Barry Maguire

[geysir]

Wouldn't Maguire have had to go through this process the once already in switching from the FAI to the Dutch association after, in effect, temporarily declaring for us to play in an under-15 friendly? Unless under-15 friendly games aren't sanctioned by FIFA and he didn't need to officially register with the FAI or whatever in the first place?
AFAIA, this is the case, he had not registered with us. He would not need to write a letter to FIFA to change assoc in order to be eligible for Holland.

[DannyInvincible]

AFAIA, this is the case, he had not registered with us. He would not need to write a letter to FIFA to change assoc in order to be eligible for Holland.

What age level would require registering with us, do you know? Or maybe it's just to play in anything other than a friendly? I've since been informed of James Wallace and Ger Kinsella, both of Everton, who played at under-16 level for Ireland despite not having the requisite connections to Ireland. Presumably they wouldn't have registered with the FAI either.

[Predator]

What age level would require registering with us, do you know? Or maybe it's just to play in anything other than a friendly? I've since been informed of James Wallace and Ger Kinsella, both of Everton, who played at under-16 level for Ireland despite not having the requisite connections to Ireland. Presumably they wouldn't have registered with the FAI either.Kinsella and Wallace both scored for us against the IFA U16 (http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2014&catid=80:archive&Itemid=355), as did their former Everton teammate, Karl Sheppard (now of Galway United). I'm not exactly sure what the story is with Kinsella and Wallace, but I was led to believe that they were not eligible. I think it may have been a case of both of them having great-grandparents born in Ireland or something along those lines. Wallace has since played for England's U19s.

EDIT: It was here that I learned of their ineligibility: http://foot.ie/threads/113518-James-Wallace?p=1120792&viewfull=1#post1120792

[geysir]

What age level would require registering with us, do you know? Or maybe it's just to play in anything other than a friendly? I've since been informed of James Wallace and Ger Kinsella, both of Everton, who played at under-16 level for Ireland despite not having the requisite connections to Ireland. Presumably they wouldn't have registered with the FAI either.
It does appear that informal underage friendlies can be organised between associations.
At a rough but reasonable guess, it would have to be a competitive underage game (not a friendly), for a young player to be regarded as declared for an association. Also, I doubt if there is an official declaration policy for young players selected to play for an underage competitve game. Competitive Qualifiers would fall under UEFA juridstiction/supervision - referees appointed etc - official UEFA protocols would have to be followed. One of those would be the list of players in the match squad and their passports be presented to the match officials before the game. That list would be forwarded to UEFA. In that way there is a full record of names/birthdates/passport nrs. of players who were in the match day squad. Then it would be regarded that the player has declared himself for an association. Once a paper trail exists, then the player is regarded as declared for an association.
That's how I imagine it happens.

[Charlie Darwin]

Decent strike for his goal (the last one):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NOsjB1ckhY

[TrapAPony]

He wants to play for us :

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/dutch-ace-maguire-is-keen-to-go-green-2329641.html


DUTCH-BORN starlet Barry Maguire, the man who helped knock Celtic out of Europe last month, has said he's willing to answer Ireland's call and play for the Republic -- if the FAI can be bothered to get him on the phone.

Maguire plays for Dutch top-flight side Utrecht and has been playing first-team football for five seasons even though he's only 20, but he has a chequered career at international level.

The midfielder -- whose father, Martin, is from Dublin -- appeared for Ireland at U15 level but then opted to play for his native Holland, and has even lined out for the Dutch against Ireland for an underage international in Dublin.

A scorer for Utrecht against Celtic a few weeks ago, Maguire came close to a return to the Irish fold last year when he was named in an U21 squad by the Republic but he backed off and stayed with Holland, winning U19 and U20 caps.

But today Maguire has told the Herald that he's keen to wear the green shirt again, and as soon as possible.

"If Ireland rang me in the morning and asked me to come and play for them, I would say yes without a thought. I would like to play for the Irish team again but I have no contact at all from them," Maguire said.

"It's a while since I played for Ireland at any level, five years now I think, but I have said all along that I have strong connections with Ireland, through my dad, and Holland, as I was born there, but the connection with Ireland was always strong for me and now I'd like to play for Ireland.

