Liam Miller [Archive]

Plastic Paddy

10/02/2004, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Macy
LOL, Pearson does exactly the same to join Celtic and he's a hero....

Wrong. Despite being a lifelong Celtic fan, Pearson went public in saying that he wanted Motherwell to command a fee for the investment in his career to date. Hence £350k changed hands, when indeed he could have signed a pre-contract agreement and joined us in the summer for nothing. Honourable behaviour under the circumstances on his part, and as we wanted to secure his services rather than play the Bosman lottery, we were happy to pay the price demanded by Motherwell.

Only four weeks before signing his PCA with ManUre, Miller was quoted as saying that he'd been a Celtic supporter all his life and didn't want to play for anyone else. Not four weeks later, he was sat beside Sir Awex telling everyone how he'd only ever supported two clubs. I think you know the rest.

:mad: PP

Plastic Paddy

10/02/2004, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by only1kilbane
he will learn a lot more at united than he would in a two team league playing heavyweights such as partick thistle !!!!

As opposed to watching a two/three team league whilst playing the likes of Bolton reserves and Preston reserves. Yeah, right... :rolleyes:

;) PP

Bowsy

10/02/2004, 1:09 PM

It's a disaster for the lad. Why he signed an agreement to stay for the season is beyond me. While i take an interest in Celtic's fortunes my main interest is in what benefits the Irish national team the most. Even if the transfer had been made in an "honouable" way it would still be a disaster with him playing a bit part role a la Bellion next season. As it stands it looks like setting his career back 2 years. That along with the amount of time he spends on the treatment table makes me fear he could be another one that got away.

Macy

10/02/2004, 1:17 PM

Why, because he played so often for Celtic as it was? He's either good enough or not, and if Martin O'Neill OBE is so fúckin good, then why wasn't he signed up on a long term contract? Use the injury arguement and you're basically admitting that Glasgow Celtic weren't loyal enough to him either.

He's joining one of the biggest clubs in the world, Celtic aren't even in the same league (and not likely to be for some time yet ;) )

only1kilbane

10/02/2004, 1:19 PM

why is everyone so convinced that he will be a regular in the united reserves ?

people like fletcher and phil neville have been given runs in the side because they have been performing !

the lad seems to have the confidence and the ability to match if not be a better player than these two for example !

after his performances for celtic he could still not command a regular spot so whats all the fuss ? he was hardly too young to be thrown in as a regular for celtic and is a far better player than the average neil lennon !

Plastic Paddy

10/02/2004, 1:38 PM

Originally posted by only1kilbane
after his performances for celtic he could still not command a regular spot so whats all the fuss ? he was hardly too young to be thrown in as a regular for celtic and is a far better player than the average neil lennon !

This season he had commanded a regular spot. Only injury has prevented him from playing a bigger part this year, just as injury seemed to prevent him being involved previously at all. And despite being offered a new deal at Celtic and the guarantee of first-team football with Champions League football more-or-less annually, he felt that he'd be better served trying to secure a berth in the ManUre midfield.

Say what you like about Lennon, he's always given everything in a club shirt. Miller would do well to learn from him.

:) PP

only1kilbane

10/02/2004, 1:45 PM

sorry but he was not a regular in the side ! if you look at the amount of substitute appearances he made his season you will see that !

As regards lennon playing for his shirt he does that well but does not make him any better than average !

Miller is ambitious and obviously feels he has the talent to make it at one of the biggest clubs in europe so why should he turn it down !

Ambition should not be criticised !

Plastic Paddy

10/02/2004, 2:08 PM

Aargh! Too many exclamation marks! ;)

Originally posted by only1kilbane
sorry but he was not a regular in the side ! if you look at the amount of substitute appearances he made his season you will see that !

I'm a regular at CP, so I know what I see. Believe me, Miller has been getting regular enough football this season. Twenty nine games (with about half as substitute) is no bad return for a man who's only just broken through into the first team picture. He can have no complaints about that.

I hope he plays one last time at Celtic before he goes, so we can all tell him just how much we love him. ;)

Originally posted by only1kilbane
Miller is ambitious and obviously feels he has the talent to make it at one of the biggest clubs in europe so why should he turn it down !

