CL knock out stage

[Closed Account 2]

I'd like Villareal to win it. They play good honest football are a family club and represent all that is good in Spanish football. They sign players who dont generally get a rub of the green at other clubs (Rossi, Ibagaza at Atletico, Riquelme back at Barca) and now they have a very good crop of players Senna, Cazorla, Mati Fernandez and Josepba Llorente, they have a young lad Damián Escudero from Rosario who tore the Argentine league apart in his time with Velez, he is loaned out to Valladolid, but he could be a great player in a few seasons, superb on the left wing...

It will be interesting to see how the draw pans out, I would think Bayern could be underestimated by a lot of teams. While they have been a bit sloppy in the Bundesliga they have shown zero mercy in the Champions League, dispatching Lisbon with clinical menace. They've a got these triangles of strength all over the pitch, at the back they have Lucio, Demichelis and Van Bommel sitting just in front of them, then they have Ribery, Podolski and Toni at the business end of the field... I still think there is good value to be had in putting a bet on them, you could get a good margin...

[4tothefloor]

whatever about the rest of my post you are on drugs if you don't think pepe was fouled. torres had his arm on pepe's shoulder when he clipped pepe's left leg. look at torres' reaction after he put it in!
Sorry mate but if you watch it again you'll see that Pepe was already off balance and on his way down by trying to stretch for the ball, which he made a balls of. It was no more a foul than Madrid being capable of winning the competition. And having an arm on someone is not a foul - for it to be a foul there has to be a forced push, drag/pull or obstruction causing a trip and there was none of these. Pepe fell over naturally trying to stretch for the ball. Irrelevent anyway cos as I said earlier it should have been about 10-0.

[shakermaker1982]

how wrong can you possibly be....
you'd give dunphy a run for his money

I'm going on previous form. One big win over a poor Madrid side and all of a sudden they are gonna rip Man Utd to pieces? Even the Liverpool players are buying into it now with Mascherano beating his chest. One convincing win in the second round means nothing if you go out in the Q final stages and finish 3rd in the PL.

Man Utd didn't play very well last night. Carrick and Scholes were way below their normal standards but a win against a Mourinho side is always special. Fingers crossed Man Utd get paired up with Liverpool in the Quarters.

[Pike B]

Chelsea FC (ENG) v Juventus (ITA)
Villarreal CF (ESP) v Panathinaikos FC (GRE)
Sporting Clube de Portugal (POR) v FC Bayern München (GER)
Club Atlético de Madrid (ESP) v FC Porto (POR)
Olympique Lyonnais (FRA) v FC Barcelona (ESP)
Real Madrid CF (ESP) v Liverpool FC (ENG)
Arsenal FC (ENG) v AS Roma (ITA)
FC Internazionale Milano (ITA) v Manchester United FC (ENG
I was robbed!!! :D

[Pike B]

I have a feeling Arsenal will go out. Roma beat Chelsea 3-1 in Rome earlier in the campaign, and Arsenal can be rattled. Fancy Roma on pens maybe.
Robbed again!!! :(

[OwlsFan]

Roma, Inter and Juve regained some pride for Italian football. Each could count themselves unfortunate. Inter were certainly the better side on the night but couldn't find the onion sack. Roma only went out on penos (didn't see the game) while Juve pushed Chelsea all the way. That said, all three went out.

[Dodge]

I don't think inter were the better side on the night. Probably should've gone in level at half time but second half was relatively comfortable for utd

[DeLorean]

Liverpool's performance on Tuesday night was as near perfection as they could possibly produce. Great tempo, kept the ball well and didn't give Real a kick for 90mins. It was the type of performance United should have been aiming to replicate last night. United themselves have produced this type of performance in the past on similar nights v Roma and Barcelona at OT last yr. Liverpool fans should be proud of their teams performance on Tuesday night but must surely understand how neutrals/anti Pool supporters tend to focus on how awful Madrid were. Lets face it, as good as Liverpool were it was beyond belied that a Madrid team could be (not only look) so bad. Atletico could and should have scored 5/6 against them at the wkd and that's no exaggeration. In fact Real's equaliser in that match was offside as well.

