AIPL plans revealed

[eelmonster]

But given the populations of towns like Sligo, Dundalk, and especially Ballybofey, we can be sure that such a crowd will NEVER show up there.

Record attendance at Oriel is 21000 (1979 European Cup 2nd Round v Celtic), and we consistently got crowds in the region of 20000 for European matches at Oriel and 20000+ when played at Dalymount. I'm not sure what the record attendance for a domestic fixture is, but I'd be willing to bet it is is in excess of 10000 -- I'll have a look at Jim Murphy's History of Dundalk FC and let you know. :)

[SwanVsDalton]

Attendance figures from the 70's and 80's are hardly relevant, every club experienced considerably better crowds in those decades than they do now due to no EPL, more interest in local football, less obviously awful facilities etc.

It's also foolhardy to think that any club can realistically regain those figures. The best we can hope for, at the moment, is to increase attendances to around 3-5,000 and keep them there. And at the moment some clubs are in a better position to do that than others. Cherry picking is the obvious, if cruel, result.

[sullanefc]

Norway - 4,743,193 - 14 teams x 2 meetings per season

Following the Norwegian model would also have the benefits of making a straight forward home and away season possible, without confusing potential new customers to Irish football with games played on neutral venues as part or the league, or splitting the league into championship and relegation groups.


You have made a lot of good points, however, having a 14 team league like Norway means a 26 game season. This is simply not enough games (gate receipts) to support clubs.

[Rovers Maniac]

From a few weeks ago

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/local/ifa-end-hopes-of-allireland-league-13898387.html

[Terry]

You have made a lot of good points, however, having a 14 team league like Norway means a 26 game season. This is simply not enough games (gate receipts) to support clubs.


Norway only do the 26 games because of the poor winters they have over a long period of time, here, IF the FAI went for 14 teams, I would say they would have a 39 game season!

[paulie_walnuts]

All in response to the laughable suggestion that because England, Germany and Italy have larger-than-normal premier divisions, so should we.

You mean you haven't realised that everything thats done in England should be copied here because the 'Premiership' is the greatest thing ever!

[paulie_walnuts]

You would want to check your facts in regards to Sligo pulling 10,000 + this has been done in past on quite a few occasions in the past. Dundalk i would say the same but i am not sure. I have to laugh at guys on here who come on stating what the league needs to do without checking facts and in the process of displaying their ignorance want to shut down two of the best and longest establised provincial clubs on the Island (not to mention one that is full time professional and this would be one of main aims of the new league to have all clubs full time).
In the last year we have seen what a fiasco the FAI made promoting Galway ahead of Dundalk, a club which came up because it was seen as the way forward for all clubs but is now that is relying on it's directors just to see out the season before they go back semi professional next year.

Dundalks record crowd is in and around 19000. That was in the 70s. I don't know the population of the town back then but it can't have been much more. Now it is between 30 and 35000. Those huge crowds of the 60s and 70s are never going to be back again. We will struggle to get average gates of over 4 or 5000 anywhere, no matter that gimmicks are pulled, lets be realistic, thanks to the hold English football has on us here, things will not change.

[SMorgan]

From a few weeks ago

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/local/ifa-end-hopes-of-allireland-league-13898387.html


Good to see the IFA clearly setting out their position out.

My concern relates to the Platium One, Fintan Drury and Jim Roddy. I think when the FAI says it is supportive of the idea of an All-Ireland league, I don't think they are saying that they are supportive of handing control over to a self-appointed body with no curent involvement in the league. I'd like to see the FAI and the IFA continue to explore that idea with no reference or input from P1. P1 don't give a toss about domestic football in this country.

[GavinZac]

a self-appointed body with no curent involvement in the league ... P1 don't give a toss about domestic football in this country.18 months ago you could have been talking about the FAI...

[paulie_walnuts]

Teams should be there on merit, not on where they are from.

[jebus]

Sunday Times reporting today that the IFA won't even consider it, and while the FAI were open to discussions initially that the members opposed to it couple with the IFA's stance means that they have to respect the wishes of those who don't want an AIPL. That's that dead in the water then

[SMorgan]

That's great news!!

