Irish Sunderland fan here. Debate very interesting

[The Dublin Red]

But we cant attract people like you to our league because you are so brainwashed by your foreign club (no disrespect) that if Bray beat forest 10-0 in the CL it wouldnt turn you. You are right I dont recognise it as real support.

I used to support the Dubs but those days are gone seeing as the GAA are trying to kill off our club in Tallaght. Are you implying that EL players are not "real sportsmen"?? And if you think that inter county players are out of pocket I feel sorry for your naivety.

KOH

You can feel sorry all you like but the more I read this the less I'm inclined to follow the LOI. I haven't been brainwashed by anyone. I live in a free country and can make personal choices regardless of what certain LOI Zealouts think. I couldn't care less if you don't see it as real support. Likewise I'm sure you don't care being slagged off by GAA Zealouts for supporting the Garisson Games/Foreign Games. Both views are as bad as each other.

I disagree with what the GAA are doing in Tallaght but it reamins a fact that the GAA is the main sport in this country and the players only get expenses, I know a few inter-county players and the lecel depends on what county they're with.

[OneRedArmy]

Are you trying to say that rugby in Ireland is no more popular now than it was in 1991 ? If you're not, then clearly it's support has flowed - not ebbed.
I left school in Derry in 1991. At that time, St Columbs (largest Catholic boys school in the north) didn't play rugby -as, in fact, most Catholic schools didn't. Now it does, and has been doing for years. It's the same with a number of other Catholic schools I know in the north. Plenty of flow in-evidence, with very little ebb....

Who's to say it won't or can't all flow even further....?Steve not sure the example related to the popularity of rugby, more to the employment of a teacher who had played in the UK and wanted to share his love of rugby, along with support from CDRFC who were trying to start cross-community initiatives back in 1993.

The Irish team was very poor at that time and rugby really started to blossom in Ireland on the back of the Heineken Cup in the late 90s and an improving national side.

But I take the point that sports ebb and flow. Domestic basketball was ridiculously popular for a while in Ireland.

[The Dublin Red]

If you believe this to be true, then the planes full of Sunderland supporters and bars full of Chelsea fans must contain fans who are new to the game, as they weren't there 5 or 10 years ago.

Many are in their 30s and 40s and I find it highly unlikely they only recently discovered football.

More likely they have quietly changed alliegence from Leeds, Blackburn, Liverpool or whatever team used to be en vogue.

Ah I don't disagree with you and I'm sure this is the case but again this is representative of life in general. If people do that so what? Do yuo really want them at your games and changing like the weather?

You're not alone either, Forest have sold out this weeks game with Crewe as it means something. Where have they been all season? Or when we drew Chelsea in the Cup, everyone wanted a ticket, people who hadn't gone in years. It happens in all aspects of life.

[NY Hoop]

You can feel sorry all you like but the more I read this the less I'm inclined to follow the LOI. I haven't been brainwashed by anyone. I live in a free country and can make personal choices regardless of what certain LOI Zealouts think. I couldn't care less if you don't see it as real support. Likewise I'm sure you don't care being slagged off by GAA Zealouts for supporting the Garisson Games/Foreign Games. Both views are as bad as each other.

I disagree with what the GAA are doing in Tallaght but it reamins a fact that the GAA is the main sport in this country and the players only get expenses, I know a few inter-county players and the lecel depends on what county they're with.

Lecel?

Well thanks for coming but not sure why you did to be honest. You can call us all the names you want. I dont need to get on a plane to watch football. Do you cheer on england when they play Ireland?

KOH

[paul_oshea]

Yeah but Gaelic Football is a rubbish sport compared to Association Football and its rules have been utilised on this island no longer than the association rules, possibly for not as long.


The first reference to any code of football in Ireland occurs in the Statute of Galway of 1527, which allowed the playing of football and archery but banned "hokie' — the hurling of a little ball with sticks or staves" as well as other sports. However even "foot-ball" was banned by the severe Sunday Observance Act of 1695, which imposed a fine of one shilling (a substantial amount at the time) for those caught playing sports. It proved difficult, if not impossible for the authorities to enforce the Act and the earliest recorded match in Ireland was one between Louth and Meath, at Slane, in 1712.

