Licences 2011

[osarusan]

Until you provide a single link for what you're talking about, I'm out of this discussion, thanks.
I'm sure Bohs fans will be heartbroken.

[pineapple stu]

Probably adding to my thread on their forum as we speak. :D

[marinobohs]

Probably adding to my thread on their forum as we speak. :D

Speaking personally I have not contributed to the P Stu "love in" on our forum now or previously. The fact that there is one indicates a fair reflection of your views on Bohs past and present and your apparent intent to limit any Bohs fan participating on this forum.

Anyway, I have posted examples outlining my point, whether you choose to believe them or not is pretty irrelevant.

[SkStu]

Speaking personally I have not contributed to the P Stu "love in" on our forum now or previously. The fact that there is one indicates a fair reflection of your views on Bohs past and present and your apparent intent to limit any Bohs fan participating on this forum..

thats a nice way of putting it MB. There are better descriptions of what it indicates on the thread in question. :)

[WeAreRovers]

So this is what made you break your self imposed exile, eh?

Welcome back ;)

Posted a few times in recent weeks, my motivation was to out that spoofer spudulika AKA weecountyman. Refuting that other guff merchant marinobohs was just too good an opportunity to resist.

KOH

[marinobohs]

Posted a few times in recent weeks, my motivation was to out that spoofer spudulika AKA weecountyman. Refuting that other guff merchant marinobohs was just too good an opportunity to resist.

KOH

Refuting me by posting an article proving my points ? Why thank you. You should stick to your laughable boycott as posting shows you up for what you are.

[Rasputin]

Can some Shams fans who have access to the "inside sources" please enlighten me as to how we have gained a Premier License when we were allegedly under financial investigation?
Also can those who have access to the "inside sources" enlighten us all to when this alleged investigation will be published?

[gufcfan]

The problem is Guitd that those are the rules. I agree it seems harsh but your club knew that they needed to have those sorted before yesterday.
We had our affairs in order last week, but the FAI and the revenue didn't, causing the delay.

[gufcfan]

I find it funny how Galway are looking to blame the fai for their demise when it's all their own fault.
See above.

[JC_GUFC]

A few hypothetical questions:

1) If Galway United fail in their appeal and are only granted an A-Championship Licence what will the situation be with regards to the 2 Divisions? As it would stand there would be 10 teams in the Premier and 10 teams in the 1st? Would they not leave it like that rather than having a 12-team Premier and an 8-team 1st Division?

2) Had Waterford United got a Premier Division licence would they or Monaghan have been ranked higher in terms of getting a Premier Division place? Waterford finished higher in the league but obviously Monaghan beat them in the playoff

[gufcfan]

I thought Galway would win the appeal until i read their statement. Basically said, "look its nearly ready"
The statement was badly written imo. As is set down in the licensing, football creditors need to be paid or an agreement made with them. What the club were in the process of "settling" was a payment, part of an agreement made last week, with a former staff member. There were no outstanding issues with monies owed to footballing creditors at the deadline.

[Dodge]

1) If Galway United fail in their appeal and are only granted an A-Championship Licence what will the situation be with regards to the 2 Divisions? As it would stand there would be 10 teams in the Premier and 10 teams in the 1st? Would they not leave it like that rather than having a 12-team Premier and an 8-team 1st Division?

There was only ever going to be 10 teams in premier this year so the 12/8 split wouldn't happen. if galway get a Prem/1st license then the split will be 10/11



2) Had Waterford United got a Premier Division licence would they or Monaghan have been ranked higher in terms of getting a Premier Division place? Waterford finished higher in the league but obviously Monaghan beat them in the playoff
I think I remember reading from previous seedings that play off losers take precedence over league position but I'd imagine the FAI were happy enough to not have to explain taht one again

[monsexile]

The statement was badly written imo. As is set down in the licensing, football creditors need to be paid or an agreement made with them. What the club were in the process of "settling" was a payment, part of an agreement made last week, with a former staff member. There were no outstanding issues with monies owed to footballing creditors at the deadline.
I struggle therefore to see how things can change on appeal:
From FAI licencing criteria:

"The licence applicant must prove that, in respect of contractual and legal obligations with its employees, it has no payables overdue towards employees or revenue/social/tax authorities as at 30 November of the year preceding the season to be licensed, unless by the following 21 Decemberthey have been fully settled, deferred by mutual agreement with the creditor or are subject to a not obviously unfounded dispute submitted to a competent authority."
Have they a flux capacitor as part of their appeal?