[SwanVsDalton]

Regardless of the FAI/IFA stance this proposal will rumble on for ages to come. As long as domestic soccer continues to struggle, alternatives will be in the mix.

[jebus]

Regardless of the FAI/IFA stance this proposal will rumble on for ages to come. As long as domestic soccer continues to struggle, alternatives will be in the mix.

Wouldn't matter if Bill Gates came on board to finance Platinum One if the FAI and the IFA don't back it. Uefa won't even consider this league if our associations won't recognise it

[SwanVsDalton]

Wouldn't matter if Bill Gates came on board to finance Platinum One if the FAI and the IFA don't back it. Uefa won't even consider this league if our associations won't recognise it

Agreed. But it won't just disappear from view and just because FAI/IFA don't back it now doesn't mean they won't u-turn on it. I just don't imagine that such a proposal will die as easily as you say. I could see it hibernate for a few years at a time until it re-emerges in a more palatable form...either that or until the associations recognise that desperate times, for their respective leagues, require desperate measures.

[SMorgan]

Agreed. But it won't just disappear from view and just because FAI/IFA don't back it now doesn't mean they won't u-turn on it. I just don't imagine that such a proposal will die as easily as you say. I could see it hibernate for a few years at a time until it re-emerges in a more palatable form...either that or until the associations recognise that desperate times, for their respective leagues, require desperate measures.

I'd love to see the FAI and IFA come together and form an All-Ireland league with two divisions. Platinium One should even be asked to get involve in some form. But at the same time it has to be made clear the well being of the game in this country extends beyond 8 to 10 clubs and that the control of the game will not be handed over to an otherside body.

That's just not on.

[OneRedArmy]

The amount of naivety around negotiation skills and the way business works on this thread is hilarious.

IIRC the English Premiership wasn't initially supported by the English FA.

Don't underplay the strength of Plantinums hand in having a lot of the clubs supporting them.

It may not happen to Platinums timeline or reflect fully their design, but they have successfully planted the idea and combined with the current financial difficulties they have probably succeeded in provoking an acceptance that some kind of major change is required.

All that needs to be worked out is the detail. That might take years, but the main thing is that there has and continues to be movement in the right direction.

[Macy]

Not sure about that, but the point is that it did go forward under the auspices of the FA. It was a breakaway from the Football League, not from the actual National Association. That would be a massive difference with the P1 proposals.

Actually thinking about it, not sure who's showing the naivety - afterall the clubs were much more powerful until they gave up power the FAI. Looks like a very short sighted move by those clubs now wanting to break away again.

[OneRedArmy]

Not sure about that, but the point is that it did go forward under the auspices of the FA. It was a breakaway from the Football League, not from the actual National Association. That would be a massive difference with the P1 proposals.

Actually thinking about it, not sure who's showing the naivety - afterall the clubs were much more powerful until they gave up power the FAI. Looks like a very short sighted move by those clubs now wanting to break away again.My memory was that the EPL strong-armed the FA by threatening a withdrawal of the supporting clubs.

Bear in mind that its generally assumed that large chunks of UEFA's rulebook is ripe for challenge in the European courts.

[jebus]

My memory was that the EPL strong-armed the FA by threatening a withdrawal of the supporting clubs.

They did, and it's to the FA's shame that they let them do so. If the FA had stood firm and said that they breakaway if they want, but they wouldn't get any of the European places and their players wouldn't be allowed represent their international teams (FUFA would have backed this) than how long do you think the threat would have lasted?


Bear in mind that its generally assumed that large chunks of UEFA's rulebook is ripe for challenge in the European courts.

People keep saying that and yet no-one actually challenges these laws, wonder why

[SMorgan]

Actually thinking about it, not sure who's showing the naivety .

I am sure where the naivety is. Its coming P1 side. The document they produced isn't even a basis for serious debate. We've heard all this 10-team lark with no P and R from Roddy during his Derry City days. It appears to me that nobody took him seriously then, and I don't think many people will, now.

In my opinion these guys are wasting their time.

Anybody that thinks that UEFA will give a new league, 2 champion league spots and 2 UEFA Cup spots is sadly delusional.