By the early 19th century, various football games, referred to collectively as caid, were popular in Kerry , especially the Dingle Peninsula. Father W. Ferris described two forms of caid: the "field game" in which the object was to put the ball through arch-like goals, formed from the boughs of two trees, and; the epic "cross-country game" which lasted the whole of a Sunday (after mass) and was won by taking the ball across a parish boundary. "Wrestling", "holding" opposing players, and carrying the ball were all allowed.

Irish forms of football were not formally arranged into an organized playing code by the Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA) until 1887.

While it is clear even to casual observers that Gaelic football is similar to Australian rules football, the exact relationship is unclear, or even controversial. Australian rules was devised in Melbourne, in the Colony of Victoria, from 1858. Because of the Australian gold rushes, there were many Irishmen in Victoria at the time. The Australian historian B. W. O'Dwyer points out that both games have always been differentiated from rugby football by having no limitation on ball or player movement (in the absence of an offside rule); the need to bounce or toe-kick the ball, known as a solo in Gaelic football, while running; punching the ball (hand-passing) rather than throwing it, and other traditions.

[BohsPartisan]

But "Irish forms" were not peculiarly Irish. In fact they were almost identical to the English forms that spawned Rugby and Association football. Also similar to Calcio Fiorentino and other proto football type games. As you say the "Gaelic" rules were not utilised until 1887. Seeing as how Cliftonville FC was formed in 1879, the game foot.ie users predominantly know and love has more history behind it on the Island to the supposed "Irish" form.

Further reading "The Peoples' Game" by James Walvin, "Calcio" by John Foot.

[The Dublin Red]

Lecel?

Well thanks for coming but not sure why you did to be honest. You can call us all the names you want. I dont need to get on a plane to watch football. Do you cheer on england when they play Ireland?

KOH

Woops typed too fast! Meant level.

It's an excellent site, one of the best and most informative around and its a good debate.

The last comment is very lazy:rolleyes: In fairness you're better than that. It's no different from some GAA loo la slagging you off for following the evil of soccer!

I'm delighted you love your club but I object to the narrow viewpoint and disregard for those of us that have made different choices. In one way I've got to thank you as you've just made the reasons I support Forest even stronger!

[passinginterest]

I have to say I get really mixed feelings reading this thread. I can see where both sides are coming from and I really don't think the more extreme league of Ireland supporters do the league any favours with such a zero tolerance attitude to supporters of foreign teams.

Name calling and casting aspersions left, right and centre is hardly going to attract more supporters to games. Like the majority of footballers in my area (Wexford) my team growing up was an English one. Liverpool have been the team I follow since I was four or five years old and I'll always have a soft spot for them. I'd say it was only in my teenage years I realised the League of Ireland existed at all and started to take an interest. I had favourite teams over the years but never one that I stuck with like Liverpool.

I've come to realise in the last 5or 6 years (I'm 24 now) that I'm not a Liverpool supporter and never will be, I've never been to Anfield, I'll never be truly part of the club, although I'll probably always watch the results and be happy to see them win the champions league. Until recently I never felt I could be a League of Ireland supporter either. I had attended 3 games in total prior to this year. Then Wexford Youths was formed and I felt like I had a team I could really identify with, I'll still never be a hardcore supporter who goes to every game but if anyone asks who I support Wexford Youths is now my answer.

This year I've been to one pre season game, two Wexford Youths home games and a Bohemians home game. I take an interest in the league of Ireland and football in general. I'm still a casual supporter, but my alliegence has switched primarily to the domestic game. In many ways I feel like I'm exactly the kind of person that the league needs to attract and reading this thread I get the feeling I'm not wanted by a minority of 'hardcore' fans.

[BohsPartisan]

Dublin Red, You support Forest and Bray? Were you by any chance once a candidate for UCD Students' Union president?

[NY Hoop]

Woops typed too fast! Meant level.

It's an excellent site, one of the best and most informative around and its a good debate.

The last comment is very lazy:rolleyes: In fairness you're better than that. It's no different from some GAA loo la slagging you off for following the evil of soccer!

I'm delighted you love your club but I object to the narrow viewpoint and disregard for those of us that have made different choices. In one way I've got to thank you as you've just made the reasons I support Forest even stronger!


Not lazy at all. Beats me how people go berserk with joy when england lose at anything anywhere but then cheer on an english team when they play an Irish one.

If you love forest more cos of an internet site you need to get out more.