"I am surprised that the FAI have not been in contact with me, especially as Wim Koevermans, who is Dutch, works with the FAI now.

"When I met the FAI last year I said that I was open to playing for Ireland or Holland. I did not rule out the idea of playing for Ireland again, I thought they would have tried to make contact with me but I have heard nothing in months. I can't just turn up and play for Ireland. I have to be named in their squad but hope they do that. I still watch the Irish team, I saw the game against Armenia last week and I'd love to see them qualify for the finals.

"And if they do call me, I'd be very happy to play for them again," added Maguire, who created headlines around this part of the world when he scored for Utrecht in their 4-0 win over Celtic last month which knocked the Bhoys out of Europe and sent Utrecht into the group stages of the Europa League where they face clubs like Liverpool and Napoli.

Born and bred in Holland, Maguire first came on the FAI's radar when his dad contacted the FAI and alerted them to Barry's availability, and he was named in the Republic's squad for an U16 game against Northern Ireland in April 2005.

Maguire played in that game but only as sub for the last 15 minutes, and his family later expressed their disappointment at the lack of game time given to the lad, given that he'd travelled so far to make his debut for Ireland, and that school and other duties would make it more difficult for the Dutch-born youngster to get involved with Ireland compared to home-based players.

That point is backed up by the fact that, of the 11 who started ahead of Maguire that day, not one has progressed to the senior Irish squad, only one (Notts County man Brendan Moloney) is currently involved at U21 level and most are not even playing senior football.

The case for Ireland pursuing Maguire became more relevant when he made his debut for second division side Den Bosch when he was just 16, but the waters at international level were muddied as Maguire opted to play for the Dutch -- including an U19 game against Ireland in Richmond Park in 2007 -- and a lack of communication between the FAI, Maguire and the player's family didn't help matters, the Maguires feeling that Barry had been snubbed with that short sub appearance in 2005 and again by a lack of contact.

Last year it was suggested that he was coming back to the fold when Ireland and Don Givens named him in an U21 squad for a game against Germany, but Maguire pulled out. "I was told at the time that, under FIFA rules, if I had played for Ireland in that game I could not then switch to Holland and I had not yet made up my mind fully. I wanted to be sure in what I was doing so I said I wanted to wait a bit longer before tying myself to Ireland," he says. "I met Wim Koevermans and (Givens) and told them that I was still open to playing for Ireland but I heard nothing more from Ireland."

The 20-year-old has been a key figure for Utrecht this season, playing in eight of their 10 games including five appearances (and one goal) in the Europa League.

"There was a good reaction to the game against Celtic, especially back in Ireland as a lot of my relatives were watching the game," he says. "I hope to play against Napoli next week and Liverpool at the end of the month, and I'd like to play for Ireland too."

[DannyInvincible]

Is he good enough to make the squad? He should be called into the under-21s at least. If I'm not mistaken, he'd be tied to us once he switches association. I'm assuming he's aware of this.

On that, because I'm not wholly certain, is it the formalised declaration or request to play for another association that counts as "switching" under FIFA's rules or is it the playing in a competitive game at any level for the new association? I take it to be the former from my reading of article 18, but would appreciate confirmation.

[SkStu]

interesting comments. I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he was truly waiting until his mind was fully made up.

Great news. Seems a very good prospect.

[Sullivinho]

Last year it was suggested that he was coming back to the fold when Ireland and Don Givens named him in an U21 squad for a game against Germany, but Maguire pulled out. "I was told at the time that, under FIFA rules, if I had played for Ireland in that game I could not then switch to Holland and I had not yet made up my mind fully.
"I am surprised that the FAI have not been in contact with me."

He's 'surprised'? Really?


"If Ireland rang me in the morning and asked me to come and play for them, I would say yes without a thought."

I'm delighted to hear he's fully made up his mind but considering how his last call-up panned out, maybe it's Barry rather than Ireland who should be picking up the phone.

[DannyInvincible]

interesting comments. I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he was truly waiting until his mind was fully made up.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that he was nowhere near the Dutch squad now. Not sure how accurate that reflection of his current level of ability is, but possibly it helped him make up his mind and give up on any hopes of a future with Holland. To be cynical, of course. ;)

In saying that, I wouldn't necessarily hold it against the guy. Possessing dual nationality is obviously going to create a dilemma for any player. If he'd accepted the last call-up from us, he would have had to commit to us for good, which might have been something he wasn't prepared to do just then for whatever reasons. He is Dutch-born after all, but, at the same time, is still an automatic Irish citizen through his father and was willing enough to come over and play for us at the age of 15. If he's willing to do the same now, I'll have no problem with it and would strongly be in favour of it if he can add to the team in some way.

[Sullivinho]

In saying that, I wouldn't necessarily hold it against the guy. Possessing dual nationality is obviously going to create a dilemma for any player.

Absolutely. I wouldn't hold it against the guy at all. Especially at that age.

However, having been previously recognised with a call-up and declining on the basis that he had yet to make up his mind...surely the onus is now on him to inform the FAI/Ireland of his (apparent) decision.

[rebelmusic]

Well even that article is him declaring to the FAI that he's available. As long as they hear about it!!

But yeah agreed, he shouldn't have an issue making one simple phonecall to the FAI HQ simply to declare for Ireland - which he pretty much is doing in that article

[DannyInvincible]

However, having been previously recognised with a call-up and declining on the basis that he had yet to make up his mind...surely the onus is now on him to inform the FAI/Ireland of his (apparent) decision.

No disagreement there really, although what he's saying in the article is pretty much an invitation for the FAI get in contact. If the FAI were now to refuse to get in contact over something so petty as who should ring who first, in spite of being fully knowledgeable of Maguire's expressed intentions, I'd be extremely disappointed. Unless, of course, the FAI have a gentlemen's agreement in place with the KNVB. ;)

[seanfhear]

Give the lad a go in the under 21's.

He may add the dutch eqivalent of "Je ne sais quoi ? (excuse my French) to Irish football.

[kev mcq]

interesting comments. I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he was truly waiting until his mind was fully made up.

Great news. Seems a very good prospect.

Does he?

[SkStu]

surely anyone playing first team football in a professional league at 16/17 years old has to be considered a good prospect, no?


plus he scored against the mighty Bhoys... ;)

[Nagger]

Maguire was a first team regular at 17 for Den Bosch, he got man of the match on his debut. Den Bosch is same club van Nistelrooij made his professional debut for. He's a good prospect allright. Just hope he keeps developing himself at Utrecht.

I'm not suprised he wants to play for Ireland now...the KNVB havent included him in any of there under age squads lately

[Paddy Garcia]

Suggest someone here lets the FAI know, historically they are well behind the curve & will need a prompt.

Really bad form if we don't respond to this opportunity.

[Chicago AOH]

I think the person you need to contact at the FAI is GCostello@fai.ie... but I'm sure they are well on top of this! :)

[IsMiseSean]

Is he good enough to make the squad?

Surely he is a better option than Paul Green...

[musicinmouth]

I just sent the link to Wim Koevermans. Very happy to hear that Barry is eager to play for us. I think he could be a useful addition to the squad.

[Charlie Darwin]

Is he good enough to make the squad? He should be called into the under-21s at least. If I'm not mistaken, he'd be tied to us once he switches association. I'm assuming he's aware of this.

On that, because I'm not wholly certain, is it the formalised declaration or request to play for another association that counts as "switching" under FIFA's rules or is it the playing in a competitive game at any level for the new association? I take it to be the former from my reading of article 18, but would appreciate confirmation.
As far as I know, you have to actually play a game, but unlike the first switch I think friendlies are enough tie the player. Bobby Zamora recently did the switch from England to Trinidad (couldn't play due to injury) and then finally made his England debut against, I think, Hungary. There are a handful of other instances.

[DannyInvincible]

Surely he is a better option than Paul Green...

Yeah, if you think about it, Paul Green is playing at mid-table Championship level whilst Maguire will be lining out in the Europa League for Utrecht this season after dumping Celtic out in the qualifiers 4-2 on aggregate; Maguire even scoring an exceptionally well-struck goal along the way.

I caught a game between Ajax and Den Haag when I was in Amsterdam just under two years ago and Den Haag were truly abysmal, but by and large, the Eredivisie isn't the worst league in Europe. Utrecht's standard falls somewhere between the two. Admittedly, the top half is obviously were its strength lies and Utrecht finished 7th out of 18 last season, behind champions Twente, Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord, AK and Heracles. Den Haag, for example, finished in 15th. I suppose, if anything, this helps gauge the guy's level. There's no doubt it's a much stronger league overall than the SPL and we've had no qualms with calling up O'Dea and McGeady whilst at Celtic or even Stokes whilst at Hibs.

Plus, didn't we regularly call up David Connolly when he was languishing with what was pretty much Feyenoord's 'B' team, Excelsior, in the Eerste Divisie (the second tier of the Dutch football system) between 1999 and 2001. In fact, Connolly was playing in a World Cup a year after leaving them and joining Wimbledon. All in all, we should be looking to include Maguire in our next under-21 squad at the least so we can give him a proper look.

[Scooby Doo]

I just sent the link to Wim Koevermans. Very happy to hear that Barry is eager to play for us. I think he could be a useful addition to the squad.
Thanks MIM, that sort of initiative actually might get us somewhere with this situation. Wouldn't confidently rely on FAI to deal with this unprompted.

[ifk101]

He's already declined an offer to play for the U21s so I think it's a bit rich of him expecting the FAI would keep contact when the ball was clearly in his court. He might say that he wants to play for us now, but it's obvious that that choice has been made for him as Holland are no longer interested. I wouldn't blame the FAI if they're not overly pushed about following up (again) on Maguire's come and get me hints. After all we have a number of very promising players coming through in his position. He'd be an addition to the U21 squad, nothing more than that.

[dr_peepee]

Didn't Tardelli say something in an interview recently about going to watch a player in Holland??? Had to be Maguire he was reffering to...

[tetsujin1979]

Didn't Tardelli say something in an interview recently about going to watch a player in Holland??? Had to be Maguire he was reffering to...
it's mentioned on page 10 of the thread

According to some Dutch friends of mine (and they know their football), Maguire won't get within an asses roar of the Dutch national team. One of them is an Utrecht fan and he seemed quite nonplussed when I mentioned Maguire.
Also, in an interview in the last week or two in The Star, I remember reading a quote from Tardelli where he said he was going to watch a player in Holland. I'll post quote if I can dig it out.
Cant think of anybody other than Maguire that this could be.

[Razors left peg]

Cant help but thinking that if the lad was english and had previously turned down a call up to the Irish squad then the reaction to him on here would be alot more negative.

[Stuttgart88]

...but he'd be a hero if he was from NI.

[geysir]

But if he was Derry, he would be too big for his boots.

[carloz]

http://greenscene.me/2010/09/spotlight-barry-maguire/

Just a small bit of detail about Maguires story for those that care

[Colbert Report]

Great article, he basically says that he'd love to play for Ireland but the FAI haven't been in contact. Surely he'd be a better option, long-term anyway, than Paul Green?

[Stuttgart88]

The long term as far as I'm concerned is 8th & 12th October 2010.

[Mr A]

How can he say the FAI have not been in touch when also said he refused a call up? :confused:

[geysir]

He should have jumped when first invited. He had not an earthly chance of doing any better.
Waiting for Trap to call you back from a self imposed exile, can be a lonely place.

The Green Scene article is based on an interview that the Herald printed 2 weeks ago.

Last year it was suggested that he was coming back to the fold when Ireland and Don Givens named him in an U21 squad for a game against Germany, but Maguire pulled out. "I was told at the time that, under FIFA rules, if I had played for Ireland in that game I could not then switch to Holland and I had not yet made up my mind fully. I wanted to be sure in what I was doing so I said I wanted to wait a bit longer before tying myself to Ireland," he says. "I met Wim Koevermans and (Givens) and told them that I was still open to playing for Ireland but I heard nothing more from Ireland."

[AlaskaFox]

He should have jumped when first invited. He had not an earthly chance of doing any better.
Waiting for Trap to call you back from a self imposed exile, can be a lonely place.

The Green Scene article is based on an interview that the Herald printed 2 weeks ago.

