Attendances 2025

[EatYerGreens]

Apologies to Nigel for jumping the gun a bit with this thread - but is there any word on how many tickets have been sold so far for the Bohs-Rovers Aviva showdown on 16th Feb?

[sbgawa]

They aren't for sale yet

[placid casual]

They've been on sale for about 2 weeks.....
Heard rumors boez have sold about 12,000 and Rovers fans haven't bought many yet,as with Christmas and competing in Europe the priorities we'rent a boez game

[Another Bohemia]

They've been on sale for about 2 weeks.....
Heard rumors boez have sold about 12,000 and Rovers fans haven't bought many yet,as with Christmas and competing in Europe the priorities we'rent a boez game

No need for rumours as Bohs tweeted (or x'd?) that over 12000 were sold in the first 24 hours

https://x.com/bfcdublin/status/1867906131701760476

That was well before Christmas so I'd say the number has increased since then.

[outspoken]

It won't break 20k

[Acornvilla]

It won't break 20k
I think there will be a lot of build up and hype in the run up to the game and they will get decent sales, I'd have thought 20k the lower side of estimates not the ceiling. It'll be fun to watch it shake out

[sbgawa]

Sorry guys I went on yhe Rovers site and there were none for sale so i assumed not for sale yet. CLub certainly haven't been pushing yet.

[Another Bohemia]

Sorry guys I went on yhe Rovers site and there were none for sale so i assumed not for sale yet. CLub certainly haven't been pushing yet.

More than likely the away section hasn't been put on sale yet. Not sure if that would be at the request of Rovers, the guards or Bohs but I'd imagine a link would be provided specifically for rovers members/season ticket holders before it went on general release for other associated rovers fans

[Dermobohs]

Imagine a few years ago being disappointed if the attendance at a loi game was “only” 20k.
The times are certainly a- changin

[WeAreRovers]

Rovers members/ST Holders link went live on December 12.

Gang of us sorted together in Premium but generally Rovers fans have had more pressing things on our minds.

Club have done no promotion bar sending out links via email.

[EatYerGreens]

They aren't for sale yet

Been following Rovers for long? :p

[EatYerGreens]

More than likely the away section hasn't been put on sale yet. Not sure if that would be at the request of Rovers, the guards or Bohs but I'd imagine a link would be provided specifically for rovers members/season ticket holders before it went on general release for other associated rovers fans

Looking at Ticketmaster, the 3 middle blocks of the North Stand (i.e. the Rovers end) are sold out, and there's probably only a couple of hundred seats max left in the rest of the stand. Presuably that's where the 'hardcore Rovers fans are placing themselves?

[EatYerGreens]

I think there will be a lot of build up and hype in the run up to the game and they will get decent sales, I'd have thought 20k the lower side of estimates not the ceiling. It'll be fun to watch it shake out

Yeah. There's no urgency re the tickets, so a lot of people will no doubt take a notion nearer the time. Especially if the publicity ramps up nearer it. Bohs should be using traditional media to push it to a whole new audience for a regular league game (billboards, print ads etc).

The Football Walking Tour boys should arrange one of their jaunts for the morning of the game too.

[sbgawa]

Been following Rovers for long? :p
To long obviously, going a bit do lally

[LTFC]

Shels and Pats reporting record season ticket sales , Shels over 2000.
Sh Rovers were reporting over 3500 in early December.

[Shinkicker]

Shels and Pats reporting record season ticket sales , Shels over 2000.
Sh Rovers were reporting over 3500 in early December.
Most clubs reporting increased ST sales. The problem is the ground capacity for Shels, Pats and Bohs. 4k to 6k approximately. Rovers can easily sell 3. 5k to 4.5k or more season tickets and still have plenty of room for the pay as you go supporter and large away support. I'm sure not all of the country clubs fall into the same bracket as Shels, Pats and Bohs, but with Derry spending money and getting increased capacity as well as Droghedas recent success they could suffer the same fate. I'm not sure about the others but overall I think they will see an increase in ST sales and a general increase in attendances. This is great for the game and boosts the argument for funding to upgrade facilities and increase capacities at all clubs.
Bohs moving the first derby game to the Aviva is also a big step forward for the game. Rovers fans complain about only 450 allowed at Dalymount, now they have an opportunity to show up and create an atmosphere that will attract the attention of the recently appointed TDs and make them provide appropriate funding the football in Ireland. I think it's all great for the game. Can't wait for February!!

[D24Saint]

Shels and Pats reporting record season ticket sales , Shels over 2000.
Sh Rovers were reporting over 3500 in early December.

