Player eligibility row

[EalingGreen]

Deleted

[Newryrep]

............................So nobody knows what CAS arbitrate on then

[dantheman]

Everyone accepts that Duffy is entitled, via his Da, to play for ROI. However, the reason why this has flared up again is twofold. First, we have invested an enormous amount of capital in Duffy, who to all appearances was (at least) relatively happy to play for us.

EG you are a well articulated, but somewhat deluded, poster. How much money? Figures please

However, he looks to have had his head turned at a very late stage by a high-level intervention by the FAI/Brady.

Not according to his father

Such an intervention is "raising the stakes", regardless of his ancestral eligibility.

Only to deluded Unionists in the north, harking back for the days of the sealed border

Second, as many as five(?) members of a current ROI under-age squad are NI-born. Quite honestly, we could have coped with the odd Saul Deeney or Henry McStay in the past, for the sake of good relations (if nothing else). But this now risks getting way too serious to ignore.

Why don't you deal with good relations in your own jurisdiction before lecturing others? You are still ignoring the aspirations of nearly half the people of your own part of the island.

You have done nothing to begin to address the root cause, the behaviour of your own association & fans.

Lead by example. Remember the problem is the IFA's and the IFA's alone! If you wish to make friends and influence people, you have a lot to learn!!

[EalingGreen]

The closest you get is when players are required to prove their identity, not their nationality, to the match delegate as per match regulations. FIFA require a passport for this purpose. However, that does not need to be the passport relating to the particular country you are playing for as confirmed by FIFA in 2006 following the Irish Governments intervention when the IFA tried to force NI players to carry British Passports.
The only time a player/association may be required to prove nationality is if an opposing team challenge the eligibity of a player following a game.

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

In fact, you could not be more wrong if you tried*.

Do not make me go back into the Archives, but I trust my memory (on this topic, at least) to be able to put the record straight.

Basically, a problem originally arose in an underage tournament in europe (Germany?), not involving either NI or ROI. At such tournaments, players have to produce their Passport as evidence of identity - essentially to prevent "ringers" or over-age players etc.

However, one kid who had dual nationality presented his "wrong" Passport, which caused an officious Match Commissioner (incorrectly) to query his identity/eligibility.

Consequently, in an effort to avoid future confusion, FIFA sent out one of their regular Circulars to all their Members directing that players must produce the Passport of the country they are representing. Upon receiving their copy, someone at the IFA immediately realised that this would cause severe problems for many of our players.

And in an unusally swift move (by their usual glacial standards), they contacted FIFA as a matter of urgency, and received an explicit dispensation that NI players could produce either a UK or an ROI Passport, entirely as they wished.

From what I recall, the entire process from Circular to Dispensation took less than 96 hours. Unfortunately, however, that was sufficient time for the issue to get into the public domain, wherein certain politicians both in the Dail (Ahern?) and in Stormont (Pat Ramsey) seized the opportunity to make malicious political capital in their customary "outraged", but misplaced tone.

Indeed, even after the IFA had received their communication from FIFA, these same politicians were still attempting to claim the "credit", despite the sum total of their efforts amounting to little more than a few newspaper headlines and an instruction to the Irish Ambassador to Switzerland to "sort it out" etc. (On this latter, the issue was resolved, by letter, before anyone from the Embassy even got to arrange a meeting with FIFA!).

The phrase "pigs" and "grunts" springs to mind - especially wrt the porcine-proportioned Ramsey.

Anyhow, the situation remained unchanged from that which had always obtained from 1921: namely, as far as the IFA is concerned, NI players may travel/play on a UK Passport, an Irish Passport, another Passport entirely, or some combination of the three.

Or are we to add this "IFA demands British Passports" myth to the already long list of canards about our team, which (presumably) are dreamed up by our detractors to tarnish our name and/or justify their own prejudices?


* - You're not trying, are you?

[EalingGreen]

Except with the exception of Paul Butler (ex-Wolves, Leeds, Oldham), who qualified by marriage, no-one who's not eligible for a passport (or team) via the usual family links has ever played for Ireland, AFAIK. Unlike a Herr.M.Taylor.....

Butler was, as you say, an isolated exception. Maik Taylor was also an isolated exception. However, since the latter's debut, the IFA haved moved with the other three "Home" Associations to close the loophole whereby Big Maik qualified for us, so his case could not be repeated, even if we, or a player, wanted.
Does the same disbarment now apply to any future Paul Butlers?