Last year it was suggested that he was coming back to the fold when Ireland and Don Givens named him in an U21 squad for a game against Germany, but Maguire pulled out. "I was told at the time that, under FIFA rules, if I had played for Ireland in that game I could not then switch to Holland and I had not yet made up my mind fully. I wanted to be sure in what I was doing so I said I wanted to wait a bit longer before tying myself to Ireland," he says. "I met Wim Koevermans and (Givens) and told them that I was still open to playing for Ireland but I heard nothing more from Ireland."

That's fair enough. You can see why he didn't want to tie himself to one thing. He'll never get a call-up for the Netherlands though, so we're obviously a better choice.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't really understand what he was expecting to happen. He said he wanted time to mull over his options and the FAI gave it to him - they probably didn't contact him after that because they didn't want to ruin their chances by making him feel pestered. As far as I know, Paul Green just sent a letter to FAI HQ expressing his wish to be considered for selection. Maguire seems intelligent enough and I'm sure he's capable of writing a letter himself. Perhaps postage stamps are inhibitively expensive in the Netherlands.

[geysir]

Post offices in Holland (like most places) are a vanishing species. You can never find one when you finally remember that you have something to post.

Considering that the FAI have been inviting young lads to come to the underage squads for yonks, I´d imagine they do that duty with reasonable competence. McCaffrey came under some scrutiny here for his supposed lack of activity re Shane Duffy, but it turned out that McCaffrey said it as it was, he had the situation well sussed and there was nothing more for him to do.
Young Barry has missed his turn. This was entirely his choice. It is not up to the FAI to badger a young lad who has made that choice to wait. I would be astounded if McCaffrey rang Shane Duffy's dad to find out the latest re Shane's reported indecisiveness. Indeed Maguire's account supports the notion that FAI do not badger kids after they decline an invitation.
Barry will have to earn his way into the reckoning (Tardelli?) to be considered good enough for a call up. That is, if he has finally sent a signed letter to the FAI, stating clearly that he has now fully decided to make himself available for selection.

[AlaskaFox]

Is stating it in the media not as good as writing a letter? Writing a letter seems a bit like begging to me.

[osarusan]

Is stating it in the media not as good as writing a letter? Writing a letter seems a bit like begging to me.
Didn't Stephen Ireland try that one? That he'd apologised in general, and it was published and broadcast in the media, so he felt he'd made the necessary apology and put the ball back in the FAI court?

[Charlie Darwin]

Is stating it in the media not as good as writing a letter? Writing a letter seems a bit like begging to me.
When was the interview, 2 weeks ago? The interview was complaining about nobody contacting him when the responsibility was his to make first contact.

[geysir]

Stating it in the media has little real value compared to a personal request to be considered for selection, sent to the FAI. Certainly that protocol should apply to a player who has already declined an offer to join the squad, the next step should be theirs to take. The FAI are exposed enough when a player pulls out of a squad in such public circumstances once, but should it to happen twice? A letter is the FAI's security in the face of scrutiny from other associations with malevolent intent to blackguard them :)
Same if, O'Hara the Portsmouth midfielder - is all of a sudden reported in the media as being open to declare for Ireland, it is meaningless unless it is backed up by action, one simple action is write to the FAI.
AFAIC, Barry has absolutely no grounds for even the tiniest gripe with the FAI. He should make sure he has satisfied the required protocol for making himself available for selection, then the rest is up to him and Trap's man on the spot, Tardelli.

[Predator]

All this talk of writing and sending letters. A phonecall would suffice.

Here you go, Barry: +353 1 8999 500

[Colbert Report]

I just called, pretended to be Barry McGuire, they said they'd have somone phone me back.

[geysir]

And that goes to absolutely prove beyond doubt, that a phone call will and should not suffice :)

[seanfhear]

I just called, pretended to be Barry McGuire, they said they'd have somone phone me back.
I am Barry Maguire. (Spartacus and all that !)

[Colbert Report]

Just got off the phone with some Dutch fella who claimed to be employed by the FAI. I had no idea what he was on about.

[Predator]

I am Barry Maguire. (Spartacus and all that !)I am Barry Maguire's (unofficial) agent.

[IsMiseSean]

He just came off the bench against Liverpool with 20mins to go. Hopefully he does well.

[Charlie Darwin]

Is he playing up front? I thought he was a left-full for some reason.