Today/Tonight Euro Latest

[viagogo]

The rest of Europe call it winning a free kick. Honestly why should we play fair when nobody else does it and then we leave the game giving out that the ref was a disgrace. In the 2nd half last Thursday Behan was fouled and all the dope had to do was fall to the ground and Cork would have got a free kick but he kept going and we lost possession. Every one of the Haka players would have fallen there and got their free. Football is a professional sport where winner takes all and you need to do whatever it takes to get the victory.

[superfrank]

I'd prefer the honest approach, as I'm sure most others on here would.

[Stevo Da Gull]

I'd prefer the honest approach, as I'm sure most others on here would.


Fcuk the rest of europe! I rather see my club be reprsented by players who play with prode and integrity and don't stoop as low cheating just cause everyone else does it.

I agree completely.

[mark12345]

YOU POSTED: What utter, utter garbage. Possibly the most idiotic argument I've ever heard on this forum.


Stick around a little while longer - I'm sure it'll get better.

[GavinZac]

YOU POSTED: What utter, utter garbage. Possibly the most idiotic argument I've ever heard on this forum.


Stick around a little while longer - I'm sure it'll get better.

try pressing the "Quote" button.

[mark12345]

[QUOTE=bigmac;984422]How do the attitudes of the present club owners stop somebody from buying a club?



If the club owners aren't standing in the way then who is? Did not JP McManus want to invest in Irish football, and Magnier also, and God knows I'm sure there quite a few other money men. The way I understand it there are one too many club boards and owners unwilling to stand aside and let in the big money.

That's what I hear and it could be a load of bullocks, but on the evidence of the lack of progress with EL clubs (take Shelbourne and Dublin City for example a few years back - if two very upwardly mobile clubs can just fold like that, ok Shels are still goin', then how strong is the league?) then I don't believe its too far off the mark.

Another disappointment for me is the cooling off of the talk about the proposed All-Ireland League. It was all the rage a couple of months ago, but now there isn't much talk about it. That would be a huge step forward IMO and would open the door to a million possibilites (if only everyone got behind it in the South instead of seeing the cup half empty).

I'm all for the betterment of the EL, and maybe I come across in a negative way, but just seeing failure after failure every year (and only holding the upper hand in one tie against Latvian/Estonian opposition is not progress) is very hard to take. There has to be a genuine target for Irish clubs in Europe, or the formation of an All-Ireland League - that would be real progress IMHO.

Take it easy!

[SligoBrewer]

SLigo 1-0

Peers

[Dodge]

If the club owners aren't standing in the way then who is? Did not JP McManus want to invest in Irish football, and Magnier also, and God knows I'm sure there quite a few other money men. The way I understand it there are one too many club boards and owners unwilling to stand aside and let in the big money.
You couldn't be further from the truth. Every single club would accept large investment, if it was for the good of the club. All of them, even the member run clubs


That's what I hear and it could be a load of bullocks, but on the evidence of the lack of progress with EL clubs (take Shelbourne and Dublin City for example a few years back - if two very upwardly mobile clubs can just fold like that, ok Shels are still goin', then how strong is the league?) then I don't believe its too far off the mark.
How are the two related? You picked two clubs that were most open to investment and showed how it doesn't work. Every club had the same ambitions as Shels and Dublin City. Every single club wants to be full time and competing for leagues and playing in europe every year. Just because thye overspent the most doesn't mean that they were most ambitious.


I'm all for the betterment of the EL
Maybe you should going to the games so. If you don't, you can't comment on anything about the league. Enjoy watching the telly...

[skitz3]

Maybe you should going to the games so. If you don't, you can't comment on anything about the league. Enjoy watching the telly...

There is it, summed up in one comment.

[SligoBrewer]

Sligo 2-0

Curran

[Saint_Charlie]

Sligo 2-0

Curran

I know Harps are technically a European side but come on! :p

[GavinZac]

(and only holding the upper hand in one tie against Latvian/Estonian opposition is not progress)
Pats and Drogs both won :confused: and Cork I would imagine are favourites to progress - a couple of dodgy goals does not make the opposition any better than they are.

