AIPL plans revealed

[Mr_Parker]

http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/irishdoc.pdf

Proposal document above.

Far too many assumptions being made. doesn't look like they've researched anything at all IMO.


Assumptions and half-truths. Some of the points they make about the IL are nonsense and would appear to have been researched from reading fans comments on the ILS Forum and nothing more.

Also, I believe this is taken from the document


However, to be
successful the AIPL must be,

- established and controlled by the clubs

Is this and will this be the case? It cetainly doesn't seem to be the case to me. The monies that are being creamed of, who gets it and what will happen to it?

[SalvadorSanchez]

I'm very in favour of an AIL but not this proposal.

I agree. We need to develop an AIL, we need to offer the clubs a decent chance at increased revenue and the leagues need to be in a position to lobby both governments for sports grants to develop stadia, grass roots and junior league football. An AIL would be welcome, it would make for better away trips (generally) and may push up gates receipts etc.

We would need to see salary caps and good admin being put in place to prevent clubs going daft and ending up bankrupt etc.

Not so sure about whats being offered to the IL though, Derry would be counted as a "northern team" so in effect its just Glens and Linfield being invited to join and the promotion play-off would probably favour LOI teams at least in the first few years. Thats not going to win hearts and minds is it? I think we need at least 3 northern teams (not counting DC) and a very good second tier arrangement because that's what we're asking almost all the northern teams to sign up for and a lot of the LOI clubs as well

[passerrby]

fintan drury and the blockheads

[dcfcsteve]

Thats not strictly true as the Champions League places must be based on league positions. As this is a new league, it absolutely would need UEFA co-operation

It would need UEFA co-operation, but individual FA's set the peramneters for how they nominate their European reps. So, for example, England could chose not to nominate any Welsh FA member clubs for its Euro spots if they wanted, and UEFA would have to abide by that. So if cardiff City topped the Barclays Premioership, they could be refused a CL spot. Hence also why UEFA didn't bat an eyelid when Shels CL spot was given to City last year.

The same would go for 'ignoring' whoever finished top of the EL/IL in favour of the AIPL winners. European entrants are technically 'nominated' by associations, rather than automatic. And UEFA don't meddle in internal association's decisions unless they feel they absolutely have to.

[GavinZac]

fintan drury and the blockheads

To be honest I can't see Platinum One being worried what you or the other 99 people at a Monaghan match think. Not saying thats right or appropriate but if all you've got is insults it makes you very easy to ignore.

[dublinred]

Stupid idea , a couple of riots will evaporate any goodwill quicky , we will have morons queing up outside the grounds waiting to attack the visiting fans , a lot of teams who don't make the cut will go under quickly.

[GavinZac]

Stupid idea , a couple of riots will evaporate any goodwill quicky , we will have morons queing up outside the grounds waiting to attack the visiting fansWhat in gods name are you on about? There hasn't been any trouble in the Setanta Cup and thats going for what, 4 or 5 years now?

[EalingGreen]

It would need UEFA co-operation, but individual FA's set the peramneters for how they nominate their European reps. So, for example, England could chose not to nominate any Welsh FA member clubs for its Euro spots if they wanted, and UEFA would have to abide by that. So if cardiff City topped the Barclays Premioership, they could be refused a CL spot. Hence also why UEFA didn't bat an eyelid when Shels CL spot was given to City last year.

The same would go for 'ignoring' whoever finished top of the EL/IL in favour of the AIPL winners. European entrants are technically 'nominated' by associations, rather than automatic. And UEFA don't meddle in internal association's decisions unless they feel they absolutely have to.

All very well, but one of the attractions of the AIPL is that it will offer 2 x Champions League places to the top two clubs. What happens if both clubs come from ROI (or both from NI?).
Will UEFA be happy to grant the FAI (or IFA) two CL places?
Can't see it myself.

Also, on a more parochial note, what is to be the status of Derry City in this new set-up. We are told they will play in the Irish Cup, rather than the FAI Cup. Also, the Apprentice Cup* for U-19 sides is to be organised around 4 regions, so their team will be playing mostly (exclusively?) against NI/IL teams to start with.
Does this mean DCFC will re-enter the IFA? I can see why they would not want to, but with the greatly improved security situation, their original justification for joining the FAI is now all but dissipated, whilst the proposed AIPL would give them the all-Ireland element which they require.