Id say there will be only a few hundred home end tickets available for most games next season. It’s safe to assume the majority of Dublin derbies will be completely sold out.

[ger121]

It won't break 20k

I heard you say that on your Podcast and I reckon you are as bad at estimating attendances at the Aviva as I was for the cup final. Will do over 20k looking at ticket sales to date but it won’t trouble any of the big cup final ones.

[outspoken]

I heard you say that on your Podcast and I reckon you are as bad at estimating attendances at the Aviva as I was for the cup final. Will do over 20k looking at ticket sales to date but it won’t trouble any of the big cup final ones.

Let's say it gets to 25k, it's obviously 15k more than could have been fitted into Tallaght but will it really make people watching on tv at home feel like oh I'm missing out here I need to go and watch a LOI game? I don't think so

[ger121]

Let's say it gets to 25k, it's obviously 15k more than could have been fitted into Tallaght but will it really make people watching on tv at home feel like oh I'm missing out here I need to go and watch a LOI game? I don't think so

That is not the point of having the match in the Aviva. The plan is to try and maximise the attendance (and match revenue) via the support bases of the 2 clubs and maybe the wider LOI. Johnny Barstooler is never going to attend this match, even if it was on in his back garden. 25k is nearly 6 times what you would get into Dalymount and if we ain’t happy with that for a Dublin Derby, then we’ll never be happy with anything.

[dundalkfc10]

Let's say it gets to 25k, it's obviously 15k more than could have been fitted into Tallaght but will it really make people watching on tv at home feel like oh I'm missing out here I need to go and watch a LOI game? I don't think so

If they didn't sell any tickets for the upper tier until all the lower tier was sold out, and then start selling the upper tier facing the camera 25k would actually look very good on TV

[LTFC]

Id say there will be only a few hundred home end tickets available for most games next season. It’s safe to assume the majority of Dublin derbies will be completely sold out.

At the capacities for Tolka, Dalyer and Richmond yes would expect all those to sell out, Rovers at double the capacity should average 8k for the 6 derbies.
Cork should have some bumper crowds too.

5 clubs could average more than 4k at games in 2025.

[Calcio Jack]

As of today we’ve sold 4,000 season tickets

[Dermobohs]

At the capacities for Tolka, Dalyer and Richmond yes would expect all those to sell out, Rovers at double the capacity should average 8k for the 6 derbies.
Cork should have some bumper crowds too.

5 clubs could average more than 4k at games in 2025.
With rovers selling 4000 season tickets, that added to the pay on the day fans, sponsors , guests, away clubs officials who are accommodated in the main stand, and a, what, 1200 away fan allocation then I’d say the derbies will all sell out.

[LTFC]

V good. Think it was similar last season.
What do Rovers give other Dublin clubs for the derbies - is it 10%?

[LTFC]

Just looking at the non league attendances in England, well into their seasons. Only 1 club Southend, having a average higher than Shamrock Rovers last year, 7200, and only 2 others higher than what Pats, Bohs and Shels managed last season, York City and Oldham.
Rovers 6k average would be about middle of the attendances for League 2 clubs this season.
NI clubs appear on that list too, with Glens best at 2900, just ahead of Linfield, 2800.

[EatYerGreens]

Just looking at the non league attendances in England, well into their seasons. Only 1 club Southend, having a average higher than Shamrock Rovers last year, 7200, and only 2 others higher than what Pats, Bohs and Shels managed last season, York City and Oldham.
Rovers 6k average would be about middle of the attendances for League 2 clubs this season.
NI clubs appear on that list too, with Glens best at 2900, just ahead of Linfield, 2800.

Southend, Oldham and York are what I describe as 'temporarily non-league clubs'. They're former league clubs that fell from grace and will be back in the 92 in the coming seasons (though in York's case, they're taking their sweet time over it!).

About half the conference these days comprises of former league clubs, which is mad. Though a number of those were also non-league for quite a while before joining the Football Leahue and then falling out of it again (e.g. Dagenham, Sutton).

[sbgawa]

There are 5 or 6 former FL teams in the level below as well National league north and South. They only introduced relegation from football league in 1987 and the difference between the official Football league and gbe lower levels is not really what it was. It really is more like div 4 and 5 at thisnpoint.

[TonyD]

Let's say it gets to 25k, it's obviously 15k more than could have been fitted into Tallaght but will it really make people watching on tv at home feel like oh I'm missing out here I need to go and watch a LOI game? I don't think so

I think it will be 25,000, maybe even more. There does seem to be genuinely more appetite for the local game now, as evidenced by the season ticket sales, and with the hype over this bound to ramp up as we get nearer the date I think 25,000 is a reasonable expectation. I’m fairly agnostic on the merits of it either way. It’s not going to transform the league or anything, but it should be a good day out for the Rovers and Bohs fans that attend, and a few neutrals will probably tag along.

On the question of facilities, I think I recall a few weeks ago that Pats were hinting that an announcement on Richmond was imminent. Anyone hear any more on that ?

[Dermobohs]

We’ve passed the 3500 mark for season tickets and memberships now, there’s a waiting list of I believe 1500 for both too, never thought I’d see the day tbh.

[EalingGreen]

Southend, Oldham and York are what I describe as 'temporarily non-league clubs'. They're former league clubs that fell from grace and will be back in the 92 in the coming seasons (though in York's case, they're taking their sweet time over it!).

About half the conference these days comprises of former league clubs, which is mad. Though a number of those were also non-league for quite a while before joining the Football Leahue and then falling out of it again (e.g. Dagenham, Sutton).Many of these "temporarily non-league clubs" have been replaced by clubs which traditionally were never league clubs before eg Lge One: Burton, Crawley, Stevenage, Wycombe; Lge Two: Bromley, Cheltenham, Fleetwood, Harrogate, Morecambe, Salford.

So that as some, at least, become established at league level, some of the clubs they have displaced may find their stay in non-league becomes rather more than "temporary". Which is how it should be imo, since with Promotion & Relegation, and proper regulation etc, the process now encourages/rewards Survival of the Fittest, all of which produces a healthier system.

Note, too, that a lot of the "new" clubs have existed for maybe a century before being able to capitalise on increasing populations and wealth in their catchment area (Greater London, South East of England etc) to step up. Alternatively they are in traditionally strong footballing areas (Lancashire, North West etc) and have managed to move ahead of their non-league peers etc.

Which in turn is reflected by the fact that many of the "new club" crowds are still not much higher, indeed sometimes lower than, those of the clubs they've displaced. I'd say this shows how the new boys have managed their resources very professionally when compared with the "older" clubs, yet these latter have nonetheless managed to retain a lot of their support, even when fallen on hard times.

Which yet again emphasises the importance of tradition and heritage etc, and being located in what I call a "proper footballing town" (or area).

[Nesta99]

In the EPL era there does seem to have been a change in the lower league landscape. Firstly a lot of sides that had never been in the top flight or not for years subsequently had they stint and faded, some big clubs falling down divsions after thrying to keep up financially. There was a time when you could almost list the 'conference' sides from listening to the BBC classified results on in the background on Saturdays but the profile has changed. It wouldnt be a shock to find that people saw the $ signs with the money being pumped in to the top flight so very small sides got a cheap cash injection enough to climb the ladder a bit, more 'traditional' lower league sides drifted. Throw in a couple of lottery winnners, former footballers and celebrity owners and there's 4? sides doing some social climbing on that basis alone. Some money filtering down to nonleague would have a greater impact on the smallest sides, not making a major imact on those already spending big for their level, causing a leveling effect. There are a few that are mind boggling bad at never making a go at things and could, Chelmsford City, up the road and Southend just falling apart. I used to enjoy going to games at that level around the North London/Essex for the contrast in facilites, old money v new, dried up old money struggling with their current stock. Anyway there are just some unsupportable sides, too many clubs in one area where one spell of success establishes a support base over another local club and it sticks (and is fickle so changeable), impact of semi wealthy people liking the idea of owning a club with dream of Premier League and think that it will pay for itself the higher they climb. I dont think demographics is major influence,no more than stars aligning and a combination of some money, good manager promotion and then the people come, or the oposite.

[EalingGreen]

In the EPL era there does seem to have been a change in the lower league landscape. The PL dates from 1992/93, but it was only 5 years previously (1987) that automatic promotion and relegation between the Conference and EFL was permitted, and then only for one team each season.

This, rather than the advent of the PL was what really shook up the old order, replacing as it did the pre-existing system whereby teams finishing bottom were voted by the other EFL members either to be retained or replaced. And that maintained the closed shop, since if Club X voted to retain Club Y one season, they could rely on the favour being returned by Club Y should Club X finish bottom the following season. The new system meant previous no-hopers like Bury, Rochdale, Hartlepool and Halifax would in future have to sort their act out just to survive, never mind thrive.

The point being that those which don't can easily be replaced by any number of thrusting, new clubs, there already being over 100 f-t clubs as it is, far exceeding every other country on the planet. All of which reflects what Arsene Wenger once said about England actually being "the most football-obsessed country on the planet", not Brazil or Germany etc.

