CL knock out stage

[DeLorean]

If he does exactly the same thing, andthe conditions are the same, it will have exactly the same result. How can it be different?

I said he goes about executing it in an identical fashion. It may just hit a fractionally different part of his foot changing the end result completely. Of course in your opinion this is his own fault for not executing is precisely enough...I get that but don't agree with it.

What's your take on deflected goals? if somebody takes a bad shot that was going wide but it takes a deflection and goes in is that lucky?

[DeLorean]

If he executes in an identical fashion, it will hit the post and go across the goal again.

I said go about executing it in an identical fashion. This was a very important part of my sentance.


We are only dealing with millimetres in his case, but if you argue that luck is all that was involved in missing that chance, then you are saying that another striker, who may have adjusted his footing the millimetres necesary to put the ball just inside the post has actually done nothing different then Adriano, and his scoring the goal was down only to (good) luck rather than his technique and ability.

Yes the player who scores this chance deserves slightly more praise than Adriano assuming he has struck the ball well. I think Adriano deserved more for his excellent attempt than it striking the post and going across the goals but I guess that's where we differ.

[Roadend]

Was Terry unlucky for slipping taking his penalty in the final or was it just a bad penalty

*runs*

[gustavo]

Yes the player who scores this chance deserves slightly more praise than Adriano assuming he has struck the ball well. I think Adriano deserved more for his excellent attempt than it striking the post and going across the goals but I guess that's where we differ.

I can see what you mean to a certain extent , But to say he deserved more is ridiculous , Think about it , the goalposts are there for a reason i.e to determine what is a goal and what isn't so if the shot isn't within the parameters of the goal I don't see how you can say it "deserved" to be . Anyway I know what I mean in my head if that doesnt come across too clear :D

[osarusan]

Yes the player who scores this chance deserves slightly more praise than Adriano assuming he has struck the ball well. I think Adriano deserved more for his excellent attempt than it striking the post and going across the goals but I guess that's where we differ.

But again, if Adriano "deserved more for his excellent attempt than it striking the post and going across the goals", what did he deserve? A goal? Would he have deserved a goal as much as the "other" striker who actually scored the goal?

To say that it was poor play from Adriano would be silly. It was a very difficult chance, and he made a fantastic effort. But, in my opinion, the reason the ball didn't go in was not luck.

I don't go as far as Dodge and say that the only luck in football is refereeing decisions. I think there is luck to a greater extent than that.

But I will say it again, when a player fails to execute an action successfully, that is not luck. It may have been a great effort (Adriano hitting the post), or a poor effort (Ibrahimovic hitting the bar), but it isn't luck.

[Dodge]

I think Adriano deserved more for his excellent attempt than it striking the post and going across the goals but I guess that's where we differ.
But why? A great attempt or not he couldn't get it on target. Why did he deserve to score?

On deflected goals, there's obviously a bit of leeway when spin come into it. However some deflections could be down to a mistake by a defender, or as a result of good work by an attacker to get himself in the position to deflect it. Similarly if a player takes enough shots he knows that some of them will be deflected goalwards. Logically speaking...

[DeLorean]

This isn't really going anywhere. Sometimes a player hits the ball really well and it doesn't go in, other times he hits a rubbish shot but flukes into the corner cos it was so badly struck it deceives the keeper. To me this is to do with luck. Fair enough if ye don't agree. Thanks for a splendid debate in which I learned...

Some people believe in luck, some don't.;)

[OwlsFan]

Not many people including me (two I think), picked Porto to beat Atletico, albeit on a rare away goals victory. Amazing aggregate win also for Bayern when you consider Sporting are only 4points behind Porto in the Portuguese league.

[Mr Maroon]

Mourinho has gone from special one to special zero :D

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/8181/primau.jpg

[Stuttgart88]

I logged on expecting to find 3 pages of good chat on European CL football since I last viewed this thread. How wrong I was.

Brutal quality shoot out alright - both takers and goalkeepers. Almost everyone said that Eduardo's was a poor kick, which it was. Funny thing is if the keeper had guessed the wrong way the same people would have said it was emphatic. I'd say at least half the penalties last night were poor kicks. Delison's was a shocker, even worse than Cascarino's on Genoa.

[Closed Account 2]

The only Arsenal penalty that really impressed me was Kolo Toure where he raced in from virtually the center circle and pinged it low into the corner. I think that approach is the best way for a non specialist to take a penalty, just lash it low hard and fast, that way - assuming it's on target - the keeper has to get a fair bit of his body behind it to stop it. I feel a bit sorry for Eduardo, he jittered to try and see which way Doni would go but the Roma keeper didnt commit himself - and he lost all momentum when it came to striking the ball as he'd paused his run up.

Of Roma's takers I thought Montella (right in the corner) Aquilani and Baptista (given his treatment by the crowd) hit good kicks.

