Win or Bust for Bohs [Archive] - Page 3

Scrufil

13/07/2009, 3:05 PM

This is something I find very interesting, as in when certain FAI rules are introduced the actual logistics of the rules being put into effect are never discussed to their conclusion by the FAI. The case of what team/teams benefit from the relegation of another (in all cases of relegation be it due to the 'little star effect' or lack of points) seems to be ill defined. As is the case whereby a team wins the league yet breaks the rules in doing so and if in the stripping of a league title this means the title should be awarded to the next highest placed team that have stayed within the rules. Technically staying within the rules could mean that even the 5th placed team, going by recent money going-ons over the last few seasons could be the league winner and retrospectively awarded the title. Much like some Olympic winners have been stripped of Gold and the next placed in order of merit is awarded the prize.

CMcC

13/07/2009, 3:13 PM

Surely from a selfish (coefficient) point of view we should all be wishing our European competitors well. To hope they get humped is extremely small time.

SkStu

13/07/2009, 3:28 PM

Surely from a selfish (coefficient) point of view we should all be wishing our European competitors well. To hope they get humped is extremely small time.

thanks.

what gets me is, bar Pineapple Stu who at least is consistent in his disdain for all overspending clubs, the complete difference in vitriol for Bohs on one hand and the rest of the clubs who have/had similar problems on the other. Maybe im wrong but i just dont see the same level of contempt towards Drogs, Cork, Derry, Shams, Sligo, Pats - all of whom had in the past or are currently having similar problems.

Most people were wishing Drogs well last year in their European run (despite the extent of their problems at the time) and yet are hoping that Bohs will be crushed (which we probably will anyway) just so we're taught a lesson. I just dont get it.

Im not going to lose any sleep over it but i thought that, when push came to shove, decency and goodwill would prevail in this forum but it appears not. Maybe Bohs have used up all of ours.

pineapple stu

13/07/2009, 3:32 PM

bar Pineapple Stu who at least is consistent in his disdain for all overspending clubs
Thank you. :)

Although in my defence, I do support any Irish clubs in Europe. Although that doesn't mean I won't have a good chuckle if they get hammered.

(Also, I think they days of watching the league's co-efficient go up and up are over...)

BohDiddley

13/07/2009, 3:59 PM

what gets me is, bar Pineapple Stu who at least is consistent in his disdain for all overspending clubs, the complete difference in vitriol for Bohs on one hand and the rest of the clubs who have/had similar problems on the other.

I'd differ with you there. Until Pineapple Stu's club opens its accounts for scrutiny and we can dissect all expenses and overheads, he and his fellow UCD fans have the least legitimacy in poring over ours.

It's easy to bump 'sensibly' along the bottom when you know an institutional safety net will save you from oblivion. By and large, people are polite enough not to bring up UCD's special nature, but part of this contract is that they spare us the sanctimonious accountant-speak in return.

SkStu

13/07/2009, 4:05 PM

yeah but my point being that, irrespective of who he follows or how annoying his posts may (or may not) be, as a poster he treats all clubs with consistency in his quest for integrity, answers and the truth.... ;)

Unlike, say, the Dundalk, Waterford and certain other fans who have posted here just to have a pop at us.

Anyway, the Pineapple reference was a minor and irrelevant part of my original post.

thischarmingman

13/07/2009, 4:24 PM

(Also, I think they days of watching the league's co-efficient go up and up are over...)

My, but they were short days!

Ezeikial

13/07/2009, 5:11 PM

Surely from a selfish (coefficient) point of view we should all be wishing our European competitors well. To hope they get humped is extremely small time.

Do you really believe that a minor contribution to the coefficient is of much practical assistance to the future of League of Ireland football?

If the price for this is that Bohs miraclously get under the 65% limit, and thus gives encouragement and justifcation for further recklessness by Bohs and others, then this is a price far too high to pay. Its not a small time view, its simply the (very obvious) bigger picture.

p�l-dcfc

13/07/2009, 5:12 PM

...is there a defined protocol...

Dream on.

ger121

13/07/2009, 5:15 PM

[QUOTE=SkStu;1190926]thanks.

what gets me is, bar Pineapple Stu who at least is consistent in his disdain for all overspending clubs, the complete difference in vitriol for Bohs on one hand and the rest of the clubs who have/had similar problems on the other. Maybe im wrong but i just dont see the same level of contempt towards Drogs, Cork, Derry, Shams, Sligo, Pats - all of whom had in the past or are currently having similar problems.QUOTE]

One reason, everyone wants to knock you when you're on top, it's the Irish way!!