[bigmac]

If the club owners aren't standing in the way then who is? Did not JP McManus want to invest in Irish football, and Magnier also, and God knows I'm sure there quite a few other money men. The way I understand it there are one too many club boards and owners unwilling to stand aside and let in the big money.


First I've heard of these two wanting to invest anything in Irish football. Can you name a situation where big money was turned away by a club? Any big money I can think of always seemed to be tied in with land owned by the club having high development value a la Shels.

[GavinZac]

First I've heard of these two wanting to invest anything in Irish football. Can you name a situation where big money was turned away by a club? Any big money I can think of always seemed to be tied in with land owned by the club having high development value a la Shels.

Funnily enough those two are 'barstoolers', except bored ones with fortunes. Who did they invest in? Man Utd and Celtic. If they'd put a fraction of their investment into an eLoI club, they'd have the satisfaction of an Irish team in the group stages and being heroes to their home town or whatever. Instead they're faceless money men despised by the fans, here and abroad, for popping in and out when it suits them in a helicopter, occupying the premium seats and basically showing more interest in the 'prawn sandwiches'.

[osarusan]

If the club owners aren't standing in the way then who is? Did not JP McManus want to invest in Irish football, and Magnier also, and God knows I'm sure there quite a few other money men. The way I understand it there are one too many club boards and owners unwilling to stand aside and let in the big money.

Where does this undertanding come from?

As Dodge said, people will always accept investment for their clubs. The problem is not that narrow-minded club owners or board members are turning away willing investors because they want to keep their club in the dark ages. The problem is, as GavinZac has pointed out, that these investors couldn't care less about Irish football and are only interested in investing in England or Scotland.

[micls]

Brian Lennox was practically begging for someone to buy him out over the past few years, given that he simply couldn't take the club any further himself......

Where were these Irish businessmen then Mark? They had no interest in getting involved with one of the clubs with the most potential in the league(certainly support wise).

[paudie]

I noticed ye had only 5 players on the bench last night as well. Any youth coming through???

Hard to blame Linfield last night for their tactics playing against a side like that.

Edit: Hard to believe Alan Manus is getting a move. He is not that good IMO.

Disagree completely. I've been very impressed with Mannus any time I've seen him. Was surprised he hadn't gone across the water before now.

[paudie]

Was at the Cork game and one thing that struck me was the way that Haka played the referee. Every time they were touched they fell to the ground and got their free kick and took the pressure off themselves. With Corks experience I thought they would be well able for this sort of play but the players spent most of the time arguing with the ref. At least Mooney had the intelligence to 'win' us the free kick that lead to our 2nd goal. Will Irish teams ever learn to play this way.

That struck me too. They were moaning at the ref the whole game.

We really had them on the rack in the second half. I think in the first half we were thinking too much wheras when we just went at them they couldn't cope.
Still think we might regret not getting a third.
Great comeback all the same:)

[mark12345]

Ok, a couple of points conceded. I don't know as much about the EL as you lads do. You're there every week and I'm not - I live thousands of miles away. But is it asking too much to expect a five-year plan or something of that nature to be put in place so that we can measure the league's progress.

I know there's been a lot of back on forth on this subject but the results so far against Latvian, Finnish and Estonian opposition do not represent a step in the right direction - I think anyone who says it does is fooling himself.

I've seen American soccer take off from a standard that was the equal of the Leinster Senior League in 1990 (no kiddin) to about Championship (England) level today. How does that happen - when we at home have a hundred years of tradition behind us? Money helps yes but it needs a lot of hard work, sound advertising and good coaching as well - that's my take on it anyway.

I've put out a few ideas, and I've received plenty of flak for that - in fairness maybe I'm way too ambitious - but in all honesty I'd love to hear some plans for the way forward for the EL from anyone on this board.

[Soko]

Where do you live, the US or Australia? Please don't try and cite those leagues as being succesful as they are both cack and nowhere near championship level. How do you even watch any of these games?


Is the season on in America right now? Bar Beckham you wouldn't even know they have a league

[dancinpants]

Where do you live, the US or Australia? Please don't try and cite those leagues as being succesful as they are both cack and nowhere near championship level. How do you even watch any of these games?


Is the season on in America right now? Bar Beckham you wouldn't even know they have a league


The standard over here is actually pretty good to be fair. And the US National team don't seem to do too badly depsite the fact they draw the majority of their players from the, as you label it, "cack" MLS. They also stack up fairly well against Mexican club sides. MLS is comfortably Championship level.

[Soko]

The standard over here is actually pretty good to be fair. And the US National team don't seem to do too badly depsite the fact they draw the majority of their players from the, as you label it, "cack" MLS. They also stack up fairly well against Mexican club sides. MLS is comfortably Championship level.


It's brutal. We complain about the coverage of the league in Ireland and it's even worse in the US. You'd have to drag me kicking and screaming to go watch a MLS game. Is the season on now or over? I can't even remember seeing it in the paper

[SkStu]

i watch the MLS week in week out and to be fair they have some, as they say in the States, "marquis players" but generally the standard is atrocious. Especially the defending. Overall i think the MLS is only a small step up from the eL and is hardly what we should be aiming for in the longer term.

The simple fact of the matter is that the league is coming along nicely, maybe its progress has stalled a bit in the last couple of years but that is due more to losing its better players to the scottish and english leagues. Comparing the results to 10 or 20 years ago and any reasonable observer would state their is no comparison.

And Mark12345, Ireland is not a soccer country - playing second fiddle to hurling, football and even rugby over this magical 100 years you talk about. Furthermore it is right next door to "Best League in the World ever bar none TM" which steals our best players from age 14 and the majority of irish footballs potential supporters.

Now, what you are asking for is a plan that can combat all this adversity and external competition, not to mention the general contempt with which it is held from within Ireland. Im sorry but it is not that simple. I have posted a few suggestions in the Ireland forum which i can pm you if you really are interested but even these suggestions presume an interest by the Irish public in attending sporting events on a regular basis. I dont even see that presumption as realistic.

Investment is not forthcoming from the money men here who would rather invest in lower league clubs across the water, not to mention Utd and Celtic - so what alternatives are we left with?

Short term, we must continue to do the small things right - to name a few - internal strucutre of clubs must be correct, budgeting must be monitored, progress must continue to be made in european competition, facilities must continue to be upgraded.

Long term - thats a whole other post.

[mark12345]

Fair comment - at least you spell it out even as dismal as it is. And judging by your insight maybe I am too ambitious.

Just frustrating from my point of view when you have the likes of Ray Houghton saying we should invest in our clubs at home and the All-Ireland league is bandied about among the commentators. It's like its within touching distance - but your perspective is, I would guess, a lot closer to the mark, unfortunatley.

[mark12345]

Where do you live, the US or Australia? Please don't try and cite those leagues as being succesful as they are both cack and nowhere near championship level. How do you even watch any of these games?


Is the season on in America right now? Bar Beckham you wouldn't even know they have a league

Can't speak too much about Australia, but from what I hear its a quite decent standard, but I doubt if there's one EL team who would make it in MLS - perhaps Pats or Bohs but they would be bottom of the pile. The standard in America is quite quite good.

[micls]

I know there's been a lot of back on forth on this subject but the results so far against Latvian, Finnish and Estonian opposition do not represent a step in the right direction - I think anyone who says it does is fooling himself.



Going from losing to these type of teams, to beating these type of teams is not a step in the right direction?

Em....ok.

[GavinZac]

The standard in America is quite quite good.I haven't seen MLS but I've seen the level below it - in fact, it was Long Island v Toronto who went on to join the MLS.
I would've done a decent job for either team myself. The game took place on a field outside a school, the 'stadium' was one wooden bleacher of the type common in the states in highschool gyms and such.

No-one's claiming that the league is perfect or even acceptable but it has come on bloody leaps and bounds and for you to make sweeping statements based on one edition of MNS and your own interpretation of the first few rounds of this year's UEFA comps is just asking for ire.