[pineapple stu]

Interesting aside in the Independent today about yesterday's game between Cobh and Sunderland. Only 3000 went along, prompting McDonnell to note that perhaps the novelty had worn off seeing Sunderland play. If that's the case (and I'm sure there were numerous other reasons why the crowd was that low), there's no way an AIPL would sustain the interest in this country long enough to have even one season with ten fully-pro teams, let alone to keep it going. Nothing in the Platinum One proposals have addressed this (bar that catch all, "marketing"...)

[Dodge]

Interesting aside in the Independent today about yesterday's game between Cobh and Sunderland. Only 3000 went along, prompting McDonnell to note that perhaps the novelty had worn off seeing Sunderland play. If that's the case (and I'm sure there were numerous other reasons why the crowd was that low), there's no way an AIPL would sustain the interest in this country long enough to have even one season with ten fully-pro teams, let alone to keep it going. Nothing in the Platinum One proposals have addressed this (bar that catch all, "marketing"...)

I don't think anyone coulld seriously equate league football to friendlies. Completely nonsensical point stu, not unlike many of Drury's assertions

[A face]

Interesting aside in the Independent today about yesterday's game between Cobh and Sunderland. Only 3000 went along, prompting McDonnell to note that perhaps the novelty had worn off seeing Sunderland play. If that's the case (and I'm sure there were numerous other reasons why the crowd was that low), there's no way an AIPL would sustain the interest in this country long enough to have even one season with ten fully-pro teams, let alone to keep it going. Nothing in the Platinum One proposals have addressed this (bar that catch all, "marketing"...)

The reason it was low was because it was €30 adults and €30 kids.

[belfastred]

Full article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article4364999.ece).

The AIPL would run under an initial five-year license granted by the FAI and IFA. It would start in August 2009 and be played in winter rather than during the summer, unlike the current Eircom League. The FAI would be expected to switch their league to winter as well

Mr Drury would need to get a move on :rolleyes:

[finnpark]

The FAI are doing a good job of running the politics behind the league.

However, its clear to me (and anyone else with half a brain) that the FAI are a marketing nightmare of the league. The media absolutely despise the FAI, rightly or wrongly, and there is no way they should in charge of marketing the league.

The idea of Platinum One taking over the league's marketing shines a ray a light on the whole thing. I think that an all Ireland league would be bad for Finn Harps but we may be relegated anyway so it doesn't really matter. And over time I think we can get promotion into such a league if we are good enough. The same goes for any team.

On the subject of marketing the only decent thing that the FAI have done is the Live TV coverage and MNS programme. The written media coverage is still a disaster, the add they put on TV is rediculously poor and every journalist in the country seems to have it in for them.

I for one think that its time to give the marketing of the league over to someone else.

Platinum One have the right connections to "make it happen" for the league with the Irish media including all the press, Setanta Sports and RTE.

Its time for clubs to support the Platinum One bid to run the league. It badly needs it whether we like it or not. They are the right people for the job!!!

:)

[SMorgan]

With all due respect, the way you're talking about Harps getting promoted into the league suggests to me that you need to go back and read the P1 proposal again. There will be no P&R for three seasons and then after that promotion will be by invitation to club's meeting P1's "strict criteria"

The proposal as published doesn't suggest to me that they are the right people. It suggests to me that they haven't a clue what they're on about and the last people in the world we should be looking to.

[finnpark]

With all due respect, the way you're talking about Harps getting promoted into the league suggests to me that you need to go back and read the P1 proposal again. There will be no P&R for three seasons and then after that promotion will be by invitation to club's meeting P1's "strict criteria"

The proposal as published doesn't suggest to me that they are the right people. It suggests to me that they haven't a clue what they're on about and the last people in the world we should be looking to.

Their clients include Barcelona, Manchester United, Setanta and Sky Sports so Im not sure how you came to that conclusion. :rolleyes: They are right too about not letting in clubs without the proper support and stadia in place.

[Boh_So_Good]

It suggests to me that they haven't a clue what they're on about and the last people in the world we should be looking to.