[OwlsFan]

Don't remind me about keepers going the wrong way for penos. I will never forget Given going the wrong way for all 5 in Korea :(

[Pike B]

Don't remind me about keepers going the wrong way for penos. I will never forget Given going the wrong way for all 5 in Korea :(
Ya, what was that about?? I really fancied he'd stop a few. Oh well, he's still class.

[Closed Account 2]

Don't remind me about keepers going the wrong way for penos. I will never forget Given going the wrong way for all 5 in Korea :(

To be fair with Mendieta's he came so close to flicking it over with his shin...
I always think it's best if a keeper stays pretty central for penalties especially in shoot outs where, as you start getting down the order, the kickers are less and less set piece specialists.

If a keeper stays upright as long as possible he can try and see which way the ball is going, if it's either slow, or not right in the upper corners, he should be able to get something on it. Also shoot outs are where big keepers (physically tall etc) come into their own, Buffon, Der Saar, Kahn, Dida* all have big frames and all are good at saving PKs.

*Granted Dida is pretty crummy at conventional keeping...

[Steve Bruce]

To be fair with Mendieta's he came so close to flicking it over with his shin...
I always think it's best if a keeper stays pretty central for penalties especially in shoot outs where, as you start getting down the order, the kickers are less and less set piece specialists.

If a keeper stays upright as long as possible he can try and see which way the ball is going, if it's either slow, or not right in the upper corners, he should be able to get something on it. Also shoot outs are where big keepers (physically tall etc) come into their own, Buffon, Der Saar, Kahn, Dida* all have big frames and all are good at saving PKs.

*Granted Dida is pretty crummy at conventional keeping...

Van Der Sar has never won a penalty shoot out competition when it's mattered until last seasons CL final.

He is woeful at penalties. But in general your point stands up. Pepe Reina is good at pens as well.

[Stuttgart88]

To be fair with Mendieta's he came so close to flicking it over with his shin...
I always think it's best if a keeper stays pretty central for penalties especially in shoot outs where, as you start getting down the order, the kickers are less and less set piece specialists.

If a keeper stays upright as long as possible he can try and see which way the ball is going, if it's either slow, or not right in the upper corners, he should be able to get something on it. Also shoot outs are where big keepers (physically tall etc) come into their own, Buffon, Der Saar, Kahn, Dida* all have big frames and all are good at saving PKs.

*Granted Dida is pretty crummy at conventional keeping...Cech has a poor record in shoot outs.

Apparently Niall Quinn was superb at it.

[DeLorean]

Van Der Sar has never won a penalty shoot out competition when it's mattered until last seasons CL final.

Not true. Holland v Sweden Euro 2004.


He is woeful at penalties.

Ok this didn't really matter but still impressive enough. Hardly woeful anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXtiWM20O0M

[NeilMcD]

Not true. Holland v Sweden Euro 2004.



Ok this didn't really matter but still impressive enough. Hardly woeful anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXtiWM20O0M

Ha ha classic fair play barely legal.

[Neish]

When is the draw for quater finals?

[Closed Account 2]

friday 20th lunchtime, same time as uefa cup draw.

[Mr Maroon]

Also shoot outs are where big keepers (physically tall etc) come into their own, Buffon, Der Saar, Kahn, Dida* all have big frames and all are good at saving PKs.


I'd say penalties are Buffon's only weak area. He saves relatively few considering how good he is overall.

[Closed Account 2]

He did alright in Euro 2008, saved from Mutu in normal time (the only regular penalty saved in the competition) and from Gueiza in the shoot out vs Spain. He saved Kaladze and Seedorf in the 2003 Champions League final...

[The Good Son]

Villareal v Arsenal
Man.Utd. v Porto
Liverpool v Chelsea
Barca v Bayern

Semi's 1v2 & 3v4

[RonnieB]

Handy draw for Utd, Liverpool vs Chelsea for the 10,000th time...

[reder]

Villareal v Arsenal
Man. Utd v Porto
Liverpool v Chelsea
Barca v Bayern

[Shilts]

ManU to beat Arsenal in the semi
Liverpool to beat Barca in the other semi

Liverpool to beat ManU in the final... and then I woke up :D

[DmanDmythDledge]

Barca to beat Man Utd in the final.

[Shilts]

Barca to beat Man Utd in the final.

I'd be happy with that :D (ManU to lose) but I think the winner of the Chelsea/Liverpool tie will be too strong for the Catalans

[Pike B]

Man Utd are the poxiest shower of @uck£ng @astar&s this side of the moon...

Talk about your handy draw.

Liverpool have it all to do.

[Shilts]

Man Utd are the poxiest shower of @uck£ng @astar&s this side of the moon...

Talk about your handy draw.

Liverpool have it all to do.

