Win or Bust for Bohs

[Ezeikial]

Irish Independent article

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/win-or-bust-for-bohs-1815617.html



Gypsies need to win league and beat Red Bull to avoid relegation

By Neil Ahern
Friday July 10 2009

BOHEMIANS will be facing almost certain relegation at the end of the season unless they pull off a massive double.
Bohs will be teetering over the trapdoor into the First Division if they fail to retain the League of Ireland championship and miss out on progression into the second qualification round of the Champions League, it was claimed at a club information meeting last Tuesday night.
Club members were informed by finance director, Chris Brien, that failure to win the league title and beat Red Bull Salzburg in the first qualifying round of the Champions League, would leave them 15pc above the FAI's 65pc Salary Cost Protocol.
EXPULSION
That would mean having to raise over €250,000 of extra funds in order to conform with the maximum percentage of income clubs are allowed to spend on players' wages.
According to the figures released at the meeting, Bohs are currently at a level of roughly 68pc.
If they end the season above the cut-off point, they will face relegation, expulsion from any European competition for which they qualify and will also relinquish any trophies they win this season.
According to the club's finance committee, the prize money earned from a second successive League of Ireland title and progression in the Champions League, along with the extra finances that would bring, is the only way in which they can avoid relegation.
And even that might not be enough as they would still be spending 67pc of their income on players' salaries and in need of an estimated €140,000 to edge below the 65pc mark, it was stated.
The members were told that the club had budgeted to spend €1.4m on players' wages this season, but that figure had to be increased to €1.6m to take into account bonuses still due to the players for their league win last season.
Their players' wage bill in 2008 was in excess of €1.9m. The players accepted a wage cut at the start of the season but they are still earning an average of €70,000 per year.
Bohs' general secretary, Gerry Conway, has suggested that some figures with regard to gate receipts for July may have been underestimated in the finance committee's address to the members and expressed confidence that the club would comply with the FAI's Salary Cost Protocol this season.
"I have 100pc faith that we will not be in breach of the Protocol on November 30 (the FAI deadline)," he said.
"There are other income sources which may not have been factored into these figures because that money is not yet at hand."
The FAI declined to comment on Bohs' current situation, but in an interview with the Irish Independent in May, Internal Compliance Officer Padraig Smith outlined the association's concerns over the club's wage-bill.
"The Salary Cost Protocol is a big issue for them this year," said Smith. "When you have salaries that are so high and the other side of the business is not generating sufficient income to match that expenditure, it's obviously worrying.
"We've met with the club and they (are) well aware of their obligations and the sanctions for breaching those rules.
"It is something that we will be monitoring throughout the season and we'll know by the end of the year if they've breached the Salary Cost Protocol. If they do breach it, they will be sanctioned."
Some members are already privately resigned to the club reverting to a part-time set-up next year, possibly in the First Division.
- Neil Ahern

[the-blue-harp]

thats stupid money to be paying in this league, pat fenlon continues on his path of destruction.

[seand]

An average wage of 70K! With an average attendance of about 2,000. Scary stuff.

[cheifo]

Crazy money and once again this type of news could end up be the main talking points of the League Season.

Bohemians clearly have a lot of dedicated hard working fans.What they clearly don't have is a large support base. Thier attendances during the last couple of years of success have been frighteningly small.

[Dodge]

thats stupid money to be paying in this league, pat fenlon continues on his path of destruction.

He can only ask for a budget, like every other manager in the league.

Funniest part of the article is Gerry disagreeing with his Finance Officer

[Jicked]

For the sake of the league's health in future years it'd be good for Bohs to be relegated. if they get away with it this year by beating Red Bull they'll continue on in the same pathetic manner

[pineapple stu]

Funniest part of the article is Gerry disagreeing with his Finance Officer
Followed closely by the claim that Bohs' wages are at 67% of turnover. They've probably added in another E1m from Danninger this season.


BOHEMIANS will be facing almost certain relegation at the end of the season unless they pull off a massive double.
Bohs will be teetering over the trapdoor into the First Division if they fail to retain the League of Ireland championship and miss out on progression into the second qualification round of the Champions League, it was claimed at a club information meeting last Tuesday night.
Club members were informed by finance director, Chris Brien, that failure to win the league title and beat Red Bull Salzburg in the first qualifying round of the Champions League, would leave them 15pc above the FAI's 65pc Salary Cost Protocol.
And thank God for the Indo repeating the same things three times; I wasn't sure exactly what was meant until I read it the third time...

[Duggie]

more bad news though lads....champions league group stages are further away than ever before. no crowds = no money.

[John83]

Irish Independent article

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/win-or-bust-for-bohs-1815617.html


And even that might not be enough as they would still be spending 67pc of their income on players' salaries and in need of an estimated €140,000 to edge below the 65pc mark, it was stated.
So, if they win everything, they'd be spending 67% on wages. But if they added €140,000, they'd be at 65%.