BohDiddley

13/07/2009, 5:32 PM

(LOL at all the Bohs fans thanking each other BTW)
I think this is a fine practice and should be strongly encouraged.

RiffRaff

13/07/2009, 6:24 PM

I'm not a Bohs fan but I will certainly be rooting for them (and Derry and Pats) in Europe and good luck to them if they get enough games in Europe for the gamble to pay off. This is almost certainly our last season with full time teams and we'll soon be back to hoping our teams lose by less than 4 goals on aggregate, sadly.

dcfcsteve

13/07/2009, 9:30 PM

No one expects you to get it steve

I can just picture you having to hold your sides with every post you read. :o

Foot.ie's answer to Fr Dougal.

John83

13/07/2009, 10:16 PM

I can just picture you having to hold your sides with every post you read. :o

Foot.ie's answer to Fr Dougal.
Ah, DCFC Steve, foot.ie's answer to Father Austin Purcell.

dcfcsteve

14/07/2009, 1:43 AM

Ah, DCFC Steve, foot.ie's answer to Father Austin Purcell.

And John 83. Foot.ie's answer to, well - absolutely nothing......!

:D

CMcC

14/07/2009, 8:38 AM

Do you really believe that a minor contribution to the coefficient is of much practical assistance to the future of League of Ireland football?

If the price for this is that Bohs miraclously get under the 65% limit, and thus gives encouragement and justifcation for further recklessness by Bohs and others, then this is a price far too high to pay. Its not a small time view, its simply the (very obvious) bigger picture.

Watch yourself there - its a long way down off that high horse of yours.

If Bohs dont go about their business in the right way then sooner or later they will get found out - either by the FAI or the banks. That is inevitable.

Others may be better served concentrating on their own club's issues than devoting the amount of time some do, jerking off over how Bohs run theirs and worrying if they get punished or not.

Salivating in the hope that the country's representative in Europe's premier football competition get a doing, in the hope that they get relegated or go out of business IS small time. If you cant see that then you are even more small time that I thought.

For the record I hope they win, and I hope Derry and Pats do likewise. Speaking of the bigger picture - those 3 teams progressing would do more for the league than the hope of having a club with a 120 year history dissappearing off the map. And that is not only about coefficient ratings.

Ezeikial

14/07/2009, 10:48 AM

Watch yourself there - its a long way down off that high horse of yours.

If Bohs dont go about their business in the right way then sooner or later they will get found out - either by the FAI or the banks. That is inevitable.

Others may be better served concentrating on their own club's issues than devoting the amount of time some do, jerking off over how Bohs run theirs and worrying if they get punished or not.

Salivating in the hope that the country's representative in Europe's premier football competition get a doing, in the hope that they get relegated or go out of business IS small time. If you cant see that then you are even more small time that I thought.

For the record I hope they win, and I hope Derry and Pats do likewise. Speaking of the bigger picture - those 3 teams progressing would do more for the league than the hope of having a club with a 120 year history dissappearing off the map. And that is not only about coefficient ratings.

High Horses, jerking off, salivating, ....cool imagery!

You still miss my point (maybe intentionally, 'cause thats more fun!) - I don't wish for Bohs to go out of business, or disappear off the map, but I do want the FAI to apply the sanctions if they are found to have cheated.

I too hope Derry and Pats win, and I will be at Richmond to cheer on the Pats.

Dalymountrower

14/07/2009, 11:00 AM

.

I will be at Richmond to cheer on the Pats.

I am sure "the Pats" will be delighted to get your support as will "the Derry".

mcgonigle

14/07/2009, 11:01 AM

Watch yourself there - its a long way down off that high horse of yours.

If Bohs dont go about their business in the right way then sooner or later they will get found out - either by the FAI or the banks. That is inevitable.

Others may be better served concentrating on their own club's issues than devoting the amount of time some do, jerking off over how Bohs run theirs and worrying if they get punished or not.

Salivating in the hope that the country's representative in Europe's premier football competition get a doing, in the hope that they get relegated or go out of business IS small time. If you cant see that then you are even more small time that I thought.

For the record I hope they win, and I hope Derry and Pats do likewise. Speaking of the bigger picture - those 3 teams progressing would do more for the league than the hope of having a club with a 120 year history dissappearing off the map. And that is not only about coefficient ratings.

They are found out, every Tom, Dick and Harry in this country knows they don't go about their business in the right way, people are annoyed that nothing seems to be done about it and not because it Bohs but because it's a club making a mockery out of the league.

