Dave Rogers Sacked

[Dodge]

What did he do for Keane when ye sacked him for being too fat?nothing cause he loves his beloved "Dublin" clubs.
Got him a 60k pay off actually, but continue to feel like you're being hard done by...

[Black and White]

Got him a 60k pay off actually, but continue to feel like you're being hard done by...

Didnt know that! my mistake. We actually are being hard done by and you cant deny it both on and off the pitch!

[CSFShels]

Didnt know that! my mistake. We actually are being hard done by and you cant deny it both on and off the pitch!
How? You sacked a player, with no warning, and didn't follow proper procedures, couldn't have, given how quickly it all happened, the board were kind of asking for the problems they'll now face.

[Black and White]

How? You sacked a player, with no warning, and didn't follow proper procedures, couldn't have, given how quickly it all happened, the board were kind of asking for the problems they'll now face.

Explain why he gets nothing if he joins Lisburn almost immediately?

[Dunny]

Hope he lines out for Distillery Tuesday. We can show him that new flag. Arsehole.:)

[Sam_Heggy]

Jeez, firstly everyone including God above is after Sean Connor, just because no-one likes him, then, McGuinness has the cheek to ask members of the PFAI to make a statement on their accounts of the saga. Disgraceful.

They are taking the proverbial now by having the cheek to ask for facts, its a witch hunt against Dundalk, Cork, Pats, Rovers, Shels, Derry, Harps, Monaghan, Athlone, Longford, Limerick, Galway, Cobh, Dublin City, Newcastle west, St Francis, Bohs, Wexford, Waterford, Bray, Kildare, Kilkenny, Drogheda, UCD, Sligo, Fingal and Mervue.

I think we should douse McGuinness in petrol until he just goes by what the club officials say and not listen to the players. I'll have a smigerette in my mouth so that's bound to scare him too.

[Black and White]

Jeez, firstly everyone including God above is after Sean Connor, just because no-one likes him, then, McGuinness has the cheek to ask members of the PFAI to make a statement on their accounts of the saga. Disgraceful.

They are taking the proverbial now by having the cheek to ask for facts, its a witch hunt against Dundalk, Cork, Pats, Rovers, Shels, Derry, Harps, Monaghan, Athlone, Longford, Limerick, Galway, Cobh, Dublin City, Newcastle west, St Francis, Bohs, Wexford, Waterford, Bray, Kildare, Kilkenny, Drogheda, UCD, Sligo, Fingal and Mervue.

I think we should douse McGuinness in petrol until he just goes by what the club officials say and not listen to the players. I'll have a smigerette in my mouth so that's bound to scare him too.

Nobody mentioned Sean Connor here so why bring that up?

And secondly, he didnt ask them for their account he asked them to give to him in writing a statement saying none of them are happy with whats going on.

[Ezeikial]

Word coming out of Oriel Park is that Stephen McGuinness wrote to every 1 of the Dundalk 1st team squad asking them to write to him and confirm that they are dissilushioned with the treatment of Rogers and that they are not happy with the current set up at Oriel park, he didnt get one response as according to a very good inside source, Rogers and another un-nmaed player are causing disruption at times during training sessions. McGuinness is a cheeky c!@t and deserves a slap, he has got it in for Dundalk FC ever since he took over that job of his and is always looking for an excuse to milk money out of us.

Stephen McGuinness works on behalf of his members, the players, and naturally is sometimes is in conflict with their employers.

I doubt if he "has it in for Dundalk FC", but his behaviour last year in relation to the first weeks wages issue (payment in advance or arrears) was poor and indicitive of someone who wanted to make a name for himself rather then build good relationships with his members' employers.

While he has every right to communicate with his members, I doubt if he would be working in their overall interests to try to embroil them in any action involving Dave Rogers.

[marinobohs]

While he has every right to communicate with his members, I doubt if he would be working in their overall interests to try to embroil them in any action involving Dave Rogers.

As they are members of the same union and (he says) have expressed concern at what happened Dave Rogers why is he wrong to ask for thier input ? In other employments his colleagues (other players) could/would go on strike to "support" a sacked colleague (and ensure an employer abided by proper procedure).

[Ezeikial]

As they are members of the same union and (he says) have expressed concern at what happened Dave Rogers why is he wrong to ask for thier input ? In other employments his colleagues (other players) could/would go on strike to "support" a sacked colleague (and ensure an employer abided by proper procedure).


Please read my post -


Originally Posted by Ezeikial http://foot.ie/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?p=1175293#post1175293)

While he has every right to communicate with his members, I doubt if he would be working in their overall interests to try to embroil them in any action involving Dave Rogers.


In any case, from what I hear, it seems McGuinness has got very little support from other Dundalk players.

Strike? For many of these players, I might be hard to notice the difference (although Fridays preformance against Bray augurs well for change in player attitude/application)

[marinobohs]

[quote=Black and White;1175286]Nobody mentioned Sean Connor here so why bring that up?
quote]
Given Dundalks new found morality (if we are to believe it) why was Sean Connor not sacked for abuse/ incitement of "paying customers" V Bohs ?
Is the new morality confined to Dundalk paying customers ? is it okay as long as the infringement is against away fans ?

Hardly surprising that people are looking at the situation and seeking different reasons than that given for Rogers sacking.

PS If Rogers joins another club (as suggested) it would not preclude him seeking redress for wrongfull dismissal. it would probobly lessen the amount of any compensation (or the element based on loss of earnings) but would not rule out a claim.

[jinxy lilywhite]

How? You sacked a player, with no warning, and didn't follow proper procedures, couldn't have, given how quickly it all happened, the board were kind of asking for the problems they'll now face.


CSF you can summarily dismiss an employee without due procedures if the actions of the case warrant. I am no legal eagle but I would assume a contravention of the law like indecent exposure and gross misconduct would warrant this action. It is as I guess the cts will look at each case on their own merits but dfc have as much as a chance of getting the correct outcome as rogers does.

if rogers has proceeded with signing for lisburn then i am fairly certain he won't be taking an unfair dismissals claim to dfc as i'm certain (correct me if I am wrong) that Rogers is only able to get compensation for the length of time that he was out of work. I will check this out

[Ezeikial]

[quote=marinobohs;1175392
Given Dundalks new found morality (if we are to believe it) why was Sean Connor not sacked for abuse/ incitement of "paying customers" V Bohs ?
Is the new morality confined to Dundalk paying customers ? is it okay as long as the infringement is against away fans ?

[/QUOTE]

Are you referring to the "money in the back pocket" gesture in the first match, or was there a more heinouus crime (apart of course from taking €100K off Bohs for unfair dismissal)?

[Black and White]

[quote=Black and White;1175286]Nobody mentioned Sean Connor here so why bring that up?
quote]
Given Dundalks new found morality (if we are to believe it) why was Sean Connor not sacked for abuse/ incitement of "paying customers" V Bohs ?
Is the new morality confined to Dundalk paying customers ? is it okay as long as the infringement is against away fans ?

Hardly surprising that people are looking at the situation and seeking different reasons than that given for Rogers sacking.

PS If Rogers joins another club (as suggested) it would not preclude him seeking redress for wrongfull dismissal. it would probobly lessen the amount of any compensation (or the element based on loss of earnings) but would not rule out a claim.

Actually if he joins Lisburn he will get about 3 weeks wages compensation and im sure his legal bills will be that amount so what is the point. If a player joins another club after being sacked, he will get wages for the period that he wasnt employed, aka with Rogers atm, 3 weeks. I looked it up!

[Dodge]

[quote=marinobohs;1175392]

Actually if he joins Lisburn he will get about 3 weeks wages compensation and im sure his legal bills will be that amount so what is the point. If a player joins another club after being sacked, he will get wages for the period that he wasnt employed, aka with Rogers atm, 3 weeks. I looked it up!

Look again. If he signs for them for 500 per week, and he was being paid 900 a week by Dundalk, Dundalk could still be liable for the 400 per week

[bellavistaman]

McGuiness is a ****. FACT. TBF Rogers doesnt seem to be far off one either, we dodged a bullet there.

[Ezeikial]

[quote=Dodge;1175414]

Look again. If he signs for them for 500 per week, and he was being paid 900 a week by Dundalk, Dundalk could still be liable for the 400 per week

Valid point.

Of course for Rogers to be awarded any amount, he first has to take a case and establish it (or more precisely counter Dundalks claim that he was fairly dismissed for gross misconduct).

I suspect that Rogers and the PFAI may not be all that enthusiastic about exposing themselves (opps!) to more ridicule by persuing the case.

I wonder how Stephen McGuinness would square up his recent comment with Dave Rogers' behaviour:

"PFAI General Secretary, Stephen McGuinness, says players must be aware of their responsibilities as role models and that they have an obligation as professionals to give a positive message to the many fans both young and old who attend games and are associated with clubs."

[marinobohs]

[quote=marinobohs;1175392]

Actually if he joins Lisburn he will get about 3 weeks wages compensation and im sure his legal bills will be that amount so what is the point. If a player joins another club after being sacked, he will get wages for the period that he wasnt employed, aka with Rogers atm, 3 weeks. I looked it up!

this depends on the forum to which he would take the case (EAT, Labour Court,Civil Courts). compensation can be awarded for "distress" "damage to reputation" "breach of procedure by employer" etc. This could be additional to compensation for loss of earnings. it is true however that the main consideration is loss incurred by the player. Any compensation would be based on the level of responsibility he incurred for his dismissal versus the level of responsibility on the part of Dundalk.

The most likely scenario is that the parties will agree a pay off figure on a confidential basis.

[marinobohs]

Are you referring to the "money in the back pocket" gesture in the first match, or was there a more heinouus crime (apart of course from taking €100K off Bohs for unfair dismissal)?

the "money in back pocket" gesture and money counting gestures. Is it OK in Dundalk to slag off paying customers as long as they are away fans ?

By the way dont go down the UD road until you see the outcome of Rogers case (Hypocracy is not a defence in Irish civil or Labour Law)

[Ezeikial]

this depends on the forum to which he would take the case (EAT, Labour Court,Civil Courts). compensation can be awarded for "distress" "damage to reputation" "breach of procedure by employer" etc.

The most likely scenario is that the parties will agree a pay off figure on a confidential basis.

Damage to reputation? You really have a quirky sense of humour!

[WoodquayBoy]

I agree, the man flashed his backside at a group of fans, any damage to reputation was done by himself

[pól-dcfc]

It doesn't matter a jot what you two think.

[jinxy lilywhite]

this depends on the forum to which he would take the case (EAT, Labour Court,Civil Courts). compensation can be awarded for "distress" "damage to reputation" "breach of procedure by employer" etc. This could be additional to compensation for loss of earnings. it is true however that the main consideration is loss incurred by the player. Any compensation would be based on the level of responsibility he incurred for his dismissal versus the level of responsibility on the part of Dundalk.

The most likely scenario is that the parties will agree a pay off figure on a confidential basis.


I can't see that happening. I think the board and especially Mr. Matthews will stick to their guns on this. Indecent exposure is what this was and it does warrant a summarily dismissal by his employers for gross misconduct and for a contravention of numerous public laws. In summary dismissal due procedures do not need to be followed.
I would love to know if there was a precedenct case in relation to this and i can't seem to find one.


the "money in back pocket" gesture and money counting gestures. Is it OK in Dundalk to slag off paying customers as long as they are away fans ?

By the way dont go down the UD road until you see the outcome of Rogers case (Hypocracy is not a defence in Irish civil or Labour Law)

we all know that there is a gulf in difference between Sean Connors' case and if their will be one between Dave Rogers and DFC. Connor improved bohs and then got fired while rogers dropped his togs for a laugh when his team where losing

[Ezeikial]

Given Dundalks new found morality (if we are to believe it) why was Sean Connor not sacked for abuse/ incitement of "paying customers" V Bohs ?
Is the new morality confined to Dundalk paying customers ? is it okay as long as the infringement is against away fans ?




the "money in back pocket" gesture and money counting gestures. Is it OK in Dundalk to slag off paying customers as long as they are away fans ?




You don't appear to be well up on this - Rogers was dismissed subsequent to his gesture to St Pats supporters (they were the "away" fans at Oriel, by the way)

If, as it appears, you as suggesting that Sean Connor should have been dismissed because of this "slight" on Bohemians or their fans you seem to have lost all sense of reality - a bit like Bohemians board itself over the last few years

[/quote]




By the way dont go down the UD road until you see the outcome of Rogers case (Hypocracy is not a defence in Irish civil or Labour Law)

I dont know what you are on about. But Bohemians certainly have been consistent in their ineptitude when it comes to legal issues

[CMcC]

I can't see that happening. I think the board and especially Mr. Matthews will stick to their guns on this. Indecent exposure is what this was and it does warrant a summarily dismissal by his employers for gross misconduct and for a contravention of numerous public laws. In summary dismissal due procedures do not need to be followed.
I would love to know if there was a precedenct case in relation to this and i can't seem to find one.



Just on the above while summary dismissal can occur immediately and without notice or pay in lieu of notice, it should follow the basic principles of natural justice.

Normal proceedure would have been to suspend Rogers pending an investigation and the hold the disciplinary hearing which he should have been invited to and afforded representation at. Then if the outcome was to summary dismiss so be it. The fact that aparently none of this happened leads me to conclude that Dundalk may have a case to answer at the EAT.

I think a few cases were cited as precedent further up the thread.

[Mr A]

Eh? Everybody knows what happened it had many, many witnesses and was even photographed. Rogers isn't denying it so I really don't see what purpose an 'investigation' or a hearing would serve.

He did something outrageously stupid and rightly lost his job. Him and the PFAI should feck right off and leave it at that.

[CSFShels]

Explain why he gets nothing if he joins Lisburn almost immediately?
Quoted the wrong person sorry.

CSF you can summarily dismiss an employee without due procedures if the actions of the case warrant. I am no legal eagle but I would assume a contravention of the law like indecent exposure and gross misconduct would warrant this action. It is as I guess the cts will look at each case on their own merits but dfc have as much as a chance of getting the correct outcome as rogers does.

if rogers has proceeded with signing for lisburn then i am fairly certain he won't be taking an unfair dismissals claim to dfc as i'm certain (correct me if I am wrong) that Rogers is only able to get compensation for the length of time that he was out of work. I will check this out
I sincerely doubt mooning comes under the category of dismissal without proper procedures, I'll be shocked if it does. And I'd assume Rogers won't be on the same money at Lisburn as he was at Dundalk, so he'll definitely have a case to make.

Eh? Everybody knows what happened it had many, many witnesses and was even photographed. Rogers isn't denying it so I really don't see what purpose an 'investigation' or a hearing would serve.

He did something outrageously stupid and rightly lost his job. Him and the PFAI should feck right off and leave it at that.
I'm sure you'd do the same if it were you.

[Mr A]

That's not that likely in fairness since I'm

a) Not a footballer
b) Not a moron stupid enough to moon the crowd half way though an important match.

[Black and White]

That's not that likely in fairness since I'm

a) Not a footballer
b) Not a moron stupid enough to moon the crowd half way though an important match.

You left out the main part...with his team down 1nil and on the bloody stroke of half time, could have at least waited til after the macth, sure away fans have to wait at least 10 mins after the match to get out!

[Martinho II]

McGuinness does not have it in for Dundalk. He works for his members.

nearly as aparanoid as the Corkies who think he has it in for them too


I very much doubt that mcguinness would have it in for dundalk he had a spell too with ye..hes doing his job after all..

[Dodge]

You left out the main part...with his team down 1nil and on the bloody stroke of half time, could have at least waited til after the macth, sure away fans have to wait at least 10 mins after the match to get out!

So that wouldn't have been a sackable offence? So the only reason he was sacked is because he was sent off?

[Black and White]

So that wouldn't have been a sackable offence? So the only reason he was sacked is because he was sent off?

He was sacked for showing a complete lack of respect for the club, his team mates, and the fans. How hard is that to drill into your thick head Dodge?

[Dodge]

He was sacked for showing a complete lack of respect for the club, his team mates, and the fans. How hard is that to drill into your thick head Dodge?

Are you for real? The post above you said he should've waited until after the game.

So obviously you think that him pulling his pants down after the game isn't showing disrespect to his club and team mates and, of course, the fans?

[Black and White]

Are you for real? The post above you said he should've waited until after the game.

So obviously you think that him pulling his pants down after the game isn't showing disrespect to his club and team mates and, of course, the fans?

Yes because in doing it during the bloody game he risks being caught, sent off and fined or worse, which is what happened, if he did after the game when nobody is bloody paying attention then he probably would still have a job for the reason that it probably would not have been caught with few watching or paying attention! Get the drift now?!

[SkStu]

i cant understand how people get so visibly angry arguing on the internet. Quite funny!! :D calm down B&W - Dodge is perfectly correct in his interpretation of your post. Its only a crime if you get caught, eh??

[thischarmingman]

i cant understand how people get so visibly angry arguing on the internet. Quite funny!! :D

http://www.spareroom.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/Wrong-on-Internet.jpg

[WoodquayBoy]

It doesn't matter a jot what you two think.
You're right, in fact, itr doesn't matter what any of us think. Shut down this bloody Internet thing once and for all, what were we all thinking?

[Mr A]

I think that we've established that what we were thinking doesn't matter.

Not that realising that what we were thinking doesn't matter matters in any way either.

[Ezeikial]

[quote=Dodge;1175856]Are you for real? The post above you said he should've waited until after the game.


Dodge, you are clearly misquoting him



So obviously you think that him pulling his pants down after the game isn't showing disrespect to his club and team mates and, of course, the fans?


So that wouldn't have been a sackable offence? So the only reason he was sacked is because he was sent off?

The Dundalk FC board have clearly stated their reasons for sacking.

In my personal opinion mooning at fans (before, during or after the game) shows an incredible level of disrespect to all concerned. But it is obvious to anyone with any level of intelligence that doing so during a crucial game, resulting in a sending off, simple compounds the consequences of his actions for his club, team and the supporters. How do you find that so difficult to comprehend?

[osarusan]

In my personal opinion mooning at fans (before, during or after the game) shows an incredible level of disrespect to all concerned. But it is obvious to anyone with any level of intelligence that doing so during a crucial game, resulting in a sending off, simple compounds the consequences of his actions for his club, team and the supporters. How do you find that so difficult to comprehend?
In all fairness Ezekial, the post you have made (and suggested Dodge has difficulty comprehending) is clearly different from the posts below, where Black and White suggests that if Rogers had mooned the away fans after the game and not been sent off, he (Black and White) wouldn't have been bothered at all.
For B&W, the main point, and the way Rogers disrespected the club and fans, is not that he mooned, but that he did it at the wrong time and got sent off for it.



You left out the main part...with his team down 1nil and on the bloody stroke of half time, could have at least waited til after the macth, sure away fans have to wait at least 10 mins after the match to get out!


Yes because in doing it during the bloody game he risks being caught, sent off and fined or worse, which is what happened, if he did after the game when nobody is bloody paying attention then he probably would still have a job for the reason that it probably would not have been caught with few watching or paying attention! Get the drift now?!

[marinobohs]

You don't appear to be well up on this - Rogers was dismissed subsequent to his gesture to St Pats supporters (they were the "away" fans at Oriel, by the way)

If, as it appears, you as suggesting that Sean Connor should have been dismissed because of this "slight" on Bohemians or their fans you seem to have lost all sense of reality - a bit like Bohemians board itself over the last few years





St Pats fans or club were not offended by Rogers act (as has been made clear by posters here) Dundalk decided to be offended for them , why then did they not take the same view with Seanie ?
Connors work at Dalymount is no more relevant than Rogers work at Pats (would it be OK to do had he won a double with Pats last season ?). your view that Rogers should be dismissed for banter with Pats fans is as delusional as your clubs expectations since joining the big league (in the "last few years" while bohs board were "losing sense of reality" remember where Dundalk were :)) Enjoy your one season in the Prem.

[pól-dcfc]

You're right, in fact, itr doesn't matter what any of us think. Shut down this bloody Internet thing once and for all, what were we all thinking?

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. You're sitting arguing over labour law. It's complicated business. None of us are in the position to speculate, let alone definitively state what the outcome of any case would be, particularly when it could rest on something as difficult to define as "damage to reputation".

[mcgonigle]

St Pats fans or club were not offended by Rogers act (as has been made clear by posters here) Dundalk decided to be offended for them , why then did they not take the same view with Seanie ?
Connors work at Dalymount is no more relevant than Rogers work at Pats (would it be OK to do had he won a double with Pats last season ?). your view that Rogers should be dismissed for banter with Pats fans is as delusional as your clubs expectations since joining the big league (in the "last few years" while bohs board were "losing sense of reality" remember where Dundalk were :)) Enjoy your one season in the Prem.

Thanks. Enjoy your last season in existence

[Black and White]

In all fairness Ezekial, the post you have made (and suggested Dodge has difficulty comprehending) is clearly different from the posts below, where Black and White suggests that if Rogers had mooned the away fans after the game and not been sent off, he (Black and White) wouldn't have been bothered at all.
For B&W, the main point, and the way Rogers disrespected the club and fans, is not that he mooned, but that he did it at the wrong time and got sent off for it.


Thats not what I mean, I'm saying if he wanted to do it so bad why didnt he just wait til after the match when nobody would be paying attention, then he couldve still be in a bloody job, no whinging about unfair dismissals and none of us on here debating what a **** Stephen McGuinnes is!

[marinobohs]

Thanks. Enjoy your last season in existence

been around a lot longer than Dundalk and expect to be around a lot longer in future. we after all are not the club hiking up prices and sacking players.:)

[Dunny]

been around a lot longer than Dundalk and expect to be around a lot longer in future. we after all are not the club hiking up prices and sacking players.:)

Is this guy for real? What about your "category A" games? :rolleyes:

[Dodge]

Thats not what I mean, I'm saying if he wanted to do it so bad why didnt he just wait til after the match when nobody would be paying attention, then he couldve still be in a bloody job, no whinging about unfair dismissals and none of us on here debating what a **** Stephen McGuinnes is!

SO you think he badly wanted to show Pats fans his arse?

You still not get my line of questiong?

[marinobohs]

Is this guy for real? What about your "category A" games? :rolleyes:

Most clubs have initiatives to attract support in the current economic situation. Cork had free admission, Pats gave Cadburys creme eggs, kids go free etc etc. Bohs REDUCED the price for some games (cat B) while maintaining the price for some higher profile games (cat A). If you cannot see the difference between this approach and INCREASING prices (Ala Dundalk) I suggest you lie down and stop making a fool of yourself on this forum :)

[marinobohs]

Thats not what I mean, I'm saying if he wanted to do it so bad why didnt he just wait til after the match when nobody would be paying attention, then he couldve still be in a bloody job, no whinging about unfair dismissals and none of us on here debating what a **** Stephen McGuinnes is!

so it IS ok to do it just as long as you wait until after the final whistle ? And for the record I think (at least) some of us were debating what a buch of hpocritical ****s the board at Dundalk are and not McGuinness.

[thischarmingman]

Seven pages (on my settings) on this topic so far...?

I await the invocation of Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law) by someone, soon, to end this madness.


Dundalk dismissed Dave Rogers without a fair hearing, and the Nazi's used to do the same to people they didn't like....coincidence? I think not. ;)