He's already at one of the biggest clubs in Europe! :p

Originally posted by only1kilbane
Ambition should not be criticised !

I don't question his ambition, and I'd certainly never hammer him over that. All I criticise is his conduct throughout the transfer. Players come and players go, and we as fans expect that. What we don't expect is to be taken for a ride in such a fashion by someone that also claims to be a fan. So **** him.

When (if ever) he wears the green I'll support him as a member of my team, but that doesn't mean I have to like him. I don't.

:mad: PP

only1kilbane

10/02/2004, 2:15 PM

fair enough we are all entitled to our opinion ! but to slag him off if he plays for you again is not the right way to go about it ! so if he scores against the huns are you going to be ****ed off !

its like his mate down at manu our ex captain ! i dont like him but will support him in manu or ireland jersey if he ever returned !

come on im sure your a passionate supporter but celtic are not one of the biggest teams in europe they hardly have the players or euopean pedigree in recent years to show this !

Macy

10/02/2004, 2:28 PM

Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
He's already at one of the biggest clubs in Europe!
Congratulations, the funniest post of the day.

Bowsy

10/02/2004, 2:28 PM

If any Celtic fans ever boo Liam Miller in an Ireland Jersey as i have heard suggested in other forums then they should be chucked out of Lansdowne Road. I admit he hasn't handled his transfer very well but at an Ireland game people our supposed to be supporting Ireland not Celtic. I too have no time for Roy Keane(no long winded Roy Keane debate please!!!) but would never not support him in an Ireland Jersey.

Plastic Paddy

10/02/2004, 2:51 PM

Originally posted by Bowsy
If any Celtic fans ever boo Liam Miller in an Ireland Jersey as i have heard suggested in other forums then they should be chucked out of Lansdowne Road. I admit he hasn't handled his transfer very well but at an Ireland game people our supposed to be supporting Ireland not Celtic. I too have no time for Roy Keane(no long winded Roy Keane debate please!!!) but would never not support him in an Ireland Jersey.

I agree wholeheartedly. Like I said before, I may not like him, but if he plays for my country he'll get my backing.

Originally posted by Macy
Congratulations, the funniest post of the day.

I live to give, Macy. Glad to keep you amused. :)

:D PP

Slash/ED

10/02/2004, 6:26 PM

Miller was dropped in quite a few of the cL matches Celtic played this year, poor form from Celtic I thought, he'd clearly warrented his place in the side every week and that could have gone some way to píssing him off enough for him to want to leave even more.

Plastic Paddy

10/02/2004, 6:35 PM

Not at all Slash. For every Anderlecht he played in, Miller had at least three Bayern and Dunfermline-type games in which he was anonymous, possessed little or no hunger and was generally irrelevant. Anyone who's seen more than half of Celtic's games this year will tell you the same. The boy has undisputed talent, but talent alone sometimes isn't enough. Martin O'Neill had his reasons for not picking Miller, and I dare say his attitude numbers among them. The manner in which his move was expedited seems to bear this one out.

:( PP

Macy

11/02/2004, 7:49 AM

So he actually wasn't any good? So WTF the problem with him leaving?

Dricky

11/02/2004, 8:32 AM

Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
Aargh! Too many exclamation marks! ;)

I'm a regular at CP, so I know what I see. Believe me, Miller has been getting regular enough football this season. Twenty nine games (with about half as substitute) is no bad return for a man who's only just broken through into the first team picture. He can have no complaints about that.

I hope he plays one last time at Celtic before he goes, so we can all tell him just how much we love him. ;)

He's already at one of the biggest clubs in Europe! :p

I don't question his ambition, and I'd certainly never hammer him over that. All I criticise is his conduct throughout the transfer. Players come and players go, and we as fans expect that. What we don't expect is to be taken for a ride in such a fashion by someone that also claims to be a fan. So **** him.

When (if ever) he wears the green I'll support him as a member of my team, but that doesn't mean I have to like him. I don't.

