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BohsPartisan
30/04/2007, 4:15 PM
That's a contradiction if ever I read one. Not voting for any crazy left wingers and you're voting for Sinn Fein.
No contradiction there. The Shinners have long moved into the washing powder centre of Politics.
Better you vote Fine Gael than Fianna Failures if just for the latter reason, but on the former point do you not think Fine Gael will do just the same? They're Fine Fail II, essentially. Any semblence they had to an alternative disappeared even before Kenny. I've actually read their policy documents, and they're simply rubbish.
adam
Oh I'm sure they probably will, the difference being that Fianna Fail have already done so, so if I'm given the choice between a Fine Gael/Labour/possibly Greens coalition I'll take that any day of the week over Fianna Fail's money grabbers and the PDs right wing scum
WeAreRovers
30/04/2007, 4:40 PM
No contradiction there. The Shinners have long moved into the washing powder centre of Politics.
My 'crazy lefty' friend is correct. Watch how fast the Shinners drop all that lefty rhetoric as soon as they get a sniff of power.
KOH
Shelsman
30/04/2007, 4:40 PM
The problem I see with the set up ( much as it is wonderful to have so many parties when compared to the US or UK ) is that it is unlikely that the smaller parties such as Sinn Féin, The Greens or The Socialist Party are likely to form part of a rainbow coalition with any of the main parties ( FF, FG and Labour ). This is quite a dilemma indeed.
Shelsman
30/04/2007, 4:42 PM
No contradiction there. The Shinners have long moved into the washing powder centre of Politics.
I haven't heard much in the way of policies from them except what relates to 'The North'. Feel free to enlighten us.
The problem I see with the set up ( much as it is wonderful to have so many parties when compared to the US or UK ) is that it is unlikely that the smaller parties such as Sinn Féin, The Greens or The Socialist Party are likely to form part of a rainbow coalition with any of the main parties ( FF, FG and Labour ). This is quite a dilemma indeed.
I don't know, the Greens and Sinn Fein are polling as well as the PDs (probably better come election time) and they are in power at the moment
BohsPartisan
30/04/2007, 4:53 PM
I haven't heard much in the way of policies from them except what relates to 'The North'. Feel free to enlighten us.
1. They have already dropped the Socialist tag from they're official material (Ógra still use it AFAIK).
2. The new breed of Shinners like Mary Lou and Eoin O Broinn (spelling?) come accross very much like the FF of old, dismiss talk of "socialist" politics and place themselves firmly in the centre, like FF without the planning corruption (yet).
3. The stated willingness to go into coalition with FF and all the compromises that go with that.
4. Their actions in the northern assembly carrying out anti-worker policies such as Martin McGuinness refusing to give holiday pay to term time workers and applying PPP's to the education sector. and Barbera De Bruin presiding over hospital closures.
nedder
30/04/2007, 7:51 PM
at the moment, Fianna Fail would get my vote, but I'm open to listening to the alternative(s). I'm vting for FF probably because the alternatives haven't convinced me of being a better option yet. ( i bet there are lots of others thinking the same too)
Would possilby like to see a coalition between FF, Greens and Labour
dahamsta
30/04/2007, 8:00 PM
Yeah, there isn't a hope of finding a better collection of thieves, liars and incompetents than the one we have at the moment. Fianna Fail have the genre sewn up.
Conor H
30/04/2007, 8:18 PM
Yeah, there isn't a hope of finding a better collection of thieves, liars and incompetents than the one we have at the moment. Fianna Fail have the genre sewn up.
Yet there winning this poll.
Also why do people have such a strong dislike for the PD's?Just curious to know....
And what issues are people going to vote for/against respective Parties?
The abolition of the Irish language as cumpolsory at LC Level has made me strongly anti Fine Gael...they won't be getting one vote off me.
Yet there winning this poll.
Also why do people have such a strong dislike for the PD's?Just curious to know....
And what issues are people going to vote for/against respective Parties?
