Player eligibility row

[fhtb]

That's fair enough.

But to remove politics from sport in any region of conflict is unfortunately naive. The IFA et al want to maintain their 'status quo', Nationalists naturally want more freedom to represent what they feel represents them. That is the 'Green-white-and-gold', as opposed to 'Red-white-and-blue'.
If all the North's fans were all apolitical fair enough, but have only ever met one person ever from there who had no strong feelings about who should govern the North. Even the Alliance Party has more voters FFS.


The unionists' 'mates' in the Brit.establishment created this 'Divide-and-rule' mentality, so maybe break off yer yokes of, er, slavery and blame them!
That's why Irish nationalists are reluctant to accept their satellite presence on the island. That and the small matter of 800 years!!

As said elsewhere, come back in maybe a couple of generations? That's your only hope.

This post is everything that is wrong with your opinion in my eyes. Leave your politics at the gate, that's all we ask.

Far from being naive, it's the pragmatic, workable thing to do.

[ifk101]

Regarding wanting the current rules changed I was speaking from a personal pov

Sorry but I'm sure you'll find it was the FAI who had most recently joined FIFA - and in any case it's the effect that is the same - players from one jurisdiction opting for another despite not meeting any of the 3 fundamental criteria. It's these 3 cases which must be protected, not the incorrectly perceived 'right' that political citizenship should grant players a by ball.

No, you'll find that it was the IFA that joined FIFA in the 1950s. And I recommend you have a read of the eligibility statutes.

[ArdeeBhoy]

This post is everything that is wrong with your opinion in my eyes. Leave your politics at the gate, that's all we ask.

Far from being naive, it's the pragmatic, workable thing to do.

For a miniscule minority maybe. You need to change collective mindsets before people change their opinions. For some games at Croke, the nos. of Nats.coming to the capital must be close to the nos.going to watch the North. You need to address this idealistic view to them.
Somehow, for reasons stated above, I think you may be too late!

[dantheman]

It's actually a British national anthem but we'd like to see (and the IFA are working on this) a specifically Northern Irish one.

Any details on this? Or yet more hot air.....

[ArdeeBhoy]

How long does it take to implement 'Danny Boy', or even 'The Sash' ?? At least they'd both be unique to the Six Counties.

[DannyInvincible]

First off nats continue to represent our team with no difficulty. Secondly no player who has been tapped by the Dark Side has said politics was a reason for doing so.

...

Playing and supporting are completely separate issues. In the same way the 3 fundamental eligibility criteria and the concept of citizenship are. Citizenship is not a license to do what you want.

...

And the ranting about citizenship is a moot point anyway as FIFA is not a political organisation. It did not sign up to the GFA. FIFA can make up whatever rules it likes.

The matter of nationality is, by its nature, a political reason, is it not? You're correct; citizenship doesn't give you licence to do what you like. No-one is suggesting it does, but it does accord you rights and recognition. And FIFA are a body who recognise citizenship as according you the right to play for your national football team, so I don't see why you view all this "ranting" about citizenship as being irrelevant. Let's dispel that notion once and for all. So what if FIFA didn't sign up to the GFA? It doesn't sign up to any other international agreements between states but it still appears to be generally guided by them as far as its policies and statutes go. Why wouldn't it therefore recognise the unique constitutional status of Northern Ireland? Why don't you recognise it or that it is only reasonable that it should come into play here?

If you want nothing to do with those with "political baggage" and seem keen to mention the idea that it's a free world, then why not leave these individuals with "political baggage" outside "the gate" and get on with who you do wish to accommodate? Those left outside have the choice and freedom to go elsewhere; be happy for them.

What are these "three fundamental eligibility criteria" of which you speak anyway? Aren't these the criteria that apply here?:

Article 15 Principle
1 Any person holding the nationality of a country is eligible to play for
the representative teams of the Association of that country. The
Executive Committee shall decide on the conditions of eligibility
for any Player who has not played international football in accordance
with par. 2 below, and either acquires a new nationality or is
eligible to play for the teams of more than one Association due to
his nationality.
2 With the exception of the conditions specified in par. 3 and 4 below,
any Player who has already represented one Association in a match
(either in full or in part) in an official competition of any category or
any type of football may not play an international match for a representative
team of another Association.
3 If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new
nationality, or if a Player is eligible to play for several Associations’
teams due to nationality, he may, up to his 21st birthday, request
to change the Association for which he is eligible to play international
matches to the Association of another country of which he
holds nationality, subject to the following conditions:
(a) He has not played a match (either in full or in part) at “A” international
level for his current Association, and if at the time of his
first full or partial appearance in an international match in an
official competition for his current Association, he already had
the nationality of the Association’s team for which he wishes to
play.
(b) He is not permitted to play for his new Association in any competition
in which he has already played for his previous Association.
A player may exercise this right only once.
60
VII. ELIGIBILITY TO PLAY FOR ASSOCIATION TEAMS
4 If a Player who has been fielded by his Association in an international
match in accordance with par. 2 above permanently loses the
nationality of that country without his consent or against his will due
to a decision by a government authority, he may request permission
to play for another Association whose nationality he already has
or has acquired.
5 Any Player who has the right to change Associations in accordance
with par. 3 and 4 above shall submit a written, substantiated request
to the FIFA general secretariat. The Players’ Status Committee shall
decide on the request. The procedure will be in accordance with the
Rules Governing the Procedures of the Players’ Status Committee
and the Dispute Resolution Chamber. Once the player has filed his
request, he is not eligible to play for any Association team until his
request has been processed.

And there is no "current consensus". What on earth are you talking about? If anything, the current consensus is that the rules are fine as they are. Their existence would be under serious threat otherwise. And, as it stands, I believe it's only the IFA who have been making a big deal about them. That's not "current consensus". Maybe on that insular little forum you frequent, but, no, not really anywhere else, I think you'll find.

With all due respect if I was approached by Pele tomorrow I'd find a surprisingly strong personal identification with Brazil.

Professional footballers do what is necessary for their careers, including opting for the perceived best option with regard to international football. The "I've always felt [x nationality] and proud of it" media circus thereafter is mere PR window dressing for the fans. It's also predictable guff that happens to fill copy for the media. Win win. Duffy was on record as saying he was proud to represent NI too. If a reporter asks you a question, you're not going to say "yeah to be honest I'm not really arsed one way or the other" are you?

Don't be so presumptious. What pointless speculation. As far as I'm aware, Duffy said he was happy to represent Northern Ireland, as in content to do so at the time. Pride is something completely different. You've been asked to provide reference for this, which should be easy enough seeing as it's apparently "on record".

Football in Northern Ireland is a diverse entity - it reflects all aspects of society here.

Oh really?

Football for all... on our terms, and you are all fucking subject to them!

At present I think FIFA put their hands over their ears and just allowed the most proactive association, in this case the FAI, to get on with it.

But you know that's a lie. Wasn't it the IFA who were proactive in raising the issue to FIFA, who then told them, pretty simply, that they were wrong in their interpretation of the rules?

[DannyInvincible]

The one that allows the FAI to believe they're allowed to pick players who do not meet the standard 3 criteria set out in the FIFA rulebook.[sic]

Hold on a minute. That's not what you were initially saying the current consensus was, you snake. Of course, it is the general consensus that the FAI are correct in calling up Irish players born on this island as per FIFA's interpretation of its own rules. You, however, were saying the current consensus was for FIFA to amend its interpretation of its own rules.

[Mr_Parker]

Another reason to snub the IFA?
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/su...#ixzz0hXSzvxm6


The word 'bitter' (and *****) springs to mind.

In fairness, that is one of the worst-written articles I've ever seen. No direct quotes from anybody, and it's not even a logical suggestion that the IFA would do it to spite the FAI.

Agree, it has more to do with the journalist trying to twist things to his agenda rather than the IFA on this occassion. Same journalist has been writing nonsense on the FIFA Articles for years now, despite his errors being pointed out to him, he continues to do so.

[seanfhear]

Whats the Orange Orders view on this issue. They seem to control the Unionist political parties so it would not surprise me if they also control the IFA.

Posters on "OWC" website constantly referring to the fellow Irishmen/Nationalists of their prospective Nationalist players as the "Beggars" is not exactly going to encourage players from a nationalist background that they are wanted to represent NI.

Are their any moderators on that site savvy enough to put a stop to such name calling. If I were a talented player from a nationlist background I would get the impression that these posters that call my fellow Nationalists "Beggars" were not genuine about wanting me in their team.

[DannyInvincible]

Whats the Orange Orders view on this issue. They seem to control the Unionist political parties so it would not surprise me if they also control the IFA.

I believe the IFA pledge allegiance to God, Queen and Country, first and foremost, and then comes the Orange Order...

[DannyInvincible]

Just like how the FAI is governed from Rome.

[seanfhear]

Just like how the FAI is governed from Rome.

