Today/Tonight Euro Latest

[Longfordian]

Sounds like Cork were all over them for the second half hitting the woodwork three times. The 'experts' reckon they're well capable of taking them over there.

[SkStu]

why do you think tonights result for cork was "dreadful"? Haka have had a good european run over the past couple of seasons for what I remember?

agreed - its a decent result.

[LeixlipRed]

They need to win over there. Not gonna happen.

[Sheridan]

Tend to agree, a high-scoring draw at home in Europe is never a good result in terms of qualification (even 0-0 is better than 2-1.) 1-1 and maybe they could play for penos. They've beaten better sides away from home but this scenario is different for obvious reasons.

[bennocelt]

Wonder will Bert Kassies be up tonite working on the co -efficients, i cant wait!!!!!!!!! (is that sad?):o

[mattl]

Lol I'm thrilled too!!

New co-efficient ranking just out!! http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2009.html

I can sleep soundly now lol...

[mandrake]

clifotnvile been hammered at home is no surprise...only back training a week probably v copenhagen total differnt class, wonder what the pitch was like, seen it in march , mud bath...
as a drogs fan i think we'll get a goal away, we made them look good first half.
cork suffered from not being seeded, well done pats...

[TheBoss]

Lol I'm thrilled too!!

New co-efficient ranking just out!! http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2009.html (http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ekassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2009.html)

I can sleep soundly now lol...

For next season, we are 27th, which is really good, ahead of Croatia and Poland unbelievably for the moment.

I think 2-2, is a decent result, but the mideset of Haka will cause confusion, Do they sit on it or try to go for it, I think Cork still have a good chance.

[micls]

Tonight was poor and very disappointing.

They are a poor team and we are far better, but we defended like schoolboys. 2 attacks and 2 shocking goals from a defensive point of view.

We on the other hand could have had 5/6 if we put even half our chances away. Hit the bar twice etc etc.

I wasnt too confident going into this, and I wont be confident going over there, but we've given ourselves a chance at least. 2 away goals is a lot to overcome though.

Overall just disappointing.

[bigmac]

For next season, we are 27th, which is really good, ahead of Croatia and Poland unbelievably for the moment.

I think 2-2, is a decent result, but the mideset of Haka will cause confusion, Do they sit on it or try to go for it, I think Cork still have a good chance.

You're a year ahead of yourself there - currently in 32nd spot with Latvia possibly in our sights.

[ollie]

Haka were poor overall but then again they never really had to play since we gave them 2 soft goals.. We were all over them like a bad rash in once we went 2-0 down. Could have easily scored 4 or 5 bar the woodwork/goalie in the second half.
Considering our position 10 mins into the second half I can't complain too much. I'd be reasonably confident of us doing the job over there but if we defend like we did tonight we can forget it. Haka have a few handy/pacy players but not much else besides,just hard workers...and that goalie was the worst kicker of a ball I've ever seen(or else the crowd got to him big time)...and talk about dodge hair.It was Chris Waddle-esque

[mark12345]

Just a few weeks ago I was beaten from pillar to post on this site for daring to suggest that Eircom League standards weren't up to much. I cited the evidence I'd seen on MNS, and using my life's experience (horribly misguided as it is) of watching and playing the game, and identifying good football from bad - I came to the above conclusion.

I ventured that the EL sides wouldn't do much in Europe either (the dialogue went as far as asking how far we are from an Irish side making the Champions League group stage) but again a torrent of abuse came flyin' back.

Well I stand corrected lads, the record so far makes great reading - Bohs out to a side from mighty Latvia, Drogheda up against it for the return leg to the European hot bed of Estonia and Cork as good as gone following a tussle with European 'giants' Haka.

Pats are in good shape, and fair play to them - but overall this 'know nothing' will be predicting another miserable year for a league which is more like a Reality TV show. It has no structure, no finances, no supporters and even less prospects for success. But don't dare mention that to anyone - you might just offend its die hard followers, who, if they
just stopped for a minute to think, would realise that they're the biggest obstacles of all.

[RonnieB]

Haka are a decent side with decent European pedigree. Talin have done pretty damn well the last few years and were unlucky not to put out red star last year. I for one don't suggest the league is the high flying league of the world but look at our position and the decent progress over the last few years by a lot of teams in Europe. It is going to be a long time before teams start having a decent go at the larger long time european teams in these rounds.



