Dave Rogers Sacked

[Rovers1]

Think this is one and the same. Allegedly the day of LC final on the Brandy pitch during a training session if you believe the stories.

Thought it was a training session at Bohs training ground, when they were practising penalties a few days before the LC final? Beside a school yard too! :o

[sligoman]

It was pre-match at the Brandywell from what I heard.

Regarding Rogers, he's meeting with the PFAI today about his 'unfair dismissal' according to the paper.

[Ezeikial]

Thought it was a training session at Bohs training ground, when they were practising penalties a few days before the LC final? Beside a school yard too! :o

I heard it was in the grounds of a convent. Beside a orphanage too!

[soccerc]

Rogers' Press Statement

Following the statement made by my employers Dundalk Football Club on Saturday 23 May, I confirm that I was involved in an incident during a match against St Patrick's Athletic the previous night.

As a former player of St Patrick's Athletic, a club I left on good terms, I was engaged in some good-natured banter with some of the fans, many of whom I know from my time at the club. In response to some light-hearted jibes from some of these fans, I briefly lowered my shorts in what I considered to be an amusing gesture. The fans reacted in a similar manner and took no offence, to the best of my knowledge. A referee's assistant who saw the incident reported it to the referee who gave me a straight red card.

With the benefit of hindsight, I can now see that what I did was unwise. I accept that the red card was fully justified and I am personally disappointed that I let the team, the fans and my manager down in such an important match.

However, what has followed since from my employers, is in my view, completely unacceptable from both a footballing and human perspective.
No-one from the club has ever sought my version of events, given me an opportunity to state my case or even had the courtesy to personally inform me of my dismissal. They have clearly contravened FAI rules and the relevant employment laws.

While I accept that my actions were unhelpful to my team, I do not believe that they were offensive and, by no stretch of the imagination, could they be described as serious misconduct such as to justify my dismissal.

I would have expected Dundalk at a minimum to treat me in a fair and reasonable manner, but I feel that I have been hung out to dry by my employers and I am bitterly disappointed.

[SMorgan]

Dave Rogers Statement.

http://www.dundalkdemocrat.ie/dundalknews/Rogers-releases-statement.5300317.jp

[LukeO]

You are really gullible if you think there is even the remotest possibility of there being a shred of truth in this Kyle Moran yarn.

This is Sean Connor we're talking about.......

[LukeO]

Thought it was a training session at Bohs training ground, when they were practising penalties a few days before the LC final? Beside a school yard too! :o

That's what I thought too.

[Réiteoir]

No-one from the club has ever sought my version of events, given me an opportunity to state my case or even had the courtesy to personally inform me of my dismissal

Disgraceful if true.

Rico abslutely spot on tonight on MNS about this - seems to be a wholly cynical attempt to try to lessen the wage bill

[NeilMcD]

Damien Richardson mentions 6 inches there on MNS, How could he see from the stand :)

[Dunny]

Would you ever ***** off Rico, Eoin Hand made a great point about the kids and parents at the game, and crap like that would turn them off taking them back to another game.

[adamd164]

Dave Rogers Statement.

http://www.dundalkdemocrat.ie/dundalknews/Rogers-releases-statement.5300317.jp
He'll be suing anyway judging by that. Hope the board sought legal advice first.

[CSFShels]

Fair play Rico. And didn't really appreciate Hand's comments on what people would get away with at his clubs given how long its been since hes managed a club.

[CSFShels]

Would you ever ***** off Rico, Eoin Hand made a great point about the kids and parents at the game, and crap like that would turn them off taking them back to another game.
Two words, Michael Collins.

[Dunny]

Two words, Michael Collins.

Who??

[CSFShels]

Who??
Haha lets hope it stays that way. Seeing a little bit of a man's arse comes to nothing in comparison to some of the violent acts I've seen in this league.

[hoops1]

Would you ever ***** off Rico, Eoin Hand made a great point about the kids and parents at the game, and crap like that would turn them off taking them back to another game.

Would somebody think of the children :rolleyes:. When people bring their kids to a LOI match they are more worried about the kids being scarred by the **** matches than seen 1/4 of someones arse 40 yards away.

[tiktok]

Would you ever ***** off Rico, Eoin Hand made a great point about the kids and parents at the game, and crap like that would turn them off taking them back to another game.

Losing at home to a ten man St.Pat's side is sure to entice them back.
Rico was spot on and the whole "won't somebody think of the children" routine is comical.

[Réiteoir]

So then let's go over to George Dawes - and say "What are the scores, George Dawes?"