I think Tuesday night was more a reflection on Madrid than Liverpool as the Pool have produced similar performances over the past few yrs in Europe but not had 4-0 to show for it cos they were up against teams that had something about them. Fair play though you can only beat what's put in front of you and Liverpool did that with ease.

[DeLorean]

I don't think inter were the better side on the night. Probably should've gone in level at half time but second half was relatively comfortable for utd

Of course it was after scoring a completely undeserved 2nd goal very early on. I'm a United fan but they were as bad as I've seen in a long time. Inter very unlucky on the night but United completely deserved it over the 2 legs.

[shakermaker1982]

I don't think inter were the better side on the night. Probably should've gone in level at half time but second half was relatively comfortable for utd

I agree. If O'Shea and Berbatov had their shooting boots it could have been 4 goals to the good. Man Utd were brilliant in the first leg and should have had gone into the second leg with a commanding lead yet it remained 0-0. They turn up at OT, put in an average performance and win 2 nil. Football is a funny old game at times!

Anybody notice how bad the goalkeepers were for the penalty shoot out last night? The Roma goalkeeper was woeful.

[Dodge]

Inter very unlucky on the night but United completely deserved it over the 2 legs.

How were inter unlucky? Strikers missing chances isn't unlucky. Football isn't about posession or chances created. Its about goals. Inter couldn't score and couldn't claim it was anybody's fault but their own

[DeLorean]

How were inter unlucky? Strikers missing chances isn't unlucky. Football isn't about posession or chances created. Its about goals. Inter couldn't score and couldn't claim it was anybody's fault but their own

United did very little to justify being 2-0 up. They rode their luck. Of course it's important to take your chances and United did but on another night a couple of Inter's chances would have been taken as well. Inter passed the ball better than United in the first half and were generally the better side. At the end of it all goals are all that matters but they don't always go to the team that are looking more threatening despite your simplistic logic.

[DeLorean]

Anybody notice how bad the goalkeepers were for the penalty shoot out last night? The Roma goalkeeper was woeful.

Shocking altogether.They were diving about 3 seconds before the ball was even kicked.

[Dodge]

At the end of it all goals are all that matters but they don't always go to the team that are looking more threatening despite your simplistic logic.

Nothing simplistic about it at all. Looking threatening means absolutely nothing. Do defenders and goalkeepers not have a part to play in the game? Statistics in football don't matter. A team can have 45 shots on target and not score and lose to a team that has one shot and does. It was probably a combination of poor strikers and a geat goalkeeper but each of those areas are equally valid, and equally important.
The only cause for complaint any team can have is if they lose due to a referee's incorrect decision. Every other time they get the result they deserve

[Pike B]

Nothing simplistic about it at all. Looking threatening means absolutely nothing. Do defenders and goalkeepers not have a part to play in the game? Statistics in football don't matter. A team can have 45 shots on target and not score and lose to a team that has one shot and does. It was probably a combination of poor strikers and a geat goalkeeper but each of those areas are equally valid, and equally important.
The only cause for complaint any team can have is if they lose due to a referee's incorrect decision. Every other time they get the result they deserve
Complete rubbish again Dodge..

[Dodge]

How so?

[Pike B]

How so?
That is ridiculous that last comment. If a team dominates another, rattles the bar, has 70% of the possesion, 27 corners, 30 shots on goal and say draws the game, then it's what they deserve??

B.S man..

Luck has it's part in Football. It's a human trait. Didn't your Alien leaders teach you that before they sent you here??

[Dodge]

That is ridiculous that last comment. If a team dominates another, rattles the bar, has 70% of the possesion, 27 corners, 30 shots on goal and say draws the game, then it's what they deserve??

Absolutely. If its 30 shots on target, the keeper was great, wins motm and defintiely deserves a draw. If its 30 shots off target thats absolutely disgraceful fiishing. Surely finishing and goalkeeping are important in the game? What do corners mean? barcelona regularly has 70% of possession. You think they "deserve" to win every game?