And if the shoe was on the other foot you would have every Bohs, Sligo, Drogs etc fan on here salivating from high horses or whatever it was you were saying there.

At the end of the day every LOI fan wants to see LOI teams do well in Europe but they also want to see the ones who constantly break the rules punished appropriately and from the way Bohs have gone about their business, the only fair punishment is relegation just like Shels got. But I do hope they survive and come back for the few good Bohs fans that I know

placid casual

14/07/2009, 11:35 AM

I hope they get f***in hammered.
Then again thats what rivalry is all about is it not.

Bohs wont go out of business like cork (and now derry apprently?!) but a spell in the discover ireland league will do them the world of good.

CMcC

14/07/2009, 12:22 PM

[You still miss my point (maybe intentionally, 'cause thats more fun!) - I don't wish for Bohs to go out of business, or disappear off the map, but I do want the FAI to apply the sanctions if they are found to have cheated.

[/QUOTE]

Fine so. Wait till November and then have your moan if they are proved to be over 65% and they dont get relegated. Dont see the point in having a rant about something that may or may not happen and wether the punishment does or does not get applied if it does happen !!

Dodge

14/07/2009, 12:36 PM

I am sure "the Pats" will be delighted to get your support as will "the Derry".

yes we will. He pays his money... he can call us what he likes..

CMcC

14/07/2009, 12:38 PM

They are found out, every Tom, Dick and Harry in this country knows they don't go about their business in the right way, people are annoyed that nothing seems to be done about it and not because it Bohs but because it's a club making a mockery out of the league.

And if the shoe was on the other foot you would have every Bohs, Sligo, Drogs etc fan on here salivating from high horses or whatever it was you were saying there.

At the end of the day every LOI fan wants to see LOI teams do well in Europe but they also want to see the ones who constantly break the rules punished appropriately and from the way Bohs have gone about their business, the only fair punishment is relegation just like Shels got. But I do hope they survive and come back for the few good Bohs fans that I know

Thats fair but they are not in breach of any rules currently are they? Maybe I am missing someting fundamental (and excuse my ignorance if I am - I am not very close to all this.)
My understanding is that they have till the end of November to get their salary expenditure under the 65% mark. They are currently over it, as other clubs were during last season, but they need to take remedial action to either reduce their wages or increase income. Provided they do one, other or both of these and get on or under 65% then I assume they broke no rules and do not have any action taken against them by the FAI. If they cant to it then they will get their punishment (relegation as stated and much deserved too). But people saying they hope they get beaten in Europe, as punishment for not actually being in breach of the rule but possibly being in breach of the rules in a few months time I just dont see it. If they are as close to being really fecked up as having to rely on a match against RedBull to survive I think the penny will have dropped with the new board if not already and action will be taken by the club. If it doesnt then I dont see the FAI bottling this one.

pineapple stu

14/07/2009, 12:40 PM

Thats fair but they are not in breach of any rules currently are they?
I think people are also sick of ineffective rules like the one which says nothing can be done until the end of the season.

Dalymountrower

14/07/2009, 1:48 PM

I hope they get f***in hammered.
Then again thats what rivalry is all about is it not.

Yep, thats allowed. Its the wannabe rivals who are getting unduly worked up that leave me perplexed.
ps ...hate you too:p

CMcC

14/07/2009, 1:53 PM

I think people are also sick of ineffective rules like the one which says nothing can be done until the end of the season.

Agreed. And I think thats were a lot of the frustration is coming from but thats not Bohs fault.

A major overhaul of the rule must be looked at. I mean is it appropriate to be over 65% for most of the season, then either reduce a load of salaries, release a load of players or get the begging bowl out to get in under 65% come November. I would argue that its not the way you want to be running things BUT that is the way the FAI structured the rule and the that is the way clubs (yes clubs, not just Bohs) will try to be complient.

Ezeikial

14/07/2009, 2:04 PM

Thats fair but they are not in breach of any rules currently are they? Maybe I am missing someting fundamental (and excuse my ignorance if I am - I am not very close to all this.)
My understanding is that they have till the end of November to get their salary expenditure under the 65% mark. They are currently over it, as other clubs were during last season, but they need to take remedial action to either reduce their wages or increase income. Provided they do one, other or both of these and get on or under 65% then I assume they broke no rules and do not have any action taken against them by the FAI. If they cant to it then they will get their punishment (relegation as stated and much deserved too). But people saying they hope they get beaten in Europe, as punishment for not actually being in breach of the rule but possibly being in breach of the rules in a few months time I just dont see it. If they are as close to being really fecked up as having to rely on a match against RedBull to survive I think the penny will have dropped with the new board if not already and action will be taken by the club. If it doesnt then I dont see the FAI bottling this one.