Racist Comment - 5 game ban, Club Fine

Showing a tiny bit of your arse - Instant Dismissal without telling the bloke first, possible burning at the stake or stoning


I'm wondering what'll happen next to top even that...

[eelmonster]

Losing at home to a ten man St.Pat's side is sure to entice them back.


Eh? It was Dundalk who went down to ten men, Rogers was sent off for flashing his arse, remember.

[John83]

No-one from the club has ever sought my version of events, given me an opportunity to state my case or even had the courtesy to personally inform me of my dismissalDisgraceful if true.

Rico abslutely spot on tonight on MNS about this - seems to be a wholly cynical attempt to try to lessen the wage bill
To be fair, I kind of doubt his version of events was ever going to sway their decision, whether you subscribe to the cynical cost-cutting theory or not.

That said, not informing him sounds lousy - unless he means his agent was informed by their solicitor or something, in which case he needs to grow up (more so).

Regardless, not calling him in to discuss it could be technically against some labour law, which might give him his day in court.

[tiktok]

Eh? It was Dundalk who went down to ten men, Rogers was sent off for flashing his arse, remember.

Yes it was, still, losing to St.Pat's at home is still rubbish, we should know.
I'll shut up now. :D

[Rovers Maniac]

To be fair, I kind of doubt his version of events was ever going to sway their decision, whether you subscribe to the cynical cost-cutting theory or not.

That said, not informing him sounds lousy - unless he means his agent was informed by their solicitor or something, in which case he needs to grow up (more so).

Regardless, not calling him in to discuss it could be technically against some labour law, which might give him his day in court.

Thats not the point you are entitled to it, you have to follow protocol when taking this type of action.

[John83]

Thats not the point you are entitled to it, you have to follow protocol when taking this type of action.
As I noted.

There are cases where that hearing being denied an employee is a terrible injustice, resulting in an unjustified sacking. This isn't one of them.

[Ezeikial]

I briefly lowered my shorts in what I considered to be an amusing gesture.

I have no doubt that is how Dave saw it, and I believe most (maybe even all) St Pats fans present thought it hilarious, and even more so when the red card transpired.


With the benefit of hindsight, I can now see that what I did was unwise.

This is a contender for the understatement of the year



I accept that the red card was fully justified and I am personally disappointed that I let the team, the fans and my manager down in such an important match.

Dave, you let us down very badly. You got yourself sent off, left us with 10 men, and you certainly seriously diminished our chances of 3 very important points.


While I accept that my actions were unhelpful to my team.......

This is getting worse......unhelpful? Are you serious or taking the **** out of us now?


I do not believe that they were offensive.........

Dave, your actions were enormously offensive to me and many other Dundalk fans; that you could do something so stupid to get yourself a red card. Have you any idea of the further damage that your actions have caused to the clubs worsening reputation as an indisciplined, uncaring, irresponsible team?


I am bitterly disappointed.

Me too Dave, me too.

[Dodge]

For the record most Pats fans didn't find it hilarious, just mildly amusing

Red card was hilarious, granted

[Rovers Maniac]

As I noted.

There are cases where that hearing being denied an employee is a terrible injustice, resulting in an unjustified sacking. This isn't one of them.

Rubbish talk, literally. You have no idea.

[Dunny]

For the record most Pats fans didn't find it hilarious, just mildly amusing

Red card was hilarious, granted

Do most of ye want him back?

[John83]

Rubbish talk, literally. You have no idea.
Curious. That's what your mom said.

I'd like to debate the point, but you haven't expressed one.

Perhaps you meant to say that an employee's right to have his say on an incident before being sacked is sacrosanct. I'd not argue it, beyond to say that I think it's a technicality here for which he'll get minor redress in court.

Perhaps you meant to say that you believe Rodgers's point of view might have actually held some weight in the decision. This I'd disagree with. On one hand, we have Rodgers mooning paying customers while in the uniform of his employer, costing them money (potentially, from many avenues), their good name (what's left of it), and simple embarrassment. On the other, you have him claiming, as he has to the press, that it was just banter. Given that these people have already considered the former to be a sackable offense, I'm pretty sure I know what they'd have thought of that defense.

Perhaps you meant to say that you believe that Rodgers actions are not sackable at all. I disagree, but considering my last point, I don't think it would have made any great difference regardless.

But you made none of those points, nor any others. You chose instead to call names, which says all I really need to know about you. And yes, I'll have fries with that.

[srfc1928]

As Rogers was sacked, is he allowed to sign for another club before July ?

[Ezeikial]

Rubbish talk, literally. You have no idea.

This type of dismissive post doesn't contribute anything, except perhaps as a display of ignorance by the poster.

Why do you think his post is "rubbish" or that he has "no idea"

Perhaps this link to Ctizens Advice section on 'Fair grounds for dismissal' might help you inform your opinion

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/unemployment-and-redundancy/dismissal/fair-grounds-for-dismissal



Gross misconduct may give rise to instant (summary) dismissal without notice or pay in lieu of notice. Examples of gross misconduct include assault, drunkenness, stealing, bullying or serious breach of your employer's policies and practices. Your contract of employment (http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/contracts-of-employment/contract_of_employment) may contain further information concerning gross misconduct.

[Dunny]

As Rogers was sacked, is he allowed to sign for another club before July ?

He's a free agent now afaik.

[John83]

As Rogers was sacked, is he allowed to sign for another club before July ?
Yes, providing they aren't under a transfer embargo for breach of the salary cost protocol.

[Ezeikial]

For the record most Pats fans didn't find it hilarious, just mildly amusing

Red card was hilarious, granted


Sorry Dodge, I didn't reckon on you being so humbug. I really must not veer into hyperbole in future!

[Dalymountrower]

John 83 states
"Perhaps you meant to say that an employee's right to have his say on an incident before being sacked is sacrosanct. I'd not argue it, beyond to say that I think it's a technicality here for which he'll get minor redress in court." ]

Two recent unfair dismissal cases where the dismissal was overturned with re-instatement and costs and damages where there were minor procedural defects in dimissing the employee
(a) A Health Care Professional striking an intellectually disabled patient across the face
(b) Leaving a central security post in a place of detention while on duty.

If Rogers statement is true he will win his case or Dundalk will settle. No doubt the PFAI will contrast this with Dundalks leniency in respect of Connor`s unprofessional behaviour in the first game of the season attempting to goad Bohs fans in the stand.(for which he got a four match ban).

[Black and White]

As Rogers was sacked, is he allowed to sign for another club before July ?

No Anto Flood was sacked by us 2 years ago for serious breach of contract and couldnt join shels til the window reopened, he did however trin with them for over a month so!

[Ezeikial]

No doubt the PFAI will contrast this with Dundalks leniency in respect of Connor`s unprofessional behaviour in the first game of the season attempting to goad Bohs fans in the stand.(for which he got a four match ban).

They could also contrasts Dundalks' swift and decisive action with Bohemians 1 week suspension for Jason McGuinness for racial abuse

[seand]

He's a free agent now afaik.

Pretty sure he's not, otherwise clubs could conveniently 'sack' players mid season to facilitate transfers and bypass the transfer window.

[CMcC]

As I noted.

There are cases where that hearing being denied an employee is a terrible injustice, resulting in an unjustified sacking. This isn't one of them.

Wether the sacking was justified or not may quickly become irrelevant if Dundalk didn't follow their processes correctly. Seems strange that there wasnt even a hearing (which would be practise even in a Gross Misconduct allegation or Summary Dismissal situation). On the face of it the player seems to have a valid case.
I think Dalymountrower above illustrated some recent cases that show this.
I assume he received confirmation in writing at this stage with the right to appeal noted.

This may cost Dundalk a right few bob.

[redgav]

Would you ever ***** off Rico, Eoin Hand made a great point about the kids and parents at the game, and crap like that would turn them off taking them back to another game.



Whats more damning for kids to see ,some fella dropping his kecks to flash a bit of arse (provided these kids had binoculors to see ) or some fella racially abusing a fellow professional ,and admitting to it.What message does that send out to kids...."errah its ok little seanie ,call that black fellah a m***** but dont show the cheeks of yer arse or i'll bate ye black and blue"

[seand]

Whats more damning for kids to see ,some fella dropping his kecks to flash a bit of arse (provided these kids had binoculors to see ) or some fella racially abusing a fellow professional ,and admitting to it.What message does that send out to kids...."errah its ok little seanie ,call that black fellah a m***** but dont show the cheeks of yer arse or i'll bate ye black and blue"

Dundalk didn't send out the message that racist abuse is ok though, Bohs did. (Sorry- Bohs didn't say its ok, they said its worth a one match ban.)

[KK77]

A nice excuse for Dundalk to get a wage off the bill

Thought the same thing myself.

[marinobohs]

[quote=Dalymountrower;1167124]John 83 states
"Perhaps you meant to say that an employee's right to have his say on an incident before being sacked is sacrosanct. I'd not argue it, beyond to say that I think it's a technicality here for which he'll get minor redress in court." ]

As someone who works in the Labour Law area I can assure all that the employee's right to defence is not sacrosanct (cases involving violence, serious misconduct etc can and do result in instant dismissal). It is however considered best practice to allow the employee a chance to defend his/her actions. Where the right to defence is bypassed the onus would be on the employer to prove why it was deemed necessary to do so. There is plenty of case law from the EAT and/or Labour Court to back up this analysis.