Luck has it's part in Football. It's a human trait. Didn't your Alien leaders teach you that before they sent you here??
Whats lucky about missing that target? Whats lucky about a keeper saving 30 shots? Suppose Schmeical was the luckiest keeper in the world?

You think I'm the alien and you want the game to be settled on corners?

[weldoninhio]

Some typical comments on here about Liverpool.

When they hammer some teams - Madrid, Inter, Juve, Barca etc its because the other teams are sh1te.

When United do it, United are the best team in the World.

Im not saying Madrid werent poor because they were but they were also made to look poor on the night. As someone said it could have been 10-0 only for Casillas.

Lets see if United put four past Inter tonight who are equally as poor as Madrid.

Lets look at the facts, Madrid were pathetic, had nothing in defence, midfield, and absolutely nothing up front. They were sh1te!! Liverpool played well, but this was just a blip in their season.

I'm not a Man Ure fan, but the reason they are the best in the world when they do it is because they consistantly do it. Not just in one off cup competitions, but over the course of the season every season.

[micls]

That is ridiculous that last comment. If a team dominates another, rattles the bar, has 70% of the possesion, 27 corners, 30 shots on goal and say draws the game, then it's what they deserve??

B.S man..

Luck has it's part in Football. It's a human trait. Didn't your Alien leaders teach you that before they sent you here??

Bad luck is just an excuse used when you dont do something right.

It's not anymore unlucky to hit the post that to hit the corner flag, it just means you didnt place the ball in the right place. Players have games where they cant score, not because of bad luck but because they're striking the ball wrong.

If a team has 30 shots on goal they should have a striker good enough to convert one of them.

If they miss all of them then its either poor finishing or excellent goalkeeping, nothing else.

Ive shouted 'unlucky' as much as anyone else, but thats just a way to try to encourage people for a good effort. Its not actually unlucky it just wasnt good enough.

Strange deflections/high winds/ bad refereeing are the only things I would consider similar to 'luck' in football

[Pike B]

Absolutely. If its 30 shots on target, the keeper was great, wins motm and defintiely deserves a draw. If its 30 shots off target thats absolutely disgraceful fiishing. Surely finishing and goalkeeping are important in the game? What do corners mean? barcelona regularly has 70% of possession. You think they "deserve" to win every game?


Whats lucky about missing that target? Whats lucky about a keeper saving 30 shots? Suppose Schmeical was the luckiest keeper in the world?

You think I'm the alien and you want the game to be settled on corners?
The corners are just an example of how team can pin another into there own area.
I play at a Junior level in Limerick, and whether its there or the Champions League, you DO NOT, always get what you deserve. That is far too black and white man.
If I play Sunday with a team of regular below average players(we're battling relegation) and we're up against far superior opposition, we dig in. We ride our luck sometimes. Sometimes the results come, most of the time not. Do we deserve to be where we are? Yes, as we lack quality in several areas, but it's not as plain as you make it sound. There are games, such as Man Utd last night, where teams deserve more aka Inter. I totally disagree with your one dimensional theory on this.
Football like life doesn't always follow the 'you get what you deserve' tag.

[Pike B]

Bad luck is just an excuse used when you dont do something right.

It's not anymore unlucky to hit the post that to hit the corner flag, it just means you didnt place the ball in the right place. Players have games where they cant score, not because of bad luck but because they're striking the ball wrong.

If a team has 30 shots on goal they should have a striker good enough to convert one of them.

If they miss all of them then its either poor finishing or excellent goalkeeping, nothing else.

Ive shouted 'unlucky' as much as anyone else, but thats just a way to try to encourage people for a good effort. Its not actually unlucky it just wasnt good enough.

Strange deflections/high winds/ bad refereeing are the only things I would consider similar to 'luck' in football
You must be looking for Robots then mate, because humans make mistakes. Even the very best footballers. Maradona Platini even Van Basten missed penalties. Rubbish players really... ;)

[DeLorean]

It's not anymore unlucky to hit the post that to hit the corner flag

I don't think there's any point in even debating against this kind of stuff.