You are not paying attention. P1 are mega by any standards and the fact they see a big future for domestic soccer on this island is not to be scoffed at. I also suspect this is the real reason for the shocking and hysterical anti-domestic soccer articles by the bogball animals in the Irish meeja of late.

A top soccer league in Ireland = bye bye GAA hegemony. Hence the recent psychotic convulsion by the sports media in this country concerning anything which can put domestic soccer in a bad light.

If you think P1 haven't a clue, then you need to do some research. They are bigger than Niall Quinn's wildest Oirish soccer pimping potential could ever be.

[gspain]

You are not paying attention. P1 are mega by any standards and the fact they see a big future for domestic soccer on this island is not to be scoffed at. I also suspect this is the real reason for the shocking and hysterical anti-domestic soccer articles by the bogball animals in the Irish meeja of late.

A top soccer league in Ireland = bye bye GAA hegemony. Hence the recent psychotic convulsion by the sports media in this country concerning anything which can put domestic soccer in a bad light.

If you think P1 haven't a clue, then you need to do some research. They are bigger than Niall Quinn's wildest Oirish soccer pimping potential could ever be.

On the contrary I think the "highlight everything negative we can about" domestic football campaign in the media has been cleverly orchestrated by Platinum 1.

[Dodge]

On the contrary I think the "highlight everything negative we can about" domestic football campaign in the media has been cleverly orchestrated by Platinum 1.

Same here.

And platinum's handling of Barcelona friendlies in Scotland is vastly different to running a full national league.

[Steve Bruce]

Interesting aside in the Independent today about yesterday's game between Cobh and Sunderland. Only 3000 went along, prompting McDonnell to note that perhaps the novelty had worn off seeing Sunderland play. If that's the case (and I'm sure there were numerous other reasons why the crowd was that low), there's no way an AIPL would sustain the interest in this country long enough to have even one season with ten fully-pro teams, let alone to keep it going. Nothing in the Platinum One proposals have addressed this (bar that catch all, "marketing"...)

Rangers came to play Linfield 3 or 4 seasons in a row. The crowds where hitting 20,000 at the start, but the last one only had 12,000 or so.

The point is, the novelty of watching Rangers in a friendly worn thin with the Ulster/Irish Rangers support.

But the support for Rangers is still as strong as ever, just not in a friendly game.

[Battery Rover]

Platinum One have announced the plan is not feasible anymore

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/221-01.html

[Bohemian1890]

Same here.

And platinum's handling of Barcelona friendlies in Scotland is vastly different to running a full national league.

Well were they behind the Hearts Barca game??If so it they didnt handle it very well as Hearts made a loss when they played Barcelona.

I also believe P1 were(are)behind all the negative media reports on LOI football.

[pineapple stu]

Platinum One have announced the plan is not feasible anymore

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/221-01.html
Hmm. I wonder what's changed? (Or more accurately, what's the straw that just broke the camel's back?)

Good riddance anyways.

[OneRedArmy]

Hmm. I wonder what's changed? (Or more accurately, what's the straw that just broke the camel's back?)

Good riddance anyways.They either:
1) Over-estimated the willingness and ability (see below) of target clubs to proceed
2) under-estimated the pushback from the FAI and IL
3) lost their bottle at taking on the existing leagues
4) don't have access to the money to launch it they thought they would

or possibly a combination.

Since the time they first started discussing the AIL, Bohs land deal has started to look dodgy, Drogs plans have pretty much died, Derry have announced a return to part-time and Cork have gone into examinership.

And both jurisdictions are in a recession.

[pineapple stu]

None of that's a shock though. Suppose the money just ran out.

[seanfhear]

The recession would not have helped.You dont want to be trying this when money is tight all round.

[Rovers Maniac]

Looks like they overestimated the clubs involved.

[garyderry]

Derry have announced a return to part-time

WTF are you talking about, there is absolutely ZERO talk of part-time football, yet. In fact two players have just had two year extensions on there full-time contracts, one just signed new for the club on a full-time contract, and apparently others will sign extensions, we have pretty much a full full-time squad for the next two seasons, after that its anyones guess.

Unless you know something the rest of us dont?

