Eircom League Co Efficient for 2006/2007

[thejollyrodger]

a win for cork tonight. What does that mean for the EL co-efficient ?

[pineapple stu]

Link. (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2007.html)

Belarus lost (we were level with them). The three countries above us, and six of the eight above us (excluding Liechtenstein, who don't enter the CL and aren't in our UEFA Cup section) all won though. So it was a good win, if only from the point of view of staying still.

[thejollyrodger]

we really need the other 2 EL clubs to get wins as well.

[higgins]

We need to catch the teams in the Northern Section,
so that Iceland and Belarus.

If we got ahead of them we would get seeded in the UEFA Cup.

and as Shels have a higher Team Coefficient they would be be seeded in the Champions League anyway ;)

[brandy86]

Does points gained in the preliminary rounds of the Champions lge and UEFA Cups go towards clubs individual co-efficient?

[kdjaC]

Does points gained in the preliminary rounds of the Champions lge and UEFA Cups go towards clubs individual co-efficient?



Yes but tbh its the only place they matter, after the prelims co effs dont matter.


kdjac

[brandy86]

Ok fair enough but this was confusing me. Its from this site http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/index.html but i see points have been added to the Team Coefficients on the same site.

UEFA Team Ranking
The UEFA team coefficients are calculated as the sum of the number of points of each individual team, and 33% of the country coefficient. Before 2004 the contribution of the country coefficient was 50%. See the team coefficients of 2006 for an example of such a calculation. For the calculation of the individual points of the team coefficients games played in qualifying rounds are not taken into account.
The UEFA team ranking is computed by the sum of 5 coefficients in the last 5 years. See the team ranking of 2006 for an example of such a ranking list. In this list the yellow lines with country information indicate the lowest possible value for a team of that country (even if that team didn't play any game in the last five years). The most recent team ranking is used for seeding of clubs for draws in the Champions League and the UEFA Cup.

[kdjaC]

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/tcoef2007.html

This page kinda shows how it works as it only shows those in UEFA this season.


That is odd as its the only way a club of umm our stature could get a higher cooeficent unless it not taken into account for this season as its already started.



kdjac

[CuanaD]

Link. (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2007.html)

Belarus lost (we were level with them). The three countries above us, and six of the eight above us (excluding Liechtenstein, who don't enter the CL and aren't in our UEFA Cup section) all won though. So it was a good win, if only from the point of view of staying still.

Jeez, Bert really keeps that site up-to-date!

[thejollyrodger]

does anyone think we can get the 1.833 again this season ??? the clubs arent really firing on all cylinders TBH.

[GavinZac]

since most of our games will be against "northern group" opposition, and UEFA Cup group qualification is the most plausible of european break-throughs at the moment, we should concentrate on our "northern" opponents:

24 Denmark 3.250 4.200 1.500 3.500 0.000 12.450 3/ 3
26 Sweden 2.250 1.500 3.000 2.666 0.000 9.416 4/ 4
31 Latvia 1.166 0.833 3.166 1.333 0.333 6.831 3/ 3
32 Finland 0.333 1.666 1.666 2.333 0.333 6.331 3/ 3
34 Lithuania 0.833 0.833 2.500 1.333 0.000 5.499 3/ 3
37 Iceland 0.166 0.500 2.500 0.833 0.333 4.332 3/ 3
39 Ireland 0.166 0.333 1.333 1.833 0.333 3.998 3/ 3
43 Estonia 0.166 0.333 0.833 0.833 0.000 2.165 3/ 3

iceland definately look catch-able this year. lithuania and latvia are living off a season each of good progress with nothing real since then (thanks in part to cork city)

[swinfordfc]

Yes Ireland should be looking to catch Iceland and get 37 spot, thats should be the aim come on Derry and Drogheda :D

[CuanaD]

We're looking for at least 1 full point each year (2 more wins 'only'!) Do that every year & we would be probably ranked 30-35 - this would prety much guarantee seeding each year

[Red&White]

Just out of interest, and completely hypothetically, if an EL side won the Champions League or UEFA Cup, would every EL team be seeded next year? Would they get to skip a qualifying round or anything?