:mad: PP

suppose its his fault he got injured.

there are many better clubs than celtic... maybe the weather got to him :D

Plastic Paddy

11/02/2004, 9:02 AM

Originally posted by Macy
So he actually wasn't any good? So WTF the problem with him leaving?

Jeez Macy, I'm just glad I'm not facing you in a court of law. You'd run rings around me. :rolleyes:

Allow me to summarise:

1. Liam Miller is the best prospect Celtic have produced in years. Since Paul McStay in the early 1980s, in fact.

2. He broke into the first team this season and has shown flashes of undoubted brilliance, notably in the CL game against Anderlecht.

3. He has yet to deliver that form consistently, which is why he wasn't an automatic choice for the first team. We all saw enough, however, to know that he had everything necessary to establish himself in the first team for years to come.

4. A new contract was offered to him last August. The fact that he did not sign then was reported at the time as being due to the fact that his agent was on holiday.

5. In December, he was quoted as saying that he'd been a Celtic fan since boyhood and that he couldn't see himself playing anywhere else. A better contract than the one offered in August, reflecting the contribution he'd made since then and was likely to make in the future, was duly placed in front of him.

6. In January, he signed a PCA with ManUre and was heard at the press conference to say that he "supported two clubs". Meaning that point 5 was obviously in its entirety a load of b****cks and he'd lied to the fans.

Now, wouldn't you be just a wee bit ****ed off if your team's starlet did this to your club and, by extension, you as a fan?

I've tried to be unequivocal in my reasoning here, but you don't seem willing or able to understand my anger with the player and the situation. I don't know how much clearer I can be. :confused:

Originally posted by Dricky
maybe the weather got to him

Now that I can understand! It rains more in Manchester than in Glasgow, but at least it's a good deal warmer... :)

:mad: PP

tiktok

11/02/2004, 9:10 AM

Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
4. A new contract was offered to him last August. The fact that he did not sign then was reported at the time as being due to the fact that his agent was on holiday.

PP,

wasn't this just a one-year contract extension though. much was made of the deal Celtic were negotiating when he signed for united, but the latter showed more committment to him long term, the lad was just looking after his career.

Plastic Paddy

11/02/2004, 9:19 AM

I believe you're right about the August offer, but the December one was certainly more substantive. I understand and sympathise with your point about him wanting to better his career. Who wouldn't, after all? It's just his recent actions and the manner of his departure that leave a sour taste. In claiming to be a Celtic fan, he crossed the line in terms of expected behaviour. That's why he's now regarded with such contempt at CP.

:) PP

gspain

11/02/2004, 9:38 AM

Guys he was on £800 per week. If you believe rumours Longford Town are paying more than that now for decent players.

He only got a decent offer when Man United started sniffing around.

He would have been mad to turn down Man Utd and STG£25K per week.

From an Irish perspective I'd certainly like to see him playing first team football on a regular basis - great if that is Manyoo but I think that will be difficult so maybe a year at a smaller club would be better but you can't blame the guy for signing.

I don't care about Celtic or Man Utd but I do care about our best prospects playing at the highest level possible on a regular basis.

Xlex

11/02/2004, 9:50 AM

Originally posted by gspain
[B]If you believe rumours Longford Town are paying more than that now for decent players.

clarify that in the LTFC forum.... cheers...

Macy

11/02/2004, 9:56 AM

Originally posted by gspain
Guys he was on £800 per week. If you believe rumours Longford Town are paying more than that now for decent players.
Spill what you know, as Xlex says on the Town forum...

Junior

11/02/2004, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
Jeez Macy, I'm just glad I'm not facing you in a court of law. You'd run rings around me. :rolleyes:

Allow me to summarise:

1. Liam Miller is the best prospect Celtic have produced in years. Since Paul McStay in the early 1980s, in fact.

2. He broke into the first team this season and has shown flashes of undoubted brilliance, notably in the CL game against Anderlecht.

3. He has yet to deliver that form consistently, which is why he wasn't an automatic choice for the first team. We all saw enough, however, to know that he had everything necessary to establish himself in the first team for years to come.

