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BrayUnknowns
12/12/2006, 8:43 AM
Can anyone tell me how UCD and Bray outscored us in the off field criteria. I'd love to see a breakdown of the points. Unless our presentation team ****ed up royaly during the presentation or something is amiss here.
Our situation (on the pitch)
League - 6th, 5th, 8th, 12th (Premier)
Cup Runners up in 2004
Off the pitch: New 1700 seater stand, new press facilities, toilets, offices, turnstiles, 2 all weather pitches, link up with WIT with the scholarship schemes. Link up with local junior and schoolboy leagues. These plans are not pie in the sky, they are written down on paper. The plans are on view in Waterford City Council offices.
Delaney told Club officials and fans including myself that we were safe. that would explain why the Managemnet Committee wrote this season off. However it seems that Galway and Bray made up ground on us for off pitch criteria. How is that and also Des Cahill stated on Radio 1 that we scored more points overall than Galway???
Dumbfounded.
Was there not a stage over the past 2 or 3 seasons, cant remember, that Waterford could not afford to pay there players ? meaning players left etc ?
Off the Pitch - We have already installed a new 1000 seated covered stand, plans and planning premission already granted for more work, new press facilities, new media hut, new hospitality hut, new toilets and new turnstiles all already built in the last year, Official link up with one of dublin's most successful schoolboy clubs - Joeys, massive sponsorship deal about to be signed off. They are not written on paper, they are already done. Serveral other plans in place to upgrange the Carlisle aswell.
Bray Wanderers
On The Field: 333. Off The Field: 351. Total: 684 (Premier Div)
Waterford
On The Field: 337. Off The Field: 295. Total: 632 (First Div)
On the field you were 3 points ahead of us, probably equavilient to a draw or a win, off the field your not even in the same division as us. If Waterford thought they were safe with off the field then worse gobshi*es them. The Carlise is by no means the best or nicest ground the league but the RSC is just shocking - 1 stand and the worst pitch in the premier last season is all it consists of.
Calcio Jack
12/12/2006, 8:46 AM
A question for UCD supporters; UCD are well run and financially viable etc, now this may of been answered here before but could one of you explain how your finances operate. Do you receive any subsidies etc.Not trying to raise the old chestnut of UCD are run on taxpayers money etc...perhaps you are...but personally I've no issue with that as despite what a lot o people say her I think UCD do bring something to the League ie an opportunity for youngsters to get an education and play at a high level, rather than have them shipped of to UK clubs at 16 and come back a few years later.... sorry to be so long winded but as I say just curious.... finally despite all your scholarships etc bet Trinity beat you in this seasons David Faiers memorial match (ie the colours game) !!
cavan_fan
12/12/2006, 8:57 AM
Whole thing seems a bit of a waste of time if the purpose was a radical overhaul of the league. In the end all the results and off field investigations have meant that Galway go up instead of Dundalk. It's obviously upsetting for Dundalk fans and great for Galway fans but is hardly going to make a huge change to the league.
Preumably the FAI felt that they wanted good long term prospects not just short term teams. But either they've measured it wrong or the 2 are the same thing. (I think theyve measured it worng, if you look at the scores mentioned above there aseems less variance in Off the Field than On the Field, which means that On Field will win out, not sure if that was their aim)
OneRedArmy
12/12/2006, 9:07 AM
Also interesting, albeit totally unsurprising to note that the "Champions" failed so miserably in the off-the-field scoring.
To me that shows the process works! (although it doesn't exactly bode well for the future).
To Pineapple Stu, I'm fully behind "proper" implementation of Licensing (particularly given Derry were made a laughing stock in the 1st year by taking it seriously to the detriment of on-field spending) but I'm don't agree with spreading money around in an equal manner. That just perpetuates the current situation and offers no real incentive for growth. I also believe some way has to be found to weed the Ollie Byrne's out of football and giving poorly run clubs isn't the way forward.