Most of us are well and truly fed up with priests and bishops. They are keeping their heads down and are not so quick to pontificate now (about time too)

Orange men in NI continue to strut their stuff though. Is their any organisation up their that they do not pull the strings of. How many Orange men at the top of the IFA.

[DannyInvincible]

Most of us are well and truly fed up with priests and bishops. They are keeping their heads down and are not so quick to pontificate now (about time too)

Orange men in NI continue to strut their stuff though. Is their any organisation up their that they do not pull the strings of. How many Orange men at the top of the IFA.

I was being facetious with my reference to Rome. Just surrealist sarcasm. Of course FAI policy has nothing to do with the Catholic Church.

As for the IFA, well, I dunno. I just don't think we have to resort to conspiracy theories and unverifiable accusations here. I, personally, find it somewhat embarrassing. It's not like the IFA exercise a "no Catholics" policy or something. What would make you think they're an Orangeist organisation? It's just such a bizarre accusation. I'm not saying sectarianism and community division don't exist any longer in Northern Ireland, but "strutting their stuff" and "pulling the strings"?... There are checks and balances in place to at least keep an eye on such carry-on nowadays. Maybe I'm being naive but I really don't think the IFA would get away with introducing Orangeism into its manifesto. Any explicit show of influence would be roundly condemned, and by those even within the Northern Irish footballing fraternity - whether from the nationalist community or the unionist community - no doubt.

I don't know why I'm even entertaining the notion with a response.

[geysir]

Playing and supporting are completely separate issues
In the same way the 3 fundamental eligibility criteria and the concept of citizenship are.

No matter what way I read that, it makes no sense.

Citizenship is not a license to do what you want. Irish citizens resident in NI cannot vote in the Republic. Does this mean the Dublin government is also guilty of the discrimination the IFA has been accused of supporting?

Is there a point or argument anywhere? No member of the Irish football team can vote in an Irish election but an EU national can, if resident in ireland. Voting eligibility is primarily a residence thing, not citizenship dependent.
What has that eligibility or non eligibility to vote got to do with anything?

No, the fact is citizenship is quite a loose term (made looser still in this case by the ignorance of national borders

That fact you refer to, is actually an irrational opinion. fact!
Irish citizenship is not a loose thing, it is a clearly defined state and the main eligibility criteria - for automatic citizenship - has been democratically and constitutionally accepted by the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland and also drafted into the irish constitution. Citizenship is used by FIFA to determine eligibility. Here there are 2 clearly defined Citizenships, one is automatic the other is acquired.
An automatic citizenship not dependant on residence or blood, automatic citizenship demonstrates enough of a connection to an Association by FIFA to be automatically eligible for that national team.
Acquired citizenship needs blood or residence ties.

To see that dynamic being single-handedly destroyed by an outside organisation makes me sick to the pit of my stomach.

Your pit of the stomach ailments are probably more due to suppression of angry emotions. Life was simpler when we were kids, we just played football and let it all out.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Whats the Orange Orders view on this issue. They seem to control the Unionist political parties so it would not surprise me if they also control the IFA.

Posters on "OWC" website constantly referring to the fellow Irishmen/Nationalists of their prospective Nationalist players as the "Beggars" is not exactly going to encourage players from a nationalist background that they are wanted to represent NI.

Are their any moderators on that site savvy enough to put a stop to such name calling. If I were a talented player from a nationlist background I would get the impression that these posters that call my fellow Nationalists "Beggars" were not genuine about wanting me in their team.

Not sure how much remit the OO has within the DUP, though there is a cross-over betweeen their constituency and TUV, but even the most ardent nationalist would query their major influence within the machinations of the IFA.
Except that their current president Raymond Kennedy is an enthusiastic member and supporter of the OO, so I suppose we have the requisite criteria for our own 'paranoia', but he strikes as even more of a buffoon than even the Delaneys of this world, but am welcome to be told different.

As for the label of 'Beggars', this just goes to highlight their own insecurity and rank hypocrisy;Don't forget their colonial theme park has been the net recipient of billions, er, 'Begged' from the Brit. Exchequer, since partition.

And for what? So the natives could be suppressed until recently, but now just to allow a bunch of paranoid fools the right to continue a pointless occupation under the pretext they are the majority, albeit a wholly gerrymandered one....

The label is obviously apt to them, as it allows them to reinforce their traditional triumphalist attitude of 'superiority' to the natives, which is laughable in the main.

Life was simpler when we were kids, we just played football and let it all out.

It would have been simpler still if we hadn't been invaded by our greedy and aggressive neighbours!