[sullanefc]

Just out of interest, and completely hypothetically, if an EL side won the Champions League or UEFA Cup, would every EL team be seeded next year? Would they get to skip a qualifying round or anything?

Well Liverpool got 26 points the year they won it, and Arsenal got 27 points last year for making the final. They obviousley won more games of something. Anyway, that would lift Ireland up to about 7 or 8th. Just behind Holland.

[pineapple stu]

Does points gained in the preliminary rounds of the Champions lge and UEFA Cups go towards clubs individual co-efficient?
No. Only points earned in rounds proper (i.e. not qualifying rounds) count towards club coefficients.

[higgins]

As Stu says above, your team coefficient does not rise with prelim points gained except that you get 33% of the Country coefficient and there in a round about way you go up :)

Also Iceland won away from home the other night so they wont be that catachable this season even with a 1.000+ score.

Iceland are useless !!
How they win is beyond me but we have to make some ground this season.

I predict it will be next season before we begin to rise into the seeded half but lets hope Im wrong.

[gspain]

A Belarus side drew in Poland and the other are 2 up on a Romanian side.

Great draw for Drogheda tonight and derry still level at half time. Still it will be difficult to make anymore ground.

[DmanDmythDledge]

What would we have to do to automatically qualify for the second preliminary CL?

[thejollyrodger]

if we can average 1.833 for the next 4 seasons we will fly up but i cant see it happening.

[pineapple stu]

Come about 27th.

Not out of question in a few years' time - would have to get about 2.000 points per year, which is only equivalent to winning home and away in your first round match and losing home and away in the second round.

[higgins]

What would we have to do to automatically qualify for the second preliminary CL?

Get a Country Ranking of 25 or above.

[CuanaD]

This:http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2009.html
is the page I'm most interested in - Shows the rankings for this year coupled with the last two - since we started stringing together decent results - gives us an idea where we could be ranked in 2009:D :ball:

[chippie0001]

So what does 1 home, 1 away win and a draw do for us so far? Surely a great start. It will be 2009 before we are back in Europe so will matter then.

[pineapple stu]

With both Icelandic teams losing, we go above them and into the seeded CL spots for a start.

[chippie0001]

In English can someone explain what results got us 1.833 last year, a bit confused, also what is this year so far? Is it an average of results between teams.

[pineapple stu]

1 point for a win, ½ for a draw.

Double that when you get out of the qualifying rounds. The InterToto doesn't count. You add every team's points together and divide by the number of teams.

So this season you have Cork winning, Derry winning and Drogs drawing. That's 1+1+.5=2.5, which divided by three is 0.833.

Last year was 2½ from Shels (two wins v Glentoran and a draw against Steaua), 1 from Longford (Carmarthen win) and 2 from Cork (Ekranes win and two draws against Djurgarden). Total of 5.5, which divided by 3 is 1.833.

Had Cork snuck a draw against Slavia, we'd have gotten an extra point (draw in a round proper is worth double), which would have brought us to 6.5/3 = 2.167.

Any better?

[chippie0001]

Thanks, thought it was that, the dividing by three through me. Cheers.

[thejollyrodger]

we have a right bit of work to do this season to match the 1.833. I think we really need 2 or 3 wins at home. By 2009 if we can keep the results up I think we will be breaking into the 3rd qualifying round a lot more regularly.

[pineapple stu]

Update already! (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2007.html) Up to 38th, just half a point off Macedonia now.

[thejollyrodger]

almost 37th ! roll on a few more victories:)

[pete]

Ensuring seeding next season would be a big step. Nice easy draws & 6 wins & up we go... :ball:

[swinfordfc]

Congrats to all 3 teams in Europe but they have to finish the job in the return legs. Then we see how the progression up the table

[bigmac]

Congrats to all 3 teams in Europe but they have to finish the job in the return legs. Then we see how the progression up the table

Agreed. Would be nice to be getting about 1.5 a year or so - would have us knocking on the door of the top 30. Well done to both teams - even better results to get away from home.

[thejollyrodger]

longford got a decent result a season or two ago and then totally messed up the next leg. But all three teams could win their next leg.

[Hecko]

derry and drogheda must be expecting to win their home legs now. We'll be happy with a draw in Cyprus, but we should be confident of getting that.

Then you're looking for a couple of more points in the next round and we're making real progress

[dav_sfc]

Thinking more on what Pete said... (thinking TOO much more to be honest!) anyway...

Seeded next year, and 6 wins in the first round. (CL + 2xUefa) That's 2.0 points a year. do that (alone) for the next 5 years and we will have a nice healthy 10 points and a rank of 26th (on current standings!) Not too bad!
If we got to 25th and we were automatically in the CL 2nd round I assume that would mean we are seeded, right?
The opposition there would still be stiffer than what we would have faced in the CL 3rd round but the points awarded are the same. So are we not better off in the 3rd round (i.e. lower than 25th!) in order to keep getting our 2 (easy?!) points a year?
I would hope though that the standard of football would be raised to a level where if we were 25th in 7 or 8 years time that we would be looking to pick up maximum points from those games and trying to break into the CL group stages.
I see it this way, there are two things that can happen at that stage, (1). A Hadjuk Split style failure and loss of points and revenue!! or (2.) An FC Thun style success and European (group stage) glory and wads of cash.

The problem is this... we don't have to improve much in the next 5 years to be looking at 2 points a year (as long as we are seeded in rd 3) but if we did get into the 25th spot we could fall on our faces in the 2nd round, if we don't improve enough.

We would have to be making rd 3 regularly to finance such a big improvement in football quality. From the Shels game against Deportivo we can see that the extra revenue (there is a pun there, I'm sure!) doesn't last long.

So... now that we are seeded (and lets hope we keep it that way after the second round!) should investors not be falling over themselves to buy into the Irish league? My business head is left somewhere near Worzel Gummidge's good-looking head so bear with me.... but I'm thinking like this... ('thinking' used lightly)

Champions league group stage revenue = ?? 15 million+? (plus all the extra benefits)

Time it takes to get seeded for the 2nd round, 6 years (as above).

1-4 years competing in the 2nd and 3rd round before group qualification!

Total 10 years to group stages!

Cost of subsidising an EL team for 10 years?? (HELP!) 500k - 1million a year 5 - 10 million?

Return in 10 years? 5-10 million+,

Keep that qualification going and its 5-10 million a year! - minus increasing costs of a better team + extra sponsorships and gate receipts etc... (see how my plan is great! where is my check-book?) You certainly will not get that return buying into Sunderland! or Chelsea for that matter!

Another question? do Irish teams represent a better investment than say the ten teams above then in the co-efficients? Are we cheaper to buy? have a bigger fan base/potential fan base? need less development (stadia etc...)? have a well organised FA (please hold back laughter)? good grass level football? Your thoughts please?

I here Ollie Byrne talking about a 10 million investment from somewhere over the next so-many years, this is the kind of thing that could insure a 2 points a year co-efficient and further progress!

Well that's it. I've said enough/too much.
Dave out.

[Jerry The Saint]

What did it say in the magical Genesis Report - the league should be ranked in the top 20 within 5 years or something? And they just pulled this number out of their arse without having a clue how the rankings work or bothering to do any research? :rolleyes:

Just checking.

[Ronnie]

Seeing as were on theory stage, if a club could generate the revenue, to get to the next step, how many players in our current league would get in the team? I mean would it be a case of trying to attract back Irish lads at Chamionship level, or maybe have 11 non nationals?

[Soper]

Seeing as were on theory stage, if a club could generate the revenue, to get to the next step, how many players in our current league would get in the team? I mean would it be a case of trying to attract back Irish lads at Chamionship level, or maybe have 11 non nationals?
If clubs got to that level, then they would be able to attract young Irish players that are over in the UK (the Anthony Stoke's and Darren Gibsons)back on at least a loan basis, surely.Add to that a few foreign players, and a lot of the current breed of EL players could well be good enough.It's all about infastrcture though - we need to attract the young Irish lads to stay.