Given UCD's high scoring in off-the-field criteria I'm surprised you aren't arguing for it to be based on this?:D
Whole thing seems a bit of a waste of time if the purpose was a radical overhaul of the league. In the end all the results and off field investigations have meant that Galway go up instead of Dundalk. It's obviously upsetting for Dundalk fans and great for Galway fans but is hardly going to make a huge change to the league.
Particularly as Dundalk have acheived a premier license. How funny would it be if Galway are relegated next season and Dundalk promoted. Nothing to stop them coming up then...
cavan_fan
12/12/2006, 9:09 AM
Particularly as Dundalk have acheived a premier license. How funny would it be if Galway are relegated next season and Dundalk promoted. Nothing to stop them coming up then...
Anyone know how much this Eircom League Idol cost?
Interesting to note that despite all the pontificating from Rovers fans that Dundalk were a mess, that Dundalk actually scored higher in off the field points than Rovers did. Its only their playing record over the past 4 years that cost them.
I'm sure that'll console them.
Magicme
12/12/2006, 9:15 AM
But the fact is that Dundalk DID sign up to this league and knew exactly what thay were signing up for, and now when they know they didnt get in they start a debacle. The fact is if i was supporting Kilkenny or Monaghan (no disrespect to either club) and we were consigned to the First Division again i would know its because we signed to the agreement and have only ourselves to blame. It dosnt matter who i support my argument would be the same
We didnt sign up to it but we accepted the majority rule and worked our butts off to be rated highly in the off the field criteria. Unfortunately, our last 5 years on the pitch brought our overall score down considerably, but we are not crying or upset about it. We accept that our club are in a transition stage where the focus on the pitch will be on local based talent who have been coming up the ranks while off the pitch we are becoming much more professional in the running of the club, the facilities we provide and our big aim for next year is to bring the crowds in. We know it will be a struggle but we have broad backs.
As for Dundalk moaning, I appreciate they are ****ed off at not getting in but by screaming and crying at Galway for doing what was requested by the IAG/FAI in getting their club to perform on and off the pitch, they are showing themselves and the league up. I hope Gill is fined for his outbursts as any other team would be.
passerrby
12/12/2006, 9:15 AM
have to feel sorry for both dundlak and waterford fans but not for the clubs as they when into this process with there eyes wide open best of luck to galway and the rovers have a good year, i still think the process is deeply flawed and just one further point if waterford win the first div and galway were to come bottom of the first would we be back to square one and would genisis have been a waste of time
It really can't have been a shock that Dundalk didn't make it - poor on field performance, and a last gasp effort to try and sort out the off the field criteria. Waterford should've known more than most not to believe a word out of Delaney's mouth, and it's hard to have sympathy for a club that appeared to treat this season on the pitch with disdain. However, if both clubs are genuinely getting their houses in order off the field, it'll only be good for them in the long run.
I really don't see the continued vitriol against UCD. It's clear that they were going to score well off the field if the criteria were properly enforced on tangible areas. Where they were in danger was if too much rating was given to intangibles like marketability - thank god there wasn't some hatchet job on nonsense like that. If people think UCD are there by default because other clubs are so poorly run, then the blame lies totally with the other clubs for being crap and the failure of the FAI to properly implement licensing that would force clubs to get their house in order. As with people criticising the inclusion of Bray, well it's clear that they can only be by judging based on Infrastructure which would only be part of the off field stuff, and even then the Carlisle itself isn't that bad - can hardly deduct points for on shore winds :rolleyes:
bohs til i die
12/12/2006, 9:56 AM
Just a point to all those Derry fans saying "the clubs signed up to this process" [apologies if this point is already made but I havent seen it].
What other option did clubs have but to sign up for this? Its not as if they had an alternative.
Trainee
12/12/2006, 10:07 AM
I dont know is how people think this process turned out to be a farce
the only way this whole process could have turned into a farce if UCD didnt get 1 of the 12 places
Galway Utd got high marks in off the field as the took the whole process serious from day 1 and lots of hard work from the board
looks to me waterford assumed they were safe and didnt take the process serious and thats why they lost out
As for Dundalk how they thought they should is beyound me, they should be focusing on next season 50K on offer for first divison rather than going on a pointless rant
why no backup plan if they didnt get promoted
Kingdom
12/12/2006, 10:15 AM
The move to the Bowl certainly helps, also administratively and financially I would say UCD are very well run. This would compensate for getting hammered on the marketability side.