[OneRedArmy]

WTF are you talking about, Any need?
there is absolutely ZERO talk of part-time football, yet. Unless you know something the rest of us dont?There definitely was talk. Fair enough that it wasn't announced.

But, how long we have players signed for is no guide to how long we will be fully professional for. Take Cork as an example.

Its highly conceivable at the end of this season that Pats will be the only full time team left. Will we still be professional in that case?

[pineapple stu]

Didn't MariborKev say it on here? That's not far off being official.

The Indo today reported the end of Platinum One as a "shock" move. Adds weight to the theory that newspapers have been giving P1 a blank page to write whatever they want about the league.

[garyderry]

Any need? There definitely was talk. Fair enough that it wasn't announced.

But, how long we have players signed for is no guide to how long we will be fully professional for. Take Cork as an example.

Its highly conceivable at the end of this season that Pats will be the only full time team left. Will we still be professional in that case?

Fair enough your going to have a lot better idea of the internals of the club than most on here, me included, however every statement and comment from every one related to the club mentioned cutting back in the short-term so we can have a professional team long term, no mention of part-time, but talk of a smaller squad and cutting back wages

Isnt the whole basis of the new ground and hiring a full-time
commercial manager to attempt to sustain a full-time squad?
if that doesnt happened, we will definitely end up Part-time,
however there has been fairly consistent statements from Pat McDaid
and Stephen Kenny stating there is no plan to go part-time?

As for the 'WTF', that was shock that a derry fan (with a fair idea what is going on and not exactly known for scare mongering or talking rubbish, unlike the rest of us) was saying we were going part-time, when everyone at the club was saying we werent, so are we as a club considering part-time football, and both Pat McDaid and Stephen kenny are talking rubbish to the press the last few months? saying we arent?

As for offering players contracts then not meeting those contracts
If we dont keep to those contracts we wont have a club, as ourselves,
Omagh and Colraine found out in the past, unlike rovers who were allowed
to pay a cent in the euro to clear there debt, the tax man / courts up north will just shut us down. Very very risky if we are offering contracts we dont think we can meet :-(

[Mr A]

Didn't Coleraine do more or less the same as Rovers though?

[passerrby]

he says it failed dueto lack of support from the majority of clubs but how would something that did not include the majority of clubs expect to get there support

[Buile Shuibhne]

The failure of any of the clubs to raise the issue at the recent FAI AGM - never mind push it - was probably the straw that broke the camels back.

Demonstrated to Delaney - and Platinum - that they had no stomach to fight for it.

[jebus]

On the contrary I think the "highlight everything negative we can about" domestic football campaign in the media has been cleverly orchestrated by Platinum 1.

Back page of the Indo today tells you everything you need to know about the methods Drury is using to try and manipulate supporters across the country. We're well shot of this guy lads

[jinxy lilywhite]

I think Linfield & Glentorans silence during the whole process was enough for this to be dead before it got off the ground. The FAI let it pass over too which was a good thing.
Without the support of the FAI or the IFA this was never going to be a viable entity and as it turned out the clubs spearheading it didn't have the balls to go ahead with it either. When Arkaga realised this wasn't going to happen they sent Cork into examinership. It seems to me that the backers of Drogheda want out because it's not going to happen (the stadium issue may be cited but I think this is the sole reason).
P1 main problem was that it left too many clubs out of the circle. By taking the big 2 from the north their league would be gone. By P1 overlooking the remaining clubs here they really had an up hill battle to win over the FAI who are supposed to be their to fight for the little guy.

I don't believe that an AIPL is entirely dead and I actually do want this to happen but it will only happen on the terms of the FAI and IFA and not a sports agents company.

[passerrby]

not to sure jinxy i think it will be off the rader for a long time as it is impossable to get two clubs to agree to anything never mind 22. i wonder will jr return to derry or has he burned that bridge

[OneRedArmy]

Back page of the Indo today tells you everything you need to know about the methods Drury is using to try and manipulate supporters across the country. We're well shot of this guy ladsI've only read the article entitled "Dead in the Water" on the online version in which Drury doesn't say anything that could be construed or manipulative.

Is this the one you're referring to, or is there another article I missed?
:confused: