Conor Sammon F Alloa Athletic b.1986

[nigel-harps1954]

Oh dear...he was awful last night.

[OwlsFan]

Terrible first touch but I can't believe it is as bad as that. He has afterall played Premiership football both in Scotland and England. He probably saw more of the ball than any other player, even if he kept giving it to the opposition. Not to be totally negative, he did make life uncomfortable for their defenders and was a nuisance all evening and kept going for the 90 minutes.

[Charlie Darwin]

His touch was good in the first half (one lovely first time pass to McClean in particular) but it seemed to desert him in the second half, particularly in front of goal. I'd put it down to inexperience at this level, definitely something he can iron out.

[pineapple stu]

He wasn't awful. Or certainly no more so than others in what was a generally poor game. Long, for example, was anonymous too. It was Sammon, it should be noted, who controlled, turned and played in McClean (?) to win the corner from which we scored our opener; created that out of a very tight space. And mostentimes, the service he got was awful.

His first touch does need improving obviously, particularly when he was clean in (you can only allow that he was maybe taken by surprise at the wild clearance from the Polish guy, but he still should have scored).

What's interesting is that he was thrown in for his full debut (and 90 minutes at that) on his first call-up, whereas Trap usually allows people a couple of call-ups before even bringing them on as a sub. I wonder did nerves/inexperience get to him a bit last night, and would he have been better served by a few more call-ups before a debut?

[Crosby87]

The bald wonder was proud to play in Green:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21381407

[DannyInvincible]

[Sammon] continued: "We have great experience in the striking department with Kevin Doyle, Shane Long, Jon Walters and Simon Cox.

No mention of our most experienced striker of them all?

[BonnieShels]

David Connolly?

[SkStu]

Grabbed one for Derby tonight against Cardiff.

[Sullivinho]

Grabbed one for Derby tonight against Cardiff.

And people say this is the weakest Irish team in memory!

[DeLorean]

Hit the post with a penalty for Derby yesterday to go with his two yard sitter against Bristol City. Luckily for him Paul Coutts was quickest to snap up the rebound, although he should have been pulled for encroaching. Sammon was really poor overall unfortunately.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/01/article-2302360-1908CA80000005DC-689_634x373.jpg

[pineapple stu]

Interesting one. He's technically one of the best penalty takers I've ever seen in the LoI - certainly UCD's best - but I think this is his first penalty since moving to Britain. Was always surprised he didn't take penalties elsewhere, and a bit surprised he missed this one.

[Charlie Darwin]

Clearly stung by all the criticism he's been receiving on foot.ie.

[SkStu]

Clearly stung by all the criticism he's been receiving on foot.ie.

No, thats his regular face.

[Fixer82]

David Connolly?

Scored Portsmouth's winner

[DeLorean]

Interesting one. He's technically one of the best penalty takers I've ever seen in the LoI - certainly UCD's best - but I think this is his first penalty since moving to Britain.

Afraid not, he missed a late penalty a few weeks back to level a game against Palace (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21543707), smashed it down the middle but keeper got something on it deflecting it on to the bar. Jamie Ward is Derby's regular penalty taker but he missed one recently (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21892073) as well, and was injured for the Leeds game in any case. I'm surprised to hear he had a good technique while taking them in the LoI, he basically just blasted the one against Palace and scuffed the one against Leeds, probably a confidence thing.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/03/01/article-2286789-18618097000005DC-448_634x286.jpg

[Roberto]

I think this wigan fan sums up Sammon ''Connor Sammon was keen but couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo and Di Santo is not much different in my view'' :D

[pineapple stu]

I'm surprised to hear he had a good technique while taking them in the LoI
Think he scored 6/6 for us, generally aiming for (and hitting) the inside of the side netting.

Edit - except for this one, which is pretty much a perfect penalty (2:25) -

WaoZgU_AlgQ

[DeLorean]

Perfect alright, if risky. I prefer the guys who take them sensibly like 2:35!

[geysir]

Those 'highlights' were a very hard watch but some of the penalties were first class.
Sammon's one was the very definition of unstoppable.

[Charlie Darwin]

Perfect alright, if risky.
Why is it risky? I'd say the traditional "just make sure you hit the target" approach is riskier. As Stu said, he's a technically good penalty taker, so why not try to place the ball where the goalkeeper won't get it?

[DeLorean]

I just think hitting them that high is playing with fire, not much room for error. Low and hard towards the corner are the safer bet like 2:35.

The better penalty takers tend to keep them fairly low more often than not.

[Charlie Darwin]

The English ones do. More technical players tend to place them high and to the corner, where the goalkeeper is least likely to reach it.

[pineapple stu]

Yep. Hit it high, and the keeper will not save it (that's almost a statistical fact), so the only issue is getting it on target.

Hit it low, and you've a better chance of hitting the target, and a better chance of the keeper reaching it.

[DeLorean]

The English ones do. More technical players tend to place them high and to the corner, where the goalkeeper is least likely to reach it.

Leighton Baines and Alan Shearer are two pretty successful penalty takers who often put them fairly high. Can't really think of many others. Ruud Van Nistelrooy had perfected the kind of penalty I think is safest, very low and very hard into the corner. He started missing when he stopped doing this, famously against Arsenal's 'invincibles' when he hit the crossbar.

[Charlie Darwin]

Have a watch of this, Uruguay's masterclass in penalty-taking from the 2011 Copa America. Four of their penalties are effectively unsavable, whereas Muslera saved one and got a hand to another Argentinian penalty, both of which were hit low into the corner. There's a reason why England never lose every penalty shoot out they're involved in.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0BGS34CyuU

[DeLorean]

In fairness the one that was saved was neither low nor into the corner. Players put them at a nice height for keepers far too often. Some of those Uruguay ones weren't really that high either, just very well struck with power an accuracy. Anyway, keep hitting them high and this will eventually happen :) ....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DSLzsMXCAE

[Charlie Darwin]

You're being a little bit sophistic here. I could point to dozens of penalties the goalkeeper has easily saved and say "keep hitting them low in the corner and this will happen." Tevez's penalty WAS hit low and to the corner, he just misdirected it, like Suarez did there. I'd be willing to bet my mother on the certainty that there are a lot more penalties saved than hit wide or over, which would suggest that hitting it towards the top corners is the relatively risk-averse option. Of course, you need a bit of bottle and the technical ability to pull it off, which is why not many players are willing to attempt it on a regular basis.

[Fixer82]

Steve Finnan V Spain - World Cup 2002. Now that's how you take a peno!

[Junior]

Ah feck it, for old times sake.......(Finnan SPOT kick from 5:00 onwards)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsfTKyF5Bu4

[DeLorean]

You're being a little bit sophistic here.

Ah come on now, I wasn't taking the discussion that seriously. I just happened to remember Suarez blowing one miles over the bar and he was one of the penalty takers in your clip. It's wasn't meant as conclusive proof or anything. Surely your presentation of the penalty shoot-out is a little bit sophistic too?


I could point to dozens of penalties the goalkeeper has easily saved and say "keep hitting them low in the corner and this will happen." Tevez's penalty WAS hit low and to the corner, he just misdirected it, like Suarez did there.

Yeah, that's all true I would think. Tevez type of penalty wasn't really the type of penalty I was referring to though, in my original comment on the subject. He went for brute force really which will generally compromise the accuracy. I'd prefer to take a little off the velocity and concentrate more on the accuracy. If you put the ball towards that side netting that PineappleStu was talking about, keepers will rarely get over to save it, whether it's high or low.


I'd be willing to bet my mother on the certainty that there are a lot more penalties saved than hit wide or over, which would suggest that hitting it towards the top corners is the relatively risk-averse option.

There are definitely more saved than hit wide or over, that's fairly obvious seeing as from 12 yards players are generally going to hit the target. I don't think that tells us much really, as we don't know the stats on the percentage of high penalties that miss the target and we don't know the percentage of low penalties that are saved. Also, when a player is going for the 'high' option there is also the possibility he'll underhit it, and leave it at a nice height for the keeper.


Of course, you need a bit of bottle and the technical ability to pull it off, which is why not many players are willing to attempt it on a regular basis.

You need bottle because it's a more risky penalty, which was my point in the first place. Fair enough though, I know you think it's only riskier in relation to hitting the target and not in terms of your percentage chance of actually scoring.

[pineapple stu]

we don't know the stats on how the percentage of high penalties that miss the target and we don't know the percentage of low penalties that are saved.
Some stats here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/euro-2012/9361604/The-science-of-penalty-shoot-outs-where-and-how-spot-kicks-are-scored-at-major-tournaments.html) from every World Cup/Euro Championship penalty shoot-out from 1998 to 2012 (probably not a big sample in fairness). Not one shot to the top third of the goal was saved, and there was a higher miss rate amongst players aiming for the bottom right than anywhere else bar centre top. One-third of all penalties to the bottom left were saved.

Conclusion? Aim for the top corner.

[geysir]

Quite a big difference when talking about Sammon's penalty technique/ability/confidence etc. in a penalty shoot out in a league cup game in Kildare and comparing it to a championship game at a packed ground.

[ifk101]

Is that based on personal experience?

[Fixer82]

Ah feck it, for old times sake.......(Finnan SPOT kick from 5:00 onwards)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsfTKyF5Bu4

God, that commentator is so annoying. It's so obvious he's already seen the game before commentating on it

[geysir]

Is that based on personal experience?
:)
Of course.
All our opinions here on this matter are based on objective analysis of exact personal experience of the event we are discussing.

[DeLorean]

Some stats here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/euro-2012/9361604/The-science-of-penalty-shoot-outs-where-and-how-spot-kicks-are-scored-at-major-tournaments.html) from every World Cup/Euro Championship penalty shoot-out from 1998 to 2012 (probably not a big sample in fairness). Not one shot to the top third of the goal was saved, and there was a higher miss rate amongst players aiming for the bottom right than anywhere else bar centre top. One-third of all penalties to the bottom left were saved.

Conclusion? Aim for the top corner.

Well I would agree that if you hit a penalty high and on target, it won't really be saved. The debate overall was more to do with whether it was worth the risk of missing the target completely by hitting it high. This would suggest that it's not, don't you think?...

"Well over half of those penalties missed were aimed at the top third of the goal. Almost a quarter of those missed were aimed bottom left, a function of this being the most popular target."

[ifk101]

:)
Of course.
All our opinions here on this matter are based on objective analysis of exact personal experience of the event we are discussing.

Never liked the pitch in Newbridge myself, too close to the train which put me off many a penalty kick. Never had such problems in the Championship mind you.

[pineapple stu]

Well I would agree that if you hit a penalty high and on target, it won't really be saved. The debate overall was more to do with whether it was worth the risk of missing the target completely by hitting it high. This would suggest that it's not, don't you think?...
[B][I]
Well yes, but part of the point of being a good penalty taker technically is that you're more likely not to blaze it over.

[DeLorean]

The English ones do. More technical players tend to place them high and to the corner, where the goalkeeper is least likely to reach it.


There's a reason why England nearly lose every penalty shoot out they're involved in.

A combination of curiosity and too much time on my hands made me look back over the previous England penalty shoot-outs. The only one I didn't watch was the one against Portugal in 2004, as I couldn't find it on YouTube.

I discovered that England aim high more often than the opposition, and have had a lot of success in doing so. Ashley Young hitting the bar against Italy and Chris Waddle's famous high and wide against West Germany in 1990 their only misses. Beardsley, Shearer (2), Merson, Owen, Gascoigne and Sheringham have all scored to the upper third of the net.

England's opponents have scored with all of their 'high' attempts except for Fernando Hierro in 1996, when he hit the bar.

All four of the German spot kicks in 1990 were aimed low (well KH Riedle's was debatable, probably the middle third). 4/6 of the German penalties in 1996 were aimed high. In all, they scored 10/10 !!

All-in-all your argument that 'hitting them high is best' is fairly well supported I think, but you may have been a bit harsh on England (even if they did lose most of the shoot-outs).



Ah look at him there....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Connor_Sammon.jpg

[SkStu]

There's a reason why England never lose every penalty shoot out they're involved in.

Cannot... Compute...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/jelielsdistrurbance/Smash.gif

[Charlie Darwin]

Serious questions need to be asked about my command of the English language.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ward missed another penalty, meaning Derby have missed their last four, two apiece.

[DeLorean]

Yeah, poor penalty, he should have lifted it :) But for injuries and penalty misses, Derby could be comfortably in the playoffs. Clough is doing a reasonable job I suppose on a shoestring, but he's lucky he is who he is I think or he could be under a bit of pressure at this stage.

Sammon hit the post with a one on one, should have scored for sure. Mick McCarthy as honest as ever after the game "I was sat in the dressing room and I thought I heard the sirens, the police were coming because it was a robbery!".

[Crosby87]

serious questions need to be asked about my command of the english language.

yes! ;)

[tricky_colour]

Some stats here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/euro-2012/9361604/The-science-of-penalty-shoot-outs-where-and-how-spot-kicks-are-scored-at-major-tournaments.html) from every World Cup/Euro Championship penalty shoot-out from 1998 to 2012 (probably not a big sample in fairness). Not one shot to the top third of the goal was saved, and there was a higher miss rate amongst players aiming for the bottom right than anywhere else bar centre top. One-third of all penalties to the bottom left were saved.

Conclusion? Aim for the top corner.


The danger with that is putting it over the top. My technique was to imagine I was taking corner through the goal frame.
I think that keep it low, so I would try and put it through about 5 feet high, with basically a yard to spare to the side
and above, I felt I was guaranteed not to miss the goal like that it also works out at 13 feet from the goal keepers
feet in a straight line. Good luck to the keeper if he can stop it!! I reckon it's hard to stop even if the keeper
guesses where you are going to put it. Looks better than a low penalty too!!

[DeLorean]

My technique was to imagine I was taking corner through the goal frame.

That actually makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately for me I was terrible at taking corners. A master at cutting them though :)

[Charlie Darwin]

Spurs-Basle currently in penalties, with Basle leading 2-1 after two apiece. Nice case study on whether the more technical team wins, and where the penalties are struck. No surprise Sigurdsson scored for Spurs and Huddlestone missed.

Basle: low (scored), high (scored), high (scored) high (scored)
Spurs: low (missed) high (scored) high (missed)

Lou Macari banging on about always hitting the target, ignoring the fact the target contains a goalkeeper who's far more mobile than a goalpost.

[DeLorean]

Haha damn you CD (and PS!). I don't think I'll ever be able to watch a shoot-out again without thinking of this discussion. I thought the fact that Lennon and Defoe weren't there might actually help Spurs in the shoot-out, both extremely likely to miss, particularly Defoe because he'd be stupid enough to take one even though his record is cat. To be fair Huddlestone is certainly not lacking in technical ability and is a lovely striker of a ball normally. I'd say Adebayor has forgotten about his miss already. The Basel penalties were top class. I thought the first guy was going to miss when I saw his unusual run up but he really placed it well. Bale was a bit of a loss, he's taken a couple for Wales in recent times and was very composed in waiting for the keeper to move.

After my bout of shoot-out watching last week and tonight, I'm convinced at this stage you might as well take your chances going high.

[Charlie Darwin]

There is a mythology that has built up around Huddlestone that he is a lovely technical player in spite of the fact four successive Spurs managers have deemed him unworthy of a regular starting spot. He is the sort of player who hits the ball well once in the entire match and it will be the one highlight everybody remembers from the game. Craig Gardner is another Youtube hero.

Defoe is muck at penalties. I had to laugh when Lou Macari on 3e suggested Spurs would miss having Scott Parker to take penalties. The Basel penalties were lovely, although a couple may have been a bit too central for my liking. The evidence remains that more technically-adept players tend to win shoot-outs :)

[geysir]

Lou Macari banging on about always hitting the target, ignoring the fact the target contains a goalkeeper who's far more mobile than a goalpost.
Yes, but Brad Friedel is one of the goalkeepers and Brad (God help him) looks as mobile as a tree trunk.