Dodge- I would agree that teams in general make there own luck and the cream generally come to the top and all that racket. Also it is true that gks and defenders are every bit as vital as the players at the other end. However sometimes in football you don't always get what you deserve. I think disputing this is ludacris. Most managers makes references to hopefully getting a break or a bit of luck along the way.


Nothing simplistic about it at all.


The only cause for complaint any team can have is if they lose due to a referee's incorrect decision. Every other time they get the result they deserve

Seems fairly simple to me!!

[Dodge]

You must be looking for Robots then mate, because humans make mistakes. Even the very best footballers. Maradona Platini even Van Basten missed penalties. Rubbish players really... ;)

Mistakes. Thats exactly what they are. Thats nothing to do with luck. How is van basten not scoring from 12 yards with only the keeper to beat unlucky? Either he made a mistake or the keeper made a great save?


The corners are just an example of how team can pin another into there own area.
Or an example of how a team comfortable at defending corners is happy to give away so many. As I said stats are useless in football


I play at a Junior level in Limerick, and whether its there or the Champions League, you DO NOT, always get what you deserve. That is far too black and white man.
If I play Sunday with a team of regular below average players(we're battling relegation) and we're up against far superior opposition, we dig in. We ride our luck sometimes. Sometimes the results come, most of the time not. Do we deserve to be where we are? Yes, as we lack quality in several areas, but it's not as plain as you make it sound. There are games, such as Man Utd last night, where teams deserve more aka Inter. I totally disagree with your one dimensional theory on this.
Football like life doesn't always follow the 'you get what you deserve' tag.
But you haven't giving me a single point to argue what I said. Everythign in football builds up to the score. Everything is relevent. If you work harder than the opposition but they're more talented who "deserves to win". I'm happy to argue which team created more chances, and which team controlled the tempo of the game but these are only small parts in the overall game.

Look at Italian teams of the 70s and 80s. They were built around soaking up as much pressure as possible and then squeaking out 1-0 wins. Are you saying that those teams were undeserving winners? The absolute beauty of football is that there are so many different styles, techniques, tactics and formations that stats and possesion are useless. Their can only be one winner, and that team generally deserves it (with the caveat that teams can absolutely be "robbed" by officials)

[Dodge]

However sometimes in football you don't always get what you deserve. I think disputing this is ludacris.
care to argue with any single point I made?


Most managers makes references to hopefully getting a break or a bit of luck along the way.
Thats because most managers play to the crowd.



Seems fairly simple to me!!
Simple doesn't equate to simplistic

[Pike B]

Your a lost cause Dodge. And if I had to guess, I would say you don't play the game.

[DeLorean]

care to argue with any single point I made?

I'd prefer to discuss. I thought I had been debating your point. You only have one point that I can see - there is no luck in football unless the ref rob's you? maybe I am missing all those other points you were making. Of course there is no right or wrong here really but I happen to believe that sometimes you don't get what you deserve and sometimes you get more than you deserve.


Thats because most managers play to the crowd.
I've heard Ferguson saying it countless times when asked about this quadrouple possibility. I don't see how he is playing the crowd he just recognises that United aren't going to be outstanding every match and may need a break along the way.



Simple doesn't equate to simplistic

Thanks for the English lesson but I think you'll find there is a link between the two. By not believing in luck you are igoring a big part of the game and therefore making it out to be more simple than it actually is, ie. simplistic view.

[Pike B]

What he said... :)

[micls]

You must be looking for Robots then mate, because humans make mistakes. Even the very best footballers. Maradona Platini even Van Basten missed penalties. Rubbish players really... ;)
Exactly. They are mistakes, not luck

I don't think there's any point in even debating against this kind of stuff.

Good response when you've nothing to say alright.

Of course it takes more skill to hit the post than the corner flag(if you're aiming for the goal) but 'luck' has no more impact on either. If you aim at teh goal and hit the corner flag, you're basically rubbish. If you aim for the goal and hit the post, then it was a much better attempt than the one that hit the flag but still not accurate enough to go in.