And to finish this off who gives a ****? The mighty bar stool population of this despiteful country are the ones who will stand up and shout out about poor progress in europe and how they lost to a shower from xyz land as they sup their pint in their Gerrard shirt.

People would want to get a serious idea about our place in the world at this point in time.

[micls]

Btw, well done to Pats. V. good result today and should go through now :)

[dcfcsteve]

Just a few weeks ago I was beaten from pillar to post on this site for daring to suggest that Eircom League standards weren't up to much. I cited the evidence I'd seen on MNS, and using my life's experience (horribly misguided as it is) of watching and playing the game, and identifying good football from bad - I came to the above conclusion.

I ventured that the EL sides wouldn't do much in Europe either (the dialogue went as far as asking how far we are from an Irish side making the Champions League group stage) but again a torrent of abuse came flyin' back.

Well I stand corrected lads, the record so far makes great reading - Bohs out to a side from mighty Latvia, Drogheda up against it for the return leg to the European hot bed of Estonia and Cork as good as gone following a tussle with European 'giants' Haka.

Pats are in good shape, and fair play to them - but overall this 'know nothing' will be predicting another miserable year for a league which is more like a Reality TV show. It has no structure, no finances, no supporters and even less prospects for success. But don't dare mention that to anyone - you might just offend its die hard followers, who, if they
just stopped for a minute to think, would realise that they're the biggest obstacles of all.

Few on this site are under any illusions of the standing and problems faced by our league. We're confronted by them daily, whilst it's merely occassional comic relief for you.

I didn't read your previous posts - but if they were written anything like this one, i'm not surprised you were harangued.

What exactly is the purpose of this post ? Are you here to say 'Look at me - I was right' ? In which case - even if it is rather premature - good for you. Now run along.

If you're here to do anything other than lecture us, then stick around. If not - then make like the Croats and 'split'...

[GavinZac]

Well I stand corrected lads, the record so far makes great reading - Bohs out to a side from mighty Latvia, Drogheda up against it for the return leg to the European hot bed of Estonia and Cork as good as gone following a tussle with European 'giants' Haka.Drogs won their game despite a pretty makeshift side and not being anywhere near the top of the table, and we (Cork) were by far the better team in our game - Good as gone? :confused: They got very fortunate with a couple of goals against the run of play and normality was restored in the second half. Any victory at all over there will do us to go through. Given that we have a fairly good record of winning or attain the draw we need away from home to progress (Malmo, Nijmegen, Ekranas, Djurgardens, Apollon, Valur) I'm pretty confident and looking forward to my trip.


you might just offend its die hard followers, who, if they
just stopped for a minute to think, would realise that they're the biggest obstacles of all.I would imagine that the problem is 'know nothings' who think they have a clue what they're talking about, and yet are the joke of European football. Now run along and set the recorder ready for MNS, I know we haven't got Dunphy to spoon feed you an opinion but just assume the opposite of Roddy Collin's view and you'll be ok.

[Dave77]

talking about what RonnieB and mark12345 are commenting on we have to ask the question what is success for LOI in europe?

is it competing with former USSR and Scandinavian countries etc (seeing 2-1 against estonian champions at home as a good result for example, mind you there is an away leg )
or is it with the aim of getting to european group stages.

I saw Bohs and Drogs play in europe and the teams they were playing were not up to much at all, but yet they didnt put them away i agree with what Hand said on MNS and these teams need to be put away. both drogs and bohs looked so much better, bohs are gone and i really hope drogs dont follow. LOI clubs must aim higher.

and talking about "barstoolers" if you want them to respect the league, estonian, latvian, lithuanian, kazach, albanian, certain scandanavian teams etc have to be brushed aside regularly and LOI teams simply dont do this.

[Saint_Charlie]

It has no structure, no finances, no supporters and even less prospects for success. But don't dare mention that to anyone - you might just offend its die hard followers, who, if they
just stopped for a minute to think, would realise that they're the biggest obstacles of all.

You what?

I'd imagine the vast sums of Irish people pumping money into the British game, while sniggering at the failings of Irish teams, have a more harmful effect on the league than a couple of faceless people moaning on the web...

[GavinZac]

and talking about "barstoolers" if you want them to respect the league, estonian, latvian, lithuanian, kazach, albanian, certain scandanavian teams etc have to be brushed aside regularly and LOI teams simply dont do this.
We are a nation of 4 million people, with a fairly unique sporting situation for western europe seeing football being the 3rd or even 4th game. Why exactly are we assuming that we can brush aside the nations similar to our own side? We have been beating them fairly regularly, we've been beating teams from the Scandinavian countries who are much larger and far longer established in professional football than ourselves, and we've been getting the odd but scarce result against 'higher class' teams from outside our "northern section" group, e.g. Nijmegen, Hadjuk Split, Apollon.

If all it required was barstoolers seeing us punch above our weight, we're already doing so. No, barstoolers require that we somehow compete with our supposed rival's league where the bottom placed team earns more than the team winning the champions league does. They require this, because they are weak, insecure sheep unable to see past the consensus of their group of mates or in some cases because they are just plain morons.

[Rovers Maniac]

We are a nation of 4 million people, with a fairly unique sporting situation for western europe seeing football being the 3rd or even 4th game. Why exactly are we assuming that we can brush aside the nations similar to our own side? We have been beating them fairly regularly, we've been beating teams from the Scandinavian countries who are much larger and far longer established in professional football than ourselves, and we've been getting the odd but scarce result against 'higher class' teams from outside our "northern section" group, e.g. Nijmegen, Hadjuk Split, Apollon.

If all it required was barstoolers seeing us punch above our weight, we're already doing so. No, barstoolers require that we somehow compete with our supposed rival's league where the bottom placed team earns more than the team winning the champions league does. They require this, because they are weak, insecure sheep unable to see past the consensus of their group of mates or in some cases because they are just plain morons.

Sligo Rovers could not beat this side so no bother trying lad !:)

[GavinZac]

Sligo Rovers could not beat this side so no bother trying lad !:)

:confused: er, what?

[bigmac]

talking about what RonnieB and mark12345 are commenting on we have to ask the question what is success for LOI in europe?


Success is improving and maintaining our showing in Europe each year. While it can be annoying and obsessive, the co-efficient is the only realistic measure of how one country does versus another. For me, when we talk about success we should be looking at about 5 year intervals. Where was the league 10 years ago? Where was it 5 years ago, and where is it now.
In 2000 Ireland was ranked 41st of the European leagues. This year we were ranked 35th. To me that's an improvement. If we break it further down, then success is climbing the ladder with consistent results every year, not one fantastic year and then 3 terrible years. For the last 4 years we have consistently added 1 point or more to the coefficient. In the previous 5 years, we had 1 year where 1 point or more was added - this is progress and success.
Obviously this isn't enough for Mark12345 and his friends, but we are never going to compete directly with other bigger leagues in Europe we don't have the money or interest in this country. But we're not hte only country in that position. I would imagine that if there is a foot.fr equivalent, there is probably a Marc12345 on there complaining about the standard of Ligue 1 and saying that it's rubbish and they won't do very well in Europe. It's all a matter of perspective and if you judge everything by the top 2/3 leagues then obviously all the rest are going to come up short. The important thing for the LOI is to keep pushing to improve its structures, its quality and its results against other leagues. Ill thought out rants and WUMs of Mark's ilk aren't going to do anything for the league or convince football fans to start following one money making company in England over another one.

[sullanefc]

Disappointing result. Should have been about 4/5 goals for City. We had all the ball in the first half, creating only 2-3 chances, in the second we absolutely battered them. They are very dangerous team on the counter attack that should not be taken lightly.

Having said that, from what I saw in the second half last night, we have a very good chance of beating them over there. It will be difficult but doable.

[derm]

Disappointing result. Should have been about 4/5 goals for City. We had all the ball in the first half, creating only 2-3 chances, in the second we absolutely battered them. They are very dangerous team on the counter attack that should not be taken lightly.

Having said that, from what I saw in the second half last night, we have a very good chance of beating them over there. It will be difficult but doable.

Agree with this. Unless they are a completely different team at home our biggest problem will be our own defence. I'm gutted we didn't win this, hit the woodwork three times and had one good peno shout when Healy was brought down (plus a couple of dodgy peno claims;) ). Having said that though we really missed O'Flynn last night

[ndrog]

What the likes of Mark12345 fails miserably to see is the total euphoria of seeing your hometown team win a champions leauge game .Heraing that music as the players came out onto the pitch was amazing for me and my fellow " supporters " .Lookin around and seeing family members and friends everywere in the stands is something these clueless people will never understand .Its called pride in were your from and who you are .Now run along the english want your money you foolish boy .

[Juanace]

In a nutshell then:

What number of coef points do we need to get in order to be seeded in UEFA Cup and Champions League next year - or where in the standings do we need to be?

What do we have to achieve to start in the second round of these competitons?

Thanks!

[pineapple stu]

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/access2009.html

[bigmac]

Firstly, it is the 2007 rankings that decided our European spots for this year, not last year's rankings - obviously this is so that leagues will know before they begin how many European spots are on offer (with the exception of fair play). Therefore the 2008 ranking of 35th is what will dictate our European qualifiers at the end of this season for the 2009/2010 season.

The Champions will therefore go into QR1 of the CL and by my calculations will probably not be seeded. This of course will depend on the coefficient at the end of this year, but I think that our representatives will end up the top unseeded team. Leaving aside club coefficients - which can of course throw things off, we would need to be in 32nd position to have our champions seeded.
With the new format Uefa Cup, the Cup winners will go into QR2 and the 2nd and 3rd placed teams will go into QR1. By my calculations, both teams in QR1 will be seeded, and the cup winners may just about be seeded - it depends on the regional split and fair play winners I think.

[OneRedArmy]

Just a few weeks ago I was beaten from pillar to post on this site for daring to suggest that Eircom League standards weren't up to much. I cited the evidence I'd seen on MNS, and using my life's experience (horribly misguided as it is) of watching and playing the game, and identifying good football from bad - I came to the above conclusion.

I ventured that the EL sides wouldn't do much in Europe either (the dialogue went as far as asking how far we are from an Irish side making the Champions League group stage) but again a torrent of abuse came flyin' back.

Well I stand corrected lads, the record so far makes great reading - Bohs out to a side from mighty Latvia, Drogheda up against it for the return leg to the European hot bed of Estonia and Cork as good as gone following a tussle with European 'giants' Haka.

Pats are in good shape, and fair play to them - but overall this 'know nothing' will be predicting another miserable year for a league which is more like a Reality TV show. It has no structure, no finances, no supporters and even less prospects for success. But don't dare mention that to anyone - you might just offend its die hard followers, who, if they
just stopped for a minute to think, would realise that they're the biggest obstacles of all.Apart from you being right all the time, whats your point?:confused:

[HarpoJoyce]

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/uefacup/news/kind=1/newsid=727066.html

This is the Access List for the UEFA CUP and is compiled before the tournament. The LoI (IRL) finished three clubs below the cut-off for seeding. It is hoped by naturally breaking our seeding IRL improves.

Every country has an average value, if a club does well in Europe it may have value above the Nat. Average (e.g man utd., dynamo kiev and from Iceland FH Hafnarfyjordur) those clubs earn and keep a higher value. Clubs with more modest results in Europe get the value of the National Average. That's why so many clubs share the same value. St. Pat's and Cork City included.

Explanation of which three clubs finished ahead:
Two Moldovan (MDA) and one Lith. (LTU) FC Suduva. The other LTU Ventspils had finished runners-up in their domestic cup and got the seeding from UEFA. FH (ISL) seeding had split the two LTU. Along with these targets Latvia (LVA) are close enough to be in our sights.
Because, at the moment, IRL is in Nth. Europe are ranking needs to move above LVA and LTU for the LoI clubs to edge a seeding. It depends on the Nth. Europe boundary not changing either.

There may be a rumour spread by Bert Kassels that Derry City have a very healthy individual value, above the LoI's average.

(That Access List has two FIN and FH ranked in a lower position than their value. I am presuming a clerical error and the value is correct, they should be placed higher in the table for clarity).

[higgins]

Bigmac.
I would be surprised if we are not seeded in the Champions League next season. We're currently 32nd in the list so even though we are entered in the rounds as 35th we will be 32nd in terms of the coefficient.

We could jump Latvia and lithuania too this year which would certainly make us seeds in Champions league and UEFA.

[OneRedArmy]

[url]There may be a rumour spread by Bert Kassels that Derry City have a very healthy individual value, above the LoI's average.:confused: Tell me more (I assume you are referring to the club coefficient a club gets when they get into the first round proper of a tournament?)

[cheifo]

Just a few weeks ago I was beaten from pillar to post on this site for daring to suggest that Eircom League standards weren't up to much. I cited the evidence I'd seen on MNS, and using my life's experience (horribly misguided as it is) of watching and playing the game, and identifying good football from bad - I came to the above conclusion.

I ventured that the EL sides wouldn't do much in Europe either (the dialogue went as far as asking how far we are from an Irish side making the Champions League group stage) but again a torrent of abuse came flyin' back.

Well I stand corrected lads, the record so far makes great reading - Bohs out to a side from mighty Latvia, Drogheda up against it for the return leg to the European hot bed of Estonia and Cork as good as gone following a tussle with European 'giants' Haka.



Pats are in good shape, and fair play to them - but overall this 'know nothing' will be predicting another miserable year for a league which is more like a Reality TV show. It has no structure, no finances, no supporters and even less prospects for success. But don't dare mention that to anyone - you might just offend its die hard followers, who, if they
just stopped for a minute to think, would realise that they're the biggest obstacles of all.

You are missing the simple point Mark.If you don,t support football in your Country then you can't seriously call yourself a football supporter,can you?
If you feel sitting at home or in the Pub listening to Andy and Richard qualifies you as one then fair enough but if you are really honest with yourself, you will understand how EL supporters find that view comical.
It is YOUR Countries League, if people like you would follow it then the gates/standard would get nearer to where we are aiming at.

[higgins]

Yes the draw with PSG would get you a point

[pineapple stu]

:confused: Tell me more (I assume you are referring to the club coefficient a club gets when they get into the first round proper of a tournament?)
Results outside the qualifying rounds (i.e. the draw with PSG) are added onto your country coefficient, so Derry would be seeded higher than, say, UCD. It's to separate the likes of Man Utd from Millwall, but isn't much in evidence down our level because we mostly don't get results outside qualifying. It's very handy though; would jump youz up three or four places I'd say.

[OneRedArmy]

Results outside the qualifying rounds (i.e. the draw with PSG) are added onto your country coefficient, so Derry would be seeded higher than, say, UCD. It's to separate the likes of Man Utd from Millwall, but isn't much in evidence down our level because we mostly don't get results outside qualifying. It's very handy though; would jump youz up three or four places I'd say.Thanks Stu, I'm fully up to speed on club coefficients.

I was referring to the "Bert Kassies rumour" point.

[pineapple stu]

Ah, I see.

That's just Harpo's way of talking. ;)

[bigmac]

Bigmac.
I would be surprised if we are not seeded in the Champions League next season. We're currently 32nd in the list so even though we are entered in the rounds as 35th we will be 32nd in terms of the coefficient.


Could be - I definitely hope so. Originally I looked at the draws around us and came up with this (http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=974244&postcount=155) prediction. I was looking at 33rd as minimum expected, wiht 32nd possible. Obviously some of that has changed due to first leg results - I didn't expect Llanelli to beat Ventspils or Glentoran to get a draw against Metalurgs. Equally I didn't expect both Hungarian teams to be held to a draw - these results have jumped us ahead of Hungary whom I pinpointed as the country we could get ahead of for 32nd place. We're still a win away from Latvia so we have to hope that Llanelli and Glentoran can help us out again there.

Given the easy Lithuanian draw (and a great performance to beat Stavanger), I don't see us overtaking them this year - they should realistically pick up at least another 2 wins in the 2nd legs which would give them another .666 points with minimum 4 games left in the next round.

[HarpoJoyce]

:confused: Tell me more (I assume you are referring to the club coefficient a club gets when they get into the first round proper of a tournament?)


Yes the draw with PSG would get you a point
Apologies higgins is this a part-reply to ORA. There PSG score is part of their individual co-efficient alright.


ORA, it's not as healthy as I though but Shels and Derry are above the IRL average. It's like I mentioned in my previous post above. FH Hafnarfyjordur (ISL) got a seeding in the UEFA Cup 'cos of their own efforts.

There is the Nat. Average value which is the majority of clubs and it's a value allocated because most clubs maybe qualify three, two times or less in five years and don't get an opportunity to collect alot of points. Shelbourne FC still and I will show Derry City FC have an individual co-efficients above the national average.

Also I presume, this comes from all match points, 1st round or qualifiers.

UEFA access list from 2007 - the year Derry were last in Europe. UEFA will publish clubs value when they qualify for Europe, (harder to get their figure for when a team is not in Europe that year.)
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl/news/kind=1/newsid=551776.html
"IRL1 q1 Derry City FC* 3.145"
"* Shelbourne FC won the title but did not apply to enter the UEFA Champions League after being relegated for financial reasons. Derry are expected to inherit their place in the competition as Irish runners-up. "

(UEFA gave us our own asterisk. I am not doing this to embarass anyone, honest) Please note the low IRL1 position but the higher value beside Derry City, I think it's to easier compare the quality of the individual club. Please note NK Zagreb and FC Kobenhavn aswel. Anyway 3.145 is above the UEFA seeds this year.

But that was one year ago, what shape are Derry in this year?
The foot.ie House Guest Bert Kassels (scroll down to pos. 205)
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/trank2008.html
" 205 Derry City Irl 0.1100 0.4400 0.6050 1.9350 0.3300 3.420
Shelbourne Irl 0.1100 1.4400 0.6050 0.9350 0.3300 3.420 "

"Ireland 0.1100 0.4400 0.6050 0.9350 0.3300 2.420 "

Derry City and Shelbourne will shed the first 0.1100. Hopefully team Ireland will make some progress too. But not all the way up to 3.320, surely?
Also, Shels and Derry have scored every year so I presume you will be due some points for this year also.

I found the UEFA page by searching "Access List 2007" cos I knew that was when Derry were last in Europe. Then looked at pub. dates til summer2007 looked promising.

The Bert Kassels list is a Team Ranking 2008 list but all his numbers come originaly from UEFA, my European protectors of football.

If you need anything clarified let me know.

If you need anything else, ask bigmac. He has a simpler understanding of the co-efficient.

[thischarmingman]

But don't dare mention that to anyone - you might just offend its die hard followers, who, if they
just stopped for a minute to think, would realise that they're the biggest obstacles of all.

What utter, utter garbage. Possibly the most idiotic argument I've ever heard on this forum.

[GavinZac]

What utter, utter garbage. Possibly the most idiotic argument I've ever heard on this forum.

You've obviously never tried out Current Affairs (http://foot.ie/forumdisplay.php?f=87)!

[thischarmingman]

You've obviously never tried out Current Affairs (http://foot.ie/forumdisplay.php?f=87)!
I lurk around Current Affairs sometimes...:o

I still stand by my first point though.

[bigmac]

To follow on from the Coefficient thread. My understanding of it (and I'm open to correction) is that each club is assigned a ranking value based on a combination of their own results and the results of their league in general.
As per the country ranking this goes on a 5 year rolling basis. For individual team coefficients, qualifying rounds don't count - only the first round proper - I don't know how or if this will change when the new format UEFA cup comes into play next year.
The country's coefficient is effectively shared out equally amongst teams - therefore a team entering a European competition this year that did not have any previous experience would be allocated a coefficient ranking of one third of the country's ranking
7.332 / 3 = 2.42
(this may also change next year when we have 4 teams in the UC, but other countries will also change accordingly.) We can use Derry as an example of a team that has its own coefficient as well:

In 06/07 Derry won 3 games and drew one in the first 2 qualifying rounds - they also drew one game in the first round proper.
Each qualifying win is worth a point, each Q draw .5 of a point
In the actual rounds, a win is worth 2 points and a draw 1 point
Derry therefore contributed 4.5 points to the coefficient, (or 1.5 in real terms)
Of the 4.5 points earned, the 1 point from the 1st round proper is also added to Derry's individual coefficient.


Each team's coefficient is equal to 1/3rd (because we have 3 qualifying teams) of the country's coefficient plus any individual coefficient. In Derry's case this means that while the 06/07 season is still counting towards the ranking, should Derry qualify for Europe, their coefficient will be 1pt larger than the other LOI teams. Had Derry been in Europe this year, they would have been allocated a coefficient of 3.42 and would, as Harpo says, have been seeded in the UC.

[HarpoJoyce]

Then I had it wrong, I taught it was all matches a club played and not just the bump of the first round proper points.

So bigmac, One Red Army, higgins and pineapple stu had the correct information before me. Sorry for confusing matters.

[Pablo Escobar]

Fair play to Pat's and Drogs. Pat's, I feel have a foot (and an arm) in the door already, while Drogs have a bit more to do, but if any team can force a 0-0 away from home.......;)

On us last night, we played the wrong tactics for the first hour. Tried to play 'Total Football', but nothing came off and we were punished. When we went at them though, they didn't seem to know how to handle it. If we start over there with the same attitude as we finished the last game with, I have no doubt that we'll go through.

[viagogo]

Was at the Cork game and one thing that struck me was the way that Haka played the referee. Every time they were touched they fell to the ground and got their free kick and took the pressure off themselves. With Corks experience I thought they would be well able for this sort of play but the players spent most of the time arguing with the ref. At least Mooney had the intelligence to 'win' us the free kick that lead to our 2nd goal. Will Irish teams ever learn to play this way.

[micls]

Will Irish teams ever learn to play this way.

To be perfectly honest I hope not. Its bad enough watching it for the couple of Euro games a year, I'd hate to watch it every week

[mark12345]

YOU POSTED: What the likes of Mark12345 fails miserably to see is the total euphoria of seeing your hometown team win a champions leauge game .Heraing that music as the players came out onto the pitch was amazing for me and my fellow " supporters " .Lookin around and seeing family members and friends everywere in the stands is something these clueless people will never understand .Its called pride in were your from and who you are .Now run along the english want your money you foolish boy .



......What, you think you're the only one who has ever had those feelings? I know I have felt pride in the teams I've supported, just like most on this board I would suggest, (and pride for LOI teams but a long time ago I must say).

And, just so as you know - the last time this 'foolish boy' gave the English me money was over 20 years ago - I don't go over, full stop. I've lived abroad for two decades and seen football take off in places where it had no tradition, and it has outstripped the LOI in its standards. How can others do it in such a short space of time while we, who have almost a century of tradition behind us, are still languishing in the doldrums. Could it be that the Irish club owners are so entrenched in their ways that they frighten any rich Irishman (and there are plenty of them willing to invest in English clubs) who wants to invest in them?

But the thing that really gets me is that any time you make an obvious statement about the LOI teams you are all of a sudden attacked by a small group who claim you don't know nothin.' Well, what I do know is that the record so far of the Irish teams in Europe has been nothing to write home about, much like previous seasons. And the way it's goin we'll be singing this song in fifty years time unless drastic change occurrs.

[bigmac]

Could it be that the Irish club owners are so entrenched in their ways that they frighten any rich Irishman (and there are plenty of them willing to invest in English clubs) who wants to invest in them?


How do the attitudes of the present club owners stop somebody from buying a club?




any time you make an obvious statement about the LOI teams
Which statement? The one about a "miserable" year for Irish clubs is the one I'm disputing - I don't think 2 wins and a draw from our first three games that matter is miserable at all.

If you were one of the, admittedly few, regular constructive posters you'd see that nobody is here saying that the EL is the best league in Europe or is fantastically run. We don't have our heads in the sand over the many problems that exist, but neither do we feel the need to celebrate, gloat or exhibit such schadenfreude when a team is knocked out of the InterToto cup on away goals. Are you on the Scottish forums laughing at their league because Hibs got spanked in their tie?

BTW, you didn't just ask a question about EL teams getting to group stages of the CL you said


until our teams start qualifying for the middle rounds of the Uefa Cup or the knockout stages of the Champions League, then how (as much as you lads try to persuade us otherwise) can they be taken seriously?

thus dismissing pretty much any country not ranked in the top 15 or so in Europe - should these leagues not be taken seriously either?

[bennocelt]

Was at the Cork game and one thing that struck me was the way that Haka played the referee. Every time they were touched they fell to the ground and got their free kick and took the pressure off themselves. With Corks experience I thought they would be well able for this sort of play but the players spent most of the time arguing with the ref. At least Mooney had the intelligence to 'win' us the free kick that lead to our 2nd goal. Will Irish teams ever learn to play this way.

you mean to cheat?:rolleyes: