Dave Rogers Sacked

[Ezeikial]

Is the new morality confined to Dundalk paying customers ? is it okay as long as the infringement is against away fans ?



Is it OK in Dundalk to slag off paying customers as long as they are away fans ?




St Pats fans or club were not offended by Rogers act (as has been made clear by posters here) Dundalk decided to be offended for them....


This is contradictory - You ask about "infringments" and a "slag off" towards away fans, suggesting that Dundalk regard this as "ok" (despite the offender being dismissed) and then suggest that these same fans were not offended!


quote=marinobohs;1176133] ....as delusional as your clubs expectations since joining the big league (in the "last few years" while bohs board were "losing sense of reality" remember where Dundalk were :)) Enjoy your one season in the Prem.[/quote]


been around a lot longer than Dundalk and expect to be around a lot longer in future.


I am very painfully aware of where Dundalk have been this last seven years, and the clubs stated goal is to retain premier status this year. You may not want to grasp the reality that Bohemians may well be in first division graveyard next season. I don't wish that on such a famous old club, but will shed no tears for either the incompetent club management or for the arrogant and deluded among its many supporters, should this come to pass.


we after all are not the club hiking up prices and sacking players.:)

Sacking managers has been Bohemians (expensive) speciality!

[eelmonster]

been around a lot longer than Dundalk and expect to be around a lot longer in future.

13 years is hardly 'a lot longer'. I'm sure if you continue to sell your ground every year and reach the group stages in Europe you'll be around forever.

[mcgonigle]

Most clubs have initiatives to attract support in the current economic situation. Cork had free admission, Pats gave Cadburys creme eggs, kids go free etc etc. Bohs REDUCED the price for some games (cat B) while maintaining the price for some higher profile games (cat A). If you cannot see the difference between this approach and INCREASING prices (Ala Dundalk) I suggest you lie down and stop making a fool of yourself on this forum :)

:D

You're a laugh a minute marinobohs, Dundalk's initiative was to keep prices the same as last season, this did not have the desired effect so they raised prices but kept them as the LOWEST in the prem and it has not affected our attendances that much at all.

Now if you cannot see the difference between a club taking action (Dundalk) before any money problems arise and a club burying its head in the sand to ignore its serious money issues (bohs) then I suggest you lie down but carry on making a fool of yourself on this forum because it is entertaining.

[WoodquayBoy]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. You're sitting arguing over labour law. It's complicated business. None of us are in the position to speculate, let alone definitively state what the outcome of any case would be, particularly when it could rest on something as difficult to define as "damage to reputation".
Fair enough, sorry. I am not an expert on employment law, and don't claim to be, but rather I was just offering my (essentially worthless, legally-speaking) opinion on what happened.

[Black and White]

SO you think he badly wanted to show Pats fans his arse?

You still not get my line of questiong?

Well he must have seen as though he didnt do it at Tolka earlier in the season or above in the Brandywell?!But yet he does it to ye!

[Black and White]

so it IS ok to do it just as long as you wait until after the final whistle ? And for the record I think (at least) some of us were debating what a buch of hpocritical ****s the board at Dundalk are and not McGuinness.

I dont condone any sort of bloody behaviour either before during or after, hes a full time player and should bloody act as one but if he so badly wanted attention or to get back at Pats fans or whatever his reasoning for it maybe then he should have bloody waited til after the game when he would'nt be caught. I would like to point out again to those clowns who cant read that I am not saying that its ok for him to do it any time, what Im saying is if he wanted so abdly to do it, do it in his own time that isnt going to cost the club a game etc!

[Réiteoir]

I dont condone any sort of bloody behaviour either before during or after, hes a full time player and should bloody act as one but if he so badly wanted attention or to get back at Pats fans or whatever his reasoning for it maybe then he should have bloody waited til after the game when he would'nt be caught. I would like to point out again to those clowns who cant read that I am not saying that its ok for him to do it any time, what Im saying is if he wanted so abdly to do it, do it in his own time that isnt going to cost the club a game etc!

Woah - DMY fella, DMY

[Ezeikial]

Woah - DMY fella, DMY

Wow - what a superb and well-reasoned addition to this debate - I take my imaginary hat off to you sir for such an outstanding well-made point

[Black and White]

Woah - DMY fella, DMY

What value has that brought to this debate?or was it you just wanted attention. This site is getting ridiculous at times with really "well thought out" and sophisticated comments like above!:mad:

[Dunny]

Jaysus mate calm down....

[shep]

Hearing set for July 16th

[marinobohs]

Hearing set for July 16th

neat dress essential or just shorts ?:)

[marinobohs]

:D


Now if you cannot see the difference between a club taking action (Dundalk) before any money problems arise and a club burying its head in the sand to ignore its serious money issues (bohs) then I suggest you lie down but carry on making a fool of yourself on this forum because it is entertaining.

the facts remain Bohs are REDUCING prices for some home matches (cat B games) wheras Dundalk are INCREASING prices for home games. Hopefully some one at Dundalk will understand this hugely complex economioc equation (lie down if necessary) and we can all get back to the disgraceful sacking of a Dundalk employee (the thread title gives a hint).

[pól-dcfc]

the facts remain Bohs are REDUCING prices for some home matches (cat B games) wheras Dundalk are INCREASING prices for home games. Hopefully some one at Dundalk will understand this hugely complex economioc equation (lie down if necessary) and we can all get back to the disgraceful sacking of a Dundalk employee (the thread title gives a hint).

You've a real hard-on for Dundalk at the moment.

[jinxy lilywhite]

the facts remain Bohs are REDUCING prices for some home matches (cat B games) wheras Dundalk are INCREASING prices for home games. Hopefully some one at Dundalk will understand this hugely complex economioc equation (lie down if necessary) and we can all get back to the disgraceful sacking of a Dundalk employee (the thread title gives a hint).

dude I think you are seriously deluded. We started the season off as the club in the premier league that had the lowest prices to see a game in the league. €10 in to the Ground and €15 into the stand. Now admittedly I was suprised when they announced that they would not increase their price at the beginning of this season because we where seeing a better class of opposition.
Into the season the club ask supporters for ideas on fundraising because of fears of a projected shortfall. Now a good proprtion of supporters advised the club that a raise in prices to a normal level across the league and that the board where seriously undervaluing the product that we where selling. The club raised the prices of the games to a level that is somewhat similar to every other club in the league. The increase in prices has no effect on our attendence and has been generally accepted by the vast majority of supporters.

i have tried to dumb this down for you bohs fans as best i can but i do think you are not seeing the bigger picture here. So you go on now and look after the mess that your board are putting your club in

btw D Rogers termination of employment was in no way digraceful. you'd expect at his age that he'd know better. Fully confident that dundalk fc will be absolved of all fault in this matter.

[Dodge]

He's in no way deluded. He simply stated that Dundalk have increased some prices, and Bohs have decreased some prices. These are facts

The justification of these movements can be argued but the facts speak for themselves

[marinobohs]

He's in no way deluded. He simply stated that Dundalk have increased some prices, and Bohs have decreased some prices. These are facts

The justification of these movements can be argued but the facts speak for themselves

the facts are obviously behond the comprehension of some Dundalk contributors. nobody claimed they were cheaper/dearer or anything else. I simply stated that Bohs had DECREASED prices and Dundalk had INCREASED prices. These are facts but like so many other facts (fair procedure etc) it appears easier for some to ignore them.

[Ezeikial]

the facts remain Bohs are REDUCING prices for some home matches (cat B games) wheras Dundalk are INCREASING prices for home games. Hopefully some one at Dundalk will understand this hugely complex economioc equation (lie down if necessary) and we can all get back to the disgraceful sacking of a Dundalk employee (the thread title gives a hint).

You do a neat line in hypocrisy - you reply to a post thats 3 weeks old (that you orginally took off on a tangent), and then complain about it being off-topic!

[marinobohs]

You do a neat line in hypocrisy - you reply to a post thats 3 weeks old (that you orginally took off on a tangent), and then complain about it being off-topic!

Mea culpa ! Thought I was providing clarification on a point (RE admittance prices). I aknowledged that this was off topic and suggested going back ON topic. I don't think Dundalk can talk about hypocrisy given their recent action RE Rogers and inaction RE Connor (loved his rant about Bohs and racism - very classy) but hey they are new to the Premier and may have lost the run of themselves :)

[jinxy lilywhite]

Mea culpa ! Thought I was providing clarification on a point (RE admittance prices). I aknowledged that this was off topic and suggested going back ON topic. I don't think Dundalk can talk about hypocrisy given their recent action RE Rogers and inaction RE Connor (loved his rant about Bohs and racism - very classy) but hey they are new to the Premier and may have lost the run of themselves :)

Hypocrisy coming from a bohs fan eh. your team pose for photo displaying "give racism the red card" and "kick racism out of football", one of your players racially abuse an opponent and all he gets is a slap across the wrist and a 5 match ban. where is the zero tolerance??
Mr Rogers dropped his shorts, serious breach of gross misconduct and was duly punished by the board who took a stance unlike your club who only acted in the Mcguinness affair because it was in the public domain.

[SkStu]

Hypocrisy coming from a bohs fan eh. your team pose for photo displaying "give racism the red card" and "kick racism out of football", one of your players racially abuse an opponent and all he gets is a slap across the wrist and a 5 match ban. where is the zero tolerance??
Mr Rogers dropped his shorts, serious breach of gross misconduct and was duly punished by the board who took a stance unlike your club who only acted in the Mcguinness affair because it was in the public domain.

fair play to Dundalk for taking such an admirable stance against mooning. :rolleyes: And to do so without following applicable labour law procedures is even more admirable.

Fair play Dundalk, that'll learn those mooning b*stards! Scourge of our game!

[marinobohs]

Hypocrisy coming from a bohs fan eh. your team pose for photo displaying "give racism the red card" and "kick racism out of football", one of your players racially abuse an opponent and all he gets is a slap across the wrist and a 5 match ban. where is the zero tolerance??
Mr Rogers dropped his shorts, serious breach of gross misconduct and was duly punished by the board who took a stance unlike your club who only acted in the Mcguinness affair because it was in the public domain.

what do you suggest ? sack him ? public execution ? I can only suggest you never kicked a football if you attach such seriousness to comments made in the heat of a match (this is NOT IN ANY WAY to ever justify racist comments simply to apply some context).

Presumably your newly found zero tolerence wil be applied to managers making disrepectful remarks about the League Champions ? didn't think so.

By the way, Bohs and Pat Fenlon dealt with the issue in Sligo after the match was finished (and brought to Fenlons attention) while you may feel they dealt with it badly (matter of opinion) to suggest they did not deal with it is simply wrong.

The hypocricy displayed at Dundalk has been in the different attitude to the cases of two employees (Rogers and Connor).

[Ezeikial]

I can only suggest you never kicked a football if you attach such seriousness to comments made in the heat of a match (this is NOT IN ANY WAY to ever justify racist comments simply to apply some context).


It sure appears like a justification to me......




Presumably your newly found zero tolerence wil be applied to managers making disrepectful remarks about the League Champions ? didn't think so.

The hypocricy displayed at Dundalk has been in the different attitude to the cases of two employees (Rogers and Connor).

While I think that Sean Connor has been unwise, and in some cases foolish, in some of the comments he has made in Dundalk FC Magazine, this clearly does not equate to either racial abuse or Dave Rogers' madness.

What comment did you find "disrespectful"?

[SkStu]

was he even talking to you ezekial?

McGuinness apologised immediately afterward to Boco suggesting that it was a heat of the moment thing. Therefore what Marino is posting is a fair interpretation of what happened and therefore a reasonable deduction to make that McGuinness is not a cross burning, KKK member at weekends.

and another thing, its your fellow Dundalk supporters trying to score points by comparing the punishments meted out for racism on one hand and a player mooning on the other. Ridiculous.

[Ezeikial]

was he even talking to you ezekial?


I think he was posting his comment on a public forum, but maybe you know something I don't SkStu? :confused:




McGuinness apologised immediately afterward to Boco suggesting that it was a heat of the moment thing. Therefore what Marino is posting is a fair interpretation of what happened and therefore a reasonable deduction to make that McGuinness is not a cross burning, KKK member at weekends.


There is some similarities alright between Dave Rogers and Jason McGuinness. They both issued apologies of a sort, and I have no doubt that both regretted their actions.

The crucial difference is the disciplinary action taken by their respective clubs.

Dundalk was decisive and firm (even if the technical procedure is found to be flawed), while Bohs was a weak and token action


and another thing, its your fellow Dundalk supporters trying to score points by comparing the punishments meted out for racism on one hand and a player mooning on the other. Ridiculous.

I agree there is a lot of point scoring, but MarinoBohs sets out his stall that way, and it's inevitable that others (myself included) respond - perhaps ignoring this wind-up stuff would be the best option!

[SkStu]

I think he was posting his comment on a public forum, but maybe you know something I don't SkStu? :confused:

fair enough - though i probably know a lot that you dont... ;)


There is some similarities alright between Dave Rogers and Jason McGuinness. They both issued apologies of a sort, and I have no doubt that both regretted their actions.

The crucial difference is the disciplinary action taken by their respective clubs.

Dundalk was decisive and firm (even if the technical procedure is found to be flawed), while Bohs was a weak and token action

but they are totally different offences. One, it could be (and definitely will be)debated, is not even a sackable offence. The other is a major offence, though one that was apologised for and was addressed twice - once by the club and again by the League body who gathered the facts, accepted McGuinness' remorse and apology and deemed it worthy of a 5 match ban. I just think it is a pretty weak argument to try and compare the two beyond the point that both players were idiots.


I agree there is a lot of point scoring, but MarinoBohs sets out his stall that way, and it's inevitable that others (myself included) respond - perhaps ignoring this wind-up stuff would be the best option!

Maybe, but i dont think its any more WUMmery than you average poster here. Best to rise to the bait and see what happens in my opinion!! :D

[Ezeikial]

fair enough - though i probably know a lot that you dont... ;)


Might be true, but seems a really arrogant attitude!



but they are totally different offences. One, it could be (and definitely will be)debated, is not even a sackable offence. The other is a major offence, though one that was apologised for and was addressed twice - once by the club and again by the League body who gathered the facts, accepted McGuinness' remorse and apology and deemed it worthy of a 5 match ban. I just think it is a pretty weak argument to try and compare the two beyond the point that both players were idiots.


The contrast is in how both clubs reacted.

The five match ban you referred to, was the maximum sanction open to the league. Perhaps the "it's part of football, there's nothing you can do about it" attitude displayed by his manager was part of the reason why there was no mitigation given by the league.

Weather you agree or not with the severity of the sanction imposed by Dundalk, there is no doubt about the decisiveness.

Whatever about Dave Rogers' chances of a favourable ruling regarding the dismissal procedure, I suspect that he has little chance on the core issue of Gross Misconduct.

[SligoBrewer]

Is this still going on? Eugh.

[Celdrog]

Weather you agree or not with the severity of the sanction imposed by Dundalk, there is no doubt about the decisiveness.
What planet are you guys living on.:rolleyes:

Drop your togs for a second and its so abhorrent you get fired.

Bring Merrion square to a standstill, terrify FAI staff (including a heavily pregnant lady), cost the taxpayer countless (tens) thousands, get convicted for said offence, all in the name of Dundalk FC and you are given a fundraiser inside Oriel Park and hailed a hero, and never even chastised.

Never mind the decisiveness, where is the consistency?. If Maxi pulled his stunt in the last few weeks and had been earning a wage at Dundalk he would have been fired.

Connor dropping his togs before the league cup final a couple of years ago didn't stop Dundalk appointing him as manager, did it?

[Dunny]

Another moanfest.

Yawn.

[marinobohs]

What planet are you guys living on.:rolleyes:

Drop your togs for a second and its so abhorrent you get fired.

Bring Merrion square to a standstill, terrify FAI staff (including a heavily pregnant lady), cost the taxpayer countless (tens) thousands, get convicted for said offence, all in the name of Dundalk FC and you are given a fundraiser inside Oriel Park and hailed a hero, and never even chastised.

Never mind the decisiveness, where is the consistency?. If Maxi pulled his stunt in the last few weeks and had been earning a wage at Dundalk he would have been fired.

Connor dropping his togs before the league cup final a couple of years ago didn't stop Dundalk appointing him as manager, did it?

Celdrog don't even bother trying to show the inconsistency applied by dundalk -Maxi, Rogers, Connor - unfortunately contributors here are unable or unwilling to face the hypocrisy of the clubs reactions.

Apparently defending the undefendable is the Dundalk way, when it suits them ignore the offence and when it suits them "act decisevely". There is none so blind.........

[marinobohs]

Might be true, but seems a really arrogant attitude!





The five match ban you referred to, was the maximum sanction open to the league. Perhaps the "it's part of football, there's nothing you can do about it" attitude displayed by his manager was part of the reason why there was no mitigation given by the league.

Weather you agree or not with the severity of the sanction imposed by Dundalk, there is no doubt about the decisiveness.

.

I am glad that you recognise that McGuinness received the MAXIMUM sanction for his stupidity - what more could apply ? Bohs
and the player accepted the punishment (no appeal), again what do you expect as the MAXIMUM punishment was additional to a club ban and fine ? Nutsey apoligised to the player concerned and his manager and at no time sought to justify it - so much for his attitude.

Would at least agree that Dundalk action was "decisive" but then again so is the death penalty :)

[mcgonigle]

Is this still going on? Eugh.

Yes unfortunatly it is, I thought all that needed to be said was said three weeks ago when the thread went dead. Correctly it was brought back to life when a date for a hearing was set and posted by shep.

But unfortunatly MarinoBohs fascination with everything Dundalk got the better of him and he started talking rubbish again, completely off topic. I think he has a soft spot for us ;)

[micls]

Mr Rogers dropped his shorts, serious breach of gross misconduct and was duly punished by the board who took a stance unlike your club who only acted in the Mcguinness affair because it was in the public domain.



While I think that Sean Connor has been unwise this clearly does not equate to Dave Rogers' madness.


These comments might have more credence, if the same board hadn't hired a manager who himself thought it appropriate to drop his pants in the middle of a football stadium when his team were playing Derry last year.

Or doesnt it count because it was during the warm up rather than during the game?

If your board were that against 'mooning', they'd never have hired Connor.

[marinobohs]

But unfortunatly MarinoBohs fascination with everything Dundalk got the better of him and he started talking rubbish again, completely off topic. I think he has a soft spot for us ;)

I know an excellent swamp ;)

[mcgonigle]

I know an excellent swamp ;)

Ah thanks, now I feel obliged to compliment your future apartments but I'll wait until you're in the Champions League with millions in the bank

[Celdrog]

Celdrog don't even bother trying to show the inconsistency applied by dundalk But we've no match until Sunday, have to amuse myself somehow.

[mcgonigle]

But we've no match until Sunday, have to amuse myself somehow.

Just look at the league table until then, amuses me no end, have a good weekend :D

[Ezeikial]

Article in todays Dundalk Democrat identifies the "Disputes Resolution Committee" as the forum for the hearing scheduled for July 16.

Is anyone aware if this is within the Labour Court framework or is this an FAI committee?



DUNDALK DEMOCRAT 8 JULY 2009

Lisburn hopeful of signing Rogers
Lisburn Distillery manager Jimmy Brown remains "confident" in signing former Dundalk defender Dave Rogers.
Rogers is currently embroiled in a disciplinary dispute with the Lilywhites after being dismissed for baring his backside to St Patricks Athletic fans during a fixture in May.
Dundalk have accused Rogers of "gross misconduct" but the defender has appealed against the decision with a Disputes Resolution Committee to settle the case on July 16.
Whites boss Brown - who was previously technical assistant at Dundalk- is hoping the matter can be resolved to pave the way for Rogers' move to Ballyskeagh.
"Dave was at our Europa League game against FC Zestafoni, and he is committed to coming here on a permanent deal this summer. All I know is that Dave is an experiences, talented player, and I would love to see him at Distillery. He would be a big assest."

[John83]

Is anyone aware if this is within the Labour Court framework or is this an FAI committee?
FIFA have a body by that name, but it could be a labour court thing too.

[Dalymountrower]

FIFA have a body by that name, but it could be a labour court thing too.

No, nothing to do with the Labour Court, must be either an FAI gig or just lazy journalism.

[SkStu]

its different in every sector but usually a dispute resolution committee is a non-binding hearing aimed at resolving a dispute prior to an arbitration. It can be judicial in nature but its not always the case. It will likely just a frank discussion between representatives of both sides.

[Dodge]

Dispute resolution committee sounds vaguely GAAish to me

I'm guessing lazy journalism

[Longfordian]

No it's some kind of FAI interrogation/torture chamber. We were up in front of it with Stephen Paisley a few years ago.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Ex-Dundalk defender Dave Rogers has won a case against his former club who dismissed him following an incident during a league game against St Patrick's Athletic.

MORE (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/0729/dundalk.html)

[Ezeikial]

There does not appear to be an indication of the financial compensation awarded to Rogers - I trust he has done better then Albert Reynolds in his libel victory over the Times!

From what I hear Dundalk FC are not entirely dissatisfied with the award, and intend to adhere to this non-binding recommendation. I have heard it described as the most cost-effective player "transfer" this season.

I can't help but laugh at Stephen McGuinness pontificating about clubs treating their players with disrespect in the light of Rogers' actions.


Statement on PFAI website:
http://www.pfai.ie/index.php?mod=one&id=17164&PHPSESSID=4ee36ab413858165a3fdd3326940a68a

[Dodge]

I can't help but laugh at Stephen McGuinness pontificating


You must know how McGuinness feels after your pontificating on this and other matters

[Celdrog]

not entirely dissatisfiedSo, that means they are somewhat dissatisfied or even not fully satisfied with the outcome.

Will all the Dundalk fans now acknowledge what the rest of us said, in that Dundalk were in the wrong to sack him and that legally, it was not gross misconduct?

[WindmillWarrior]

5 figure sum according to Daniel McD on Off the Ball

[Mr A]

Between that and the Barca game being off it hasn't been a brilliant week for DFC.