Were he to take a case under Contract Law (ie breach of contract by Dundalk) the club would, again, have to justify the decision to unilaterally terminate the contract.either way it seems to me that Dundalk will have a case to prove.

[disabledrog]

Oh so its ok for kids to see all the scumbag dundalk fans causing hassel after the matches home and away,lets be honest he showed a bit of his jocks end of ,its a money saving job by dundalk

[Ezeikial]

Oh so its ok for kids to see all the scumbag dundalk fans causing hassel after the matches home and away,lets be honest he showed a bit of his jocks end of ,its a money saving job by dundalk

Maybe I have missed some posts here - I was not aware that anyone had advocated that a hooligan element (be they from Drogheda, Dundalk or anywhere else) were "ok"!

[Rovers fan]

No Anto Flood was sacked by us 2 years ago for serious breach of contract and couldnt join shels til the window reopened, he did however trin with them for over a month so!

What did he do?

[Ezeikial]

Disgraceful if true.

Rico abslutely spot on tonight on MNS about this - seems to be a wholly cynical attempt to try to lessen the wage bill


Thought the same thing myself.


.....its a money saving job by dundalk

I find it funny (in a quirky sense) and ironic, that this line continues to be peddled (and maybe even believed by some).

While I think it improbable that there is any validity in this theory (see earlier post below, which has remained conspicously unchallenged), it is ironic that many supportors of clubs that urgently need to reduce their wage bills sieze on this as an evil.

Of course it would be wrong if this was a motivation in this case - but all the evidence points in a different direction





It is entirely predictable that many non-Dundalk fans on foot.ie would chose to see to see the actions of the Dundalk board in this way.

I suggest that it might be relevant to reflect on how those most affected, (aside from Dave Rogers himself) view it. Like any opinion forum Oriel Web refects various views, but those suggesting that the sacking was motivated by a wage bill cull are in a small minority.

While facts are not necessarily well received by those who enjoy conspiracy theories and negative slants, lets have a quick review:

1) Dundalk are not in any financial crises. The specifics have already been well documented here and elsewhere already.

2) If the club need to reduce wage costs that opportunity is naturally arising as 3 players are out of contract in June.

3) It is almost certain that the club will sign additional players in July.

4) Dave Rogers is actually one of the few who have performed well for the club this season. Dundalk are woefully short of defenders.

5) There is a sweeping assumption here that Dave Rogers will not have the balance of his contract paid up. This is a strong possibility, either as a result of negotiation or legal action. It is not plausible that a board with strong business experience, would not have considered this possibility in reaching its decision.

For what it is worth, I think that the sacking is harsh and an extreme reaction to the unacceptable levels of indiscipline that have been tolerated up to now. In that sense Dave Rogers is unfortunate, but is the author of his own misfortune.

The board have shown remarkable moral courage in their decision (whether you agree or disagree with it), and jibes about the moral character of players and other jibes are trite and miss the point.

[old git]

Hang on Dodge - are you claiming that players pulling moonies is a common occurence in senior league worlwide.......? :eek:

If only Drogheda had had the sense to do the same about 5yrs ago when one of their players took a **** on the edge of the Brandywell pitch iwhilst warming up.......

check page 45 of the sun newspaper today robbie blake of burnley mooning to fans after winning promotion to preimership wonder will burnley now sack him :D:D

[eelmonster]

check page 45 of the sun newspaper today robbie blake of burnley mooning to fans after winning promotion to preimership wonder will burnley now sack him :D:D

Did he whip his slogan-emblazoned sporty y-fronts down to reveal the crack of his arse? Was he flashing said arsehole at opposition fans? Was he sent off for doing so (was he even booked)? Have Burnley had four sendings off in their last four games? Were Burnley promoted to the League of Ireland? If the answer is yes to any of the above, I can see how your post is relative to Dave Rogers' sacking.

[Celdrog]

check page 45 of the sun newspaper today robbie blake of burnley mooning to fans after winning promotion to preimership wonder will burnley now sack him :D:DWith all the premiership money they'll now get, I don't think they are in the position of needing to trim the wage bill, so they probably won't sack him.

[Ezeikial]

With all the premiership money they'll now get, I don't think they are in the position of needing to trim the wage bill, so they probably won't sack him.

If Dave Rogers had been celebrating post match after clinching the title (or Europa League qualification) then I doubt if there would have been a major problem either.

He wasn't, and there is!