P.S. Your may think your snide reference to "Herr Taylor" is clever. However, he qualified for a UK Passport by virtue of his British father, who happened to be stationed in Germany as a soldier at the time of Maik's birth. Further, Maik himself served in the British Army for a period before leaving to take up football full-time. Therefore, his authenticity as a citizen of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and (ahem) Northern Ireland", rather than the Federal Republic of Germany, cannot be in any doubt.

And virtually no-one in Ireland refers to it, except in the occasional misguided sporting context , as The 'Republic', FFS.

According to FIFA, the official name of the international football team is "Republic of Ireland":
http://www.fifa.com/associations/ass...r=m/index.html
And I think you'll even find these people use that designation from time-to-time, though not on every occasion, as mandated by FIFA:

http://www.fai.ie/

[EalingGreen]

1. These are Irish men wanting to play for Ireland! They have as much right as anyone in Donegal, Dublin or Dingle to play for THEIR country. Have people from the south of the country really developed such a "Free State mindset" these days?

Aye and they have as much right eg to an education in the South, or dole money, or a Pension, or Healthcare, or to elect or reject the Government in the South etc etc etc.
No difference in their citizenship at all, I'd say...

2. The Northern Ireland say they want to keep these players but they do nothing what so ever accommodate them - infact they have done the opposite - they introduce blue highlights to there home shirt, the continue to use the Ulster Banner flag as "their flag" despite it being a symbol of Loyalism in the six counties and they continue to sing God Save the Queen prior to games!!

Oh ffs! Or are you really saying that the IFA introduced blue trim on their shirts to p1ss off Nationalists? I've heard some crap in my time, but that takes the biscuit.
FYI, (St. Patrick's) Blue has been associated with the IFA at least as long as (Emerald) Green. Indeed, Irish/Northern Irish teams traditionally used to play in blue shirts, until they decided to switch to green, in order to avoid clashing with their regular opponents, Scotland (around 1930?).
As for the flag, we originally used the official flag of NI, before switching to the NI flag (UB). Now that the NI flag no longer has official status (since 1972), would you prefer that we revert to the Union flag?
As for the anthem, I know that many NI fans, including myself, would like to see it replaced. By contrast, none of us would like to see our emerald green shirts replaced, still less the Celtic Cross, with shamrocks, which proudly adorns the shirt. Maybe because such overtly British symbolism also p1sses off our Nationalist neighbours?

As long as they want to play for us they should be welcomed and encouraged.
If they IFA want to continue likes its a "Protestant country for a Protestant people" then who can blame these kids??

You really don't have a clue, do you?
This whole dispute is over the IFA wanting to pick players from a Catholic/Nationalist background. If we only wanted a "Protestant" [sic] team, we wouldn't care about the likes of Gibson or Duffy playing for another team.
By contrast, the FAI, which proclaims it is open to ALL people born on the island nonetheless only approaches players in NI who are from a Nationalist/Catholic background.
And we are the ones who are dubbed "sectarian".
Jeez, you couldn't make it up...

[ifk101]

By contrast, the FAI, which proclaims it is open to ALL people born on the island nonetheless only approaches players in NI who are from a Nationalist/Catholic background.

Evidence please.

And we are the ones who are dubbed "sectarian".
Jeez, you couldn't make it up...

Provide evidence for the highlighted quote above and let the rest of us make our own judgements based on that evidence.

[EalingGreen]

and even Mr Parker mentioned that FIFA were trying to insist the NI players hold British passports a few years ago.

Wrong! Without even considering the implications for the Irish situation, FIFA merely required that players with Dual Nationality should present the Passport of the country they were representing when requested i.e. as an administrative convenience.
When the IFA saw this, they immediately moved to gain dispensation for those of our players who do not possess/want a UK Passport (see my post #214, above).

[EalingGreen]

Re the passport id thing, either FIFA gave out the instruction that the player must produce the passport of the team he is playing for, or the IFA instructed (or both) that their players must have a UK passport. Either way FIFA adjusted to the Irish situation to accept that a player can have the "wrong" passport and still be fully eligible.

It was FIFA who requested it, the IFA didn't want such an instruction in any shape or form (see my post #214)

Either way FIFA adjusted to the Irish situation

Indeed, but only following a submission by the IFA (alone), who did not want to see any of their players forced to acquire a UK Passport against their will.

[EalingGreen]

It is time to return to one team representing the Island of Ireland.

Then you shouldn't have broken away in the first place.

