Euro 2012 Qualifying Group B - General Discussion

**Stuttgart88** · 07/09/2011, 2:31 PM

Edmundo,

I'd add that regardless of the Armenia v Macedonia result, a draw v. Armenia will see us in second as long as Slovakia don't win both their last 2 games. Or we can even draw in Andorra, as long as we win at home to Armenia.

Anyway, simple enough. Win in Andorra and then look at the table.

**pineapple stu** · 07/09/2011, 2:33 PM

Interestingly, as it stands (and this is pretty much guaranteed to change), our play-off opponents are Sweden.

Wonder how often it's happened that the play-off opponents then get drawn against each other in the next campaign.

**holidaysong** · 07/09/2011, 2:35 PM

Is there not a draw for the playoffs?

**davey** · 07/09/2011, 2:37 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Remember we played a friendly in Norway and S. Reid & Whelan bossed midfield and we played the game in Norway's half - until the heavens opened? God, that seems ages ago now. Paul's right, just sitting doesn't work. We need to be aggressive winning the ball back, but are we good enough?

Part of our problem is that our best players include our front two (both of whom have egos) so it's hard to drop one to change midfield tactics. Likewise we have good wide players who are hard to drop. That means we're stuck with 4-4-2, unless management is strong and drops a big name.

Completely true. I've been wracking my brains to think of a better way for us to play 4-4-2 and keep coming back to Stephen Reid. I know he retired but he has hinted apparently he might come back if we were stuck. Well we're stuck with mediocre Central midfielders. Reid always looked a better ball winner than Whelen/Andrews combined. Probably wishful thinking but would be great to have another option for the system we play. Lets face it, Trap's not going to change now.

**pineapple stu** · 07/09/2011, 2:49 PM

Originally Posted by holidaysong

Is there not a draw for the playoffs?

It's seeded anyway; I'm assuming it's 1 v 5, 2 v 6, etc. I might have made that up though!

**paul_oshea** · 07/09/2011, 2:53 PM

I think you did. We got drawn against France.

**Closed Account 2** · 07/09/2011, 3:06 PM

I'm fairly certain it's split top 4 ranked, bottom 4 ranked, and anyone from the top 4 can be drawn against anyone from the bottom 4.

**pineapple stu** · 07/09/2011, 3:10 PM

Fairy nuff. Thought they'd made it more see-through (read - rigged in the better teams' favour) after the last time, but must have been wrong.

Annoyingly, if Robbie had scored that penalty in Trnava, then we'd be the best second-place team at the moment (granted, other countries would have a game in hand).

**bwagner** · 07/09/2011, 3:30 PM

team id like to see against andorra.
Given
O'Shea St.Ledger O'Dea Clark
S Reid
Whelan Mc Carthy Duff
Long Keane

Mc Geady and Hunt to come and mix it up after 60 - 70 mins

**geysir** · 07/09/2011, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Fairy nuff. Thought they'd made it more see-through (read - rigged in the better teams' favour) after the last time, but must have been wrong.

Annoyingly, if Robbie had scored that penalty in Trnava, then we'd be the best second-place team at the moment (granted, other countries would have a game in hand).

If every contending team claimed their stonewall missed opportunity, probably we would be in the same place as we are now.

**DannyInvincible** · 07/09/2011, 3:55 PM

The play-off draw is an open one in so far as the eight teams will be split into two groups of four - one seeded and one not - and paired against one another randomly from those two groups. The four runners-up with the best positions in the UEFA team coefficient ranking system will be seeded and will play their second legs at home.

See article 7.07: http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/...7_download.pdf

"7.07 The eight remaining runners-up contest play-off matches. The four ties are determined by means of a draw. The four runners-up with the best position in the UEFA national team coefficient ranking system (see Annex I, paragraph 1.2.2) are seeded for the draw. If any of the teams in question have the same coefficient, the criteria listed in paragraph 7.02 apply. The play-offs are played according to the knockout system, with each team playing each opponent twice, in home and away matches. The seeded teams play the return match at home. The teams which score the greater aggregate of goals in the two matches qualify for the final tournament. Otherwise, the provisions of paragraph 7.08 apply."

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

There was me doubting those stats & projections by Castrol that Danny put up the other day!

Win our 2 games and it's at least a play off. I'd have taken that at HT yesterday when we couldn't get out of our own half!

Well, to an extent, you'd be right to doubt them. Oddly, Castrol have lowered our chances of qualifying after yesterday and now predict Slovakia to finish 5th in the group behind Macedonia. That isn't even mathematically possible! http://www.castrolfootball.com/calcu...roup_predictor

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I was chatting to a lad(PIs cousin) last night, and that rumour about Doyle was true.

He certainly didn't look happy last night coming off, but Trap got it spot on in my opinion.

What was the rumour? That he was taking the huff over Long being favoured initially for Slovakia/being substituted in both games? Who's PI, by the way?

Originally Posted by AlaskaFox

The 81 possible Group B outcomes:
http://greenscene.me/2011/09/possibl...up-b-outcomes/

Your brain will melt.

Haha, Jesus. How did you manage that? I like the casual and understated nature of the comment:

"Hard to actually read in detail, but it shows how a lot hinges on the last few matches."

**tetsujin1979** · 07/09/2011, 4:02 PM

Originally Posted by AlaskaFox

The 81 possible Group B outcomes:
http://greenscene.me/2011/09/possibl...up-b-outcomes/

Your brain will melt.

my attempt to make the permutations and combinations easier to understand (or not. actually, just not): https://sites.google.com/site/tetsuj...alifyinggroupb
(this is based on the assumption that Ireland and Russia both beat Andorra in their remaining games)

**paul_oshea** · 07/09/2011, 4:03 PM

The superfluous use of yellow.

But the power of colour tets

Good work.

**geysir** · 07/09/2011, 4:09 PM

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

What was the rumour? That he was taking the huff over Long being favoured initially for Slovakia/being substituted in both games? Who's PI, by the way

Surely you don't doubt Paul's rumour verification criteria?

**tetsujin1979** · 07/09/2011, 4:11 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

The superfluous use of yellow.

But the power of colour tets

Good work.

changed it to orange.
stupid HTML orange, mind, but orange nonetheless

**paul_oshea** · 07/09/2011, 4:49 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Surely you don't doubt Paul's rumour verification criteria?

The Sunday Times, not my rumour

I posted it on the Ireland v Slovakia thread previously.

Come on Wise one, keep up

Reading a Quote from Given that the point Ireland got "means its still in our hands" we couldn't afford to lose, is alarming to me. Drawing to Russia, only put second back into our hands only (first not really back in our hands) because slovakia lost. Very worrying to think our players, and obviously our manager are not aware of the actual situation.

**geysir** · 07/09/2011, 5:53 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

The Sunday Times, not my rumour

I posted it on the Ireland v Slovakia thread previously.

Come on Wise one, keep up

I never claimed it was your rumor Paul, I claimed you had a rumor verification (cough …splutter) criteria.
That does not even remotely imply that you were the source of the rumour.

**AlaskaFox** · 07/09/2011, 6:39 PM

Re-ordered the massive permutations post to make it easier to understand:
http://greenscene.me/2011/09/possibl...up-b-outcomes/

**mypost** · 07/09/2011, 6:57 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Annoyingly, if Robbie had scored that penalty in Trnava, then we'd be the best second-place team at the moment (granted, other countries would have a game in hand).

If the Russian keeper didn't set up Slovakia's winner in Moscow, if Macedonia scored their penalty and scored their disallowed goal against us in Skopje, or equalised in Dublin, if Ireland had scored our penalty in Zilina, if we hadn't scored an og against the Russians in Dublin, if we got another penalty against them in the last minute, or if Russia had scored once yesterday from 26 attempts, chances are the group would look a lot different tonight.

The group is what it is. We win the two games left, and we get out of the group. We win them and Slovakia beat the Russians like last year, and we're off to the finals. It's that simple.

**zero** · 07/09/2011, 7:03 PM

i think at this point it's fair to say russia deserve to top the group - they gave us a right battering in both games. i would've taken 2nd at the start.

a lot of talk about how andrews and whelan aren't good enough - whelan in particular was really good last campaign but hasn't done as well this time round. i think he has it in him to be effective and i wouldn't rule either out now. bear in mind gibson might well have started both games if fit so it's not as if trap doesn't realise there's an issue in the middle.

that said would like to see mccarthy get a run out against andorra - last half an hour if not starting - as they'll be sitting back and he could unlock them. i fear a repeat of liechtenstein but really, as they say, if we can't beat andorra etc.