The abolition of the Irish language as cumpolsory at LC Level has made me strongly anti Fine Gael...they won't be getting one vote off me.
Basically I'm looking for the party that talks the best talk in regards to raising the standard of living amongst the working class, not Bertie's Dublin friends. I'm looking at who is offering more in regards to schooling, minimum wage, health benefits and unemployment benefits, plus I am very much against the re-inroduction of college fees, as proposed by Fianna Fail. Outside of that my other concerns are enviromental issues, Ireland's transport system and on Ireland's stance on the ongoing War on Terror (I don't think we can class ourselves as neutral anymore). So basically if Fine Gael/Labour and the Greens form a coalition, then thats what I'm looking for.
As for the PDs, well its hard to express how much they would love to abolish personal freedom if given the chance, but look up any of the Tanaiste's speeches and you'll see what kind of card-carrying fascist he is. Plus I can't understand how the PDs, a less popular party than the Greens or Sinn Fein hold two key government positions, whilst polling as low as they do
bennocelt
30/04/2007, 11:28 PM
as much as i hate FF, have the opposition of FG and Lab done enough to have a chance in power, have they attacked FF throughout the last few years, i dont think they have, so i dont think they deserve a chance in power
OneRedArmy
30/04/2007, 11:41 PM
The PDs have such undue influence as they had what FF needed to form a Government.
A combination of their falling popularity (take a bow Mr. McDowell) & FF losing seats/FG needing a bigger coalition partner means they are unlikely to be anywhere near Government this time around.
I`m actually quite excited at the thoughts of Labour & Greens in Government, regardless of who the senior partner is.
LeviathanNI
01/05/2007, 1:38 AM
Watching the Dail on TV (as I occasionally do), I have to say, the only TD I jave noticed, that gives the Taoseach a hard time, is Joe Higgins, the Dublin West TD.. he always seems to hit a nerve, and it makes for good debate in the chamber :D
He is Socialist Party IIRC
The Shinners will not be the same down South as they are up here in Northern Ireland.. they can't be as the two countries are Governed differently... also, the Shinners have a hell of a lot more power in the NI Assembly, and with that, have to please the majority of both sides.
The Shinners will not be the same down South as they are up here in Northern Ireland.. they can't be as the two countries are Governed differently... also, the Shinners have a hell of a lot more power in the NI Assembly, and with that, have to please the majority of both sides.
:rolleyes: different countries:rolleyes: . As it happens, i'd hate to se sinn fein inpower here, i think their left wing policy's would be a disaster & their brand of justice is suspect.
Sinn Fein haven't been left wing in a long time. More's the pity...
2. The new breed of Shinners like Mary Lou and Eoin O Broinn (spelling?) come accross very much like the FF of old, dismiss talk of "socialist" politics and place themselves firmly in the centre, like FF without the planning corruption (yet).
That's because they are old FF. Mary Lou jumped ship from FF for example.
Also why do people have such a strong dislike for the PD's?Just curious to know....
Profit is their king, they don't show anything that they actually care about the people. Privatisation of anything that moves; cementing the two teir health service with state land; state of the health service in general; robbing money off the intellectually disabled; constant attempts to reduce workers rights; tax cuts for the rich at the expense of the poor; pride in a regressive tax system; pride in tax cuts while public services are a shambles; failure to tackle crime (last sting of a dying wasp?); "Welcome to Parlon Country"; So far in bed (literally) with IBEC that they're all about Governing for them rather than the people; Supposed changes that are better for competition and therefore the consumer that lead to increased prices and increased profits; Abuse of power to stop journalists investigating them; etc etc.
Not that I absolve FF of the above also - the likes of Cowen are just the "acceptable" face of the PD's in many ways. At least the PD's and the likes of Cullen, Brennan and McCreevy are open about Business being their only concern unlike FF who try and maintain the lie of being left of centre!
The PDs have such undue influence as they had what FF needed to form a Government
This is just FF spin. The simple fact is that FF are a right wing party too, and agree with these policies. However, they attempt to spin it on the ground that it's the tail wagging the dog. They're just lying to their own grass roots.
I'll be voting FF and I've no problem saying it. Labour and the Shinners will get votes off me too. No Blueshirts or PDs or crazy lefty/right wing nut will ever get my vote.
Bit of a contradiction there, If Shinners are not lunnie left i don't know what is. Nationalise the Banks. :eek:
Anyone else notice the posters from new party called "Berties Team" :rolleyes: :D
WeAreRovers
01/05/2007, 12:14 PM
Bit of a contradiction there, If Shinners are not lunnie left i don't know what is. Nationalise the Banks. :eek:
They don't believe that though, as myself Macy, Bohs Partisan etc have pointed out. They'd ditch that quick smart if in power.
Personally I'm not a huge fan of SF but the national question has always been important to me and SF (and FF) deserve a vote IMO for their work in the last 10 years.
KOH
Lionel Ritchie
01/05/2007, 12:30 PM
Yet there winning this poll.
Also why do people have such a strong dislike for the PD's?Just curious to know....
.
I vote Greens and Labour but have far more time for The Progressive Democrats than I would for Fine Gael and especially Fianna Fail. I've voted for them in the past and even had a very brief fling with the YPDs (long story:D )
They have an ideaology. I don't share their vision but I acknowledge and respect their viewpoint. Fianna Fails only vision is Fianna Fail in power. I consider them way more right wing than the PDs who are essentially a Liberal party who just happen to have a securocratic (thank you Shinners for my new word) leader.
If they have "fcuk the poor" economics -at least they say it to your face rather than behind your back or in the zipped up tent like FF.
They don't believe that though, as myself Macy, Bohs Partisan etc have pointed out. They'd ditch that quick smart if in power.
Personally I'm not a huge fan of SF but the national question has always been important to me and SF (and FF) deserve a vote IMO for their work in the last 10 years.
Fair enough point on the National issue but do you think SF being in government here would help or hinder NI negotiations? How could the government in the Republic keep perspective. Why don't SF have any detailed policies with costings? (its impossible to find on their website). Why is Gerry Adams on SF posters when he not standing for election in this jurisdiction?
IMO a vote for SF is a waste as no party will go into government with them. I also think FF election manifesto is dishonest as they cannot get a majority. FG & Labour may not be able to get the numbers but at least they have a chance so presenting a Manifesto for government. On a related issue why don't the smaller parties inform the electorate what policies are showstoppers for them in government - at least that way we would know what policies they will drop when in sight of power.
BohsPartisan
01/05/2007, 1:01 PM
IMO a vote for SF is a waste as no party will go into government with them.
FF will if needs be. Secondly Pete, They are in Government in Northern Ireland and if the DUP will go into government with them then so will "Bertie's Team".
Finally in my opinion a vote for a Party that is going into government is a waste as whatever rainbow we end up with the end result will be more or less the same. Why not vote for someone who is trying to build a real opposition.
beautifulrock
01/05/2007, 1:10 PM
Thats a good point on building a real opposition. Living in the UK it is very clear that a strong opposition would/could have to some extent controlled Tony. Interesting to hear people's view on the current government in Ireland. However, is there a realt alternative? Even looking at the poll it seems that FF's still carry sway with the voting public (actually that is a point, does everyone who has contributed to this thread actually vote). Will watch with interest over the next few weeks.
FG and Labour tried fighting elections as one and it has always back fired on them. They have to go in as seperate parties. For all Labour's anti bertie posturing they've gone into govt with him before and they'll do it again. I'm sure they'd prefer to go in with FG (and others) but mainly down to then having a bigger say IMO
The PDs are made of up people who are pure evil (McDowell) and peopl who's ego wanted them to be big names in asmall party rather than FF backbenchers (Parlon etc). Disgusting party. Harney was given the job she and the other right wingers wanted (Enterprise, Trade & Employment) and still managed to **** it up. She was a joke in Health. McDowell has consistently failed on his woefully misjudged crackdown on crime, he's made a total balls of immigration issues, and he's made an arse out of himself on more than a few occassion with his petty vendettas
I'll be voting labour. Greens, FG and maybe even FF will get tactical votes of me (harney's is my constituency and it bugs me)
FG and Labour tried fighting elections as one and it has always back fired on them. They have to go in as seperate parties. For all Labour's anti bertie posturing they've gone into govt with him before and they'll do it again. I'm sure they'd prefer to go in with FG (and others) but mainly down to then having a bigger say IMO
And they've never recovered from the last time! Only chance they'd have of pulling it off is if it were a deal breaker that Cullen, Roche, Brennan (for starters) were not Ministers of any description, never mind around the cabinet table.
holidaysong
01/05/2007, 1:57 PM
I will be voting Green - Labour - FG in that order. I think it is time for a change of government and also there is a much better chance for the introduction of same-sex partnerships under these three parties than under FF/PDs.
Lionel Ritchie
01/05/2007, 2:01 PM
I will be voting Green - Labour - FG in that order. I think it is time for a change of government and also there is a much better chance for the introduction of same-sex partnerships under these three parties than under FF/PDs.
I wouldn't know about that. There would be a huge socially right wing religious rump within Fine Gael or Fianna Fail that would oppose such partnerships on "moral" grounds.
You'd get scarce little of that from the PDs.
holidaysong
01/05/2007, 2:04 PM
I wouldn't know about that. There would be a huge socially right wing religious rump within Fine Gael or Fianna Fail that would oppose such partnerships on "moral" grounds.
You'd get scarce little of that from the PDs.
FG have said they have no problems with their introduction, as have the Greens and Labour.
As for the PDs it was McDowell who needlessly 'postponed' the Labour Bill proposing them only a month or two ago. This meant that it wouldn't be seen again during the life of the current government.
dahamsta
01/05/2007, 2:15 PM
I vote Greens and Labour but have far more time for The Progressive Democrats than I would for Fine Gael and especially Fianna Fail. I've voted for them in the past and even had a very brief fling with the YPDs (long story:D )
They have an ideaology. I don't share their vision but I acknowledge and respect their viewpoint. Fianna Fails only vision is Fianna Fail in power. I consider them way more right wing than the PDs who are essentially a Liberal party who just happen to have a securocratic (thank you Shinners for my new word) leader.
If they have "fcuk the poor" economics -at least they say it to your face rather than behind your back or in the zipped up tent like FF.So what you're saying is that if I believe that I should be entitled to oral sex from a different attractive woman every hour on the hour, and I believe it really strongly, you'll vote for me?
You realise that by that logic, if you lived in America you'd be voting for Fred Phelps and parading around with a sign saying God Hates Fags?
adam
I will be voting Green - Labour - FG in that order. I think it is time for a change of government and also there is a much better chance for the introduction of same-sex partnerships under these three parties than under FF/PDs.
I think I'll have FG-Green-Labour in that order on my ballot, and I agree that a FG led coalition will be more likely to introduce same sex equality than a FF led coalition
Interesting to see FF leading the way.
Tis just like the real thing, many the man has voted FF in the privacy of the ballot box when nobody is looking!
What are the biggest issues people consider when voting. For me it's the Irish language and the national question, after that house prices, first time buyer etc
Lionel Ritchie
01/05/2007, 2:45 PM
So what you're saying is that if I believe that I should be entitled to oral sex from a different attractive woman every hour on the hour, and I believe it really strongly, you'll vote for me?
adam
Nope. I'm saying I acknowledge they have an ideaology ...and you have yours. I don't think I committed to voting for either. Though do a drop a pamphlet through the letter box if you're passing.
You realise that by that logic, if you lived in America you'd be voting for Fred Phelps and parading around with a sign saying God Hates Fags?
adam
That's a hell of a conclusion to arrive at. :confused: ...and how you got there I'm sure I don't know.
OneRedArmy
01/05/2007, 2:49 PM
Interesting to see FF leading the way.
Tis just like the real thing, many the man has voted FF in the privacy of the ballot box when nobody is looking!
What are the biggest issues people consider when voting. For me it's the Irish language and the national question, after that house prices, first time buyer etcFunny enough its none of the above for me.
The national question, rightly or wrongly, disappeared with Articles 2 and 3.
Its health, sustainable job creation and retention, law and order and infrastructure and the environment for me.
Oh and reduction in cronyism and general "scratch my back I'll scratch yours, lets all meet up in the tent in Ballybrit"-type politics.
dahamsta
01/05/2007, 2:50 PM
Nope. I'm saying I acknowledge they have an ideaology ...and you have yours. I don't think I committed to voting for either. Though do a drop a pamphlet through the letter box if you're passing.Nah, I'll be running in the People's Republic of Cork, we don't have free and fair elections. :)
That's a hell of a conclusion to arrive at. :confused: ...and how you got there I'm sure I don't know.I don't know how you can't. You said that you admire the PDs because they have an ideology. Nazis have an ideology, do you admire them?
adam
osarusan
01/05/2007, 3:00 PM
I don't know how you can't. You said that you admire the PDs because they have an ideology. Nazis have an ideology, do you admire them?
adam
He said he acknowledged that they had a viewpoint, and respected that point. He didnt say he admired them.
His point (I think) is that while Fianna Fail have no other motive than keeping power for themselves, other parties, while those ideology may be suspect, at least have an ideology, and that deserves respect.
He's not saying he will vote for anybody just because they have an ideology and others don't. By your logic, Phelps is the only person in the USA with an ideology, which I disagree with.
BohsPartisan
01/05/2007, 3:04 PM
Just for the record as The Socialist Party won't have a candidate in the constiuency I live in, I'll probably give my vote to The Workers' Party. Can't see anyone else on the ballot paper I'd even want to be seen in the same building as. There might be some independants worth giving a preference to.
By the way, I think FF do have an Ideology, they're just very good at hiding it from the electorate.
OneRedArmy
01/05/2007, 3:06 PM
Just for the record as The Socialist Party won't have a candidate in the constiuency I live in, I'll probably give my vote to The Workers' Party. Can't see anyone else on the ballot paper I'd even want to be seen in the same building as. There might be some independants worth giving a preferance too.
Greens surely the least objectionable of the big parties?
Lionel Ritchie
01/05/2007, 3:08 PM
Nah, I'll be running in the People's Republic of Cork, we don't have free and fair elections. :)
I don't know how you can't. You said that you admire the PDs because they have an ideology. Nazis have an ideology, do you admire them?
adam
Ah I was waiting for either the nazis or communists to be brought up and was going to deal extremist comparisons in the previous post but frankly I'm trying to do an actual job while nipping in and out of here too.
I brought up the PDs Ideology -which is actually composed of fairly mainstream political and economic traditions -in juxtaposition to, in particular, Fianna Fail who have no particular ideology at all beyond an all consuming desire to be in power and a presumption on a right to be in office.
BohsPartisan
01/05/2007, 3:11 PM
Greens surely the least objectionable of the big parties?
Anyone who hasn't ruled out coalition with FF or FG is objectionable to me.
OneRedArmy
01/05/2007, 3:15 PM
Anyone who hasn't ruled out coalition with FF or FG is objectionable to me.Fair enough!
Surely there is an argument that they are better off influencing from the inside rather than sniping from the opposition?
finlma
01/05/2007, 3:28 PM
What are the biggest issues people consider when voting. For me it's the Irish language and the national question, after that house prices, first time buyer etc
As a teacher the biggest issue for me is classroom size. We're one of the richest countries in Europe and half the biggest student/teacher ratio. The kids deserve better and my job could be easier.
