CL knock out stage

[Longfordian]

Puyol and Marquez will be back for the final so I assume they'll slot into the defence instead of Abidal and Alves. Could play Puyol right back, Toure and Marquez in the middle and Pique on the left maybe?

Marquez is out for the rest of the season apparently. He won't be back. It was a serious enough knee injury he got in the first leg.

[jmurphyc]

Marquez is out for the rest of the season apparently. He won't be back. It was a serious enough knee injury he got in the first leg.

The only realistic options for their defence that I can think of are Puyol at right back, Sylvinho on the left, with Pique and either Caceres (apparently a promising but very raw centre back) or a player out of position, such as Toure, at centre back. I think they'll go for Toure as I thought he did quite well last night overall. His positioning can let him down a bit though. Anyway, they'll have a few games to experiment with their defence, as the league is all but wrapped up for them.

Unfortunately they have four defenders out who would definitely have been contending for a spot on the pitch in the final: Marquez, Alves, Abidal and Milito (who has admittedly been out for the season). They'll be up against it.

[bennocelt]

In London now, so i cant tell you how happy i am to do a good bit of ribbing
Dirty cheating diving scum
What comes aroud goes around - surely Chelsea must know now that since Drogba and ballack do so much maoning and diving that how do they expect to get any 50-50 decisions from the ref???

Lucky for Barca that Abigdal is missing, he is rubbish - could be a chance to play an attacking def?

[jmurphyc]

Lucky for Barca that Abigdal is missing, he is rubbish - could be a chance to play an attacking def?

Abidal is an attacking left back. They'll likely be playing a 35 year old Sylvinho in his place. Hardly ideal.

[hunt4the]

http://www.upload3r.com/serve/060509/1241648354.gif
The only thing that's "a f£$king disgrace" is Drogba's attitude while scolari was in charge, didnt lift a finger

[SunnySweeney]

Ballacks attempt at blocking Inesta's shot for the goal was nothing short of cowardly. Its a bloody football not a scud missile . A Champions League semi-final you would throw your first born at it . Sums up for me the EPL and the pampered professionals that masquerade as men . Sickening. I am so glad that Chelsea were beaten , I despise their collective attitude and Drogba's attitude is pitiful. He is 6foot plus and falls over like my 1 year old Grandson, difference is my grandson tries to stay on his feet. God football is getting embarressing to watch at times with the carry on of these players.

Thankfully we have a football match to look forward to in United and Barcelona with the subplot of Ronaldo and Messi .

You've made some good points here.

I'm listening to Talksport at the moment. Ian Wright is asking "how much does Ballack want to take a ball in the face and see Chelsea go through?".

[pól-dcfc]

You've made some good points here.

I'm listening to Talksport at the moment. Ian Wright is asking "how much does Ballack want to take a ball in the face and see Chelsea go through?".

Only Ian Wright could ask that question. What a tool!
Ballack did shy from it. I'm delighted they didn't go through. Couldn't care less about who wins the final, but as long as that shower are out I'm happy.

[pól-dcfc]

http://i43.tinypic.com/n659qq.gif

:D:D

[SunnySweeney]

Only Ian Wright could ask that question. What a tool!
Ballack did shy from it. I'm delighted they didn't go through. Couldn't care less about who wins the final, but as long as that shower are out I'm happy.

Ian Wright - "If Ballack had shown the same passion and determination at blocking Ineasta's shot as he showed when chasing down the referee, then Chelsea would be in the final today" :D

[RonnieB]

I was delighted to see that cheating diving piece of **** Drogba so upset. The man is a joke for a player of his size and build he goes down easier than a five euro hooker.

[anto1208]

Love the over the top reactions here chelsea should be banned for a season etc !! Anyone that has ever played at any level even 5 a side leagues will tell you how flustrating it is to have a utterly useless ref out there.

If you had your whole season washed down the drain because of an idiot ref that waved away 3 if not 4 penalties ( 2 of which where blatanet hand balls ) you would be upset.

In saying that Ballack ducking out of the way of the shot was a joke if that was Phil Jageilka he would have thrown his face in front of the ball to stop it.

Still delighted chelsea are out but Barca didnt deserve it.

[Northern Light]

I was delighted to see that cheating diving piece of **** Drogba so upset. The man is a joke for a player of his size and build he goes down easier than a five euro hooker.


except when there is four or five burly guys trying to pull him down and he's intent on making it to the tv camera's:)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUziCx1mHxQ

[jmurphyc]

Love the over the top reactions here chelsea should be banned for a season etc !! Anyone that has ever played at any level even 5 a side leagues will tell you how flustrating it is to have a utterly useless ref out there.

If you had your whole season washed down the drain because of an idiot ref that waved away 3 if not 4 penalties ( 2 of which where blatanet hand balls ) you would be upset.

In saying that Ballack ducking out of the way of the shot was a joke if that was Phil Jageilka he would have thrown his face in front of the ball to stop it.

Still delighted chelsea are out but Barca didnt deserve it.

So you think that a referee receiving death threats, which is the second time Chelsea fans have done so, is acceptable. Have you ever received a death threat? No matter how frustrating it is for the Chelsea players, there's a way to act after losing a match. Chelsea didn't lose with dignity.

Chelsea can moan about the referee, but IMO none of the incidents were clear cut - the "blatant" hand balls could be argued as being accidental or ball to hand - and on top of that, most of the appeals were after Barcelona had a man incorrectly sent off, opening up more space for Chelsea, and consequently causing those incidents.

[Stuttgart88]

I thought the Malouda / Alves incident was definitely inside the box but I'm not convinced it was even a foul. There was every bit as much of a case to be made for a free out, no?

Drogba foul? Definitely a brief tug but only reason he went down was the realisation that Valdes was getting to the ball first.

Pique handball? Stonewall penalty.

Eto block? They're never given for ball to shoulder at pace (unless you're playing Georgia :))

So for me one out of four was a penalty, not the criminal scandal that Chelsea are making out.

I don't like Chelsea much but my admiration for Hiddink just grows & grows. Drogba is such a horrible creep.

[pól-dcfc]

I don't like Chelsea much but my admiration for Hiddink just grows & grows.

Why? He came out speaking of conspiracy after the match, and refuses to acknowledge that Drogba has been extremely stupid with his "f***ing disgrace" rant. He also said t was the worst refereeing performance he's ever seen, conveniently forgetting about the World Cup matches he had with Korea against Italy and Spain. He's a ballbag, and has never won anything outside of Holland.

[pól-dcfc]

Oh, and his tactics didn't pay off. Chelsea still sat back after Barca went down to 10 men, and brought on a defensive midfielder for a striker on 72mins. Hardly a great manager. If Stephen Kenny did that, I'd be fuming. If you play that sort of football you deserve to lose.

[Razors left peg]

I thought the Malouda / Alves incident was definitely inside the box but I'm not convinced it was even a foul. There was every bit as much of a case to be made for a free out, no?

Drogba foul? Definitely a brief tug but only reason he went down was the realisation that Valdes was getting to the ball first.

Pique handball? Stonewall penalty.

Eto block? They're never given for ball to shoulder at pace (unless you're playing Georgia :))

So for me one out of four was a penalty, not the criminal scandal that Chelsea are making out.

I don't like Chelsea much but my admiration for Hiddink just grows & grows. Drogba is such a horrible creep.

I think the Eto one should have been a pen... for me if you have ur arm above the head and it blocks the ball it should be given every time

[Stuttgart88]

Pol, I thought in the first interview I saw with Hiddink he was very reserved. "It's not about the penalties, we had other chances we could have taken, Henry should have had a penalty in Barcelona...."

Did he say worse stuff later? I had turned off & I was probably busy doing cartwheels down my road!

Also, I think the way Chelsea played was textbook how to play against a better team. Hiddink can play brilliant football but is also pragmatic enough to look at what he has, look at what the opposition has and come up with a gameplan. It didn't work but that was ultimately down to a pathetic effort at a clearance in the 94th minute (who was it that sliced the hoof up pitch?). That all said, it's easy to implement a plan if you have giants like Essien on the pitch.

Is Essien the modern incarnation of Roy Keane - they guy who has the ability to grab a game by its balls?

I agree about defensive substitutions though, I hate them.

Razor, those ball to upper arm ones are very rarely given. I'd like to have seen what may have happened if it was in the other box though.

[NeilMcD]

Pol, I thought in the first interview I saw with Hiddink he was very reserved. "It's not about the penalties, we had other chances we could have taken, Henry should have had a penalty in Barcelona...."

Did he say worse stuff later? I had turned off & I was probably busy doing cartwheels down my road!

Also, I think the way Chelsea played was textbook how to play against a better team. Hiddink can play brilliant football but is also pragmatic enough to look at what he has, look at what the opposition has and come up with a gameplan. It didn't work but that was ultimately down to a pathetic effort at a clearance in the 94th minute (who was it that sliced the hoof up pitch?). That all said, it's easy to implement a plan if you have giants like Essien on the pitch.

Is Essien the modern incarnation of Roy Keane - they guy who has the ability to grab a game by its balls?

I agree about defensive substitutions though, I hate them.

Razor, those ball to upper arm ones are very rarely given. I'd like to have seen what may have happened if it was in the other box though.

It was Essien.

[osarusan]

I thought the Malouda / Alves incident was definitely inside the box but I'm not convinced it was even a foul. There was every bit as much of a case to be made for a free out, no?

Drogba foul? Definitely a brief tug but only reason he went down was the realisation that Valdes was getting to the ball first.

Pique handball? Stonewall penalty.

Eto block? They're never given for ball to shoulder at pace (unless you're playing Georgia :))

So for me one out of four was a penalty, not the criminal scandal that Chelsea are making out.

Spot on with all that in my opinion. For the Malouda/Alves incident, when the ref blew the whistle first I thought he was giving a free out.

[anto1208]

So you think that a referee receiving death threats, which is the second time Chelsea fans have done so, is acceptable. Have you ever received a death threat? No matter how frustrating it is for the Chelsea players, there's a way to act after losing a match. Chelsea didn't lose with dignity.

Chelsea can moan about the referee, but IMO none of the incidents were clear cut - the "blatant" hand balls could be argued as being accidental or ball to hand - and on top of that, most of the appeals were after Barcelona had a man incorrectly sent off, opening up more space for Chelsea, and consequently causing those incidents.

Hang on a sec where did i mention death threats ? im talking about the game itself.

The hand ball where anelka was going past the defender he had his arm out and stopped the ball thats an peno and the one where the shot was blocked down near the end the defender blocked it with his arm which was above his head hardly ball to hand. Ball to hand only counts if the defenders arms are by his side.

Barca player getting sent off was another ref blunder.

Either way i think it will be a long time before that ref gets another game.

Death threats are a discrace but there is nothing much the team can do about that other than ban the fans if they are found and hand them over to the cops.

[jmurphyc]

Hang on a sec where did i mention death threats ? im talking about the game itself.

The hand ball where anelka was going past the defender he had his arm out and stopped the ball thats an peno and the one where the shot was blocked down near the end the defender blocked it with his arm which was above his head hardly ball to hand. Ball to hand only counts if the defenders arms are by his side.

Barca player getting sent off was another ref blunder.

Either way i think it will be a long time before that ref gets another game.

Death threats are a discrace but there is nothing much the team can do about that other than ban the fans if they are found and hand them over to the cops.

Chelsea as a football club disgraced themselves last night. English clubs and Liverpool were banned from Europe for the deaths of innocent people. That incident didn't involve the club itself, and whilst actual deaths are obviously far worse, death threats shouldn't be taken lightly. I would have no problem with my club being banned from Europe if they acted the way Chelsea did last night.

[Closed Account 2]

Pol, I thought in the first interview I saw with Hiddink he was very reserved. "It's not about the penalties, we had other chances we could have taken, Henry should have had a penalty in Barcelona...."

Did he say worse stuff later? I had turned off & I was probably busy doing cartwheels down my road!

Also, I think the way Chelsea played was textbook how to play against a better team. Hiddink can play brilliant football but is also pragmatic enough to look at what he has, look at what the opposition has and come up with a gameplan. It didn't work but that was ultimately down to a pathetic effort at a clearance in the 94th minute (who was it that sliced the hoof up pitch?). That all said, it's easy to implement a plan if you have giants like Essien on the pitch.

Is Essien the modern incarnation of Roy Keane - they guy who has the ability to grab a game by its balls?

I agree about defensive substitutions though, I hate them.

Razor, those ball to upper arm ones are very rarely given. I'd like to have seen what may have happened if it was in the other box though.

Great post, agree with all of the above.

I think Hiddink was pretty sincere after the match. I didn't see all of the post match stuff, but from what I saw he said that Chelsea should have taken more chances, there could have been other penalties in the tie and the ref last night was pretty poor. All of which are generally true and not that contraversial.

You have to credit Hiddink for being tactically astute. Barca's attack is very good and he deployed a system that restricted it for 180 mins. He has managed to get Chelsea clicking again. Under Scolari they were dismal, now he's brought fringe players back into the fold (e.g. Alex, Ivanovic) and they've been much better since he took over. He's been this good at pretty much all the clubs and nations he managed and that's why he's probably the best tactician in European football. I would say he's the best in the world but I think Ramon Diaz is probably a touch better.

Essien is a superb player, I remember a Lyon fan I used to work with raving about him a few seasons ago and I thought it was Gallic hype but in reality he's one of the best central midfielders in the league. His occasional absences over the last few seasons have coincided with blips in Chelsea's form, and more crucially nearly cost Ghana in their qualification for WC2010 - they only just came through their group stage with Gabon (Libya were eliminated on goal difference).

[MikeBassett]

There's a major malfunction in Sat Navs today. Chelsea is showing up as being 2 minutes from Rome

[Stuttgart88]

It was Essien.Told you he was influential :)

[MikeBassett]

http://i44.tinypic.com/18gal3.gif

[Neish]

Love the over the top reactions here chelsea should be banned for a season etc !! Anyone that has ever played at any level even 5 a side leagues will tell you how flustrating it is to have a utterly useless ref out there.

If you had your whole season washed down the drain because of an idiot ref that waved away 3 if not 4 penalties ( 2 of which where blatanet hand balls ) you would be upset.

In saying that Ballack ducking out of the way of the shot was a joke if that was Phil Jageilka he would have thrown his face in front of the ball to stop it.

Still delighted chelsea are out but Barca didnt deserve it.

Yes I agree that a bad referee decisions can be very frustrating but there is a big difference between players arguing or making a point to a ref about decisions they believe was wrong (which happens regularly) and the actions of Ballack and Drogba. Not saying they deserve a season ban don't think anyone thinks that but they should be banned for a least 3 games and get a large fine 3 weeks wages or something similar

And Barca did deserve it,they were the more entertaining side and played the better football in both games

[dfx-]

If ever there was an example of why the away goals rule is invaluable.

Chelsea punished by their 'heroic' 0-0 draw.

[bennocelt]

Abidal is an attacking left back. They'll likely be playing a 35 year old Sylvinho in his place. Hardly ideal.

id take that TBH

talking about ballack - he managed to pee a lot of german fans off in the last world cup - pulling out of a good few tackles in the Italy game - and him a midfielder and all - what exactly is he good at?

[jmurphyc]

id take that TBH

talking about ballack - he managed to pee a lot of german fans off in the last world cup - pulling out of a good few tackles in the Italy game - and him a midfielder and all - what exactly is he good at?

He may as well be on the dole. Only difference is, I don't think you get £120,000 a week on the dole.

[OwlsFan]

And who is to say that Chelsea would have scored from the only incident that probably was a peno - the first handball and I am not still convinced about that? It was ball to hand rather than hand to ball. How did Chelsea lose the Final last year? Oh yes, it was on penos ;)

[dfx-]

And the semi final the year before ;)

When they didn't kill Liverpool off at Stamford Bridge and paid for it ;)

[lionelhutz]

Pique handball? Stonewall penalty.



I'd argue this was debatable too. Yes it struck his arm in the box but it was accidental.

The rules state that unless the referee deems the handball to be deliberate, it is not a penalty.

[KK77]

I'd argue this was debatable too. Yes it struck his arm in the box but it was accidental.

The rules state that unless the referee deems the handball to be deliberate, it is not a penalty.

I don't like Chelsea at all but lets not be silly about this it was a stonewall peno end of.

[jmurphyc]

I don't like Chelsea at all but lets not be silly about this it was a stonewall peno end of.

In your opinion it was. However, the rules state that if it's either ball to hand, or accidental it's not. So realistically, it's often difficult to call whether a handball incident is a penalty. Just like the one of Wednesday.

[KK77]

In your opinion it was. However, the rules state that if it's either ball to hand, or accidental it's not. So realistically, it's often difficult to call whether a handball incident is a penalty. Just like the one of Wednesday.

It was a peno.

[jmurphyc]

It was a peno.

Sorry, you're quite right. You've convinced me.

[KK77]

Sorry, you're quite right. You've convinced me.

Well if you needed convincing i don't know:confused::D

[osarusan]

It was a peno.
What are you basing the argument on? Somebody else has mentioned a rule (no idea if it is correct or not) that if it is not hand to ball it is not a penalty.

[KK77]

Chelsea as a football club disgraced themselves last night. English clubs and Liverpool were banned from Europe for the deaths of innocent people. That incident didn't involve the club itself, and whilst actual deaths are obviously far worse, death threats shouldn't be taken lightly. I would have no problem with my club being banned from Europe if they acted the way Chelsea did last night.

What the hell has Heysel got to do with this thread?

[KK77]

[QUOTE=osarusan;1156848]What are you basing the argument on? Somebody else has mentioned a rule (no idea if it is correct or not) that if it is not hand to ball it is not a penalty.[/QUOTE

If you seriously need me to reply to that question you sir are a numpty:p

[osarusan]

If you seriously need me to reply to that question you sir are a numpty:p
I'm a numpty, so go explain.

Your argument seems to be that it's a penalty because..........well.........because..........it just is.

[jmurphyc]

What the hell has Heysel got to do with this thread?

I believe Chelsea should be banned from Europe for the fan's and the club's actions on Wednesday. I made that perfectly clear in previous posts, and in that post itself. Do you automatically do a search for anything that might involve Liverpool?

There's no need to get offended, not everything that refers to Liverpool is criticising them.

[KK77]

I'm a numpty, so go explain.

Your argument seems to be that it's a penalty because..........well.........because..........it just is.

Go on have a guess?:D

[NeilMcD]

And who is to say that Chelsea would have scored from the only incident that probably was a peno - the first handball and I am not still convinced about that? It was ball to hand rather than hand to ball. How did Chelsea lose the Final last year? Oh yes, it was on penos ;)

That is not a rule of football though. This hand to ball or ball to hand is not mentioned in the rule book.

[OwlsFan]

That is not a rule of football though. This hand to ball or ball to hand is not mentioned in the rule book.


http://www.fifa.com/newscentre/news/newsid=71939.html

It is important in football for the players - and in an ideal world, the fans too - at least to understand the most basic rules. But the crazy thing is that so many popular beliefs about the rules have survived so long, even without any basis in fact, that they have come to assume the force of law in many people's opinion. Let's look at a few :

Voluntary and involuntary handball :

The referee has just one thing to consider in taking his necessarily quick decision in a handball situation : was it intentional or not? He has to decide whether the ball went to the hand, maybe on the rebound, or the hand to the ball. He should not intervene if the ball goes to hand, nor if the player is clearly protecting himself rather than trying to take advantage of the situation.

Still a definite peno Rafa?

[Stuttgart88]

I'd argue this was debatable too. Yes it struck his arm in the box but it was accidental.

The rules state that unless the referee deems the handball to be deliberate, it is not a penalty.I watched it again and I'd say you're right - he did not move his hand towards the ball - his hand was in the same place before it was kicked.

tbh I'd be livid if it wasn't given if it happened against Ireland though. It just looked like the type of handball that is always penalised.

[osarusan]

The referee has just one thing to consider in taking his necessarily quick decision in a handball situation : was it intentional or not? He has to decide whether the ball went to the hand, maybe on the rebound, or the hand to the ball. He should not intervene if the ball goes to hand, nor if the player is clearly protecting himself rather than trying to take advantage of the situation.[/I]

I think that "ball to hand / hand to ball" is a flawed simplification of the issue of whether a handball was intentional or not.

Let's take a scenario where a defender stands on the goalline with his arms stretched up grabbing the crossbar. The ball is headed onto his arms by an attacker, and there is no question that the ball would have crossed the line had it not hit his arm. However, the defender has not moved his arms in any way to block the ball. Is this a penalty?

Is moving your hand into the path of the ball to block it different from putting your arms in a position where they will likely block a ball that you wouldn't otherwise block?

[sligo23]

I taught the rule was that if it was intentional or the team was gaining an advantage from it:confused:

[jmurphyc]

tbh I'd be livid if it wasn't given if it happened against Ireland though. It just looked like the type of handball that is always penalised.

I agree. I would have been so p*ssed if the referee in the Georgia game hadn't made the right call for the handball penalty decision. :p