But I daresay if you apply to be readmitted to the IFA, such application will be treated with all the merit it deserves...

We do not have all this aggro with the Rugby team as to who plays for who.

Then why not go off and be a rugby fan, then? Personally, I couldn't care less what they do in other sports - and I say that as someone who was at Twickenham on Saturday!

With one team representing Ireland all this aggro about who plays for who will go away.

In common with my fellow NI fans, I no more want an all-Ireland team than I want eg an all-UK one. As "Northern Ireland", we have proudly existed for nearly 90 years, and as "Ireland" for 40 years before that.

As an ROI fan, you might be happy to see your team disappear*, but we have far too much self-respect and pride in our team to see ours cease to exist - "IFA - Original and (George) Best!"

* - Unless, of course, you actually are demanding that our team be disbanded, to merely be annexed by yours? Surely not?

[Predator]

You really don't have a clue, do you?
This whole dispute is over the IFA wanting to pick players from a Catholic/Nationalist background. If we only wanted a "Protestant" [sic] team, we wouldn't care about the likes of Gibson or Duffy playing for another team.
By contrast, the FAI, which proclaims it is open to ALL people born on the island nonetheless only approaches players in NI who are from a Nationalist/Catholic background.
And we are the ones who are dubbed "sectarian".
Jeez, you couldn't make it up...

EG, are you suggesting that the FAI are actively sectarian in their selection policy, because they select players who actually want to play for them? If so, can you substantiate that? How many people from a Unionist/Protestant background do you know that would like to play for ROI instead of NI?

Hypothetically speaking, were you a talented footballer (you possibly were/are for all I know!), would you express an interest in playing for the FAI by attending in a training camp and/or contacting them about a trial or changing (things which Duffy, the McEleney brothers, Daniel Kearns and Daniel Devine have all recently done)?

I feel that despite the FAI's ability to select players born in the north, the root of the problem remains the image of the IFA and the Northern Ireland team (and perhaps moreso the actual socio-political climate of the north). If the Northern Ireland team was such that young players from a nationalist background grew up supporting and dreaming of playing for them, then naturally, we'd see less players with a preference to play for ROI.

[EalingGreen]

I stated that it was the IFA who tried to insist on British Passports. It was FIFA's intervention at the request of the Irish Government that clarified the situation.

And you were copmpletely wrong, on both counts - spectacularly so, in fact! (See my post #214)

[Paddy Garcia]

Deleted

Last edited by EalingGreen; 01/03/2010 at 3:08 PM. Reason: Duplication

Ay, duplicated from a post you made last year. One of those telling us to wait for an imminent intervention (that time FIFA) preventing those in N Ireland playing for Ireland. It did not happen then & it won't happen now.


To your point about the FAI only approaching catholic players, do you really think this is sectarian?

Either we are mercenaries or we aren't - you can't have it both ways. Actually we don't care what their religion is. If they want to play for us, are any good and entitled to then why would we not have them!

Re developing players - you are doing the very same thing today with lads from England - wake up!

[kingdomkerry]

I think the days of northern catholics/nationalists playing for NI are gone (there will be exceptions). If the IFA want to change this they should 1. Bring in a neutral anthem that is acceptable to everone in the six counties, develop a new flag for NI which is acceptable to all in the 6 counties, ban GSTQ, ban unionist flags, develop a stadium in a non loyalist area or 2. support an All Ireland team or 3. leave things the way they are and you will have a situation where we have a UI team "Ireland" and a loyalist team "Little Rangers/NI". Its their pick.

Comparing the anthem situation with the rugby is ridiculous. If you take the Irish anthem it is accepted by all in the 26 counties, where as english anthem is not accepted by close to half in the 6 counties and nobody in the 26 and righly so after what was done to our country by the britsh/english government.

[dantheman]

As for the anthem, I know that many NI fans, including myself, would like to see it replaced.

Groundhog day....
I see you have ignored this question many, many times. IT WILL NOT GO AWAY.

How many times have we heard this? That you like the idea of changing it?
And what is being done about it? Nothing!

What are you doing about it Ealing Green?
What are the IFA doing about it?
What are the fans doing about it?

Nada.

Do us all a favour and save us the hot air until you come back with action on the ground.
For Christ sake act like men and put your money where your mouth is.

You all know its a major issue. Why the paralysis?

Afraid of change?
Afraid its the slippery slope to eternal damnation?

Insecure about your identity?
Hmmm...maybe that's it

Jeez, you couldn't make it up...