A FF candidate (stand up Mr. Crowe) called to my door and I mentioned class size. He answered by telling me there were 45 in his class and it did him no harm. I told the whole of my school and many others and he has lost plenty of votes. Moron.
BohsPartisan
01/05/2007, 3:51 PM
Fair enough!
Surely there is an argument that they are better off influencing from the inside rather than sniping from the opposition?
I suppose you could make that arguement but experience shows that the smaller party always capitulates to the larger. If Labour had stuck to their principles years ago and gave up the practice of going into coalition they could be a formiddable force now and be able to present themselves as the alternative the country is looking for. As it is they are merely seen as Fine Gael Lite.
WeAreRovers
01/05/2007, 4:02 PM
I suppose you could make that arguement but experience shows that the smaller party always capitulates to the larger. If Labour had stuck to their principles years ago and gave up the practice of going into coalition they could be a formiddable force now and be able to present themselves as the alternative the country is looking for. As it is they are merely seen as Fine Gael Lite.
Again I agree with the Bohs-supporting left wing loon. :eek:
Labour could have toppled FG from 2nd position if they'd shown the courage of their convictions at anytime over the last decade. But, as we all know, they're a bunch of toadying wimps.
KOH
BohsPartisan
01/05/2007, 4:08 PM
Again I agree with the Bohs-supporting left wing loon. :eek:
Stop it, you're scaring me! ;)
GavinZac
01/05/2007, 4:52 PM
What are the biggest issues people consider when voting. For me it's the Irish language
oh, to not have a worry beyond my pastimes.
Lionel Ritchie
01/05/2007, 4:56 PM
As a teacher the biggest issue for me is classroom size. We're one of the richest countries in Europe and half the biggest student/teacher ratio. The kids deserve better and my job could be easier.
A FF candidate (stand up Mr. Crowe) called to my door and I mentioned class size. He answered by telling me there were 45 in his class and it did him no harm. I told the whole of my school and many others and he has lost plenty of votes. Moron.
I'm in teacher training. Bertie recently promised there's be 2000 extra teachers trained ...note he didn't say 2000 extra teaching jobs. So the half truth soundbite that he trots out as a move to somehow address the teacher pupil ratio problem gets swallowed by some as a commitment to improving the situation when in fact these kids are being trained for the boat or to go to Bahrain and work there tax free.
IMO a good opposition is not possible in this country. Just compare the House of Commons Question Time with the Dail. In the Dail questions are submitted in advance, civil servants prepare response & Minister reads the script. AFAIK you are not allowed to ask question off topic (a bit like here ;) ) whereas in the House of Commons seems anyone can ask question & the PM has to try to answer.
:(
dahamsta
01/05/2007, 6:01 PM
D'ya know what I thought was amazing? I was listening to the radio there the other day and wasn't Mary Hanafin announcing that something like nine new schools would be coming in September? Such a coincidence it happens just as the election's being announced!
And I read in the paper that shortly we'll have /90/ in the Garda Reserve. A whole 90 like!
Vote Fianna Failure / Progressive Dummycrat, you know it mocks sense.
adam
What do the morons voting for Fianna Fail think of Bertie being caught accepting money off businessmen again? Jesus just reading about how the money was loaned to Cecila, then used on a house Bertie was renting before he bought it makes my blood boil. Anyone who doesn't look at that situation and see a crook is a downright idiot in my book, I'm sorry if some find that offensive, but frankly I find your lack of sense offensive to my lingering thread of national pride ;)
D'ya know what I thought was amazing? I was listening to the radio there the other day and wasn't Mary Hanafin announcing that something like nine new schools would be coming in September? Such a coincidence it happens just as the election's being announced!
Does anyone fall for that these days?
IMO FF/PD can only be judged on their record over the last 10 years. If they haven't done it by now never will so promises mean nothing. If you happy with last 10 years then vote for them. The opposition is a little different as you have to see if agree with promises & think they will deliver.
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