Equally:

The Licence Applicant must provide the licensor with a copy of its Tax Clearance Certificate valid on the Extended deadline for League of Ireland clubs to submit financial documentation
That deadline was 28 January.

[oriel]

Somethign similar happened to Portadown when the IFA set up their premiership a few sesons back, they were a few hours late I think with making a payment or showing evidence, and they were relegated to the lower division, I thik their appeal failed.

I think what happened to Galway is a very harsh, considering what Bohs went through, but they did miss this deadline, and thats going to be a big problem for them.

[gufcfan]

That deadline was 28 January.
I agree completely that deadlines are deadlines, but considering the reason for the late submission was probably the FAI themselves coupled with the revenue, you can probably see our point.

[Dodge]

I agree completely that deadlines are deadlines, but considering the reason for the late submission was probably the FAI themselves coupled with the revenue, you can probably see our point.

thats a couple of probablies there. And seeing as you were the only club late, its not really an excuse IMO.

[gufcfan]

thats a couple of probablies there. And seeing as you were the only club late, its not really an excuse IMO.
I'm not the person who has the actual evidence to back up what I've said, so I'll try not to make statements I don't know are 100% or near enough.

[Dodge]

Thats all fair enough. Point remains though that getting the stuff from the FAI/revenue was something all clubs had to factor in

And Galway missed the deadline.

I've said before that I want Galway to be in premier but they've no one to blame but themselves if they're in the A league

[WoodquayBoy]

Had Waterford United got a Premier Division licence would they or Monaghan have been ranked higher in terms of getting a Premier Division place? Waterford finished higher in the league but obviously Monaghan beat them in the playoff


I think I remember reading from previous seedings that play off losers take precedence over league position but I'd imagine the FAI were happy enough to not have to explain taht one again
Yes, that is the case, play-off results supersedes league placings in that case so Monaghan were always in line to replace Galway United, even if Waterford had been awarded Premier Licence

[gufcfan]

Thats all fair enough. Point remains though that getting the stuff from the FAI/revenue was something all clubs had to factor in

And Galway missed the deadline.

I've said before that I want Galway to be in premier but they've no one to blame but themselves if they're in the A league
Maybe it hasn't been laid out clearly enough, but the reason for the delay in getting stuff from the revenue seems to have been the fault of the FAI. They stepped in and acted as agents in the transfer of money in the Seamus Conneely transfer, because Nick Leeson couldn't be trusted. A portion of that money was to be paid to the revenue, but the FAI held onto it for over a month allegedly.

The people attending the appeal hearing are said to be extremely confident. I'm afraid to hope for much after the rollercoaster that was the last 6 months, but I don't think their confidence is just talk either.

My view is that this is not "new evidence", as it all happened before the deadline. Would people agree?

[Longfordian]

It's new if it wasn't submitted with the original application regardless of whether you had it at the time or not. It's basically going to come down to whether the FAI are going to accept responsibility or not and let's face it, they don't do that too easily.

[Doomofman]

I disagree... You need a tax cert to get a license, you didn't have one before the deadline.. End of IMO

[peadar1987]

It's quite simple. The FAI wanted to make an example of somebody, everybody had something small and niggling that could technically deny them a place, so they picked the club least likely to burn down their offices and relegated them.

[monsexile]

I disagree... You need a tax cert to get a license, you didn't have one before the deadline.. End of IMO
I'd be inclined to think this is the most logical outcome having read the criteria in detail.That's not saying the FAI - in fact the Appeals Body which is supposed to be independent like the Licensing Comittee itself (on a separate point: does anyone know who is on these bodies or how they get appointed?) - won't ignore their own rules and grant Galway a reprieve. I hope for GUFC's sake that they do but naturally from a blinkered Monaghan point of view I hope it is only a First Division licence, which would of course be a fudge.