[Dodge]

I know there's been a lot of back on forth on this subject but the results so far against Latvian, Finnish and Estonian opposition do not represent a step in the right direction - I think anyone who says it does is fooling himself.
How can you say that results aren't a step in the right direction when they're the best ever (in total terms)



I've seen American soccer take off from a standard that was the equal of the Leinster Senior League in 1990 (no kiddin) to about Championship (England) level today. How does that happen
Money


in fairness maybe I'm way too ambitious - but in all honesty I'd love to hear some plans for the way forward for the EL from anyone on this board.
You've got flak because you've slagged the league and put NOTHING forward in terms of ideas. PLease remember that we have no money. If you can pt forward affordable ideas, please do so

[Soko]

Can't speak too much about Australia, but from what I hear its a quite decent standard, but I doubt if there's one EL team who would make it in MLS - perhaps Pats or Bohs but they would be bottom of the pile. The standard in America is quite quite good.



I'd prefer to pull off my toenails than watch that uninspiring, bland rubbish. You are really fooling yourself if that's your entertainment

[dcfcsteve]

Ok, a couple of points conceded. I don't know as much about the EL as you lads do. You're there every week and I'm not - I live thousands of miles away. But is it asking too much to expect a five-year plan or something of that nature to be put in place so that we can measure the league's progress.

It's not too much to ask for a 5 year plan for the league. But why are you having a go at the fans about that ? :confused: www.fai.ie : Have a word with them.


I know there's been a lot of back on forth on this subject but the results so far against Latvian, Finnish and Estonian opposition do not represent a step in the right direction - I think anyone who says it does is fooling himself.

Mark - you need some sort of reality check here. Firstly - there is a well known adage that you can only play the teams put out in front of you. At the moment, EL teams only get to play the likes of those teams. But not only do we play them, we usually beat them. And teams from leagues you probably think are a lot higher standard (e.g. Sweden). That wasn't the case 5 yeasr ago. Our league is slowly but steadily moving up the European rankings, and will continue to do so.In 5 years time we'll be beating the likes of Polish, Croatian etc teams regularly. All progress. How can you criticise the league for the fact we only get to play the likes of Finns etc, when we then get 7 points out of 9 in the three main Euro gameds against such competition. We can only play - and beat - wheoever we get drawn against.


I've seen American soccer take off from a standard that was the equal of the Leinster Senior League in 1990 (no kiddin) to about Championship (England) level today. How does that happen - when we at home have a hundred years of tradition behind us? Money helps yes but it needs a lot of hard work, sound advertising and good coaching as well - that's my take on it anyway.

You can't compare the US - with a population 75 times larger than Ireland and money to burn in professional sports - to Ireland. And don't be getting so cosy about the MLS yet. It's still a fairly new and unproven quantity, and America has proven very adept at having football bubbles that popped before. Let's see if the MLS is still around in 118 years time, just like league football in Ireland.


I've put out a few ideas, and I've received plenty of flak for that - in fairness maybe I'm way too ambitious - but in all honesty I'd love to hear some plans for the way forward for the EL from anyone on this board.

Bar asking fans for a 5 year plan - what ideas have you put out ? Seriously ? :confused: You've just sneered - and often from a basis of limited knowledge. If you find reactions form fans here rather spikey, it's because we have to deal with sneering ill-informed know alls every day of the week regarding our league. The sort who think they support a team form a town in England they couldn't even locate on a map.

[mark12345]

I'd prefer to pull off my toenails than watch that uninspiring, bland rubbish. You are really fooling yourself if that's your entertainment

Go ahead and pull your toenails off. I stand by what I said. It's not as entertaining as La Liga say or a Manchester or Old Firm derby, nowhere near it. I watch football from all around the world and it holds its own in terms of entertainment.

[mark12345]

Going from losing to these type of teams, to beating these type of teams is not a step in the right direction?

Em....ok.

In my book beating these teams is a basic requirement - then you move on to the next level

Em.........ok

[bigmac]

In my book beating these teams is a basic requirement - then you move on to the next level


It may be a basic requirement but it's a basic requirement that was not being fulfilled 5 years ago. It is now a regular and expected occurrence. Whether we've moved from bad to good or really awful to just plain bad is nit-picking. You cannot in all fairness suggest that there has been no improvement :confused:

[GavinZac]

In my book beating these teams is a basic requirement - then you move on to the next level

Em.........ok

Like eliminating teams from Sweden, Holland, Scotland, Croatia, right?

[micls]

In my book beating these teams is a basic requirement - then you move on to the next level

Em.........ok

Which is?

Basic requirement for who may I ask? Any league in the world? Beating the teams ahead of you in the rankings is basic requirment?

Beating seeded teams while unseeded?

[pineapple stu]

Please remember that we have no money.
Anyone else enjoy the irony in that? :p

mark's clearly a troll. Surprised at Dodge of all people biting!

[chipsahoy]

lads, beating swedish, dutch and croatian teams is a long long way off. plus whats the story with the serbian league? that'll probably (along with other such countries) surpass us if their behind us. we're not the only ones progressing lads

[charliesboots]

In my book beating these teams is a basic requirement - then you move on to the next level

Em.........ok

I'm nearly sure I'd consider that a step..........

[gustavo]

lads, beating swedish, dutch and croatian teams is a long long way off. plus whats the story with the serbian league? that'll probably (along with other such countries) surpass us if their behind us. we're not the only ones progressing lads

We've beaten Swedish teams a number of times already this decade

[micls]

lads, beating swedish,
Malmo, Djurgarden, Gotheburg in the last few years. Hammarby were poor last year and we should have beaten them, but we played brutally..... I wouldnt fear any Swedish team, although of course you would want an easier draw.



dutch
Nimejen?



and croatian teams is a long long way off.
Split?

We're not talking about passing them out anytime soon but they're far from unbeatable

[micls]

I'm nearly sure I'd consider that a step..........

No, apparently going from losing to winning isn't a step in the right direction. I guess its a step in the wrong direction so.......We need to revise the way we look tt things :confused:

[GavinZac]

lads, beating swedish, dutch and croatian teams is a long long way off. plus whats the story with the serbian league? that'll probably (along with other such countries) surpass us if their behind us. we're not the only ones progressing lads

Er - Eircom league teams have eliminated Gothenburg, Malmo and Djurgarden from Sweden in the last few years. Beating Swedish teams is a regular occurrence at this stage. On the occasions that ELoI teams have met Dutch and Croatian teams in the last few years, they've eliminated them too.

There was a football league here before 2006 you know ;)

[thischarmingman]

No, apparently going from losing to winning isn't a step in the right direction. I guess its a step in the wrong direction so.......

Hmmmm, is Mark12345 Pat "To be honest, we're glad to be out of the competition" Fenlon in disguise?

[paulie_walnuts]

lads, beating swedish, dutch and croatian teams is a long long way off. plus whats the story with the serbian league? that'll probably (along with other such countries) surpass us if their behind us. we're not the only ones progressing lads


Jeez that was some breeze that blew in there wasn't it?

Check your facts kid!

[thischarmingman]

lads, beating swedish, dutch and croatian teams is a long long way off. plus whats the story with the serbian league? that'll probably (along with other such countries) surpass us if their behind us. we're not the only ones progressing lads

http://weblogs.elearning.ubc.ca/vschools/fail.jpg

[mypost]

I've seen American soccer take off from a standard that was the equal of the Leinster Senior League in 1990 (no kiddin) to about Championship (England) level today. How does that happen?

:D:D:D

It doesn't.

[bigmac]

In fairness lads, give the Amrerican league a bit of slack. It's not as if we don't have arguments here about the standard of our own league - I'm sure that many of the same arguments come up there as well - Team X would easily hold their own in league Y for example. It's much easier for people looking in to make a summary judgement, but don't castigate Mark for forming an opinion based on a few MNS episodes and then do the same thing yourself with respect to MLS. The level may not be as high as proponents of the league will try to convince you (where else do we see that?) but you can't deny that there are some good players there - not just has-beens anymore (though there are those as well).

[fergalr]

Whta's the story? Clicked onto this thread expecting discussion on last night's game and instead get posts about the Australian and American leagues.

[bigmac]

Whta's the story? Clicked onto this thread expecting discussion on last night's game and instead get posts about the Australian and American leagues.

What European game was on last night?

[swinfordfc]

Lads,

tonight a lativan side and lithuania sides are playing "weaker" opposition and it looks that we will be further behind the 2 of these countries after tonight games! need a big Drogs performance on wednesday!