This is what I cannot understand. They are the biggest college in the country, in an area where there is little or no soccer, they have bucketloads of marketability. The fact that games are on a Fri night would probably be a big hit as some support would be from the country, would playing games on a Thurs night at home help? Wrong thread I know sorry!
OneRedArmy
12/12/2006, 10:21 AM
Just a point to all those Derry fans saying "the clubs signed up to this process" [apologies if this point is already made but I havent seen it].
What other option did clubs have but to sign up for this? Its not as if they had an alternative.How about not signing up to it as an option?
People on here have a tendency to refer to the EL (now dead) as some kind of omipotent amorphous body when in fact it was the clubs own representative body.
The clubs could have come up with their own rival plan and rejected the FAI takeover, but unsurprisingly the self-interest and inability to manage the proverbial ****-up in a brewery that has characterised Irish club football administration prevailed and they FAI were the only show in town.
bohs til i die
12/12/2006, 10:24 AM
How about not signing up to it as an option?
People on here have a tendency to refer to the EL (now dead) as some kind of omipotent amorphous body when in fact it was the clubs own representative body.
The clubs could have come up with their own rival plan and rejected the FAI takeover, but unsurprisingly the self-interest and inability to manage the proverbial ****-up in a brewery that has characterised Irish club football administration prevailed and they FAI were the only show in town.
The 11 teams in the premier all signed up to it, as would Shamrock Rovers and Galway United. If Dundalk want to stay in senior football then they HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO SIGN UP.
Frankfurt Hoop
12/12/2006, 10:35 AM
Also none of this bodes well for the All New Singing And Dancing, wait for it, "Eircom League of Ireland".
In a normal year Waterford would have gone down anyway. So we had a season long consultation process to decide that Dundalk couldn't beat Galway in a beauty contest (though they were already behind on the four year criteria).
Now the points awarded are dribbling out, about half of them are in the public domain although Delaney was treating them like a North Korean state secret yesterday.
The new league is a shambles and a PR disaster months before a ball has been kicked.
marley
12/12/2006, 10:35 AM
Remember also that clubs signed up to the previous 5 seasons but as usual the FAI fu*ked that up . They decided to move the goalposts which effectively cost us our place. If we had gone on the original criteria Dundalk would have got points for finishing 10th in the Premier when there were 12 teams and also we won the FAI cup that year.
So you tell me ONEREDARMY what did we sign up to the old critiera or the new criteria
OneRedArmy
12/12/2006, 10:36 AM
The 11 teams in the premier all signed up to it, as would Shamrock Rovers and Galway United. If Dundalk want to stay in senior football then they HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO SIGN UP.Thats democracy for you!
GalwayFrancis
12/12/2006, 10:38 AM
They are the biggest college in the country, in an area where there is little or no soccer, they have bucketloads of marketability.
the only thing is though, that from what i know of the area, its a rugby part of town and the locals would perfer to go watching egg-chasers than watch some college students play soccer.
hope the belfield bowl comes into reality, cause ucd have potential
tiktok
12/12/2006, 10:51 AM
This is what I cannot understand. They are the biggest college in the country, in an area where there is little or no soccer, they have bucketloads of marketability.
I disagree. The problem they have is that anyone who is remotely interested in the League of Ireland will most likely have formed an affinity to another club by the time they reach college age, and those that don't have interest in the LoI will not be easily won over by Belfield (no offence UCD fans).
NY Hoop
12/12/2006, 11:16 AM
Interesting to note that despite all the pontificating from Rovers fans that Dundalk were a mess, that Dundalk actually scored higher in off the field points than Rovers did. Its only their playing record over the past 4 years that cost them.
I'm sure that'll console them.
They only finished 2 points ahead of us on off field points which is embarrassing really when you consider our history before the fans took over to run the club professionally. Before that we had a failed license, almost went bust and we still have no home ground.