[gufcfan]

I know I could be very biased, as much as I'm trying to look at it objectively, but if the FAI are responsible for the delay... I fail to see how they can deny us a licence.

[Longfordian]

They'll probably say you could have got the money from somewhere else, to be repaid when the FAI released their money. As I said they're not very good at admitting to making mistakes.

[harps1954]

I know I could be very biased, as much as I'm trying to look at it objectively, but if the FAI are responsible for the delay... I fail to see how they can deny us a licence.

It's was Galway's responsibility to make sure they had a Tax Clearance Certificate. If the FAI owed either Galway/Revenue the money that's between Galway/Revenue and the FAI. Galway didn't have a tax clerance certificate for the simple reason they owed the Revenue an amount of money (regardless of how big/small that was). It was up to Galway to ensure that money was paid to the Revenue - not the reponsibility of the FAI or an 'Agent.'

I feel for Galway supporters, I really do. But rules are rules. Deadlines are deadlines. Just ask Portadown.

[monsexile]

They stepped in and acted as agents in the transfer of money in the Seamus Conneely transfer, because Nick Leeson couldn't be trusted.
Whatever about the FAI, surely this is GUFC's fault. He was at that time and the time of the extended deadline Galway's CEO.

[gufcfan]

He was at that time and the time of the extended deadline Galway's CEO.
He wasn't.

[Jofspring]

I would think if the FAI delayed it by holding onto money then Galway should have said to the FAI that they needed the money and if they didn't get it they wouldn't have had a tax clearance cert in time. The FAI should then have released the money to Galway. If this in fact happened (Galway requesting the money for the revenue) and the FAI didn't release the money then they need to take some responsibilty, otherwise it is Galways fault.

[gufcfan]

I would think if the FAI delayed it by holding onto money then Galway should have said to the FAI that they needed the money and if they didn't get it they wouldn't have had a tax clearance cert in time. The FAI should then have released the money to Galway. If this in fact happened (Galway requesting the money for the revenue) and the FAI didn't release the money then they need to take some responsibilty, otherwise it is Galways fault.
GUST were in almost hourly contact with the FAI and the revenue at times last week. Everyone was in the know about what was required well in advance of last week, never mind deadline day.

Anyone who has had dealings with the revenue knows that they will not do anything for you on the spot, nor am I suggesting this should be the case. A combination of the FAI not releasing the money in a timely fashion and the person who was to give the ultimate go ahead in the revenue being on leave was the cause of the problem.

There are/were a lot of problems at Galway United, but we didn't do this.

[Dodge]

GUST were in almost hourly contact with the FAI and the revenue at times last week
maybe if you stopped bleeding hassling they would've been able to produce the docs for you ;)

[gufcfan]

maybe if you stopped bleeding hassling they would've been able to produce the docs for you ;)
Not while the man with the power was on leave they couldn't.

[Doomofman]

The other question you gotta ask is, why was all this being left so late?

[John83]

GUST were in almost hourly contact with the FAI and the revenue at times last week. Everyone was in the know about what was required well in advance of last week, never mind deadline day.

Anyone who has had dealings with the revenue knows that they will not do anything for you on the spot, nor am I suggesting this should be the case. A combination of the FAI not releasing the money in a timely fashion and the person who was to give the ultimate go ahead in the revenue being on leave was the cause of the problem.

There are/were a lot of problems at Galway United, but we didn't do this.
"Hello, this is GUST."
"You feckers again?"
"Is he back yet?"
"No, he did not get back from Malasia in the last forty-five minutes. Feck off, ye little pests."

[gufcfan]

The other question you gotta ask is, why was all this being left so late?
An agreement could not be reached with the revenue while the money from the transfer of Seamus Conneely was in the hands of the FAI for over a month.

[harps1954]

An agreement could not be reached with the revenue while the money from the transfer of Seamus Conneely was in the hands of the FAI for over a month.

Why did the FAI not release the money?
Had Galway United monies outstanding to the FAI that prevented them from doing this? This is not unheard of, where the FAI withhold part/all of prize money because clubs owe them money for fines, fees, international tickets etc.?
If the FAI had the money for over a month, and Galway United knew this, why did they not demand this was released? A simple letter from a solicitor would have achieved this.

As was pointed out, the FAI were withholding money due to Galway United for one reason or another.

As I said in an earlier post, whatever about these monies it was the responsibility of Galway United and ONLY Galway United, to ensure they got a Tax Clearance Certificate from the Revenue Commissioners.

The other point, which seems to have disappeared since Monday, was the money due to a former player who wasn't prepared to accept that all was cleared with him until such time as a cheque issued by Galway (as late as last Thursday) was cleared by the bank. The player was therefore admitting that he was still due money from Galway United. Again, technically no agreement (between both parties) had been reached with this player prior to the deadline.

Galway seem to be blaming everyone from the FAI to one employee in the Revenue Commissioners for this. The fact is, if they had been paying their taxes all along, they wouldn't have had the problem with the Revenue commissioners so late in the day. There is no point in blaming the FAI, the previous Galway board, an employee of the Revenue Commissioners who was on holidays just because GUST have now taken on the day-to-day running of the club. Galway United IS Galway United regardless of who was in charge at the time of the deadline(s) or indeed now.

Earlier in the week, there was laods of sympathy out there for Galway United. But this constant blaming of everyone other than the club itself is starting to see that sympathy disappear.

Galway United - the club - failed to have vital documents with the FAI on the deadline. Up until a day or two ago, they still hadn't got a Tax Clearance Certificate for fecks sake - this was after all deadlines had passed and the Licenses had been issued.

If, and it's a BIG IF at this stage, Galway win their appeal tomorrow, it's another fudge from the FAI for failing to adhere to their own rules.

[Terry-Lander]

The board of Galway United FC ltd (prior to handing over the daily running of the company to GUST) were responsible for the professional running of the club. Part of that involved an application for a licence. The job, ultimately, was the responsibility of a certain Mr. Leeson who had been the CEO. He failed in this duty, one of many failings, many would argue. The board as his employers failed to remove him from his post and instead agreed to his becoming a major shareholder. The failure to get a licence lies with the board of United alone.

The problem for most fans is that the members of GUST have been working tirelessly to pay bills, clear debts and work behind the scenes to get a licence for the club they love. Fans are gutted at the prospect of losing that club especially now because after 34 years there is a real hope that the club could become a community club run by the fans. I don't really care who is to blame for not getting a licence but I care deeply that we do get one. I believe that GUST would run the club with honour, professionalism, passion and dignity. I just want a chance to show that we can.

[gufct]

Why did the FAI not release the money?
Had Galway United monies outstanding to the FAI that prevented them from doing this? This is not unheard of, where the FAI withhold part/all of prize money because clubs owe them money for fines, fees, international tickets etc.?
If the FAI had the money for over a month, and Galway United knew this, why did they not demand this was released? A simple letter from a solicitor would have achieved this.

As was pointed out, the FAI were withholding money due to Galway United for one reason or another.

As I said in an earlier post, whatever about these monies it was the responsibility of Galway United and ONLY Galway United, to ensure they got a Tax Clearance Certificate from the Revenue Commissioners.
The other point, which seems to have disappeared since Monday, was the money due to a former player who wasn't prepared to accept that all was cleared with him until such time as a cheque issued by Galway (as late as last Thursday) was cleared by the bank. The player was therefore admitting that he was still due money from Galway United. Again, technically no agreement (between both parties) had been reached with this player prior to the deadline.

Galway seem to be blaming everyone from the FAI to one employee in the Revenue Commissioners for this. The fact is, if they had been paying their taxes all along, they wouldn't have had the problem with the Revenue commissioners so late in the day. There is no point in blaming the FAI, the previous Galway board, an employee of the Revenue Commissioners who was on holidays just because GUST have now taken on the day-to-day running of the club. Galway United IS Galway United regardless of who was in charge at the time of the deadline(s) or indeed now.

Earlier in the week, there was laods of sympathy out there for Galway United. But this constant blaming of everyone other than the club itself is starting to see that sympathy disappear.

Galway United - the club - failed to have vital documents with the FAI on the deadline. Up until a day or two ago, they still hadn't got a Tax Clearance Certificate for fecks sake - this was after all deadlines had passed and the Licenses had been issued.