* - If Derry City were to win this competition, might they not rename it "The "Apprentice Boys Cup"? ;)

[dublinred]

What in gods name are you on about? There hasn't been any trouble in the Setanta Cup and thats going for what, 4 or 5 years now?

Not all the clubs have ben involved yet , all it takes is someone to get a nosebleed and it will be front page of the Indgaapendent, who is going to pay for the policing costs under the proposals.

[holidaysong]

* - If Derry City were to win this competition, might they not rename it "The "Apprentice Boys Cup"? ;)

That made me laugh.. :D

[GavinZac]

Not all the clubs have ben involved yet
Linfield
Longford
Glentoran
Shelbourne
Portadown
Cork City
Drogheda
Dungannon
Derry City
Cliftonville
St. Patricks Athletic

What other towns do you want fans going to, to see the reaction of the locals?


all it takes is someone to get a nosebleed and it will be front page of the Indgaapendent, who is going to pay for the policing costs under the proposals.
The same people who pay the policing costs now?

Given that I've strolled around the Shankhill road in a green and white striped jersey I think we can put the "There Will Be Blood!" line to rest.

[pete]

As already mentioned there are far too many assumptions made in this proposal. The one that stood out to me in particular was the claim that attendances would increase by 150% in year One. I would love to see bigger crowds but the proposals offer no reason why crowds would increase so quickly when same teams are playing each other in the same poor stadiums. :confused:

[jinxy lilywhite]

What in gods name are you on about? There hasn't been any trouble in the Setanta Cup and thats going for what, 4 or 5 years now?
Was there not altercations between Linfield Fans and Gardai in Dublin earlier this year when they where playing Pats.


I would be inclined to agree with London Red on this. No ground in the country is properly equipped for handling away support of any numbers and the Gardai and PSNI would be unable to handle any trouble outside the ground without resorting to baton charges.

[GavinZac]

Was there not altercations between Linfield Fans and Gardai in Dublin earlier this year when they where playing Pats.No. One Linfield fan was arrested for being drunk, a tabloid tried to make something more of it and got slaughtered for it. The thread is still here on foot.ie AFAIK.

I would be inclined to agree with London Red on this. No ground in the country is properly equipped for handling away support of any numbersExcuse me? What does that mean? What's wrong with, for instance, Turner's Cross? or Tolka Park (in terms of access and control of away fans, rather than quality of facilities)?
and the Gardai and PSNI would be unable to handle any trouble outside the ground without resorting to baton charges.They've done perfectly fine so far.

[OneRedArmy]

Not all the clubs have ben involved yet , all it takes is someone to get a nosebleed and it will be front page of the Indgaapendent, who is going to pay for the policing costs under the proposals.You're obviously referring to Rovers and Bohs. The Indo and the Herag get enough material on them anyway and life goes on so can't see what the issue is?

Of all the supposed issues, this is the one thats least valid, as the Setanta Cup has proved.

[Rovers Maniac]

Therre would be massive offs every week. I really could see hooligans coming over for the weekend just for a fight. Do Shamrock have some connection with conference side Wrexham? Bohs are connected to Wrexham rival Rhyl now and i think Derry have a connection with a team in Serie C1. While we if we ever got in would have the backing of the Accrington Stanley Ultras. Also with the cheap flights on ryanair and online checking these hooligans could be on our doorstep at a moments notice

[OneRedArmy]

Therre would be massive offs every week. I really could see hooligans coming over for the weekend just for a fight. Do Shamrock have some connection with conference side Wrexham? Bohs are connected to Wrexham rival Rhyl now and i think Derry have a connection with a team in Serie C1. While we if we ever got in would have the backing of the Accrington Stanley Ultras. Also with the cheap flights on ryanair and online checking these hooligans could be on our doorstep at a moments noticeYou're missing a smilie aren't you?:eek:

[endabob1]

Two points
Firstly whether or not you like this specific proposal or not (and I personally think it has a lot of things right), an AIL is the only possible way of suporting a professional league in Ireland. I like their ideas for the Cups & the eventual promotion from the FAI & IFA leagues, personally I'd like the promotion/relegation to be from season 1 but I can see the stability argument for keeping it a closed shop for a couple of years. The other thing I think they've got wrong is the entrance eligibility, it should be performance based if it is to have any credence and inviting (no offence) Limerick in at this stage is a tad farcical. If this is not going to be the case then why no set up 10 brand new franchises like the MLS and start from scratch?
Second point is that an AIL has zero chance of success without the full backing of the FAI, IFA & UEFA this proposal currently has none of the 3 on board until that changes it will never happen in the format Platinum are talking about

[seanfhear]

Two points
Firstly whether or not you like this specific proposal or not (and I personally think it has a lot of things right), an AIL is the only possible way of suporting a professional league in Ireland. I like their ideas for the Cups & the eventual promotion from the FAI & IFA leagues, personally I'd like the promotion/relegation to be from season 1 but I can see the stability argument for keeping it a closed shop for a couple of years. The other thing I think they've got wrong is the entrance eligibility, it should be performance based if it is to have any credence and inviting (no offence) Limerick in at this stage is a tad farcical. If this is not going to be the case then why no set up 10 brand new franchises like the MLS and start from scratch?
Second point is that an AIL has zero chance of success without the full backing of the FAI, IFA & UEFA this proposal currently has none of the 3 on board until that changes it will never happen in the format Platinum are talking about
Agree with above.I believe that there will be an ail league in 2/3 years and that supporters must put maximum effort in to secure the kind of league that they desire.

[TheFingallian]

If something like this were to go ahead, rather than having two independent leagues underneath, it they may as well combine them and let them play each other to earn the right to promotion from the first season onwards rather than through playoffs between the winners of both leagues. Imagine winning your league and losing the playoff. You couldn't even boast about winning the league as people would just ask, "So what? Your still here aren't you?"

I know the combining of the two leagues itself, rather than a breakaway from certain clubs into a new league, has often been frowned upon, but if the AIPL came about it might take away some of the reasons for not combining the leagues. Then you could have two leagues fully connected to each other. You could probably add a third league for teams looking to make the step up similar to the "A Championship" of today except including teams from anywhere in Ireland.

[pineapple stu]

Of all the supposed issues, this is the one thats least valid, as the Setanta Cup has proved.
You do an awful lot of supposing where it's not really justified. Which issues are only "supposed" issues as opposed to fundamental ones? (And I agree with you on the ridiculous over-exaggeration of the security issue, so you can ignore that one). You were also happy to suppose that the Limerick fans would suddenly do a U-turn when they'd previously said that their inclusion would be ridiculous. You're happy to suppse that the FAI have a "finger in the ear attitude" towards clubs' financial problems - I'd argue that the FAI's sensible 65% wage cap approach has instead caught these financial issues before they got way out of hand, and so (a) that's far from a "finger in the ear" approach, and (b) it's as much as they can really do in an issue that ultimately they don't have much control over. Maybe you should look to arguing actual issues rather than "supposing" them to exist or not.

There's a number of problems with the proposals. The first is that they bear Jim Roddy's trademark of a superb goal with absolutely no correlation between the changes proposed and how we're going to reach the goals. Again, stuff like "Irish football has no future" are bandied about without any sort of back up. Of course Irish football has a future. But if that future involves average gates of 1500 and part-time teams because Johnny Bar Stool doesn't care about the league, then we have to accept that straight off and work within those constraints. That's more of a future than magic 150% crowd increases.

Secondly, did Linfield not state about a month ago that they weren't interested in this for the foreseeable future? No-one cares about anyone other than Linfield and Glens from the North (with due respect to the other clubs), and if Linfield are out, I'd imagine Glens are out (won't risk losing their bumper three-times-a-year crowds to have 100 Cork fans instead), which sinks the project immediately.

Thirdly, the new IL Premier League was initially supposed to have no relegation for a period, but that was changed after, as I understood it, pressure from UEFA (and correct me if I'm wrong here). Yet Platinum One have decided they can overcome the exact same issue somehow?

What the Platinum One proposals are basically promising isn't a million miles off where Genesis said we'd be about now. Not much has changed with the new league, increased TV coverage, CPOs, etc, and not much will change if Linfield and Glentoran are brought into this mix, lured by pie-in-the-sky revenue figures. Anyone who believes this is the only way to a fully professional league doesn't have a clue about Irish football.

[Mr_Parker]

You do an awful lot of supposing where it's not really justified. Which issues are only "supposed" issues as opposed to fundamental ones? (And I agree with you on the ridiculous over-exaggeration of the security issue, so you can ignore that one). You were also happy to suppose that the Limerick fans would suddenly do a U-turn when they'd previously said that their inclusion would be ridiculous. You're happy to suppse that the FAI have a "finger in the ear attitude" towards clubs' financial problems - I'd argue that the FAI's sensible 65% wage cap approach has instead caught these financial issues before they got way out of hand, and so (a) that's far from a "finger in the ear" approach, and (b) it's as much as they can really do in an issue that ultimately they don't have much control over. Maybe you should look to arguing actual issues rather than "supposing" them to exist or not.

There's a number of problems with the proposals. The first is that they bear Jim Roddy's trademark of a superb goal with absolutely no correlation between the changes proposed and how we're going to reach the goals. Again, stuff like "Irish football has no future" are bandied about without any sort of back up. Of course Irish football has a future. But if that future involves average gates of 1500 and part-time teams because Johnny Bar Stool doesn't care about the league, then we have to accept that straight off and work within those constraints. That's more of a future than magic 150% crowd increases.

Secondly, did Linfield not state about a month ago that they weren't interested in this for the foreseeable future? No-one cares about anyone other than Linfield and Glens from the North (with due respect to the other clubs), and if Linfield are out, I'd imagine Glens are out (won't risk losing their bumper three-times-a-year crowds to have 100 Cork fans instead), which sinks the project immediately.

Thirdly, the new IL Premier League was initially supposed to have no relegation for a period, but that was changed after, as I understood it, pressure from UEFA (and correct me if I'm wrong here). Yet Platinum One have decided they can overcome the exact same issue somehow?

What the Platinum One proposals are basically promising isn't a million miles off where Genesis said we'd be about now. Not much has changed with the new league, increased TV coverage, CPOs, etc, and not much will change if Linfield and Glentoran are brought into this mix, lured by pie-in-the-sky revenue figures. Anyone who believes this is the only way to a fully professional league doesn't have a clue about Irish football.

Good post.

[EalingGreen]

Two points
Firstly whether or not you like this specific proposal or not (and I personally think it has a lot of things right), an AIL is the only possible way of suporting a professional league in Ireland. I like their ideas for the Cups & the eventual promotion from the FAI & IFA leagues, personally I'd like the promotion/relegation to be from season 1 but I can see the stability argument for keeping it a closed shop for a couple of years.
Correct that the only way a professional League could work in Ireland is if it is on an all-Ireland basis. But do not be deceived into thinking that just because a professional League is all-Ireland, therefore it must work.
From what I've seen of this proposal, this one has no chance.

Two points
I like their ideas for the Cups & the eventual promotion from the FAI & IFA leagues, personally I'd like the promotion/relegation to be from season 1 but I can see the stability argument for keeping it a closed shop for a couple of years.
Re P&R, there's a circle here that cannot be squared (imo). If you have P&R from the beginning, then clubs will be reluctant to make the long term investment in stadium and infrastructure etc, esp if at the expense of the player budget, if there is a risk they could relegated straightaway.
But if P&R is delayed for 2 or 3 seasons (to allow stability) and the League generates the revenues which Platinum predict, then the excluded sides will be so much further behind than now, that when they do get promotion to the AIPL, the gap will be too large for them to stay there.
Exactly the same has happened in England, where there are 6 or 8 clubs "Yo Yo" clubs who are too good for the Championship, but not good enough for the EPL.

Two points
The other thing I think they've got wrong is the entrance eligibility, it should be performance based if it is to have any credence and inviting (no offence) Limerick in at this stage is a tad farcical. If this is not going to be the case then why no set up 10 brand new franchises like the MLS and start from scratch?

Because they know that not only is a a pure Franchise system unacceptable, but deep down they know it doesn't work in countries which already have a long-established club tradition, which the Franchise clubs would have to replace. For example, could you see supporters of e.g. Dundalk and Drogheda switching to support a combined "Louth United"? I don't think so, somehow...:D

Two points
Second point is that an AIL has zero chance of success without the full backing of the FAI, IFA & UEFA this proposal currently has none of the 3 on board until that changes it will never happen in the format Platinum are talking about
Absolutely. Of the many flaws which make this proposal unworkable, this (fortunately) is the one which will kill it off soonest (imo).

[pineapple stu]

Actually, where I wrote -


Anyone who believes this is the only way to a fully professional league doesn't have a clue about Irish football.

...I should have written -


But do not be deceived into thinking that just because a professional League is all-Ireland, therefore it must work.
Obvious difference.

[EalingGreen]

If something like this were to go ahead, rather than having two independent leagues underneath, it they may as well combine them and let them play each other to earn the right to promotion from the first season onwards rather than through playoffs between the winners of both leagues. Imagine winning your league and losing the playoff. You couldn't even boast about winning the league as people would just ask, "So what? Your still here aren't you?"

I know the combining of the two leagues itself, rather than a breakaway from certain clubs into a new league, has often been frowned upon, but if the AIPL came about it might take away some of the reasons for not combining the leagues. Then you could have two leagues fully connected to each other. You could probably add a third league for teams looking to make the step up similar to the "A Championship" of today except including teams from anywhere in Ireland.
Not only do the clubs involved, the two leagues and the two Associations not want this, but the Platinum Group don't want anything to do with this suggestion.
Can't you see that they merely want to cream off the 10 or 12 potentially most profitable clubs and to Hell with the rest?
There's nothing in it for them in administering another 20 or so additional senior clubs, other than additional expense and hassle.

P.S. If there is presently suspicion in NI about the possible implications of a simple 10 team AIPL, any suggested doing away with the Irish League entirely would increase the hostility 100 fold, since that really could be seen as a stepping stone towards doing away with our independence. :mad:

[GavinZac]

P.S. If there is presently suspicion in NI about the possible implications of a simple 10 team AIPL, any suggested doing away with the Irish League entirely would increase the hostility 100 fold, since that really could be seen as a stepping stone towards doing away with our independence. :mad:

Er, what? I don't reckon any borders were effected because of an all-ireland rugby league...

[Schumi]

Er, what? I don't reckon any borders were effected because of an all-ireland rugby league...There was no Northern Ireland international rugby team to be affected.

[OneRedArmy]

P.S. If there is presently suspicion in NI about the possible implications of a simple 10 team AIPL, any suggested doing away with the Irish League entirely would increase the hostility 100 fold, since that really could be seen as a stepping stone towards doing away with our independence. :mad:Truly a case of adding two and two and getting.....a lorry.

Or possibly a swordfish.

Certainly not 4....

PS Getting back to the point at hand, the Irish League (not unlike our own league) appears to be doing a good job of doing away with itself.

[TheFingallian]

There was no Northern Ireland international rugby team to be affected.

The Northern Ireland national team wouldn't be affected at all. How many Irish League players play in the team regularly anyway. It's already completely independent of the clubs.

[TheFingallian]

Not only do the clubs involved, the two leagues and the two Associations not want this, but the Platinum Group don't want anything to do with this suggestion.
Can't you see that they merely want to cream off the 10 or 12 potentially most profitable clubs and to Hell with the rest?
There's nothing in it for them in administering another 20 or so additional senior clubs, other than additional expense and hassle.

P.S. If there is presently suspicion in NI about the possible implications of a simple 10 team AIPL, any suggested doing away with the Irish League entirely would increase the hostility 100 fold, since that really could be seen as a stepping stone towards doing away with our independence. :mad:

What we will be left with is the corpses of two leagues minus their money spinners which for three years are near meaningless otherwise.

[pineapple stu]

PS Getting back to the point at hand, the Irish League (not unlike our own league) appears to be doing a good job of doing away with itself.
Thing is, it's incompetent club officials and administrators who are doing the good job of doing away with our league. They'll still be there in this new set up, but with more rein to cause havoc if the wage cap goes. The proposals do nothing to attack the root cause of the problems in the league, yet some people reckon it'll cure them?

[endabob1]

Re P&R, there's a circle here that cannot be squared (imo). If you have P&R from the beginning, then clubs will be reluctant to make the long term investment in stadium and infrastructure etc, esp if at the expense of the player budget, if there is a risk they could relegated straightaway.
But if P&R is delayed for 2 or 3 seasons (to allow stability) and the League generates the revenues which Platinum predict, then the excluded sides will be so much further behind than now, that when they do get promotion to the AIPL, the gap will be too large for them to stay there.
Exactly the same has happened in England, where there are 6 or 8 clubs "Yo Yo" clubs who are too good for the Championship, but not good enough for the EPL.

I don't see a problem with having "Yo Yo" clubs, I have more of an issue with there being no promotion or relegation for 2/3 years to enable the top 10 to get cosy and be so far ahead of the teams behind that it basically becomes a permanent closed shop. If for example promotion was only allowed after 2/3 years in a play-off system between the winners of the FAI, IFA leagues and the bottom placed team of the AIPL it would basically ensure that the AIPL side would surrvive having had 2/3 years of much heavier investment in their team and facilities.
By having P&R from the begining it may deter clubs from investing heavily in their grounds but that might not be a bad thing, it may ensure clubs are more prudent in their approach to capital spending.

[jinxy lilywhite]

The Northern Ireland national team wouldn't be affected at all. How many Irish League players play in the team regularly anyway. It's already completely independent of the clubs.

I don't think so.
1) Would UEFA let one league have two representatives? or
2) Two National teams?
3) Wouldn't this not mean an amalgamation of the IFA and the FAI?

Just a question, I'm not having a go

[GavinZac]

The proposals do nothing to attack the root cause of the problems in the league, yet some people reckon it'll cure them?
The root cause of problems in the league is the perception held by the general public that the league is awful crap populated by builders and postmen and plasterers and generally not proper footballers or clubs. This has lead to a lack of support, which has lead to a lack of finances, which has lead to a lack of quality facilities and coaching.

The proposals exclude UCD, which in some small way at least reduces the number of teams involved which could quite truthfully have "not a proper football club" leveled at them.

[superfrank]

The proposals exclude UCD, which in some small way at least reduces the number of teams involved which could quite truthfully have "not a proper football club" leveled at them.
But replaces them with Limerick.

[TheFingallian]

I don't think so.
1) Would UEFA let one league have two representatives? or
2) Two National teams?
3) Wouldn't this not mean an amalgamation of the IFA and the FAI?

Just a question, I'm not having a go

Well yes to 3, so i guess 1 and 2 make sense.

If they made some sort of exception it would be great but i wouldn't be too confident on that in which case i guess we would just have to stick with two pointless "national leagues" which in effect will become mere feeder leagues to a much bigger "Island of Ireland league?".

[TheFingallian]

But replaces them with Limerick.

Well a Limerick team in the top division of Irish football which if a success could make Limerick very well supported.

Two maybe's though.

[GavinZac]

But replaces them with Limerick.

Fair point, but you could pour millions into UCD and equip them with the best PR and advertisers around and still not ruffle D4's interest.

Limerick? Munster.

[pineapple stu]

The root cause of problems in the league is the perception held by the general public that the league is awful crap populated by builders and postmen and plasterers and generally not proper footballers or clubs. This has lead to a lack of support, which has lead to a lack of finances, which has lead to a lack of quality facilities and coaching.

The proposals exclude UCD, which in some small way at least reduces the number of teams involved which could quite truthfully have "not a proper football club" leveled at them.
Run along, little boy - the grown ups are talking. We're not interested in the blinkered views of obsessives like yourself.

[Steve Bruce]

I haven't read right through this thread. But just say we have this league and when relegation starts. Linfield gets relegated the 1st year and Glentoran get relegated the 2nd year and 2 LOI clubs get promoted. That would leave an All-Island League with no Northern Ireland clubs (Football wise, I do not country Derry City as they play in the LOI).

I know it is unlikely that Linfield or Glentoran getting relegated, but it would be a stupid thing to see. AIL with all LOI clubs. Great stuff.

[OneRedArmy]

You do an awful lot of supposing where it's not really justified. .Welcome to the internet. You engage in pointless, repeated episodes of hair-splitting with various other posters on a number of issues but do I complain?
You were also happy to suppose that the Limerick fans would suddenly do a U-turn when they'd previously said that their inclusion would be ridiculous. Read my quote again, thats not what it said.
You're happy to suppse that the FAI have a "finger in the ear attitude" towards clubs' financial problems - I'd argue that the FAI's sensible 65% wage cap approach has instead caught these financial issues before they got way out of hand, and so (a) that's far from a "finger in the ear" approach, and (b) it's as much as they can really do in an issue that ultimately they don't have much control over. Maybe you should look to arguing actual issues rather than "supposing" them to exist or not.Isn't that a supposition?:confused:

But getting back to your point, the wage cap should act as a preventative rather than a detective control over excessive spending, which means that it actually proves the wage cap ISN'T working.

[Mr_Parker]

Stolen from a poster on an IL Forum responding to the document.


“It is our belief that circa 80% of the clubs in the domestic leagues are in dire financial difficulties and the majority are technically insolvent.”

That's a truly remarkable statement to make. Don't suppose anyone has any evidence with which to back this up?


"Drury plans to finance the league through sponsorship and television deals, and to unlock government grants for stadium development."

Which "government grants for stadium development" in the North, that are currently "locked", do P1 believe they alone can "unlock"?


"It would take the financial burden off a lot of smaller clubs trying to compete with the top clubs.”

That's awful nice of them; see, they're all heart really!

[Schumi]

I haven't read right through this thread. But just say we have this league and when relegation starts. Linfield gets relegated the 1st year and Glentoran get relegated the 2nd year and 2 LOI clubs get promoted. That would leave an All-Island League with no Northern Ireland clubs (Football wise, I do not country Derry City as they play in the LOI).

I know it is unlikely that Linfield or Glentoran getting relegated, but it would be a stupid thing to see. AIL with all LOI clubs. Great stuff.I've only been skimming through the document linked earlier but it says somewhere that they'd take measures to protect the number of Northern teams in the league. They don't say what measures they mean though.

This seems like the same sort of talk we've had several times from this group. Lots of aspiration but very little reasoning for why things will suddenly improve. The 150% increase in crowds in a year is the most glaring. They expect, for example, Cork to go from average crowds of 2,000 to 5,000 in year by playing in this new league.

There's also a telling quote about "Others, who have no prospects of playing at the top level and should, arguably, not be competing at their current level, should take the opportunity – as Kilkenny did last year – to find a level appropriate to their conditions.". They basically think clubs who they don't think should be in their league should go out of business.

[GavinZac]

Run along, little boy - the grown ups are talking. We're not interested in the blinkered views of obsessives like yourself.
Of course I'm obsessive - I want whats best for my club, my club is a daily feature of my life. Blinkered? No. In terms of opinion, blinkered is seeing the truth and shaking ones head and throwing out a random insult, denying to yourself that there's any chance the mean man might be right.

[Sheridan]

Oh man, I can't even work out who are the pots and who are the kettles on this page of the thread, it's like a cookware store in Pompeii.

[TheFingallian]

I've only been skimming through the document linked earlier but it says somewhere that they'd take measures to protect the number of Northern teams in the league. They don't say what measures they mean though.


I'd imagine if a certain quota of Northern Ireland teams are needed in the league and they have reached that limit then the Republic team who wins the Republic league will be excluded from promotion that year and the winner of the NI league will go up automatically. No other way of going about it. Another reason why their proposal is faulty.

[GavinZac]

The 150% increase in crowds in a year is the most glaring. They expect, for example, Cork to go from average crowds of 2,000 to 5,000 in year by playing in this new league.

I expect they probably mean increase crowds to 150%. Cork's average crowd has gone from 2000 to 3500 this season, not 150% increase or even 100% but certainly respectable - and that's based on radio, print and community marketing. Other facets or increased budget for the marketing should see higher growth. of course, it helps that the average man on the streets opinion on the quality of football on offer was probably boosted by the hype of O'Callaghan and Mooney.

[Mr_Parker]

I'd imagine if a certain quota of Northern Ireland teams are needed in the league and they have reached that limit then the Republic team who wins the Republic league will be excluded from promotion that year and the winner of the NI league will go up automatically. No other way of going about it. Another reason why their proposal is faulty.

Correct. And that makes any notion that P&R will be an open process. Reading the document there will be many hoops for clubs to jump through in order to gain promotion and that's not even allowing for the 'closed shop' that will be effective from the start. And the whole notion of Derry City being defined as one of those northern clubs......:rolleyes:

[passerrby]

To be honest I can't see Platinum One being worried what you or the other 99 people at a Monaghan match think. Not saying thats right or appropriate but if all you've got is insults it makes you very easy to ignore.

to be honest i cant see the fai/ifa been to worried what one or two people at platium one think and im saying that thats right and appropriate, as for insults it was sarcasm sutle difference

[jinxy lilywhite]

Year 1 I wouldn't worry about crowds as it would have a novelty value and all but I'd worry for subsequent years when the novelty wears off and attendences drop as a result.
My biggest gripe with it is that 10 teams is too small. I think too many clubs are being left out of this. This should be done for the good of Irish Football not just for 10 Clubs, drury and roddy