Look - it's not a case that the breach of the rules magically occurs in November - its simply assessed and ruled on then. It's a season long issue, and the crucial time is in pre-season budgeting.

The club demonstrated breathtaking financial incompetence, recklessness and perhaps a complete distain for the integrity of the league and the 65% cap, then and since. Signing Ndo, Keegan and Shelley when they were clearly in the financial mire; and still it continues....July window opens and the wage bill is increased!

BohDiddley

14/07/2009, 2:10 PM

Thats fair but they are not in breach of any rules currently are they? Maybe I am missing someting fundamental (and excuse my ignorance if I am - I am not very close to all this.)

A breath of fresh air. What a change from the usual crew of wizened cynics who can't see the wood for the trees and who hang around like vultures whenever there's a whiff of a club in trouble.

SkStu

14/07/2009, 2:28 PM

Look - it's not a case that the breach of the rules magically occurs in November - its simply assessed and ruled on then. It's a season long issue, and the crucial time is in pre-season budgeting.

The club demonstrated breathtaking financial incompetence, recklessness and perhaps a complete distain for the integrity of the league and the 65% cap, then and since. Signing Ndo, Keegan and Shelley when they were clearly in the financial mire; and still it continues....July window opens and the wage bill is increased!

where is your outrage in the Cork and new Derry thread? Seriously, the bee in your bonnet over Bohs is almost funny at this stage.

And you still cant distinguish between the board that ran Bohs into this alley and the new board that is starting to lead us out of the mire.

Recalling a junior player that has gained valuable experience out on loan is hardly increasing the wage bill, especially when the loan deal to Shels hadnt been finalised when our budget was submitted at the beginning of the season.

Ndo, Keegan and Shelley were signed on less than e1000 per week after dumping Kalonas, O'Donnell, Burns, Singh, McGinlay, Thomas Heary (amongst others) and the retirement of Kevin Hunt. Four of those six players would have been in the top top bracket of earners at the club.

Now im not saying any of the above is ideal nor should it be praised but what it does help illustrate is the absolute gack that you consistently try and post as fact. It shows that your grasp of the Bohs situation is non existent and you are more interested in posting ill informed, overdramatic soundbites aimed at one club than genuinely caring about the myriad of problems throughout the league.

CMcC

14/07/2009, 3:46 PM

Look - it's not a case that the breach of the rules magically occurs in November - its simply assessed and ruled on then. It's a season long issue, and the crucial time is in pre-season budgeting.

The club demonstrated breathtaking financial incompetence, recklessness and perhaps a complete distain for the integrity of the league and the 65% cap, then and since. Signing Ndo, Keegan and Shelley when they were clearly in the financial mire; and still it continues....July window opens and the wage bill is increased!

Ah, but from my (very limited) understanding it appears that it actually is. Because the way the rule has been set up by the FAI and implemented by them, it only matters ultimately if you are over 65% come the end of November. You could be over every month of the season but if by the end of Nov you somehow manage be under you have (according to the FAI's own rules) done nothing wrong.

I dont actually agree with this way of running it, but that is actually what the rule means and fosters in practise. The FAI need to change how the rule is implemented and maybe by bringing in checkpoints at various parts of the season (with say points deductions) they may ensure that clubs are consistently under 65%. But as it stands Bohs have not broken any of the FAI's own rules.

wexfordned

14/07/2009, 4:10 PM

sonofstan

14/07/2009, 4:25 PM

They are found out, every Tom, Dick and Harry in this country knows they don't go about their business in the right way,

Tom, Dick and most of Harry don't even know who Bohs are - I had to explain to a guy in work today that we have football teams in this country....

PartySaint

14/07/2009, 4:37 PM

Ndo, Keegan and Shelley were signed on less than e1000
.

I could well be wrong but i dont believe for a second that Ndo is getting under e1000 a week

Mr A

14/07/2009, 4:38 PM

If they're on relatively small money what must some of the other guys be on for the average to be 72k a year!

SkStu

14/07/2009, 4:42 PM

I could well be wrong but i dont believe for a second that Ndo is getting under e1000 a week

you could be right. Ndo could be making more than that but there were rumours at the time of performance related bonuses being a big part of his contract. Im not saying thats gospel but its what im led to believe.

On reading that further i should have said originally that at that time we had an agreement with other clubs (Cork, Derry??) not to pay more than e1000 per week to players.

Either way, its a small part of a larger post and i dont want to get sidetracked on this issue. Either way, notwithstanding the point of my original post, he's still making too much money.

Ezeikial

14/07/2009, 5:25 PM

[QUOTE=SkStu;1191560]

And you still cant distinguish between the board that ran Bohs into this alley and the new board.........
QUOTE]

Gerry sure stills looks the same, sounds the same ..........

Bohs' general secretary, Gerry Conway...."I have 100pc faith that we will not be in breach of the Protocol.. .

[QUOTE=SkStu;1191560]

....... new board that is starting to lead us out of the mire.
QUOTE]

What are these stratagies, other then "spin that roulette wheel a bit harder"?

[QUOTE=SkStu;1191560]
Recalling a junior player that has gained valuable experience out on loan is hardly increasing the wage bill, especially when the loan deal to Shels hadnt been finalised when our budget was submitted at the beginning of the season.
QUOTE]

okay, okay you got me - sure the wage bill is going down rapidly! Celtic are paying Carey, Shels are paying Madden,.....

Now im not saying any of the above is ideal nor should it be praised

Enough of the gags!

It shows that your grasp of the Bohs situation is non existent and you are more interested in posting ill informed, overdramatic soundbites

Educate me please - I really would love to know how the "Bohs situation" is anything other then complete and utter mismanagement and recklessness.

SkStu

14/07/2009, 5:40 PM

A lot of soundbites and very little substance. Am i surprised? Not a bit. You're just a winder upper and a stupid head.

mcgonigle

14/07/2009, 8:06 PM

A lot of soundbites and very little substance. Am i surprised? Not a bit. You're just a winder upper.

Don't forget a stupid head :o

SkStu

14/07/2009, 8:32 PM

Don't forget a stupid head :o

done. Thanks for the reminder... ;)

mcgonigle

15/07/2009, 9:06 AM

done. Thanks for the reminder... ;)

:D see we can be amicable!

SunderlandBohs

15/07/2009, 11:51 AM

Ezeikial

15/07/2009, 2:15 PM

What kind of muppets have we got running our club?

Well it seems someone who can't do maths for a start! We took the gamble of trying to break Europe to clear our debts. I'm sorry thats a stupid idea. It's like saying 'I'm in massive debt to my bank i.e car loans, mortgage ect. and I'm struggling to pay them. Wait I've an idea to pay of some of the money. I'll keep spending and hope I can win the lotto. If I keep buying tickets I'll surely win'. this is why I stopped been a member. The boards and some fans aggorance towards all of this really boils my pi$$!

I hope and pray that next season we still have a club to support.

SunderlandBohs, I genuinely salute you for being brave enough to post your views here, and risk the inevitable vitirol that will follow from other Bohs fans.

If sufficient other members were brave enough to stand up and be counted during the period when this megalomania was being hatched, this proud old club would not be facing the current abyss.

The arrogance, denial, and delusions of many fans and certainly some of current board does nothing for the club, and certainly alientates many who would otherwise have a lot of empathy for the clubs plight.

BohDiddley

15/07/2009, 2:24 PM

What kind of muppets have we got running our club?

Well it seems someone who can't do maths for a start! We took the gamble of trying to break Europe to clear our debts. I'm sorry thats a stupid idea. It's like saying 'I'm in massive debt to my bank i.e car loans, mortgage ect. and I'm struggling to pay them. Wait I've an idea to pay of some of the money. I'll keep spending and hope I can win the lotto. If I keep buying tickets I'll surely win'. this is why I stopped been a member. The boards and some fans aggorance towards all of this really boils my pi$$!

Q: Where has all the protest gone?
A: It's on the internet.

If you and just a few others in your position hadn't stopped being members and had voted at the AGM you could have helped change the board much more substantially than has been achieved.

As it is, a large part of the new board is from the reform group and is promoting a progressive agenda to get the club back on a rational footing. Damning them all isn't going to help.

Ezeikial

15/07/2009, 2:31 PM

As it is, a large part of the new board is from the reform group and is promoting a progressive agenda to get the club back on a rational footing. Damning them all isn't going to help.

Promoting a progressive agenda all sounds fine and dandy, but what action are they taking?

Is there any reduction in wage costs being implemented?

The cases of Carey and Madden indicate that there is not