There's no luck involved in either


However sometimes in football you don't always get what you deserve. I think disputing this is ludacris.
I think blaming an unquantifiable thing called luck because you couldnt get the ball over the line is ludicrous....


Most managers makes references to hopefully getting a break or a bit of luck along the way.

You're right...most managers like to make up excuses alright. As do most people in fact. It doesnt make it reality though.

[Pike B]

Exactly. They are mistakes, not luck


Good response when you've nothing to say alright.

Of course it takes more skill to hit the post than the corner flag(if you're aiming for the goal) but 'luck' has no more impact on either. If you aim at teh goal and hit the corner flag, you're basically rubbish. If you aim for the goal and hit the post, then it was a much better attempt than the one that hit the flag but still not accurate enough to go in.

There's no luck involved in either


I think blaming an unquantifiable thing called luck because you couldnt get the ball over the line is ludicrous....


You're right...most managers like to make up excuses alright. As do most people in fact. It doesnt make it reality though.
I bet you never kicked a ball in your life.

[micls]

Again. getting what you 'deserve' is completely subjective. One person may think they deserve one thing and others might think the complete opposite.

Teams may not get what they 'deserve' in their opinions but they certainly get what they've earned

[micls]

I bet you never kicked a ball in your life.

I bet you're wrong....

But either way its irrelevant. Footballers arent someone more qualified to decide if something is 'luck' or not. In fact theyre probably less qualified as they are completely biased

[Pike B]

I bet you're wrong....

But either way its irrelevant. Footballers arent someone more qualified to decide if something is 'luck' or not. In fact theyre probably less qualified as they are completely biased
Nah, I bet your one of these guys I see in every club, (a lot in my own) that is an expert in a game they weren't good enough to play for long or at all. Bitter, twisted and jealous of the top class players they wish they were.
Spouting such drivel as 'He's rubbish', 'How did you miss that one' or the classic 'I'd have scored that myself'...

Honestly man. It's a game, played by people. Luck, mistakes, misfortune all happen every game..

[Closed Account 2]

Did Mirko Vucinic take the worst penalty ever seen in the Champions League ? I remember Ivica Vastic of Sturm Graz hitting a bad one 10 or so years ago, but Vucinic's was so soft... they say you should always hit the target in a shoot out, but I think it would have been less embarassing if he'd smashed it out of the stadium.

[micls]

Nah, I bet your one of these guys I see in every club, (a lot in my own) that is an expert in a game they weren't good enough to play for long or at all. Bitter, twisted and jealous of the top class players they wish they were.
Spouting such drivel as 'He's rubbish', 'How did you miss that one' or the classic 'I'd have scored that myself'...

Honestly man. It's a game, played by people. Luck, mistakes, misfortune all happen every game..

1) Im not a guy
2)I played for a laugh
3) Im not bitter twisted or jealous. I love football and I love watching players, particularly younger players, succeed at it
4) I rarely shout things like he's rubbish(although when Denis is playing....)
5) None of that has anything at all to do with anything I posted and is probably one of the most random things Ive seen on the forum. how the phuck did you get that rubbish from me not believing in luck :confused: Put away your 'pop psychology' book lad.

It's not a game, it's a sport. games are based on luck(chance) where players have little input e.g monopoly.

In sport the what happens is based on what people do, what they do right, what they do wrong and the mistakes they made. Not luck(unless its a refereeing decision etc). Luck is simply an overused excuse.

You still havent actually debated any of the point. If someone is one on one and hits the post is it because of luck or because they didnt kick the ball in a way that would put it into the goal? Im not criticising players for missing oppotunities as you said, they're human and mistakes happen, or maybe they just dont have the skill to pull it off,or are having a bad game. but its down to the players not luck.

[gustavo]

Nah, I bet your one of these guys I see in every club, (a lot in my own) that is an expert in a game they weren't good enough to play for long or at all. Bitter, twisted and jealous of the top class players they wish they were.
Spouting such drivel as 'He's rubbish', 'How did you miss that one' or the classic 'I'd have scored that myself'...