4. A new contract was offered to him last August. The fact that he did not sign then was reported at the time as being due to the fact that his agent was on holiday.

5. In December, he was quoted as saying that he'd been a Celtic fan since boyhood and that he couldn't see himself playing anywhere else. A better contract than the one offered in August, reflecting the contribution he'd made since then and was likely to make in the future, was duly placed in front of him.

6. In January, he signed a PCA with ManUre and was heard at the press conference to say that he "supported two clubs". Meaning that point 5 was obviously in its entirety a load of b****cks and he'd lied to the fans.

Now, wouldn't you be just a wee bit ****ed off if your team's starlet did this to your club and, by extension, you as a fan?

I've tried to be unequivocal in my reasoning here, but you don't seem willing or able to understand my anger with the player and the situation. I don't know how much clearer I can be. :confused:

Now that I can understand! It rains more in Manchester than in Glasgow, but at least it's a good deal warmer... :)

:mad: PP

Perfect Analysis of the situation PP. I'm also a regular at Celtic Park, Miller was the one youngster who really looked like he could make the grade, Irish too, a perfect scenario. Some superb games and some games where he was non existent. But you felt he would be a star in time.

Celtic I feel were neglectful in not realising his talent & offering him a contract that reflected this, well in advance of the Anderlecht game. After this, he had been brought to the attention of everyone and obvioulsy other clubs can offer far better terms than Celtic.

While now I hope he continues to flourish into a great player for Irelands sake, I am gutted that it is not with Celtic and feel betrayed by Millers lies to the fans and the contempt he has shown us - he took us for a ride. lets hope it was worth it.

Jnr

Xlex

11/02/2004, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Junior
betrayed by Millers lies to the fans and the contempt he has shown us - he took us for a ride. lets hope it was worth it.

What about the tight Celtic board who didn't realise his worth early enough.

Celtic are finished when Larsson and MON leave. Rangers are on the downward spiral, Celtic will soon be to... the season tickets and the lack of real competition will result in a Norwegian type feeder league.

and who really refers to Parkhead as Celtic Park...

Junior

11/02/2004, 10:23 AM

What about the tight Celtic board who didn't realise his worth early enough.

I think I commented on Celtics neglect and in part they are to blame for Miller leaving - read the post.

Celtic are finished when Larsson and MON leave. Rangers are on the downward spiral, Celtic will soon be to... the season tickets and the lack of real competition will result in a Norwegian type feeder league.

Celtic are massive, you obviously have a no concept of this. I don't want to turn this into a Celtic thread, its about Liam Miller. One player or manager will never make our team and so if/when Larsson, MON leave, Celtic will continue on as we the fans are the club and we are going nowhere.

and who really refers to Parkhead as Celtic Park...

Well I do, thousands of other Celtic fans do and believe it or not that is what our ground is actually called - funny that:confused:

Plastic Paddy

11/02/2004, 10:30 AM

What Junior said. All of it. :)

:D PP

Macy

11/02/2004, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by Junior
Celtic are massive, you obviously have a no concept of this.
Celtic are small time compared to the likes of Manchester United - they can't compete with the European Elite they claim to be part of..... Team full of rejects, bar Larsson who obviously wanted to be a big fish in a small pond...

Plastic Paddy

11/02/2004, 11:19 AM

Hey Junior, this one's best left alone. Crowds of 60k week in, week out and a European final last season obviously aren't enough for some, as they'll always find something to pick at. Admit it; we've been outflanked by the boys from Flancare. All hail the Longford Mafia... ;)

:D PP

only1kilbane

11/02/2004, 11:30 AM

Crowds dont make you a massive club otherwise we would all consider newcastle a big club rather than an average wannabe !

as far the uefa cup come on its hardly worth much these days !

they showed there true quality against lyon away ! bobo the clown was at his best !!

Xlex

11/02/2004, 11:43 AM

you're fúckin hilarious... Compare CFC with MUFC and then LTFC with CFC... truth is that CFC lie somewhere in the 2nd quarter percentile.

