthy again or he will be moulded into a Trap player.

Seriously, another player like him in midfield and we wouldn't have half the problems.

[geysir]

The most remarkable thing about the game was not that we scored 2 late goals but that we survived a blatant reckless Hamilton jinx, a surefire jinx saying we had the 3 points in the bag with 5 minutes left to play, that would have finished us off in the past.

[tetsujin1979]

and the white away jersey jinx

[paul_oshea]

its funny how trap set out the stall at the start of his tenure to defend set pieces well and to stop conceding sloppy goals through lapses of comcentration. And we did so for about 2 years but now its gone full circle.does this in itself "when trap is lying awake at night" not ring any alarm bells?

to be honest they never looked like doing anything in the second half. but we always looked like we could make a stupid mistake.

id agree with stutts.the ball.was bouncing awful high and impossible to get onto or control when hoofed up.im sure walters would blame it as a major factor in him having a poor game

[tricky_colour]

The are to part to a pass, one is the kicking of the ball and the other is movement of players to receive a pass.

You can the best passer in the world but you will never complete a pass if players do not make themselves available.

IMO the movement is more important than the passing of the ball, it's more hard work than finesse in a way.

[OwlsFan]

People will make the point that the FAI cannot afford to sack Trap. That is fairly true, but more what they cannot afford is an empty Aviva. Judging by this, even the Germany game will struggle to sell out, and if it does it's only because people will want to see a fantastic away team in action. Who in their right mind would pay 35/50 Euro to watch that scutter. I have slated stay away fans in the past but now I can't see why anyone would pay their hard earned money to watch that.

I would because I support my team whether they play "scutter" or Brazil/Spain like football.

[elroy]

@MeathDrog For god sake, watching Ireland has never been for entertainment purposes. Everyone has their passions and for me following Ireland is mine. Sometimes (e.g. 80 mins on Friday) I do question myself and particularly its effect on my health, but you cant change it. Nothing beats Ireland success for me, while at the same time, the lowest sporting low is an Ireland defeat.
That doesnt mean you should applaud all the day long, of course not, but support the team I will. Many of the older lads will tell you of the days when finishing third in a group was success - we are somewhat spoiled in the last 25 years by comparison. If I had the Euros, id go to every away match, great supporters, with a real passion for the team. Unfortunately you dont always get the same level of support for attendees at home matches (that can almost be applied to every sport mind you).

[Charlie Darwin]

I would because I support my team whether they play "scutter" or Brazil/Spain like football.
Several times I have asked people on here to point out when Ireland were a consistently entertaining team to watch and I've yet to get a satisfactory reply.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Under Hand, at the beginning. And under Mick, again at the start. Albeit, not every single game! More than now.

OK it wasn't Brazil, but it was better than the current regime...

[Wolfie]

Several times I have asked people on here to point out when Ireland were a consistently entertaining team to watch and I've yet to get a satisfactory reply.

Its a Forum Charlie, we're not on Mailbag.

[Spudulika]

The stick of "entertaining football" is bojjox. It's used to beat teams that prove the talking heads wrong and mess up their accumulators. If "entertaining football" is the caveat for people to kick down the gates and sell out grounds, then certain LOI clubs would be laughing all the way to the bank. "Fans" will be told who and what to follow, supporters will support no matter what. I enjoyed the style of football Jack Charlton employed as it was attacking, risky and aggressive, plus it suited the general mentality (GAA - lump the ball up to the big man on the square and the corner forwards nip in for breaks; Rugby - Garryowen and chase down the fullback). Only Spain can play like Spain (and it's cat), it's the usual anomaly of "the Roy Keane's of this world" - name them! Or do they mean the header who used to play for Ireland? Ireland play like Ireland, that's it. When Trap does go it'll be a matter of time before the next incumbent gets it in the neck, and Dunphy's seat will be kept warm by a less rounded and knowledgeable backside.

[Spudulika]

Under Hand, at the beginning. And under Mick, again at the start. Albeit, not every single game! More than now.

OK it wasn't Brazil, but it was better than the current regime...

Has anyone else noticed this creep in since the Euros - Trap now is part of a regime! Of course it's the ultimate use of language to discredit and turn off the average punter, and if he's not careful he'll suffer a drone strike pretty soon (rather than the droning strike which has been ongoing since the Euros).

[Stuttgart88]

Yep, we all know what happened when there was a mass move towards regime change. I thought it was just about a football manager.

[geysir]

I'd be content if we could play football, I'm entertained by things like good goalkeeping, tackling, defending, heading, passing, positioning, work rate, teamwork, defensive/midfield/forward play, tactics, formations, goal chances, goals scored. In other words, play a game of football that might have us in a play off position, rather than looking at the danger from below, to holding onto an inevitable 4th position.

[Kingdom]

I have my worries about this one. I reckon we're one bad result away from the whole setup unravelling too.

Tomorrow nights lotto numbers are 1,4,5,6,10,18 and the bonus ball is 45.

[DeLorean]

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