100% agree

[OwlsFan]

Man Utd are the poxiest shower of @uck£ng @astar&s this side of the moon...

and who are the poxiest shower of @uck£ng @astar&s on the other side of the moon?;)

[Pike B]

and who are the poxiest shower of @uck£ng @astar&s on the other side of the moon?;)
Moon United Fc... :p

[Denis The Red]

Man Utd are the poxiest shower of @uck£ng @astar&s this side of the moon...

Talk about your handy draw.

Liverpool have it all to do.

Oh, boo hoo, uefa are not fair, the fa are not fair, nobody likes us....:rolleyes:
It's called luck of the draw, glad Man. U didn't an english team because it would be tougher, naturally, but that's the way it goes, and I wouldn't bitch about it if we did, get over it.
Besides didn't big head gerrard brag last week after the Utd game that they now feared no one.
And apart from Sporting Lisbon, the scousers got the worst team in the last round.

[Pike B]

Oh, boo hoo, uefa are not fair, the fa are not fair, nobody likes us....:rolleyes:
It's called luck of the draw, glad Man. U didn't an english team because it would be tougher, naturally, but that's the way it goes, and I wouldn't bitch about it if we did, get over it.
Besides didn't big head gerrard brag last week after the Utd game that they now feared no one.
And apart from Sporting Lisbon, the scousers got the worst team in the last round.
You typify exactly why everyone hates United fans.

[NeilMcD]

You typify exactly why everyone hates United fans.

Not at all I think his response was pretty fair to be honest. I don't hate Man Utd fans and I actually find that Irish Liverpool fans are more unbearable to be honest. So you are wrong to say that everyone hates United fans. My brother actually works with a lad who supports Leeds and he hates Liverpool more than Man Utd purely due to their Irish fans. I think that if Man Utd go 18 years without winning the league the ones who have been kids during the last 17 years will be unbearable too.

[gustavo]

You typify exactly why everyone hates United fans.

I couldn't care less about them , and he also made valid points

[irishultra]

Winner of Barca v Bayern to win the whole thing I reckon.

on what basis? i just don't see it(bayern that is) even if they beat barcelona. van bommel and ze roberto are not exactly the most athletic of midfielders and I can see them being overun very easily.

Sure they manage to give away chance after chance domestically, what hope have they got in the final stages of european competition. Rensing, Lucio and whoever else plays beside him, not sure if its normally meant to be van buyten or demechellis is not good enough for me. way too fragile.

[Weatherman]

we can go on all day saying who's gona beat who! long story short, the champs league is coming back to OT!

[Denis The Red]

we can go on all day saying who's gona beat who! long story short, the champs league is coming back to OT!

Amen, along with the Premierleague;)

[Weatherman]

Amen, along with the Premierleague;)

Amen to that too!!

[old git]

[QUOTE=NeilMcD;1126795]Not at all I think his response was pretty fair to be honest. I don't hate Man Utd fans and I actually find that Irish Liverpool fans are more unbearable to be honest. :mad:

would have to agree with you 100% irish pool fans unbearable at times. :ball:

[reder]

would have to agree with you 100% irish pool fans unbearable at times. :ball:

Now, now, behave yourselves. No need for that kind of talk. We are all god's children.

Anyhoo, it all kicks off again tonight. United v Porto and Villareal V Arsenal. Ill go for 2-0 to United since they will have most of their first team back and 1-0 to Villareal.

I tipped Villareal to beat Arsenal over 2 legs when the draw came out but after watching Arsenal since the draw, im not so sure. Could end up with 3 PL teams in the CL semis.

An english club will win it. I have no doubt about that.

[Denis The Red]

My line up for the rest of the tournament: United v Arsenal, scousers v Barca.
Man U V Barcelona final.

[shakermaker1982]

Man Uts should see off Porto (poor form or not) and I'll be hoping Villareal can beat Arsenal.

A Man Utd-Barca final would be a lovely game of football to watch.

[reder]

Lads Barca will not beat Liverpool over 2 legs. Liverpool will strangle the life out of them and nick a goal or 2 due to Barca's shaky defence. Whoever comes out of the Liverpool V Chelsea tie will make the final.

[irishultra]

tie of the round is bayern vs barcelona. should be a cracker. its on setanta ireland yes?

[Roadend]

Arsenal match is on Setanta I think, Barca-Bayern will be on Sky

[lionelhutz]

It was great to see an average european team go to Old Trafford and play without fear. I haven't seen that in a long time. They were very good going forward, a little suspect at the back but they really took the game to United. It just shows what a team can achieve if they show a little courage.

[OwlsFan]

Well, they are in the last 8 of the Champions League, so they can't be that "average". Unbeaten for 15 games or more I think.

[DeLorean]

They might not be average but I was expecting United to win this tie with something to spare. They'll be doing very well to make it through now and I personally don't think they will.