W = 0.67*X
W = 0.65*(X + 140,000)
Where W is their wage bill and X is their projected double-winning income.

=>
0.67X = 0.65(X+140,000)
=>
0.02X = 91,000
=>
X = 4,550,000
=>
W = 0.67*4,550,000 = 3,048,500

A €3M wage bill according to their own figures. But wait!


The members were told that the club had budgeted to spend €1.4m on players' wages this season, but that figure had to be increased to €1.6m to take into account bonuses still due to the players for their league win last season.
Someone's telling porkies.

I'll note that there's a bit of wiggle room in that the 67% figure may be rounded down from a figure as high as 67.49%, but that only changes the resulting wage bill to €2.47M.

[pineapple stu]

A €3M wage bill according to their own figures.
It's also turnover of €4.5m, which is nonsense, even with Danninger's money.

[John83]

Well, you'd know better than me from the CRO records. My guess is that the 67% figure is total ******, and they're actually way over the cap.

[Mr A]

Methinks that some of the discrepancy above at least may be explained by the fact that they have a very high wage bill for 'coaches' who just happen to also be footballers. So they may only be spending 1.6 million on players, yet their overall wage bill is much, much higher.

Anyway, it's clear that if the people in charge of Bohs are in any was responsible they'll be looking to offload quite a few players in July.

[pineapple stu]

Well, you'd know better than me from the CRO records.
Pretty sure it's been posted on here several times?

But yeah, I'd agree with your guess.

[John83]

Methinks that some of the discrepancy above at least may be explained by the fact that they have a very high wage bill for 'coaches' who just happen to also be footballers. So they may only be spending 1.6 million on players, yet their overall wage bill is much, much higher.
I'd agree if the wage cap is for all wages, which it possibly should be, but isn't. They say they need 140k to meet the wage cap, so the figures I quoted are the player wages.


Anyway, it's clear that if the people in charge of Bohs are in any was responsible they'll be looking to offload quite a few players in July.
Yes. Anyone actually expect them to do enough?

[manager]

The awful truth is that Cork CityFC wage bill is also approx 1.4 Million Euro PA with ever decreasing gates and sponsership.The best CCFC can hope for this year is 3rd in the League as they are gone out of all cups except Setanta and I dont see any future with that competition

[pineapple stu]

Anyway, it's clear that if the people in charge of Bohs are in any was responsible they'll be looking to offload quite a few players in July.

Yes. Anyone actually expect them to do enough?

Isn't it July now?

[thischarmingman]

I hate to see financial problems in the league and I hate to see those damned asteriks on the table at the end of a season but on this occasion I have no sympathy. The warning signs were all there and were ignored, and the club continued to shell out of wages and signings when they shoud have been cutting their cloth accordingly.

[Duggie]

Isn't it July now?

IS IT..........damn i forgot to pay me car tax so :D:D

[SeanDrog]

He can only ask for a budget, like every other manager in the league.

Funniest part of the article is Gerry disagreeing with his Finance Officer

yep that stood out for me as well

[Ezeikial]

Bohs are having great difficulty with consistency in their stories. Brian Trench PRO last May:

"Club public relations officer Brian Trench admits the situation is serious, but maintains the club is working hard to address the “revenue side”, having already reduced the annual wage bill from €1.95 million to €1.2 million in recent months"

[Mr A]

I'd agree if the wage cap is for all wages, which it possibly should be, but isn't. They say they need 140k to meet the wage cap, so the figures I quoted are the player wages.


I stand corrected.

I do seem to recall word that the cap would be extended to all wages though.. or did I dream that?

[John83]

Actually, I just noticed this:

Club members were informed by finance director, Chris Brien, that failure to win the league title and beat Red Bull Salzburg in the first qualifying round of the Champions League, would leave them 15pc above the FAI's 65pc Salary Cost Protocol.
EXPULSION
That would mean having to raise over €250,000 of extra funds in order to conform with the maximum percentage of income clubs are allowed to spend on players' wages. 0.8*X = W
0.65*(X+250,000) = W

0.15*X = €162,500
X = €1,083,333.33
W = €866,666.67

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they're just making up numbers.

EDIT: Mr. A, I think it's in the pipeline for future seasons.

[Schumi]

Yeah, I noticed that 15% bit didn't add up but thought that the guy writing the story might have picked it up wrong: it might have been they needed a 15% increase in income or their wage bill was 15% too high or would have to be reduced by 15% or some other use of 15% that gives a different answer. The 67% figure definitely looks wrong though.

[A N Mouse]

I'm having some trouble following the maths on this.

Simplifying (i know adding money on changes the percentages)
But surely the first bit about being 15% over, and needing 250k to make up the shortfall would indicate 15% equals approx 250k

Meaning a turnover of approx 1.8M

80% of which is about 1.4M

Of course the 67% figure makes absolutely no sense.

[eamo1]

Can someone explain,the salary cap is 65% yes??If Bohs are ALREADY above,or near, the salary cap then why are'nt they being docked points now??Galway Utd last July were threatened with a points deduction as they were approcahing the cap limit so they off loaded 6 players.WHY ARE'NT BOHS OFFLOADING PLAYERS NOW?????:confused:

[pineapple stu]

You can only break the salary cap at the end of the season. It's to give you a chance to react to your over-spending, and try and cut back under it (like clubs did last year with wage cuts).

Galway were (apparently) hit with a transfer embargo last year for being above the limit during the season, so they couldn't sign any players until they made room in their budget (which makes sense). Bohs have been hit with the same punishment so far this year.

[Dodge]

The salary cap is calculated over the season, not individual months

Bohs, like Galway last year have 2 options

1) cut costs and get under 65%
2) increase income and get under 65%

Galway tool the fisrt option (sensibly IMO), Bohs are taking the 2nd option

[Ezeikial]

The salary cap is calculated over the season, not individual months

Bohs, like Galway last year have 2 options

1) cut costs and get under 65%
2) increase income and get under 65%

Galway tool the fisrt option (sensibly IMO), Bohs are taking the 2nd option

Perhaps Bohs do not see that they have any real option at this point.

Presumably players are under contract and therefore they cannot release players without their agreement (and consequent financial compensation).

The ship already sailed pre-season, while Bohs were busy loading up on more expensive cargo (Shelley, Ndo, Keegan).

[blackholesun]

I wonder if they decided to make all the top players redundant and play kids for the rest of the year would they be able to avoid finishing last and maybe scrap in under the 65% rule.

If they go out of Europe, that might be their only hope of avoiding the drop would it not?

bhs

[Candystripe]

So what I'm reading here is if Bohs fail to beat Red Bull Salzburg and win the league they will only be 2% over the 65% cap.....................right so far?

If they do get through and win the league they will still be over it with a €140k shortfall?

These figure do not add up no matter how many ways and angles you look at it from. :confused:

The Bohs members and supporters must be going mental over this statement as it looks like the north Dublin derby will be back on next season albeit in the graveyard division.

Nice to see that this was added in at last................ "and will also relinquish any trophies they win this season." :D

[Mr A]

one wonders where Cork City stand with regards the 65% rule, considering their revenue has not been as Coughlan expected and their wage bill is known to be substantial.

No word of a transfer embargo there thus far, and indeed they seem to have players coming in on trial.

[Dalymountrower]

The salary cap is calculated over the season, not individual months

Bohs, like Galway last year have 2 options

1) cut costs and get under 65%
2) increase income and get under 65%

Galway tool the fisrt option (sensibly IMO), Bohs are taking the 2nd option

Well doing both would surely be the sensible approach? Not sure about the "fisrt" option, is he that Finnish economist?

Seems like we have ****ed off the FAI sufficiently to get the max sanction if/when we breach 65% cap by the end of November. If only we were a little
more/less (either applicable) feckless and didnt own a hunk of property we could apply for examinership and just face a points deduction!

[Longfordian]

I wonder if they decided to make all the top players redundant and play kids for the rest of the year would they be able to avoid finishing last and maybe scrap in under the 65% rule.

If they go out of Europe, that might be their only hope of avoiding the drop would it not?

bhs

As was said already they can't just make the players redundant, they have contracts. Judging by how slow they were to take paycuts I can't see them agreeing to cancel their contracts somehow even if it means the club going down.

[thischarmingman]

As was said already they can't just make the players redundant, they have contracts. Judging by how slow they were to take paycuts I can't see them agreeing to cancel their contracts somehow even if it means the club going down.

Nor should they. The club's financial position should be of no concern to them, that's what the board are paid for. They signed contracts which the club offered them.

[pineapple stu]

Well doing both would surely be the sensible approach?
It's a hell of a lot easier to cut costs than to increase income.

[dcfcsteve]

I'd love to hear what the reaction was from the supporters present when that infromation was presented to them :

'We're at the footballing equivalent of a black jack table. Best case scenario is we roll two sixes, which might just see us survive, thoiugh by no means certain. Anything else means we're likely to get relegated'.

I know the leagus is used to hearing tales of woe from club boards, but I don't think we've heard anything so crazy as what is going on at Bohs.

Talk about pressure on an entire club and its players. Every game is effectively a cup final for Bohs from now on, as just a couple of slip ups could see them implode. And given how mixed results ahve been for all clubs so far this year, the possibility of further slip-ups was already there without serious pressure being added as well.

Crazy, crazy stuff....

[pól-dcfc]

On the Bohs forum, some are still just sore that a mole leaked the details even though "we were told to keep it members only at the meeting".

How do they expect to save themselves if the wider public aren't aware of the situation? The only reason Derry got out of the hole we were in a few years ago was massive public appeals, hard work from board members and fans, the support of fans of other LoI clubs and the work done on behalf of the club by political figures.

[thischarmingman]

Nice to see that this was added in at last................ "and will also relinquish any trophies they win this season." :D

....:D

[Longfordian]

Nor should they. The club's financial position should be of no concern to them, that's what the board are paid for. They signed contracts which the club offered them.

Absolutely. Didn't mean to imply that they should. It was a response to somebody suggesting just letting the players go. It can't happen without their agreement.

[John83]

I'm having some trouble following the maths on this.

Simplifying (i know adding money on changes the percentages)
But surely the first bit about being 15% over, and needing 250k to make up the shortfall would indicate 15% equals approx 250k

Meaning a turnover of approx 1.8M

80% of which is about 1.4M
They would be 15% over the cap. That means that their wages would be 80% (65 + 15) of their total income.

The claim was that if their total income had €250,000 added to it, wages would be 65% of this new figure.

100 * Wages / Income = 0.8
100 * Wages / (Income + 250000) = 0.65

You're making the assumption that all of the €250k would count against wages, which is fine, but doesn't help their percentages as much.

You may have stumbled onto a mistake the reporter made though (possibly because of a bad explanation to him from Bohs' finance officer).


Of course the 67% figure makes absolutely no sense.
None whatsoever.

[thischarmingman]

Absolutely. Didn't mean to imply that they should. It was a response to somebody suggesting just letting the players go. It can't happen without their agreement.

Just so you know, I did actually mean to write at the start of that, "I know it's not what you're saying but..." :o

[John83]

one wonders where Cork City stand with regards the 65% rule, considering their revenue has not been as Coughlan expected and their wage bill is known to be substantial.

No word of a transfer embargo there thus far, and indeed they seem to have players coming in on trial.
The big problem there seems to have been the tax bill as much as anything, and while that'll have been a big addition to expenditure, it won't bother the 65% rule.

[Dalymountrower]

I'd love to hear what the reaction was from the supporters present when that infromation was presented to them :

'We're at the footballing equivalent of a black jack table. Best case scenario is we roll two sixes, .

....

It certainly wasn`t as optimistic as that!

If it happens that we breach the cap, its our own doing and we`ll have to take our oil and dop a division. If the 65% comes within reach though I woud expect that enough Bohs members and fans will generate sufficient revenue to squeeeze within it.
In any event, with all club salaries counted by the FAI from next year , it will be slash and burn for us in 2010.

[Derry]

Would it be right or fair if Bohs do not make the wage cap and be allowed to be league champions, if they win it. I mean they will have broken the rules this season, so surely they should be punished this season.

[Boh_So_Good]

I am proud of Bohs and their general atitude to running the club. Rather live a day like a lion than a life of a lamb.

Or rather; better to live a glorious season or two as a Bohs, Cork, Shels fan than a lifetime in the RSC.

The 'all or nothing' is what makes a club great and provides amazing memories for fans.

You see how this works? It's the choice between banging Angelina Jolie once, versus a life spent with a nice plain girl who thinks blow jobs are dirty.

Life is for living. Football is the same. Glory is worth the price. Deal with it or move to Limerick.

[Dalymountrower]

It certainly wasn`t as optimistic as that!


In any event, with all club salaries counted by the FAI from next year , it will be slash and burn for us in 2010.

Figuratively speaking, not in any incendiary Christmas tree sense.

[Longfordian]

You see how this works? It's the choice between banging Angelina Jolie once, versus a life spent with a nice plain girl who thinks blow jobs are dirty.


All well and good til you pick up HIV off Angelina.

[Duggie]

All well and good til you pick up HIV off Angelina.

hah:D

[Boh_So_Good]

hah:D

Nice to see she the provicials bonding in their eternal medoricity.

[LukeO]

thats stupid money to be paying in this league, pat fenlon continues on his path of destruction.

I think that's grossly unfair on Pat Fenlon as well as being factually inaccurate.

He has made two signings during his time at Bohs that were on big wages - Jason Byrne and Mindaugas Kalonas. The latter was effectively a direct swap for Kevin Hunt's wages when he retired and was only a short-term deal anyway.

So in reality, all bar one of our big earners pre-date Fenlon coming to Bohs. And the 3/4 players that were signed this year were signed on one-year €50k contracts.

Our problems are the fault of the previous board, not Pat Fenlon.