KOH

[jebus]

Dublin Red, You support Forest and Bray? Were you by any chance once a candidate for UCD Students' Union president?

The Red Menace has spies everywhere I tell you :p

[BohsPartisan]

The Red Menace has spies everywhere I tell you :p

No just wondering is he someone I knew at college who had those allegiances.

[The Dublin Red]

Dublin Red, You support Forest and Bray? Were you by any chance once a candidate for UCD Students' Union president?

Jaysus small world eh!!

Spot on my friend:D

[The Dublin Red]

Not lazy at all. Beats me how people go berserk with joy when england lose at anything anywhere but then cheer on an english team when they play an Irish one.

If you love forest more cos of an internet site you need to get out more.

KOH

Where are you getting this internet site thing from:confused:

I'm saying this site is superb and that why I've contributed to the debate.

[osarusan]

We (the royal we) criticize anybody who doesnt support eL football and supports Premiership football (or as we so wittily term it - Premiersh!t), we accuse them of having no loyalty, and no intelligence whatsoever, accuse them of being bandwagon jumpers, barstoolers, say we dont want them at our games, spoiling the purity (dont forget that eL football is the purest form of football to be found anywhere in the world), we bemoan the lack of facilites, but say we want to preserve the parochial element of our game.........a confused bunch.

[BohsPartisan]

We (the royal we) criticize anybody who doesnt support eL football and supports Premiership football (or as we so wittily term it - Premiersh!t), we accuse them of having no loyalty, and no intelligence whatsoever, accuse them of being bandwagon jumpers, barstoolers, say we dont want them at our games, spoiling the purity (dont forget that eL football is the purest form of football to be found anywhere in the world), we bemoan the lack of facilites, but say we want to preserve the parochial element of our game.........a confused bunch.


I'm intrigued by your ideas and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter! ;)

[jebus]

We (the royal we) criticize anybody who doesnt support eL football and supports Premiership football (or as we so wittily term it - Premiersh!t), we accuse them of having no loyalty, and no intelligence whatsoever, accuse them of being bandwagon jumpers, barstoolers, say we dont want them at our games, spoiling the purity (dont forget that eL football is the purest form of football to be found anywhere in the world), we bemoan the lack of facilites, but say we want to preserve the parochial element of our game.........a confused bunch.

Not to mention that we all jump up in delight at the thought of a foreigner supporting an EL club. (this isn't a dig at Galway okay)When that Japanese girl who supports Galway came over recently loads of people on here, including some of the ones castigating Irish Premiership supporters, nearly wet themselves with well dones for her, but I ask you this, if we are being all high and mighty about people who support English teams, then why weren't we asking why she doesn't support her local Japanese team?

[osarusan]

I'm intrigued by your ideas and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter! ;)

Vote osaru.

[Pablo]

The only thing I have to say to this Sunderland "supporter" is that you can never say the word "we" and truely understand the meaning of the word.

[superfrank]

The same could be said about those Italian Cork fans a while ago or the lads from Falkirk who support Galway (was it??)

[lofty9]

Apologies if posted somewhere on here already, but this is how some English view us supporting their teams. Some eejits on there but a few valid points made in amongst some of the rubbish.


http://forum.football365.com/index.php?t=msg&th=328229&start=0&rid=&S=a71c8e7d58ec08517775943bfdbe66b2

[osarusan]

Not to mention that we all jump up in delight at the thought of a foreigner supporting an EL club. (this isn't a dig at Galway okay)When that Japanese girl who supports Galway came over recently loads of people on here, including some of the ones castigating Irish Premiership supporters, nearly wet themselves with well dones for her, but I ask you this, if we are being all high and mighty about people who support English teams, then why weren't we asking why she doesn't support her local Japanese team?


Right. We dont seem to show the same contempt for those who choose to come over to Ireland as we do for those who go the other way.............in fact, we like to think of them as "more discerning beer drinkers";)

[BohsPartisan]

.............in fact, we like to think of them as "more discerning beer drinkers";)

:D
Very good.

[jebus]

Apologies if posted somewhere on here already, but this is how some English view us supporting their teams. Some eejits on there but a few valid points made in amongst some of the rubbish.


http://forum.football365.com/index.php?t=msg&th=328229&start=0&rid=&S=a71c8e7d58ec08517775943bfdbe66b2

Nice to see Limerick get a mention on the first page, in theory I agree with some of them....in theory.

Problem with football365 forums is that there are so many WUMs on that place that I can't get a look in :D

[The Dublin Red]

Apologies if posted somewhere on here already, but this is how some English view us supporting their teams. Some eejits on there but a few valid points made in amongst some of the rubbish.


http://forum.football365.com/index.php?t=msg&th=328229&start=0&rid=&S=a71c8e7d58ec08517775943bfdbe66b2


The internet is a breeding ground for every lunatic and this is hardly representative.

Have you ever seen the Irish section on **********? Paints a sizeable number of Irish as racist scum.

[paul_oshea]

joesoap i send your post about rugby in limerick and got this back from a mate. he made one very valid point: actually two!

every sport has bandwagon jumpers. Limerick rugby will never die out. If tomorrow the IRFU abandoned their structures, the Heineken cup was no more and the players returned to the clubs people would go back and support the clubs. When I was growing up, I'd go to local matches in Thomand Park (Shannon, Young Munster or Garryowen) and there were as many if not more people at those matches than there are going to Munster matches now (Heineken Cup included).

Conclusion:
- this is more or less the end of the rugby season so it's only natural for things to wind down
- I think it's only natural for people to go through a low after the highs of last year.. it doesn't mean that your not a Munster fan. Being a Munster fan is something you're born into like being Irish

[Billy Lord]

How many English people support Milan? They're as English as any British club is Irish, and even have a St George's flag on their crest, but any self-respecting English person would laugh at the notion of switching allegiances from even a Conference club to one of the giants of world football.
The Irish who support British clubs above their own will always find an excuse and I love the 'Irish connections' one in particular. As if no Irish club wouldn't have more 'Irish connections' than any British club.
Funny how Liverpool, for example, only grew green wings when they started becoming successful. Before that Everton were the 'Irish' club on Merseyside.
The English are a very tolerant people and even many of them find it absurd that Irish people support British clubs ahead of their own.
Having said all that, we're just going around in circles here.
Anyone got a spare Champions League Final ticket?

[The Dublin Red]

How many English people support Milan? They're as English as any British club is Irish, and even have a St George's flag on their crest, but any self-respecting English person would laugh at the notion of switching allegiances from even a Conference club to one of the giants of world football.
The Irish who support British clubs above their own will always find an excuse and I love the 'Irish connections' one in particular. As if no Irish club wouldn't have more 'Irish connections' than any British club.
Funny how Liverpool, for example, only grew green wings when they started becoming successful. Before that Everton were the 'Irish' club on Merseyside.
The English are a very tolerant people and even many of them find it absurd that Irish people support British clubs ahead of their own.
Having said all that, we're just going around in circles here.
Anyone got a spare Champions League Final ticket?

I see your point but the fact is we have more in common with our neighbours be it from music, culture and even Soap Operas!

For a lot of us we discovered the club we support from an early age, I was 10and well before I could get to a LOI match. I don't really buy into the Irish thing like you but again its a reason for some people to support a club in England.

I think we all agree that bandwagon jumpers and those that switch clubs cannot be seen as true football fans. Then again I respect their right to do so, its a free country.

On the point of English supporters I've noticed more and more Chelsea and Arsenal shirts in Nottingham over the years so the bandwagon effect is not exclusive to Ireland.

[osarusan]

On the point of English supporters I've noticed more and more Chelsea and Arsenal shirts in Nottingham over the years so the bandwagon effect is not exclusive to Ireland.

Agreed. When I was at a game in Ibrox a few years ago, after the game one thing which struck me was the hundreds, literally, of coaches, all around the ground, taking Rangers "fans" back to small towns around Scotland, where the managers of the local teams must be tearing their hair out.

The idea that only the Irish choose other clubs over their local club is just wrong. Its not a commendable practice, but it is not exclusive to the Irish.

[Dr.Nightdub]

I don't buy the theory of you're Irish support an Irish club exclusively

No-one's saying "exclusively", I'd be perfectly happy for people start off with "as well" and have every confidence that eventually that'd change (by their own volition) to "first and foremost".

[jmurphyc]

No-one's saying "exclusively", I'd be perfectly happy for people start off with "as well" and have every confidence that eventually that'd change (by their own volition) to "first and foremost".

Yeah, I think I'm going down that road. I lived in England in my teenage years supporting Liverpool, and came back a few years ago and have started supporting LOI. Soon I think I'll probably be more a fan of LOI than a Liverpool fan.

[dcfcsteve]

In reference to someone saying "you compared supporting a team to a gig", I am a big fan of hard rock/metal/whatever you want to call it, and view it in the same way as supporting a team - almost. Its not consumerism, its much much more than that. so dont put it down! ;)

What is it with Roscommon fellas and hard rock....? :eek: :D

[dcfcsteve]

In one way I've got to thank you as you've just made the reasons I support Forest even stronger!

Have they signed another Paddy thanks to NY Hoop, or has their kit just got a little bit redder/nicer then.....? :D ;)

[dcfcsteve]

We (the royal we) criticize anybody who doesnt support eL football and supports Premiership football (or as we so wittily term it - Premiersh!t), we accuse them of having no loyalty, and no intelligence whatsoever, accuse them of being bandwagon jumpers, barstoolers, say we dont want them at our games, spoiling the purity (dont forget that eL football is the purest form of football to be found anywhere in the world), we bemoan the lack of facilites, but say we want to preserve the parochial element of our game.........a confused bunch.

What parochial element of our game ??? :confused:

Football is the most global game in the wolrd. Our clubs partake in cross-border and European tournaments.

There's nothing parochial about undertsanding that swearing allegiance to a team you picked at random as a child is ludicrous, especially when you don't do the same when it comes to international football.

You say parochial, I say consistent....

[Billy Lord]

I see your point but the fact is we have more in common with our neighbours be it from music, culture and even Soap Operas!

For a lot of us we discovered the club we support from an early age, I was 10and well before I could get to a LOI match. I don't really buy into the Irish thing like you but again its a reason for some people to support a club in England.

I think we all agree that bandwagon jumpers and those that switch clubs cannot be seen as true football fans. Then again I respect their right to do so, its a free country.

On the point of English supporters I've noticed more and more Chelsea and Arsenal shirts in Nottingham over the years so the bandwagon effect is not exclusive to Ireland.

As a fan of English football (I've been going regularly to Old Trafford since 1974 but Shamrock Rovers is my true love) I find it sad that Nottingham people would support clubs other than their own. And it certainly doesn't justify Irish people being equally mercenary from a greater distance.
If I was born and raised in Nottingham I'd support either County or Forest first and have nothing but contempt for those who didn't do likewise. Why put a distant club first when there's one on your doorstep?

[The Dublin Red]

As a fan of English football (I've been going regularly to Old Trafford since 1974 but Shamrock Rovers is my true love) I find it sad that Nottingham people would support clubs other than their own. And it certainly doesn't justify Irish people being equally mercenary from a greater distance.
If I was born and raised in Nottingham I'd support either County or Forest first and have nothing but contempt for those who didn't do likewise. Why put a distant club first when there's one on your doorstep?


I wouldn't regard myself as a mercenary quite frankly, if I hopped between clubs then yes I would be.

Clubs like Forest have support well outside the city and county boundries I know the people I go to games with come from all over England, there are also Norwegian, Swedish and Belgian Branches to name three.

It still all comes down to personal choice and people having the freedom to spend money as they see fit. Being dictated to and told your lesser by certain supporters makes absolutely no difference to me or the other thousands who support clubs outside this juristiction.

As I said before its no different to the GAA Taliban having a go at soccer supporters for chosing a foreign game over THE national sport.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

It's unreasonable to slag people off for having an English team since they were a kid as if they did it on purpose. You don't really make that choice when you're five or six.

For the vast majority of our generation the commercial wave of Liverpool and United and Everton was where the ganging-up and the tribalism and the slagging was, in much the same way (but without the match-going, obviously) as Drums and Bohs and Shels and Rovers captured the imagination of the previous generation. Most of our fathers never passed it down; blame progress or highlights or administration or a betrayal of heritage or whatever.

A tiny amount of us were aware of the native league because of unbroken family tradition and some others happened upon it in our early teens through schoolmates or what have you; for most the English football scene was too ingrained by that stage (and maybe their families already had an English-football history) and League of Ireland never registered.

Now, if most of your childhood and youth was spent investing massive amounts of emotional capital (gloryhunting) into Liverpool's fortunes what are you meant to do when you start going to Bohs matches, just stop caring all of a sudden and tell yourself your childhood was wrong? How warped would that make you? Starting afresh and building a brand new 'only team for me' in your teens? You'd be like some kind of capricious, not-well-in-the-head stalker.

90% of the lads behind the goal in the Shed when I started going to Dalymount (early '90s) would follow the English football to some extent as well (not to mention The Scottish Club). During some of the more boring matches or at half time there would even be terrace-dividing "Liverpool/United" chants akin to the good-humoured "Celtic/Rangers" chants you'd get in English grounds in the '70s. And then all would join together and sing "you can stick your English football up your arse". A bit confused. But honest. These were lads who loved their Bohs, put their hard-earned where their mouths were, and went to every away match they could. (I wouldn't find their other 'casual' antics so funny nowadays, though, to be fair.)

I think it was one of the UCD posters said a while ago that League of Ireland in Ireland is like the Irish language in Ireland; it's a brilliant parallel. Unfortunately, there are cognate sections -- recent converts, in many cases -- within the two 'movements' whose puritanical zeal is unbecoming and makes demands that are at odds with reality.

"You're Irish, support an Irish team" = "Cad ina thaobh go labhrófása, Éireannach, teanga an tSasanaigh?"

It's not as simple as that, sure, and people need to stop implying it is. (Or else at least start speaking Irish when they're telling people to act like proper Irishmen ;))

[stampp]

Here's an interesting twist. Sunderland are setting up a pitch for hurling:

http://www.unison.ie/sportsdesk/gaafootball/stories.php3?ca=13&si=1823477

[passinginterest]

Well done Erstwhile Bóz for making a very sensible and valid argument. Have to agree with pretty much all of what you said.

[paul_oshea]

What is it with Roscommon fellas and hard rock....?

Are your cousins that way inclined too Steve? :D Unfortunately, I dont know too many others in ros that are, as I always got slagged about my taste in music, and anytime i would put it on the jukebox i was met with a chorus of "turn down that sh1te/turn off that sh1te". :(

That does remind me though of when I lived in teh states and this dublin lad I lived with was convinced that country people like hard rock cos they were backward and it was 10 years behind anything else......


erstwhile, great post. You now have taken the mantle from myself as being the most informed, sensible and fair poster on this site. Well done. :)

[Billy Lord]

I wouldn't regard myself as a mercenary quite frankly, if I hopped between clubs then yes I would be.

Clubs like Forest have support well outside the city and county boundries I know the people I go to games with come from all over England, there are also Norwegian, Swedish and Belgian Branches to name three.

It still all comes down to personal choice and people having the freedom to spend money as they see fit. Being dictated to and told your lesser by certain supporters makes absolutely no difference to me or the other thousands who support clubs outside this juristiction.

As I said before its no different to the GAA Taliban having a go at soccer supporters for chosing a foreign game over THE national sport.


Association Football has been played in Ireland for longer than the GAA games so it could hardly be described as 'foreign'. I grew up in a football family and, if anything, gaelic games were 'foreign' to me. Besides, the GAA picks and chooses what it calls 'foreign' as golf, American football, boxing, basketball and - as Thomas Davis had on Paddy's Day in their clubhouse - American Wrestling all seem to be okay, but football and rugby union are verboten.
I'm not knocking you for supporting a football club, I just can't understand why you'd place your loyalties in somewhere as obscure as Nottingham rather than at home. What's the point? It's not about 'spending money' either, as you couldn't equate supporting a football club with buying a book or a pair of jeans.
There's a dichotomy at the heart of your support for Forest that cannot be dismissed as mere consumerism given that the club isn't up to much these days. If you're making a choice, how come you continue to make such a poor one? And why support a rubbish English club when there are plenty of rubbish Irish clubs, some much better than Forest, that you could support on a weekly basis? There must be more to your support than something as bland and meaningless as 'choice'.
For example: if England are playing Ireland, who would you be up for? Would it be your 'choice' to support one over the other?
If football isn't about a sense of place and identity then it's just a game. Maybe that's the difference between you and I. To me, Shamrock Rovers is a way of life and not a matter of choice.
You chose Forest; I am Rovers.