Fair play to the Dundalk fans here who are taking it on the chin knowing full well they had no chance but I have no sympathy for the whinging coming out of Oriel. Can they not add?
Also mcgonigle you obviously missed the absolute shambles when we played up there twice this season.
Pathetic that the usual limerick WUM is slagging off Galway:eek:
Obviously this should have been decided on the pitch but as has been mentioned ad nauseum the clubs signed up for it.
The results, of course, should be made public. Incredibly Delaney said that clubs can seek out the results and then issue them publically so what's the difference?:rolleyes:
What is the story with the name of the league? It appears the National part of it is gone.
Good to be back in the premier.
KOH
Dodge
12/12/2006, 11:20 AM
But previous license problems had no bearing on this years application so your previous problems had nothing to do with your score.
Did clubs get a full breakdown or totals only?
DmanDmythDledge
12/12/2006, 11:46 AM
So, if these are correct, so far GUFC lead the way for off the feild with UCD coming a close 2nd ? Even there supporters must be shocked at this??
To be honest I'm surprised that we got second, not surprised by our score though.
No. We always knew we were one of the best run clubs in the country.
Our score points out that we are the best run club in the country as attendences formed part of the scores.:)
But previous license problems had no bearing on this years application so your previous problems had nothing to do with your score.
Licensing was part of the criteria so Rovers would have lost points (or not gained points) for that.
On the Field
1. Shels 493
2. Cork City 460
2. Derry City 460
4. Drogs 437
5. Longford 430
6. Bohs 420
7. St Pats 410
8. Rovers 380
9. UCD 370
10.Sligo 340
11. Waterford 337
12. Bray 333
13. Galway 260
14. Dundalk 247
Off the Field
Galway 389
UCD 374
Bohs 371
Derry City 370
Sligo 360
Bray 351
Dundalk 348
Rovers 346
Drogs 300
Waterford 295
Shels 278
Cork City N/A
Longford N/A
St Pats N/A
chippie0001
12/12/2006, 12:13 PM
They only finished 2 points ahead of us on off field points which is embarrassing really when you consider our history before the fans took over to run the club professionally. Before that we had a failed license, almost went bust and we still have no home ground.
Fair play to the Dundalk fans here who are taking it on the chin knowing full well they had no chance but I have no sympathy for the whinging coming out of Oriel. Can they not add?
Also mcgonigle you obviously missed the absolute shambles when we played up there twice this season.
Pathetic that the usual limerick WUM is slagging off Galway:eek:
Obviously this should have been decided on the pitch but as has been mentioned ad nauseum the clubs signed up for it.
The results, of course, should be made public. Incredibly Delaney said that clubs can seek out the results and then issue them publically so what's the difference?:rolleyes:
What is the story with the name of the league? It appears the National part of it is gone.
Good to be back in the premier.
KOH
Further irony Dodge, is that a lot of the points Rovers got for on the field, were achieved under the former regime,spending grant money on the first team. No punishment for this either in the rules, while clubs like Dundalk got less points while playing by the rules. Hardly fair now is it.
chippie0001
12/12/2006, 12:14 PM
On the Field
1. Shels 493
2. Cork City 460
2. Derry City 460
4. Drogs 437
5. Longford 430
6. Bohs 420
7. St Pats 410
8. Rovers 380
9. UCD 370
10.Sligo 340
11. Waterford 337
12. Bray 333
13. Galway 260
14. Dundalk 247
Off the Field
Galway 389
UCD 374
Bohs 371
Derry City 370
Sligo 360
Bray 351
Dundalk 348
Rovers 346
Drogs 300
Waterford 295
Shels 278
Cork City N/A
Longford N/A
St Pats N/A
We are the third best club off the pitch. Scary :eek:
Schumi
12/12/2006, 12:15 PM
Do we get into the UEFA Marketability Cup now?
superfrank
12/12/2006, 12:24 PM
Completely disgraceful decision. Dundalk earned the right to be in the Premier. They won the play-off. They were awarded a licence but due to some bull**** they'renot allowed in. This is the state of Irish football moment and it's a total joke. I wholeheartedly agree with what John Gill said on elevenaside.com.