[All of which is further helped, crowd-wise, by the fact that all PL games are 98% sold out as it is, and even if they could get a ticket, many people aren't able to afford the prices. Which must mean at least some fans must turn to the lower leagues to get their "fix" instead.]

[Nesta99]

Im pulling rank on age here as as a 7 or 8 year old I didnt know that there wasnt automatic P/R from conference. I do recall stuff on meeting ground dtandards and some clubs were saved rather than next best nonleague promoted i think. I am sticking on there being a seachange after the mega TV money of the EPL happened too

[EalingGreen]

I am sticking on there being a seachange after the mega TV money of the EPL happened tooCorrelation, not causation - PL money has never filtered down as far as Lge Two/National League in sufficient amounts to make any real difference.

Which explains why "only" 51 teams have ever played in the PL, with none* of those having come all the way from non-league (v.few from Lges. One or Two in fact).

* - Luton Town had a brief spell in non-League shortly before their one season (2023/24) in the PL. But considering they had been in the top flight for 16 seasons over 3 spells right up to the start of the PL in 1993, when they were relegated after voting for it(!), they don't really count.

[EatYerGreens]

The point being that those which don't can easily be replaced by any number of thrusting, new clubs, there already being over 100 f-t clubs as it is, far exceeding every other country on the planet. All of which reflects what Arsene Wenger once said about England actually being "the most football-obsessed country on the planet", not Brazil or Germany etc.


Isn't it Scotland that has the most senior clubs per head of population anywhere in Europe, or something like that?

England has an impressive number of FT clubs. But also has a population of 57m. Plus add another 3.1m for the fact that the largest towns and main population centres in Wales play in the English pyramid too. So English football definitely has the deepest system there is. But that is in no small part due to population, as well as sheer love of the game.

[EatYerGreens]

Im pulling rank on age here as as a 7 or 8 year old I didnt know that there wasnt automatic P/R from conference. I do recall stuff on meeting ground dtandards and some clubs were saved rather than next best nonleague promoted i think. I am sticking on there being a seachange after the mega TV money of the EPL happened too

Entry and exit to/from the Football League was down to election prior to the introduction of promotion. A closed shop system, where other clubs got to decide your fate every year if you ended up bottom. It was a bit unseemly, as sometimes the voting was used by clubs to vent grudges, or to exclude ambitious new competitors in their area.

There's a great book called 'Denied FC' which goes into some of the shenanigans that went on over the years.

[EalingGreen]

Isn't it Scotland that has the most senior clubs per head of population anywhere in Europe, or something like that? Absolutely and very impressive, even if the overall figures are somewhat skewed by the two Old Firm clubs.


England has an impressive number of FT clubs. But also has a population of 57m. Plus add another 3.1m for the fact that the largest towns and main population centres in Wales play in the English pyramid too. So English football definitely has the deepest system there is. But that is in no small part due to population, as well as sheer love of the game.Fair point re population.

As against that, Germany has a population of 84m, France 68m, Italy 59m, Spain 48m, Brazil 212m(!) and Argentina 47m.

None of these sustains anything like the number of f-t professional clubs, or p-t clubs, as England.

Another factor is that ticket prices in England must be higher than in any of those countries, often considerably so (esp Germany).

While I'm not sure if any of them have to compete with other professional team sports (Rugby Union, Rugby League, Cricket etc) on quite the same scale as England?

And the weather doesn't help much, either.

[Nesta99]

Cheers EYG I will look for that book, sounds like it could give some LoI moments a run for their money.

[EatYerGreens]

Absolutely and very impressive, even if the overall figures are somewhat skewed by the two Old Firm clubs.

Fair point re population.

As against that, Germany has a population of 84m, France 68m, Italy 59m, Spain 48m, Brazil 212m(!) and Argentina 47m.

None of these sustains anything like the number of f-t professional clubs, or p-t clubs, as England.

Another factor is that ticket prices in England must be higher than in any of those countries, often considerably so (esp Germany).

While I'm not sure if any of them have to compete with other professional team sports (Rugby Union, Rugby League, Cricket etc) on quite the same scale as England?

And the weather doesn't help much, either.

As stated, England has a very impressive depth of football by any standard. And having a relatigely large population (by European standards) obviously helps in that. But it's obviously not the full story. For example - Brazil may have 3.5x the population of England and Wales, But it also has a landmass that covers 55 times the territory. It's easy to have lots of professional football clubs in a small densely populated country with a sizeable population. Not so much when you have to fly to games across a country with 4 different time zones.

Russia is the classic example of this. A few years back a team from the Pacific coast of Siberia reached the top division for the first time. From memory their NEAREST fixture was the equivalent of travelling the distance of London to LA. So the fact that Russia has 2.5x the population of E&W pales when you factor in stuff like that.