[jebus]

Association Football has been played in Ireland for longer than the GAA games so it could hardly be described as 'foreign'. I grew up in a football family and, if anything, gaelic games were 'foreign' to me. Besides, the GAA picks and chooses what it calls 'foreign' as golf, American football, boxing, basketball and - as Thomas Davis had on Paddy's Day in their clubhouse - American Wrestling all seem to be okay, but football and rugby union are verboten.
I'm not knocking you for supporting a football club, I just can't understand why you'd place your loyalties in somewhere as obscure as Nottingham rather than at home. What's the point? It's not about 'spending money' either, as you couldn't equate supporting a football club with buying a book or a pair of jeans.
There's a dichotomy at the heart of your support for Forest that cannot be dismissed as mere consumerism given that the club isn't up to much these days. If you're making a choice, how come you continue to make such a poor one? And why support a rubbish English club when there are plenty of rubbish Irish clubs, some much better than Forest, that you could support on a weekly basis? There must be more to your support than something as bland and meaningless as 'choice'.
For example: if England are playing Ireland, who would you be up for? Would it be your 'choice' to support one over the other?
If football isn't about a sense of place and identity then it's just a game. Maybe that's the difference between you and I. To me, Shamrock Rovers is a way of life and not a matter of choice.
You chose Forest; I am Rovers.

Altogether now everyone.....*slow hand clap*

A couple of points there, who in Ireland are better than Forest? The standard of the league this year is muck, pretty much everyone around here agrees to that, and Forest aren't that bad a League One side, one that could easily be a Championship side by next week.

If football is solely about a place and identity than surely there is a point to be made as regards what identity Ireland as a whole has taken on today? We live in a country that is British in culture, so surely it could be argued that since we grew up in this culture that it doesn't take much of a leap to start supporting a British football team?

When you ask if you're making a choice how come you make such a poor one, well that's really just your opinion, most football fans in Ireland think we make a poor choice every week we go to watch our respective teams

I'm assuming that this Forest supporter initially started watching them when they were a 1st Division/Premiership team? If so then I think he should be applauded fro sticking with them through the rough patches, surely thats the hallmark of someone who isn't a 'barstooler'? For my part I've been a Sheffield Wednesday supporter for 15 years now, a Limerick supporter for 5, would it not be idiotic of me to say that I've dropped my support for Wednesday, just because I go to Limerick games more frequently? Up until two years I would have probably said that I still support Wednesday more than Limerick, thats changed because of the obvious reason that I watch Limerick more, enjoy the atmosphere (especially on away trips) and talk about Limerick's fortunes more, but I wouldn't go around castigating anyone for choosing to support a British club, especially as I still watch English football probably the most of any other country in this world, and I still rank myself as a Sheffield Wednesday supporter

[Mental Man]

Just my two pence worth here, on local radio this morning there was a DJ on from Sunderland talking to our own local Dj and "our" link with this foreign club is Daryl Murphy, now i wish Daryl well dont get me wrong but even down here there is people going around wearing foreign jerseys and some with Murphy on the back of them.
There was a good few Blues heads texted in saying If these Gob****es spent their money on home clubs instead of UK clubs then the league would be the better for it , 1 particluar guy who texted in said to the DJ " who do u want to see - a successful Blues or a successful Sunderland. "
I have no time for foreign clubs, f**k it if you cant support your own local team then u aint a footie supporter,supporting your local club is about who you are, nothing compares as we all know in going week in week out around the countryside following "your" team and when you do that you can proudly call yourself a soccer supporter!

[The Dublin Red]

Association Football has been played in Ireland for longer than the GAA games so it could hardly be described as 'foreign'. I grew up in a football family and, if anything, gaelic games were 'foreign' to me. Besides, the GAA picks and chooses what it calls 'foreign' as golf, American football, boxing, basketball and - as Thomas Davis had on Paddy's Day in their clubhouse - American Wrestling all seem to be okay, but football and rugby union are verboten.
I'm not knocking you for supporting a football club, I just can't understand why you'd place your loyalties in somewhere as obscure as Nottingham rather than at home. What's the point? It's not about 'spending money' either, as you couldn't equate supporting a football club with buying a book or a pair of jeans.
There's a dichotomy at the heart of your support for Forest that cannot be dismissed as mere consumerism given that the club isn't up to much these days. If you're making a choice, how come you continue to make such a poor one? And why support a rubbish English club when there are plenty of rubbish Irish clubs, some much better than Forest, that you could support on a weekly basis? There must be more to your support than something as bland and meaningless as 'choice'.
For example: if England are playing Ireland, who would you be up for? Would it be your 'choice' to support one over the other?
If football isn't about a sense of place and identity then it's just a game. Maybe that's the difference between you and I. To me, Shamrock Rovers is a way of life and not a matter of choice.
You chose Forest; I am Rovers.

Your point about the GAA would get my agreement however the argument you make is similar to the narrowness that sections of the GAA support hold. For them you are a lesser irish person as you've chosen to support a foreign game. I don't agree with it but that viewpoint exists.

However your views of me I see as being exactly the same and another reason why the LOI may unfortunately remain small. You make the point that my club is "rubbish" and why do I stick with them. You are now beginning to sound like a barstooler. I hear this from Man U and Arsenal fans, as Forest are rubbish why stick with them??? I've explained in previous posts why I support Forest, in summary it began at 12 years of age in 1988 and influenced by Brian Clough, Robin Hood, my Grandad and a new schoolbag! Once I began making the trips over I was hooked and although I was a LOI season ticket holder during my teens both experiences could not be compared. I'm sure its different for others but that is MY choice.

The England V Ireland point is ridiculous. I support Ireland but I don't hate England for that matter.

As for Shamrock Rovers, is it for Dublin people only then? or Tallaght people? or what?

I'm going to the City Ground for the last match of the season (hopefully) I cannot wait to go and the day will be a total buzz from pre-match pints to a 30,000 crowd! The fact remains English football is exciting and for many of us we are addicted. In what other league in the World could a 3rd division football club command a 30,000 gate?

[The Dublin Red]

Just my two pence worth here, on local radio this morning there was a DJ on from Sunderland talking to our own local Dj and "our" link with this foreign club is Daryl Murphy, now i wish Daryl well dont get me wrong but even down here there is people going around wearing foreign jerseys and some with Murphy on the back of them.
There was a good few Blues heads texted in saying If these Gob****es spent their money on home clubs instead of UK clubs then the league would be the better for it , 1 particluar guy who texted in said to the DJ " who do u want to see - a successful Blues or a successful Sunderland. "
I have no time for foreign clubs, f**k it if you cant support your own local team then u aint a footie supporter,supporting your local club is about who you are, nothing compares as we all know in going week in week out around the countryside following "your" team and when you do that you can proudly call yourself a soccer supporter!

That's your perogative but with attitudes like this those interested in football will remain in the bars and packing them out when the Champions League is on!

Sell the LOI to all football people, its a great product but don't make it exclusive, if people have an English club respect it and don't turn into GAA style bigots.

[Fingal hoop]

depends if a big club got relegated 2 divisions

[Erstwhile Bóz]

As for Shamrock Rovers, is it for Dublin people only then? or Tallaght people? or what?

Rovers is for any and all people who want to KOH, regardless of geographical persuasion, as long as they are not well in the head and they don't bring mandarins and satsumas to the match.

[BohsPartisan]

depends if a big club got relegated 2 divisions

One division is OK then?

[NY Hoop]

The internet is a breeding ground for every lunatic and this is hardly representative.

Have you ever seen the Irish section on **********? Paints a sizeable number of Irish as racist scum.

Some good points made there by the real fans. Because of the idiot paddies who ignore their own league going over in their droves like sheep the prices have gone up and real fans there cant get tickets.

Bottom line you're not from nottingham so you can never have any identity with them. It's got nothing to do with narrow mindedness, bigotry or who is the better Irishman.

KOH

[passinginterest]

Some good points made there by the real fans. Because of the idiot paddies who ignore their own league going over in their droves like sheep the prices have gone up and real fans there cant get tickets.

Bottom line you're not from nottingham so you can never have any identity with them. It's got nothing to do with narrow mindedness, bigotry or who is the better Irishman.

KOH

By that logic the famous Wexford fan who goes to every Shelbourne game is not a real fan and never will be. It's a flawed logic.

I spend an awful lot of time in Tallaght and for the last few years I planned on buying a Rovers season ticket when the stadium gets finished. It still might happen but you make me have doubts. I will probably live in Tallaght in the long run as that's where my girlfriend of the last 4 years is from. Am I not allowed to support your club?