[Krstic]

should investors not be falling over themselves to buy into the Irish league? My business head is left somewhere near Worzel Gummidge's good-looking head so bear with me.... but I'm thinking like this... ('thinking' used lightly)



Why would League of Ireland clubs doing well in Europe have anything to do with potential investment in a League that doesn't even take European competition seriously:confused:

[higgins]

The opposition there would still be stiffer than what we would have faced in the CL 3rd round but the points awarded are the same. So are we not better off in the 3rd round (i.e. lower than 25th!) in order to keep getting our 2 (easy?!) points a year?

Whats the point in trying to get points if you dont want to move up the list? It defeats the purpose in the first place :confused:

I know you put a very valid argument across but the aim of the game is to rise up through the rankings.

You will get a yoyo effect where some seasons we are straight into 2nd QR and others we are back down as a seeded side and pick up decent points allowing us to get back up to the 2QR.

You dont have to stick there as soon as you go up and we probably wont but your talking about the CL here and its one team.

We will hopefully have two seeded sides in the UEFA Cup picking up points while our CL team is having a bash as the 2nd QR. Facing a winner from the 1st QR is not all that bad. You could nearly say Cork are doing this already as they are playing the seeded team who should win through, in theory.
Imagine this was the 2nd QR and Cork were facing these guys!!! It would only be a matter of time before we got a favourable draw in the 3rd Round and fluked our way into the CL proper.

[dav_sfc]

Of course i want to see us climb the rankings and I really hope we are able for it when the time comes!
I just don't want to see the league stand still, quality-wise, while we climb the rankings and then not be able to pick up any points in the 2nd QR.

I think i went over the top when I was over-estimating the cost of failure at that stage. To 'yo-yo' a bit around the 25 rank would not be too bad i guess. And, as you said, we really should be looking for success soon in the uefa cup proper! And i mean soon as in COMMON DERRY AND DROGS!

Since seeing Shels draw with Depor at 'home' I really believe a fluke could be on the cards! And the 3-0 away did not reflect that game well and we could have scored over there!
Even a fluke into the Uefa group stages would be incredible and not that far away!

[dav_sfc]

Why would League of Ireland clubs doing well in Europe have anything to do with potential investment in a League that doesn't even take European competition seriously

Well i really hope the league is taking Europe seriously and by having a summer league and postponing matches (Cork vs Bray, i think) so that proper preparations and rest can be had says we have.

The results are starting to come now too (can i have a pop at Longford here? no.. i better not.)

And obviously success in Europe would give investors the return they are looking for. Chelsea were bought the year they got champions league football! (not that that was for return on investment! but at least a CL team is a fun toy!)

[Krstic]

Well i really hope the league is taking Europe seriously

Aah you missed my point dav_sfc.

The Eircom League teams take European football seriously. It's the Irish League,as you put it, who have not taken it seriously.

Surley as an Irish football fan you know the difference between the 2 leagues.

[bigmac]

Aah you missed my point dav_sfc.

The Eircom League teams take European football seriously. It's the Irish League,as you put it, who have not taken it seriously.

Surley as an Irish football fan you know the difference between the 2 leagues.

In fairness, he said "Irish league". The lack of capitals in league means he was talking about a league which is Irish - not necessarily the "Irish League" which is the complete title of our friends north of the border.

[swinfordfc]

Tonight the night Big game for Cork can they get something?

[paudie]

Will the entry of a Montenegrin team in the CL for 2007/08 (presumably with zero coefficient) make it more likely that our league winners will be seeded next year?

[paudie]

Tonight the night Big game for Cork can they get something?

Having seen last weeks game I would be cautiously optomistic.

Apollon aren't fully fit and looked very tired in the second half. The heat/humidity will affect them to some extent as well since they aren't playing regularly.

Their No 9 looked handy but if we play a good possession game we could get the draw or win we need.

[Poor Student]

Will the entry of a Montenegrin team in the CL for 2007/08 (presumably with zero coefficient) make it more likely that our league winners will be seeded next year?

It might. Then again, our seeded team could draw the Montenegrin champions and they could possible be stronger than you'd think.