Honestly man. It's a game, played by people. Luck, mistakes, misfortune all happen every game..

Maybe we should calculate a different way of deciding who wins games , so as to remove "luck" , A half a goal if you hit the post something like that :rolleyes:

Oh and I played football last night so that means my point is relevant , Maybe if i play again on Sunday it'll be even more so.

[Pike B]

The reason I'm not debating it, is because it's not worth debating hunny.
You and Dodge made more ridiculous comments in the last few pages than I've ever seen on here, and frankly I like my fingerprints and don't fancy wasting them away by typing for the next hour about how ridiculous ye sound.

So I'll let you to your little opinion, and I'll keep mine.

Toodles..

[DeLorean]

Good response when you've nothing to say alright.
Yes because you left me for dead with your top class debate breaking point that was....


It's not anymore unlucky to hit the post that to hit the corner flag

For the record I know what you're saying. You didn't achieve in what you were trying to do with either attempt. Let's try to be real here though- when Ronaldo or whoever lines up a free kick and smashes it off the post from 40 yards then he is close and maybe on another day (with a bit more luck!!) it would have went in off the post. If he hits the corner flag it's just poor.


Luck is simply an overused excuse.

True but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Ye keep telling us to argue ye're points but unless we list a load of matches where one team was better than the other but didn't win I'm not sure exactly how to do that. Ye don't believe luck is a factor in sport and I do...I'm not saying that it is as important as having a good team or a good referee but it is a factor, that's all.

[Pike B]

Yes because you left me for dead with your top class debate breaking point that was....



For the record I know what you're saying. You didn't achieve in what you were trying to do with either attempt. Let's try to be real here though- when Ronaldo or whoever lines up a free kick and smashes it off the post from 40 yards then he is close and maybe on another day (with a bit more luck!!) it would have went in off the post. If he hits the corner flag it's just poor.



True but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Ye keep telling us to argue ye're points but unless we list a load of matches where one team was better than the other but didn't win I'm not sure exactly how to do that. Ye don't believe luck is a factor in sport and I do...I'm not saying that it is as important as having a good team or a good referee but it is a factor, that's all.
You see, I am thinking all of this, but honestly I'm way too lazy a man to bother to type it all. But I'm 100% behind you buddy. Sock it to em.
Anyway, I'm off to play the lotto, it's all skill you know... ;)

[DeLorean]

Maybe we should calculate a different way of deciding who wins games , so as to remove "luck" , A half a goal if you hit the post something like that :rolleyes:

Or a behind like Aussie rules.:eek:

[Dodge]

Your a lost cause Dodge. And if I had to guess, I would say you don't play the game.

I play football. I'm not very good at it. In your opinion I'm probably unlucky...

I love the way that when you can't accept the views of others here you decide to ignore them, that you've had enough and are leaving and then say we're the "lost causes"

Toodles indeed...

[Dodge]

Did Mirko Vucinic take the worst penalty ever seen in the Champions League ?

He was unlucky apparently.

[Pike B]

I play football. I'm not very good at it. In your opinion I'm probably unlucky...

I love the way that when you can't accept the views of others here you decide to ignore them, that you've had enough and are leaving and then say we're the "lost causes"

Toodles indeed...
Oh I'm usually right buddy, just very very lazy.
Good LUCK with the football career!! ;)

[osarusan]

Pike B, can you give one example of how Inter were unlucky last night?

I saw Ibrahimovic and Stankovic miss a couple of sitters, and Adriano hit the post. None of them were able to hit the target (although Adriano came very close).

A player's inability to successfully execute an action, be it scoring, saving, tacking, etc. are not examples of luck.

You can say that Inter had a lot of posession in United's half, and created quite a few chances, but failed to score. But if a team fails to convert any of their chances due to poor finishing, why are they unlucky?

[Dodge]

But if a team fails to convert any of their chances due to poor finishing, why are they unlucky?

I think I asked that question about 2/3 pags ago...

[micls]

The reason I'm not debating it, is because it's not worth debating hunny.