Disgraceful. The FAI have hit a new low.
NY Hoop
12/12/2006, 12:27 PM
Interesting to note that despite all the pontificating from Rovers fans that Dundalk were a mess, that Dundalk actually scored higher in off the field points than Rovers did. Its only their playing record over the past 4 years that cost them.
I'm sure that'll console them.
Further irony Dodge, is that a lot of the points Rovers got for on the field, were achieved under the former regime,spending grant money on the first team. No punishment for this either in the rules, while clubs like Dundalk got less points while playing by the rules. Hardly fair now is it.
How many wind up orders were issued this season to clubs? Those clubs will be in the premier. You're deluded if you think clubs are spending money they dont have on players wages.
KOH
chippie0001
12/12/2006, 12:30 PM
How many wind up orders were issued this season to clubs? Those clubs will be in the premier. You're deluded if you think clubs are spending money they dont have on players wages.
KOH
I know full well clubs are spending money on players they don't have, including my own club before we sold Dalymount. However clubs like Cork/Shels ourselves have to pay those bills, you had them wrote off, legally I know. Other clubs cut back ala Galway/Athlone etc and they earned less on the field points as a result and had no debts written off. Thats hardly fair now is it?
pineapple stu
12/12/2006, 12:43 PM
I dont know is how people think this process turned out to be a farce.
It hasn't turned into a farce. It was a farce all along, since the day it was announced. Most sensible people on this board said so.
I don't agree with spreading money around in an equal manner. That just perpetuates the current situation and offers no real incentive for growth.
I don't agree with spreading money around in an equal manner either - I never said I did. I do, however, want to see money spread around in a more equal manner. Different thing altogether. If you have a situation where there's a huge gap between coming first, second and third, for example (about E300,000 next year), some clubs are going to spend based on finishing first, won't manage it and be stuck for money. Alternatively, they'll get a huge cash injection one year, add it to their budget the next, come third and suddenly have to cut back again. It's why Leeds are where they are (overstretched to get into CL), why Shels are where they are, why Bradford are where they are and many others who went into administration chasing big money.
In any case, what's wrong with the current situation? You show me a league in Europe where there were two league titles going right down to the wire, where teams can go from relegation play-off to league runners up in a matter of seasons, where teams can go from the First Division to top half of the Premier in one year, etc. The eL is a superbly competitive league, and pooling most of the cash in the hands of a few teams could well harm that.
A question for UCD supporters; UCD are well run and financially viable etc, now this may of been answered here before but could one of you explain how your finances operate. Do you receive any subsidies etc.
Fundraising, as with a lot of other clubs. Main things - Superleague, jersey sponsorship (worth more than you might think), soccer camps, golf outings, alumni dinners, donations, selling players, etc. It all adds up.
The problem they have is that anyone who is remotely interested in the League of Ireland will most likely have formed an affinity to another club by the time they reach college age, and those that don't have interest in the LoI will not be easily won over by Belfield (no offence UCD fans).
None taken - you're right. Which is why the club is giving up on the college to a large extent and focussing on the local area with soccer camps, links to local clubs and the likes. You have to get new fans at a young age, not at 17/18. When you're six or seven, it doesn't matter what the ground is like - going to a live football game is a thrill, especially if you're watching the same players who were coaching you earlier in the week. And then once you're hooked, we own you. :)
NY Hoop
12/12/2006, 12:49 PM
But previous license problems had no bearing on this years application so your previous problems had nothing to do with your score.
Did clubs get a full breakdown or totals only?
Yes they did.
Clubs get a full breakdown if they ask for them. They should be released publically.
KOH
holidaysong
12/12/2006, 12:55 PM
Yesterday was the worst day I have ever had to endure as a football fan. I could have accepted Rovers going up no bother but for Galway to go up and for us to stay down was sickening. It's even worse when I see how good we did on 'off the field matters'. So we stay down due to our record over the past four seasons, when towards the end of these seasons with nothing left to play for we were fielding youth teams at times because we weren't told then that it would affect us now. We hadn't even signed up for the past four seasons criteria, we signed up for the past five which included our FAI Cup win in 2002 but that was botched due to typical FAI incompetence with the Kildare County not existing situation. Nothing like this should be allowed to happen again. Keep football on the pitch!