What percentage of the 60,000 seats in Parkhead are the cheapest seasons tickets in the British Isles? What percentage of the 60,000 season tickets were 10 year tickets to build Parkhead... and what percentage of those season tickets will be renewed next year....

just to keep it on topic, Celtic fans can't believe an Irishman left Celtic to join a far superior club like MUFC. They chose to ignore the fact that the financial restraints of the SPL forced Celtic PLC to wait on an offer of a decent contract to a fantastic prospect...
Money walks in this game and Liam Miller smelt what was only available to him because of those tight laddies...

Junior

11/02/2004, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by only1kilbane
Crowds dont make you a massive club otherwise we would all consider newcastle a big club rather than an average wannabe !

Fans are a club, without them the club will cease to exist. A fairly simple fact, Im surprised on a fans forum that you don't understand this :confused: add to this, history, tradition, success, stadium etc... and you begin to see what makes a club massive. Are we as big as Real or Man U - no and who else is, but are we massive - yes.

Originally posted by only1kilbane

as far the uefa cup come on its hardly worth much these days !

Is it the Champions League? No and of course that is where the crem de la crem want to be, but it is the next best thing and I'm sure our run last season has improved our chances of continuing to make an impact in Europe in the forthcoming seasons

Originally posted by only1kilbane

they showed there true quality against lyon away ! bobo the clown was at his best !!

or perhaps Lyon at home?? (or did you forget that one) didn't man u get beat by Wolves recently, they must be a small club:confused:

Junior

11/02/2004, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by Xlex
What percentage of the 60,000 seats in Parkhead are the cheapest seasons tickets in the British Isles? What percentage of the 60,000 season tickets were 10 year tickets to build Parkhead... and what percentage of those season tickets will be renewed next year....

Q What percentage of this point do I not understand?
A 100%

Originally posted by Xlex

just to keep it on topic, Celtic fans can't believe an Irishman left Celtic to join a far superior club like MUFC. They chose to ignore the fact that the financial restraints of the SPL forced Celtic PLC to wait on an offer of a decent contract to a fantastic prospect...
Money walks in this game and Liam Miller smelt what was only available to him because of those tight laddies...

I disagree, Man U are a bigger club and offered him a huge contract and I don't dispute that. I'm cheesed off because
a) I think in the short term at least his football career would have been better served at Celtic
b) he has turned out to be a 'badge kisser'. No doubt, if Real Madrid come in for him ' he'll have only ever supported 3 teams blah blah....'
c) Celtic have lost out on a great Irish prospect - gutted

Plastic Paddy

11/02/2004, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by Xlex
you're fúckin hilarious... Compare CFC with MUFC and then LTFC with CFC...

I didn't. I was just having a giggle about the fact that the two people picking issue with what we're saying are both from Longford. Nothing more sinister than that. Glad you find us funny though. :)

Originally posted by Xlex
What percentage of the 60,000 seats in Parkhead are the cheapest seasons tickets in the British Isles? What percentage of the 60,000 season tickets were 10 year tickets to build Parkhead... and what percentage of those season tickets will be renewed next year....

Taking your questions one at a time:

1. What sort of question is that? I'm not sure what answer you're after; however, a season book for the best views at CP costs little more than £230, or just under £10 a match.

2. The club does not offer 10-year tickets (on the line of bonds offered to supporters of clubs such as Manchester City and Newcastle). However, the stadium was completely rebuilt in the 1990s under the chairmanship of Fergus McCann, in part using funding raised from three completely-subscribed rights issues in which Celtic fans took part.

(To be pedantic, Parkhead is merely the area of Glasgow in which Celtic Park is situated. But don't let the fact that Junior has already pointed that out in this thread put you off.)

3. Of 53,000 season tickets, about 52,500 will be renewed. The waiting list for new applicants runs into thousands and will take several years to scale.

Originally posted by Xlex
just to keep it on topic,

at last... ;)

Originally posted by Xlex
Celtic fans can't believe an Irishman left Celtic to join a far superior club like MUFC. They chose to ignore the fact that the financial restraints of the SPL forced Celtic PLC to wait on an offer of a decent contract to a fantastic prospect...
Money walks in this game and Liam Miller smelt what was only available to him because of those tight laddies...

