Euro 2012 Qualifying Group B - General Discussion

[AlaskaFox]

I couldn't give a crap if we play terrible football as long as we win. Doing well defensively is always an aspiration too.

[Kingdom]

Struggled to put finger to keyboard in any meaningful sense after one of the best weeks of my life.

Pretty much throughout this group I've championed the merits of focussing on each game as it comes, and looking for the result on the night that is acceptable. Last Sat was no different. I've only been able to look at the pre match analysis and about 42 mins of the first half. I was surprised at the pessimism of the studio. I've never seen or heard an Irish crowd as confident over a tricky away game. Not one person mentioned taking a draw that I spoke to - all were of the belief that we'd go for the win and get it. Thankfully we did.

We've essentially 4 finals to finish with - no different to Russia or Slovakia.

On another Irish footie forum, the Irish team, the Aviva, and a combination of the two have been blamed on a poor atmosphere in D4. That we've needed a "big" game to set the stage (despite hosting Russia already). Well gents, that big game has arrived. It's next autumn vs the Slovaks. It's the pivotal game in the group. The outcome of the game changes how Russia, Ireland and Slovakia all approach the remaining head to heads. It should be a superb atmosphere, and all things being fair and equal, I've no doubt if we play with an ounce of what we can, we'll take the Slovaks. They aren't in anyway hectic. I'm extremely confident of that. Win and it changes everything for the group.

While I'm not engaging in what will happen in our group, I do speculate on other groups and it does look like Sweden will take the automatic runners up spot. They're in an extremely weak group and while they have a tricky one in Budapest, they should have enough to take them over the line. After them it's all up in the air in most of the other groups.

If it were to play out that we got a play off spot,

A - Between Belgium & Turkey. On the face of it, Turkey should sneak it - would prefer to avoid either of them, Belgium especially, they are going to be massive over the next decade.
C - 1 of Slovenia, Serbia & The North. Our neighbours still have Est h&a and the Faroes in Windsor, With the Serbs in Windsor too. They have a real chance - as the others all have games against each other - Would take Slovenia, and the North, but not Serbia.
D - Toss up between BosHerz, Belarus & Romania. BHZ/Bel double header still to come, might allow Romania to sneak in. Would take anyone of this group.
E - Sweden all the way, automatic too.
F - One of Greece Croatia and possibly Israel. - One to avoid.
G - Montenegro in the driving seat. Swiss could pip them in the end (last game is Swiss v Mont @ Basel.) Would take this.
H - One of Portugal, Denmark, Norway. Avoid like the plague.
I - If Scotland beat the Czech's @ Hampden next matchday, they'll take 2nd spot. I wouldn't be unhappy if we got them, but I'd prefer not to.

So, Turkey, Serbia, Bosnia, Sweden, Greece, Switzerland, Denmark, Scotland. Nothing overly formidable, but nothing really fanciable either. The masochist in me wants Switzerland. The thoughts of the Nazi gold chant and it actually having a bit of bite behind it brings me close to climax.

[Murfinator]

Nothing overly formidable but bar Scotland they're all quite good too and would probably be favoured over us.

[Kingdom]

I think a big result would captivate the nation though. McCarthy's team didn't really capture attention in terms of the quality of its football, but because they beat Yugoslavia, Croatia and, of course, Holland. Back-to-back victories in September would go some way to getting the nation engaged again. At the moment the jury is still out, but it's mainly because doubts exist about whether we can beat big teams in big games.

You got there before me, and with less rambling too.
The jury is out because we're a nation of event junkies. As stutts says, we can't help the teams we're drawn against, we just have to try and do the best with what we have got. I suspect the calibre of player has something to do with it too - gone are the Uniteds, Liverpools, Evertons of past ireland squads, and to be replaced with Bristol City, WBA, Preston, Coventry, etc. Also it's a tad unfortunate but we're getting close to what should be another bonus for the "Irish" public - a home grown first XI - Given, Josh, Dunne, ODea, Whelan, Andrews, Duff, Keane, Doyle, all grew up here. So much for the "mercenary" tag keeping the fans away.
I don't buy the ticket cost either. I'm almost exclusive in my dwindling group of friends in that i attend matches everytime. Yet my buddies will travel into the city to go to the boozer, spend many hours before kickoff and a few afterwards, far exceeding the cost of a ticket. It doesn't add up.

[Kingdom]

Nothing overly formidable but bar Scotland they're all quite good too and would probably be favoured over us.

To be fair, I tried being conservative in my choices. The North are probably more favoured over serbia given the fixtures each have, the same with Montengro (Switzwerland) and Belarus (Bosnia). If those three were to get the play off spots it would change things completely with seeding in place. Taking Sweden out of the equation as best qualifiers, there would be a distinct difference between the remainder.

If push came to shove I'd take Turkey, I think we could cope with them, same with Norway if it came to pass they were 2nd. Group F & H are the ones to avoid.
In saying all that, if we keep up our road performances, nobody will want to draw us.

[Stuttgart88]

They'd all be winnable, but also very losable. We need to win the group.

NI are in a funny position. They look to be in a poor position but could very easily get second.

What's the Nazi gold chant?

[Kingdom]

They'd all be winnable, but also very losable. We need to win the group.

NI are in a funny position. They look to be in a poor position but could very easily get second.

What's the Nazi gold chant?

I think there's definitely a hierarchy (for the want of a better word) in who could come second. There's a couple (won't mention them for fear of jinxies) who I'd fancy us time and again against.
As it stands for the North, a draw against Serbia and solidity against the Faroes and Estonia could see them going to Italia knowing they'll come second with nothing to lose. Nice wouldn't it?

As for the Nazi gold, anyone that was in Basel in 03 will remember the smugness with the fake flags and the "Hopp Schweiz" bleating around the ground with 15 mins to go. The worst feeling I've ever had following our lads on the road. Maybe the circumstances of the day had as much to do with it. Anywho, there was a genuinely witty Irish chant that bellowed from our end along the lines of "....where's your nazi gold etc". Nasty? Certainly. Childish? Definitely. Cheaply satisfying. Sure. Did it resonate with the Swiss? Course not, they were going to Portugal, we weren't.

[jbyrne]

On another Irish footie forum, the Irish team, the Aviva, and a combination of the two have been blamed on a poor atmosphere in D4.

the problem to date with the stadium has been that its only been half full most of the time and fans are too spread out. i also believe that attempts to create atmosphere over the last 10 years have actually had the opposite effect. you cant get atmosphere going before hand or even after we score as the fans are drowned out by terrible, unnecessary and inappropriate music. it wasnt broke pre 2003 when the FAI introduced items like the carlsberg band, post score music etc so it baffles me why they have introduced what they have done.

hopefully a sell-out stadium on a balmy sept friday night vs. slovakia will get the atmosphere going again. to be sure maybe someone could lock the stadium PA into his car for the night. wishful thinking

[Stuttgart88]

I'll never forget Frei's goal celebration. If I was Kinsella I'd have decked him.

[Kingdom]

the problem to date with the stadium has been that its only been half full most of the time and fans are too spread out. i also believe that attempts to create atmosphere over the last 10 years have actually had the opposite effect. you cant get atmosphere going before hand or even after we score as the fans are drowned out by terrible, unnecessary and inappropriate music. it wasnt broke pre 2003 when the FAI introduced items like the carlsberg band, post score music etc so it baffles me why they have introduced what they have done.

hopefully a sell-out stadium on a balmy sept friday night vs. slovakia will get the atmosphere going again. to be sure maybe someone could lock the stadium PA into his car for the night. wishful thinking

I know the SS doesn't envelope everyone, some like me love it. Others detest it. Something everyone seems to all agree on is that the PA, Declan King I believe, is doing something wrong. From what I've heard, that's a view shared from up top, but despite many discussions on the issue, nothing has been done.
Playlists for before the game, and at halftime have been presented to the FAI, but still nothing.

I don't share your opinion JB that all will be alright if the music etc was dropped. If the people of pre 2003 were in the ground, possibly, but they're not. A lot of new people came with Croker, and it's been for the worse.

[jbyrne]

I don't share your opinion JB that all will be alright if the music etc was dropped. If the people of pre 2003 were in the ground, possibly, but they're not. A lot of new people came with Croker, and it's been for the worse.

i dont believe it would sort it either but it would help.

there is no incentive to get the atmosphere going before the game as we are blared out of it and if there was a good atmosphere before ko more people would arrive earlier and the whole atmosphere could build from there. my memory of my first few matches back in the late 80s is that there was no music pre match (except the garda band that played stuff the crowd sang along to) and the place was rocking for the 10 mins before the teams came out. doesnt happen now and the teams come out to a half empty stadium as there is nothing to turn up early for. all just my opinion really

[Kingdom]

i dont believe it would sort it either but it would help.

there is no incentive to get the atmosphere going before the game as we are blared out of it and if there was a good atmosphere before ko more people would arrive earlier and the whole atmosphere could build from there. my memory of my first few matches back in the late 80s is that there was no music pre match (except the garda band that played stuff the crowd sang along to) and the place was rocking for the 10 mins before the teams came out. doesnt happen now and the teams come out to a half empty stadium as there is nothing to turn up early for. all just my opinion really

Is the kick off times anything to do with it?
I think most fans have an idea of what time they're gonna leave the pub at, and regardless of congestion, circumstance etc, that's what they do.

[jbyrne]

Is the kick off times anything to do with it?
I think most fans have an idea of what time they're gonna leave the pub at, and regardless of congestion, circumstance etc, that's what they do.

maybe they would leave the pub earlier if they knew the pre match atmosphere was going to be better than it is now. away match pre match atmosphere is always excellent and you dont see loads of fans arriving just before KO as they dont want to miss the atmosphere. i genuinely believe if the FAI reverted back to what they did on match day pre 2003 it would make at least some difference

[Kingdom]

maybe they would leave the pub earlier if they knew the pre match atmosphere was going to be better than it is now. away match pre match atmosphere is always excellent and you dont see loads of fans arriving just before KO as they dont want to miss the atmosphere. i genuinely believe if the FAI reverted back to what they did on match day pre 2003 it would make at least some difference

Not trying to be picky, but I don't think the two comparisons are fair. Away supporters are the hard core (most of the time) and will be making a racket anyway. Away supporters also know that getting into foreign grounds can be a hassle either finding them or being messed about by stewards (as we experienced in Macedonia, and I was sober) therefore allow plenty of time too. Finally they've taken the time to travel to the game and probably have been on the gatt for 24 hours or more, therefore the need for that one last pint isn't as great.
Whereas home supporters are more casual (not to generalise but you probably get my drift) or are going to the game after a few jars and the urge to down an extra one or two is greater.

The real reason is probably somewhere in the middle of our two stances, but I really feel there is a flaw amongst our support.

[rebelmusic]

Out of curiousity, was there ever buses organised to bring people from around the country to matches? I'd love to go to every Ireland game but realistically, it's 60-70 bucks of petrol, the ticket price and then another 80-100 for a hotel which is the bones of 250 notes and then a few pints on top of that! I love irish soccer above all other sport but it's too much to spend. If there was a bus to the stadium for 20 quid up and down i'd be there most games.

[BonnieShels]

Out of curiousity, was there ever buses organised to bring people from around the country to matches? I'd love to go to every Ireland game but realistically, it's 60-70 bucks of petrol, the ticket price and then another 80-100 for a hotel which is the bones of 250 notes and then a few pints on top of that! I love irish soccer above all other sport but it's too much to spend. If there was a bus to the stadium for 20 quid up and down i'd be there most games.

I know a lad in here who can do it even quicker and cheaper by plane... stall the digger whilst I dig out the details...

[geysir]

Just looking at that and I'd have to agree that the very least you'd expect Sweden to finish with is 24 points in the group (18 points in the second-place rankings table). And that would include a loss against Holland in Sweden. They've got Hungary, San Marino and Finland away otherwise. If they slipped up and drew with either Hungary or Finland and went on to lose to Holland, we'd have a very realistic chance, but it's not really that likely, is it?

It's not a write off just yet.
2 wins would be enough for Sweden, but I fancy they will get one win and 2 draws, 17 points at best.
Hungary are still in with a shout and gave Holland a big fright in Amsterdam despite missing a few players suspended.
Finland always have a chance at home and the Dutch will still be up for the last game.

[DannyInvincible]

There's been talk of NI making second in their group. I wonder would NI fans boycott a play-off game in Lansdowne? Hmm...

[rebelmusic]

I know a lad in here who can do it even quicker and cheaper by plane... stall the digger whilst I dig out the details...

From Cork - how could he fly back the same night?

[gastric]

In an ideal world we'd have a successful and entertaining team. It's not an ideal world. We've been sub-standard for 8 years now and I for one am happy to place priority on results. If it doesn't capture the imagination of the casually interested public that doesn't bother me one bit.

We played very entertaining football under Mick. His team selections were imaginative and you always felt he knew who all the available players were. He secured 3 play-off places, including one success. But even before Saipan half the country were calling him a fool and wanted him out - even when he had virtually nothing to work with. It just seems to me that nobody is happy - ever.

I'm not brushing under the carpet the question of whether a less dogmatic approach than Trap's may yield results, but marks for artistic merit aren't awarded by UEFA, only points earned for winning & drawing matches.

Stutts, Another excellent post. Personally, a performance where I really felt completely and utterly involved emotionally was the infamous night in Paris. Our performance was brave, we played attractive football and no neutral spectator could not but support this small country in its efforts to qualify for the biggest sporting event in the world.

I am a child of the 80s where the team did not play attractive football - 'the long ball' era but captivated the nation. It was a time where we began to feel dreams do come true and it started like your name says - in Stuttgart in 88. A time I will never forget!

But to come to my point. An economist, I can't remember who, claimed that the confidence gained from this experience helped pull the economy out of recession in the 80s. Perhaps if this present team can again captivate the nation, it can next year give the country the confidence it so badly needs presently.