P.S. - I wish to see Galway United crash and burn.
Was there not a stage over the past 2 or 3 seasons, cant remember, that Waterford could not afford to pay there players ? meaning players left etc ?
No. This hoary old chestnut is trotted out here on a regular basis, and some people seem to have no interest in getting it right, for whatever reason. It has NEVER happened that we couldn't pay players. Some players left at the end of the last season because they were told that we couldn't pay them more, but that's quite different.
If Waterford thought they were safe with off the field then worse gobshi*es them. The Carlise is by no means the best or nicest ground the league but the RSC is just shocking - 1 stand and the worst pitch in the premier last season is all it consists of.
Well, it wasn't a beauty contest, but point taken, the powers that be seemingly thought they HAD done enough.
Look, bottom line is, now that Des Cahill's furk-up on radio yesterday has been put right and the figures are there for all to see, you won't find any Waterford fan complaining about this. Galway, and a couple of other sides we thought we might have done better than, beat us fair and square. We do feel let down, but not by the IAG.
Slightly ironic thing is under any other circumstances I'd like to see Galway in the Premier too.
and just one further point if waterford win the first div and galway were to come bottom of the first would we be back to square one and would genisis have been a waste of time
That would be hilarious though. Can't see it but fingers crossed... ;)
How many wind up orders were issued this season to clubs? Those clubs will be in the premier. You're deluded if you think clubs are spending money they dont have on players wages.
Didn't say otherwise, nor did I say Rovers shouldn't be in it.
Yes they did.
Clubs get a full breakdown if they ask for them. They should be released publically.
Thanks for that.
Dundalk have no grounds to complain. They signed up mto process that rated clubs on & off the pitch & had one of their own on the IAG panel. The only queries would be the off the pitch ratings. I someone can remember how they break down would be able to judge...?
:rolleyes:
by way of explanation, I think its only natural to expect upset from Dundalk or 'whinging' as people have said above. There is no ill will to any clubs from the supporters here, just toward the typically ham fisted efforts of the FAI to "improve" the state of the domestic leagues. From our point of view(again):
Dundalk finished with higher off the field points than clubs allowed in to the premier.
Dundalk were UNQUESTIONABLY a better side this season than galway.
Travelling and home support were outstanding, probably also better than Galway.. (Galway supporters visiting oriel : 20 - 50, dundalk supporters in terryland 600-700. I know its only 2 fixtures but its a pretty large discrepancy given the clubs were both at the top of the table).
So even if dundalk signed up (choice or not), this system and supposed benefits have clearly to be questioned. how will the league benifit from a currently inferior side being promoted?? Is it good for the league that we are being shafted (again) this time due to a couple of years in the doldrums (given the history of the club)? clearly the club was on the rebound and this completly stifles progress (ability to get good new players, staff and fans total disillousionment etc etc.).More cash earned from the premier would allow clubs who actually won their way in to improve facilities and infrastructure quickly, not just keep the ones who already have a nice gaff sweet. Good luck to galway and all that but the whole thing benefits only them rather than the league as a whole. Clearly the fact that the club is 'well run' has not won them anything of late.
Dundalk should bounce back anyway despite all of this sh1te from the FAI and the majority if not all of the fans will return to oriel next season (though we have to be forgiven for being extremely ****ed off).
bigmac
12/12/2006, 1:42 PM
Look, bottom line is, now that Des Cahill's furk-up on radio yesterday has been put right and the figures are there for all to see, you won't find any Waterford fan complaining about this.
Well put Stann, you can add my endorsement to that entire post.
NY Hoop
12/12/2006, 2:00 PM
by way of explanation, I think its only natural to expect upset from Dundalk or 'whinging' as people have said above. There is no ill will to any clubs from the supporters here, just toward the typically ham fisted efforts of the FAI to "improve" the state of the domestic leagues. From our point of view(again):
Dundalk finished with higher off the field points than clubs allowed in to the premier.
Dundalk were UNQUESTIONABLY a better side this season than galway.
Travelling and home support were outstanding, probably also better than Galway.. (Galway supporters visiting oriel : 20 - 50, dundalk supporters in terryland 600-700. I know its only 2 fixtures but its a pretty large discrepancy given the clubs were both at the top of the table).
As any Galway fan will tell confirm dundalk brought about a dozen fans to the first fixture in Terryland.
KOH
Gotta love the way Hooperatzi, NY Hoop (shock horror), and a few of the Galway lads focus on waiting for me to trip over my words to post on any point I've been making. There is no debate on any point I bring up, just the usual foot.ie claptrap of 'look he used a bad turn of phrase, that means every point he has made so far is wrong', a bit pathetic really.
Love the way NY Hoop's always insightful argument of 'you're a WUM' comes out in discussions in which he isn't involved, tell me NY Hoop are you not a WUM when the only post you have about anything I have said in this thread is to insult me? again it's a bit pathetic really
Oh and the argument of 'I'm only against the whole process of deciding football matters in an office because I hate Galway' doesn't really add up when a) this argument is made by people who's agreement to these results is based on their hatred for Dundalk, and b) the main criticism I have against Galway United is that their fans have been gloating about this for weeks on here.
So off you go lads, go through that with a fine tooth comb and see if I used the wrong word, or phrase anywhere in this and base your whole argument on that, call me bitter, resentful, a WUM, or whatever and paper over the cracks in this process with those insults
by way of explanation, I think its only natural to expect upset from Dundalk or 'whinging' as people have said above. There is no ill will to any clubs from the supporters here, just toward the typically ham fisted efforts of the FAI to "improve" the state of the domestic leagues. From our point of view(again):
Dundalk finished with higher off the field points than clubs allowed in to the premier.
Dundalk were UNQUESTIONABLY a better side this season than galway.
Travelling and home support were outstanding, probably also better than Galway.. (Galway supporters visiting oriel : 20 - 50, dundalk supporters in terryland 600-700. I know its only 2 fixtures but its a pretty large discrepancy given the clubs were both at the top of the table).
So even if dundalk signed up (choice or not), this system and supposed benefits have clearly to be questioned. how will the league benifit from a currently inferior side being promoted?? Is it good for the league that we are being shafted (again) this time due to a couple of years in the doldrums (given the history of the club)? clearly the club was on the rebound and this completly stifles progress (ability to get good new players, staff and fans total disillousionment etc etc.).More cash earned from the premier would allow clubs who actually won their way in to improve facilities and infrastructure quickly, not just keep the ones who already have a nice gaff sweet. Good luck to galway and all that but the whole thing benefits only them rather than the league as a whole. Clearly the fact that the club is 'well run' has not won them anything of late.
Dundalk should bounce back anyway despite all of this sh1te from the FAI and the majority if not all of the fans will return to oriel next season (though we have to be forgiven for being extremely ****ed off).
It wasn't that many.100 or 200 tops.
Also the decision wasn't based on last season, it was based on the last five years and United were ahead of Dundalk on the pitch and off the pitch over that time.
It's tough luck and a **** way for things to go but every club knew the consequences when they signed up to the league.
thomas
12/12/2006, 2:28 PM
good to know that the clubs competing for the premier are arguing over whether they bring 12-50 fans on away trips.
Well Dundalk had more than your lot in the last game in Terryland too!
thomas
12/12/2006, 2:35 PM
tit for tit is it now?
It's tough luck and a **** way for things to go but every club knew the consequences when they signed up to the league.
Since no-one has answered my own, and a lot of others question on this I'll ask again. What do people who say this think the alternative for clubs not saying yes to this was? I'll take Limerick as my first example (although I've already posted this point, no one responded to it).
If Limerick FC had thrown a spanner in the works and voted No to this what do you think would have happened? Do you think this whole process wouldn't have gone ahead? Because I don't. Here's what would have happened though. Limerick FC would currently be hoping that the FAI, who would have had a grudge against the club, would pass through their re-application for a 1st division license. So what do you think would have happened when the FAI realised they could get their own back on Limerick? They would boot us right out of senior football in Ireland.
Now lets take Kilkenny as another example. Let's say they voted No on this, what do you think would happen if they finished bottom of the 1st Division next year and had to reapply to the grudge holding FAI for reapplication? Because I reckon the FAI would be on to the phone to Wexford telling them they can have Kilkenny's place faster than you think.
Furthermore what would have happened if Dundalk had said No to this? Even if the committee had kept their decision to keep them in the 1st Division for next season. What would have happened if they had gone out and won the 1st Division next year and applied for a Premier License? Again I believe the FAI would turn down their Premier License appeal for that year and punish them by keeping them in the 1st Division.
So give me a break when you say that every club had a resonable option in this vote, only the big clubs like Derry, Cork and Shelbourne probably could have turned around and said no and been assured of no punishment off of the FAI
That's presuming that the FAI are so unprofessional as to hold a grudge.
Delaney's father was a chairman of Waterford.One of the other main decision makers has connections with Dundalk.Surely if either of these clubs had issues they would have at least listened to them and surely if clubs felt they were being "bullied" into a decision, the other clubs would have weighed in behind them with support to ensure the FAI would not have so much power.
But none of that happened and all clubs felt the league was a positive step forward. A couple of clubs were always going to feel hard done by but that's the way it goes.
Are you trying to say the FAI are professional?
Release those figures and maybe we'll talk....
That's presuming that the FAI are so unprofessional as to hold a grudge.
Are you seriously asking me if I think the FAI is unprofessional?
Delaney's father was a chairman of Waterford.One of the other main decision makers has connections with Dundalk.Surely if either of these clubs had issues they would have at least listened to them and surely if clubs felt they were being "bullied" into a decision, the other clubs would have weighed in behind them with support to ensure the FAI would not have so much power.
Hasn't football history thought us that the big clubs couldn't give a toss about the smaller clubs? Most of the people on here that supported this process and decision are fans of clubs who were always going to be admitted into the Premier League anyway, whilst a lot of the fans of the clubs who could have been affected by it (bar Galway) were either sceptical, or hostile towards it. I think it says a lot about what backing any small club could have recieved from the bigger teams
Are you seriously asking me if I think the FAI is unprofessional?
I'm asking you are they so unprofessional that they would hold a grudge?
You obviously think they are.
Hasn't football history thought us that the big clubs couldn't give a toss about the smaller clubs? Most of the people on here that supported this process and decision are fans of clubs who were always going to be admitted into the Premier League anyway, whilst a lot of the fans of the clubs who could have been affected by it (bar Galway) were either sceptical, or hostile towards it. I think it says a lot about what backing any small club could have recieved from the bigger teams
It's not a matter of a difference between big clubs and small clubs.Are Bray and Longford bigger than Dundalk for example? My point is that the clubs would stand up for each other if the FAI were not allowing them to voice their concerns about the new league.
Of course this is all just hypothetical nonsense anyway.I haven't heard one club say they were pressured into this decision.
Dundalk came out the worst, tough ****.
It wasn't that many.100 or 200 tops.
Also the decision wasn't based on last season, it was based on the last five years and United were ahead of Dundalk on the pitch and off the pitch over that time.
It's tough luck and a **** way for things to go but every club knew the consequences when they signed up to the league.
sure, not disputed excpt. 4 years ... anyway you seem to miss the point of my question. The whole idea of this shake up is to improve the premier, how is promoting a currently inferior side, with at most a similar sized fan base going to benefit the league in general?? Our facilities and ground capacity (plenty of improvements in the pipeline) are all right. outside that surely the value (therefore marketability) of any league is inherent in the quality of football played, and standard of any club (all things considered) measureable only by sucess in the league in any given season. why 4 years?? why not 10??
i know, i know... we signed up (but the limerick lads point is a good 1). I was just trying to get an answer as to how this particular (galway/dk) decision benefits the league as a whole... still stumped. :confused:
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