:D typical. Surely if the points are that ridiculous it would be easy to take them apart? Like how telling me how its luck that makes a ball hit a post rather than the way the player hit it.....hunny




Yes because you left me for dead with your top class debate breaking point that was....

What can I say...it's a gift ;)





For the record I know what you're saying. You didn't achieve in what you were trying to do with either attempt. Let's try to be real here though- when Ronaldo or whoever lines up a free kick and smashes it off the post from 40 yards then he is close and maybe on another day (with a bit more luck!!) it would have went in off the post.
Yes he is close and on another day(with a bit more accuracy) it would go in. how exactly does 'luck change how the ball moves or where it goes?

On another day if he hits the ball in exactly the same way(unlikely) and the conditions were exactly the same, then he would hit the post again.

However if he hits it slightly differently(better) then it could go in.

I still dont see where luck gets involved. Waht would you consider to be luck in that scenario?




True but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Ye keep telling us to argue ye're points but unless we list a load of matches where one team was better than the other but didn't win I'm not sure exactly how to do that. Ye don't believe luck is a factor in sport and I do...I'm not saying that it is as important as having a good team or a good referee but it is a factor, that's all.

Well unless someone can prove to me that luck does exist then Im afraid Im going to carry on thinking this way. Its easy to claim something exists, I need something to back it up before I believe it though.

Listing matches where a team was better than another and lost isnt going to prove luck. its going to prove that sometimes the technically better team loses because they other team do a better job of putting the ball in the net.



Anyway, I'm off to play the lotto, it's all skill you know... ;)

And I think you've just proven to everyone that you should be ignored by trying to compare a game of pure chance to football......

[NeilMcD]

Regardless of who is right on this debate I think comments like "hunny" and "toodles" really show up Pike B's argument. Your debating style is condescending, by the way that is when you speak down to somebody. :)

[DeLorean]

Pike B, can you give one example of how Inter were unlucky last night?

I saw Ibrahimovic and Stankovic miss a couple of sitters, and Adriano hit the post. None of them were able to hit the target (although Adriano came very close).

A player's inability to successfully execute an action, be it scoring, saving, tacking, etc. are not examples of luck.

You can say that Inter had a lot of posession in United's half, and created quite a few chances, but failed to score. But if a team fails to convert any of their chances due to poor finishing, why are they unlucky?

Adriano's attempt was a very difficult one to execute. He made a really good attempt at it and it hit the inside of the post. I'm sure if Adriano gets an identical chance in his next match he will go about executing it in an identical fashion. However next time the chances are the result will be slightly different, it might go wide or it might go in. The point I am trying to make is that he will do all he can do and sometimes it will go in, sometimes it won't, the difference being a little bit of luck. Of course skill also has it's part to play in that a player off lesser ability than Adriano might have connected badly, although this could still LUCKILY end up in the net but obviously the more skill you have the better chance you have of scoring.

[Dodge]

Adriano's attempt was a very difficult one to execute. He made a really good attempt at it and it hit the inside of the post. I'm sure if Adriano gets an identical chance in his next match he will go about executing it in an identical fashion. However next time the chances are the result will be slightly different, it might go wide or it might go in.
If he does exactly the same thing, andthe conditions are the same, it will have exactly the same result. How can it be different?

[osarusan]

I'm sure if Adriano gets an identical chance in his next match he will go about executing it in an identical fashion.
If he executes in an identical fashion, it will hit the post and go across the goal again.



The point I am trying to make is that he will do all he can do and sometimes it will go in, sometimes it won't, the difference being a little bit of luck.
I get what you are saying. But the fact is for that ball to have gone into the net it would have had to come off a very slightly different part of his boot, or his boot needed to have been at a very slightly different angle.

We are only dealing with millimetres in his case, but if you argue that luck is all that was involved in missing that chance, then you are saying that another striker, who may have adjusted his footing the millimetres necesary to put the ball just inside the post has actually done nothing different than Adriano, and his scoring the goal was down only to (good) luck rather than his technique and ability.