Player eligibility row

[geysir]

Yes he qualifies for us, the FAI's territory includes the 6 counties and therefore those descended from those born in the 6 counties qualify for both the IFA and the FAI.

'FAI territory' is that space of land where the new born are automatically entitled to Irish citizenship, not just the piece of land it has football jurisdiction over.

[Predator]

The IFA have been dealt a 'double-whammy' today. The full CAS ruling released, exposing the IFA as being foolish, and another fast-tracked youngster pulling out of their squad.

I wonder will young Barton be castigated in the media and by their fans as severely as Shane Duffy, Darron Gibson and Daniel Kearns were?

[shaneker]

That ruling really does make the IFA (or maybe it's more fair to say the IFA's lawyers) look like total idiots. Their case pretty much amounted to not being able to read. Relying on a 'linguistically strained' (as we in the business say) interpretation of the FIFA Statutes, which made absolutely no sense, and attempting to interpret the 2009 Eligibility regulations in the light of on an informal agreement from SIXTY years ago in an area which has changed out of all recognition in that time, is outright lunacy. A first year law student could see that this was a totally, totally unrealistic position.

It should never have gone this far, but please now it's done.

[Gather round]

I wonder will young Barton be castigated in the media and by their fans as severely as Shane Duffy, Darron Gibson and Daniel Kearns were?

Possibly. I wouldn't waste your sympathy though- if he didn't want to play, he could have told Worthy privately any time in the week between his invitation and the public announcement. It looks like he, or his agent, have deliberately created a story which might help him get a transfer into the Prem. I imagine that's more of a priority for them than an international cap- he's much less likely to get one from England.

[Predator]

Fair point and something I actually overlooked, but how likely is it? These media storms can certainly help to boost the profile of a player, but by how much, I'm not so sure.

Did Barton merit inclusion based on his form? Or is it likely that Worthington included him simply in order to tie him to the IFA? Being cynical, I'd guess that it was the latter and, while I can understand why Worthington would do so, I don't think it is the best course of action - especially when one considers that it has already backfired twice. However, I suppose the IFA will feel that the odd media storm in a teacup can be tolerated if it means one talented youth gets tied.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I wouldn't be surprised if PNE were in the lads ear to hang about. Worth way more to them as a future England international than pretty much any other nationality out there.

[Gather round]

Fair point and something I actually overlooked, but how likely is it? These media storms can certainly help to boost the profile of a player, but by how much, I'm not so sure

It's certainly been successful, at least as a first step- plenty of nationwide BBC coverage today, not just in NI.

I think teenage footballers are less naive than widely assumed- and even where they are, almost invariably streetwise agents are about.

Did Barton merit inclusion based on his form? Or is it likely that Worthington included him simply in order to tie him to the IFA? Being cynical, I'd guess that it was the latter and, while I can understand why Worthington would do so, I don't think it is the best course of action - especially when one considers that it has already backfired twice. However, I suppose the IFA will feel that the odd media storm in a teacup can be tolerated if it means one talented youth gets tied.

On form, I'd say no. He's played 11 games in D2, I believe. People like McCann and Feeney, although now dropped down a level, are more experienced which we'll need against Italy. And realistically Worthy can't take the Faeroes lightly, even if the players do. We'd be quite pleased to scrape a 1-0 win. So no rush of debuts for fringe players there.

Agree that the manager is being cynical and I too think it unwise. I suppose the justification would be that with such a small pool we have to try everything.

As I'm sure you'll agree, no-one is strictly tied: if they can't be bothered to commit, like S. Ireland or Biggles McCartney, they'll just bugger off. The players just don't seem as hardcore as you or I

I wouldn't be surprised if PNE were in the lads ear to hang about. Worth way more to them as a future England international than pretty much any other nationality out there

Perhaps, but the realistic alternatives were him leaving Preston in January as a NI international, or as just another promising D2 youngster. Capello won't cap a championship player, except maybe as a keeper in a brainstorm.

[ifk101]

Did Barton merit inclusion based on his form? Or is it likely that Worthington included him simply in order to tie him to the IFA? Being cynical, I'd guess that it was the latter and, while I can understand why Worthington would do so, I don't think it is the best course of action - especially when one considers that it has already backfired twice. However, I suppose the IFA will feel that the odd media storm in a teacup can be tolerated if it means one talented youth gets tied.