If, and it's a BIG IF at this stage, Galway win their appeal tomorrow, it's another fudge from the FAI for failing to adhere to their own rules.

There was an Undertaking by GUFC and the FAI to forward the monies from the transfer to the revenue.The money was transfered last tuesday more than a month after it had been forwarded by Sheffield United. That gave us 3 days to get the Tax clearence sorted.We got verbal agreement on Thursday but unfortunately the person who has to sign off these agreements was on leave. The TCC was issued on monday morning and the debt is far smaller than the majority og LOI clubs €11,500.

Limerick have been given a full week to sort out their problems all we are asking for is fairplay.

it wasnt a player that was owed money and the person in question had faxed the FAI confirming the agreement with the club subject to our cheque clearing which it did on Monday.

[Longfordian]

They dont accept conditional agreements and like it or not "subject to the cheque clearing" is a condition. If you'd given him a draft there'd be no problem. We've had to do it in years gone by.

[Mr_Parker]

Somethign similar happened to Portadown when the IFA set up their premiership a few sesons back, they were a few hours late I think with making a payment or showing evidence, and they were relegated to the lower division, I thik their appeal failed.


That was nothing to do with Licencing though. That was their application to join the new league. They were not relegated, they just failed to apply.

[garyderry]

When will all the appeals be finished with and we actually know the makeup of the divisions?
has there been a date set?

[Terry]

gufc appeal is tomorrow morning, i believe we will know the result immediately after. P.S. Good luck to the gust reps tomorrow.

[sheao]

gufc appeal is tomorrow morning, i believe we will know the result immediately after. P.S. Good luck to the gust reps tomorrow.

Best of luck to ye anyway.
I anyway would hate to see the LOI Premier divison without Galway United as the LOI fan .
Hope the FAI have some sense.

[L.T.F.C.]

The board of Galway United FC ltd (prior to handing over the daily running of the company to GUST) were responsible for the professional running of the club. Part of that involved an application for a licence. The job, ultimately, was the responsibility of a certain Mr. Leeson who had been the CEO. He failed in this duty, one of many failings, many would argue. The board as his employers failed to remove him from his post and instead agreed to his becoming a major shareholder. The failure to get a licence lies with the board of United alone.

The problem for most fans is that the members of GUST have been working tirelessly to pay bills, clear debts and work behind the scenes to get a licence for the club they love. Fans are gutted at the prospect of losing that club especially now because after 34 years there is a real hope that the club could become a community club run by the fans. I don't really care who is to blame for not getting a licence but I care deeply that we do get one. I believe that GUST would run the club with honour, professionalism, passion and dignity. I just want a chance to show that we can.
Did you get that from a z-rated court drama?

[WoodquayBoy]

Did you get that from a z-rated court drama?

What attempted intelligent point is it you are trying to make? Seriously, what's your point? Or are you just being a (failed) smartarse trying to be clever in belittling a passionate post from a fan who has spent the last 34 years of his life supporting Galway Rovers/United?

[Jofspring]

Limerick have been given a full week to sort out their problems all we are asking for is fairplay.

Big difference between the two situations though. Limerick don't have any problems. Limerick had all the necessary documents, certs, letters of guarantee etc... in in time for the deadline. This extra guarantee the Licensing Committee/FAI are looking for had nothing to do with the actual original application. Also Limerick upon hearing what needed to be done to secure it had it sorted the same day. Through no fault of theirs they had to wait till Thursday and now Monday.

[Big Chief]

Limerick don't have any problems.

Best not make statements like that, they have a tendency to come back to bite fans of League of Ireland clubs!

I've only been to Jackman Park once following Finn Harps and, although the number of Limerick fans was disappointing, I thought the were the best craic I'd come across at all the away grounds I've been to. It strikes me that the F.A.I., after a bit of posturing, will give them the benefit of the doubt and upgrade them from a conditional to a full licence.

[Mr A]

Galway's meeting was due to start at 8am according to a post on the GUST forum.

[gael353]

fair play.one point though is that limerick never requested this extension and i see a galway fan asking for "fairness" ;) limerick had to come up with over 200,000 yo yos in three days while no other club had to have this "condition" sounds fair to me