No, you're wrong. We know all about our board's "biscuit-tin" mentality and the financial and other limitations of the SPL. We even make allowances for those factors, which is why we're a little sanguine about missing out on the likes of Beckham, Reyes, Saha and all in recent transfer exchanges. I guess our disappointment comes from naively expecting better standards of conduct from an Irishman and self-confessed Celtic "fan" like Miller. That's all.

:) PP

only1kilbane

11/02/2004, 1:10 PM

To me big clubs are those who are regularly in the late stages of the champions league ! Obviously Celtic who nearly have a free run into the competition if they are to be considered one of the big clubs they need to be at least reaching the quarter finals on a regular basis !

Just to pose a question ! if they are so big , how many of the current celtic team bar henrik would be good enough to play for any of the top three in england for example !

big club once maybe ! but so are notts forest !

Macy

11/02/2004, 1:14 PM

Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
I didn't. I was just having a giggle about the fact that the two people picking issue with what we're saying are both from Longford. Nothing more sinister than that. Glad you find us funny though. :)
Actually, I'm not...

Bowsy

11/02/2004, 1:18 PM

Not a big Celtic fan but they are a massive club. There is a difference between a club being Massive and winning things every year. Liverpool are massive but are currently rubbish. Man U would still be a Massive club even if they didn't challenge for the league this year. Celtic have the problem of playing in a poor league which stops them attracting huge stars which in turn damages their chances of competing in Europe. That doesn't mean they are not massive.

Plastic Paddy

11/02/2004, 1:18 PM

Originally posted by Macy
Actually, I'm not...

Oh, okay then smarty-pants, Longford supporters. At least that's what I'm reading into the big avatar you use. :p

Good to see I've met my pedantic match. :)

:D PP

Macy

11/02/2004, 1:21 PM

Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
Good to see I've met my pedantic match.
:D
The celtic fans here remind me of Manchester City fans - MASSIVE

Junior

11/02/2004, 1:25 PM

Originally posted by only1kilbane
To me big clubs are those who are regularly in the late stages of the champions league ! Obviously Celtic who nearly have a free run into the competition if they are to be considered one of the big clubs they need to be at least reaching the quarter finals on a regular basis !

This is certainly one factor, and one thing that I hope Celtic can achieve. To ignore all the other factors I suggest play a part in making a club big, is fairly small minded if you ask me. Barca are massive, but look at them on the field at the moment!!

Originally posted by only1kilbane

Just to pose a question ! if they are so big , how many of the current celtic team bar henrik would be good enough to play for any of the top three in england for example !

Liam Miller;)

I'm well aware of the limitations of the SPL in terms of standards of football, competition, money etc..- hence why the comparison to suggest Celtic will posess many individuals that could get in to a Man U or Arsenal first team is ridiculous. As I've said it takes more than being successful in europe for a season or two to make you a big club (in my eyes anyhow)

Plastic Paddy

11/02/2004, 1:27 PM

Originally posted by Macy
:D
The celtic fans here remind me of Manchester City fans

Now you're being downright rude. :p

And what's this "massive" thingy about anyway? :confused:

:D PP

only1kilbane

11/02/2004, 2:03 PM

The other factors do matter but i just think that if your judgin clubs with big stadiums and big support there are a plenty !

Big teams to me are those who are regularly succesfull on a european stage ! good point with barca but to me they would be currently a big club because of the stars they can attract and the fact that even in the state they are in your club would not fancy playin them in the champions league !

Plastic Paddy

11/02/2004, 2:17 PM

Originally posted by only1kilbane
The other factors do matter but i just think that if your judgin clubs with big stadiums and big support there are a plenty !

Big teams to me are those who are regularly succesfull on a european stage ! good point with barca but to me they would be currently a big club because of the stars they can attract and the fact that even in the state they are in your club would not fancy playin them in the champions league !

What is it with you and bleedin' exclamation marks?!? :p

As far as Barcelona go, I don't think they'd much fancy playing us either. Certainly not at Celtic Park. We may well see in the UEFA Cup later this season.

:) PP