That's my line of thinking as well (ie tie him to NI asap) which I suspected was also the case with Johnny Gorman's inclusion in the NI squad for the game against Slovenia.

There was a video interview with Nigel yesterday on the BBC site where he said he last talked to Adam Barton six weeks ago to gauge his interest in playing for the NI seniors (Barton was subsequently contacted by Beaglehole 10 days - 2 weeks ago to tell him he was in the squad). If I'm not mistaken it was just six weeks ago that Barton was coming into the Preston first team. Therefore I don't think Nigel's initial approach had anything to do with Barton's "current" league form. Similar to the capping of Johnny Gorman with a minute to go in a competitive fixture, Barton's inclusion in the squad was to tie him down to NI before the beggars came a knocking.

It's probable that with Shane Duffy and the CAS ruling, Nigel and the IFA believe this is the approach they need to take from now on - ie cap them young and early.

[geysir]

You hardly ever hear a car backfiring these days but the IFA are bucking the trend like a mistimed Trabant.

[dantheman]

I reckon there must be an FAI agent somewhere in the IFA Board Of Management.

They bring incompetence to new levels!!

[DannyInvincible]

Sorry, I misread your original post. of course the "unfair" comment was talking about the letters between IFA and FIFA

Does this mean FIFA still view the situation as being unfair on the IFA? Surely if FIFA genuinely thought it unfair, they'd have amended their rules accordingly. They've already redrawn the eligibility rules once since, if I'm not mistaken, and did nothing to ensure a more favourable position for the IFA.

The IFA make a few peculiar assertions.

(Page 5)
In 2006, the FAI was no longer complying with the "1950 FIFA Ruling" and the subsequent accord reached by the two associations. As a matter of fact, it was making approaches to Northern Ireland players who had no birth or residence connection with the territory of the Republic of Ireland.

Is this actually a matter of fact or are the IFA merely claiming it to be a matter of fact? Who are these players, if so, and is there proof of approaches having been made?

(Page 25)
IFA contends that as a matter of fact during the last 60 years there was a harmonious relationship between the two associations, each of which accepted that it should select players exclusively on the basis of a territorial connection and applied this approach without any variation to hundreds, if not thousands, of players.

The FAI were calling up northern-born Irish nationals such as Mark McKeever, Ger Crossley et al nearly a decade prior to 2006.

Overall, a very interesting and enlightening document. Clearly, the so-called "gentleman's aggreement" with the FAI was a figment of the IFA's imagination. From my knowledge of the relationship between the two associations, I had always expected that this was the case, but the judgment pretty much confirms it.

[geysir]

In fact, both Crossley and McKeever had been capped at youth level by NI prior to 1996 when they switched to the FAI.

[DannyInvincible]

Just had a look on OWC to guage reaction and I see the FAI being dubbed a "despicable organisation" for having allegedly refused to agree to previous FIFA attempts to broker a compromise. I find this a bit rich as it must be remembered the IFA also rejected a FIFA attempt to find an amicable solution; a proposal which the FAI actually accepted.

Furthermore, there's a train of thought which suggests that rejection of the appeal mightn't have been so inevitable if the IFA had gone down the line of attempting to argue more conclusively that northern-born Irish nationals qualify to play for Northern Ireland - a solely British team - by virtue of their Irish nationality. I'm not sure anyone could argue such a point any more conclusively seeing as it's a load of contrived and ingenuous nonsense. If the point could have been argued, it would have been.

[geysir]

there's a train of thought which suggests that rejection of the appeal mightn't have been so inevitable if the IFA had gone down the line of attempting to argue more conclusively that northern-born Irish nationals qualify to play for Northern Ireland - a solely British team - by virtue of their Irish nationality. I'm not sure anyone could argue such a point any more conclusively seeing as it's a load of contrived and ingenuous nonsense. If the point could have been argued, it would have been.

It can't be argued because NI is in the UK and only a British/UK national can play for NI.

[Not Brazil]

Overall, a very interesting and enlightening document. Clearly, the so-called "gentleman's aggreement" with the FAI was a figment of the IFA's imagination. From my knowledge of the relationship between the two associations, I had always expected that this was the case, but the judgment pretty much confirms it.

The IFA compound their cringeworthy approach to this whole matter by, seemingly, suffering from amnaesia in their deliberations with FIFA and the CAS about "agreements" made in Belfast on 25th January 1999 with the FAI.