As an aside, a number of the other teams in Russia's Premier League/top tier (most of which are based in the European part) were annoyed at having to cross 11 toime zones to the other end of the country once a season, so said publicly that the Siberian team should feck off and join the Japanese league instead :D

[culloty82]

Cheers EYG I will look for that book, sounds like it could give some LoI moments a run for their money.

Altrincham (now once more a leading Conference club) won that division in 1980, promptly applied for League status, and lost out to Rochdale by one vote - the story goes that one team promised them their vote but found themselves in the wrong side of the room when ballots were being taken!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979%E2%80%9380_Football_League#Election/Re-election_to_the_Football_League

[EalingGreen]

Brazil may have 3.5x the population of England and Wales, But it also has a landmass that covers 55 times the territory. It's easy to have lots of professional football clubs in a small densely populated country with a sizeable population. Not so much when you have to fly to games across a country with 4 different time zones.Once again, you're confusing Geography and Demography:

"Brazil has a high level of urbanization with 87.8% of the population residing in urban and metropolitan areas."

While 60m Brazilians (= population of England), live in the 30 biggest cities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Brazil_by_population

Of course there are huge distances and time zones between a lot of these, as you say. Nonetheless like eg Australia, the vast majority of Brazilians live on the Eastern Coastal strip (or nearby):

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Yuri-Yegorov/publication/380545210/figure/fig3/AS:11431281243265297@1715682085645/Population-density-in-Brazil-Source.png

Just think of the Amazon jungle as a very big Mayo, though not as wet!

[EatYerGreens]

Once again, you're confusing Geography and Demography:

"Brazil has a high level of urbanization with 87.8% of the population residing in urban and metropolitan areas."

While 60m Brazilians (= population of England), live in the 30 biggest cities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Brazil_by_population

Of course there are huge distances and time zones between a lot of these, as you say. Nonetheless like eg Australia, the vast majority of Brazilians live on the Eastern Coastal strip (or nearby):

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Yuri-Yegorov/publication/380545210/figure/fig3/AS:11431281243265297@1715682085645/Population-density-in-Brazil-Source.png

Just think of the Amazon jungle as a very big Mayo, though not as wet!

All indeed true. But as we know - national football leagues aren't restricted solely to the most populated areas/geographies. They operate nationally. And as Brazil has a pyramid system (two actually, you'l be glad to hear - both national and state), it therefore has clubs from all over the country playing each other in its top 2 tiers which are run on a nationwide basis. So in Série A you have clubs in the far north of the country like Fortaleza playing clubs in the far south like Gremio, with a mere 800km or so between them. In Serie B you have clubs like Cuiabá, in the west of the country (the bit your map shows as thinly populated) playing against clubs who are also considerable distances form them in that nationwide tier.

Interesting that you mention the Amazon jungle, btw. It's largest population centre - Manaus (where England played in the 2014 World Cup) has a population of 2.5m, making it 25% more populous than all of Northern Ireland, despite being in the middle of a massive jungle. So it's hardly Mayo/Castlebar territory in all fairness. It also has a team (Manaus) in Serie B, playing fixtures against teams up to 3 time zones and thousands of miles away.

So could you realistically have 92 professional clubs playing in nationwide leagues in a country as vast as Brazil ? Absolutely not, in my opinion. Despite being the a very wealthy sport in the wealthiest coutry in the world, for example, American football doesn't even operate on a nationwide league basis in that large country. Like I said, it's easy to have a lot of pro clubs in a small country with a large population.

[Eminence Grise]

Just think of the Amazon jungle as a very big Mayo, though not as wet!

And with as much chance of winning Sam.

[ger121]

Boy, has this thread gone off on a bit of a tangent. LOI —> Amazon Jungle!

[EatYerGreens]

Boy, has this thread gone off on a bit of a tangent. LOI —> Amazon Jungle!

"We're not Bra-zil, we're League of Ireee-land..."

[Nesta99]

LOI > Amazon Jungle!

For strange and wacky creatures!

[pineapple stu]

Boy, has this thread gone off on a bit of a tangent. LOI —> Amazon Jungle!
Ah pre-season.

May it never end :)

[ger121]

Ah pre-season.

May it never end :)

They don’t call it the silly season for nothing PS!

[Rayzor]

Absolutely and very impressive, even if the overall figures are somewhat skewed by the two Old Firm clubs.


Even without the old firm, the attendances in the spl are incredible, Dundee has a population about half the size of the cork metro region and it's 2 clubs combined are averaging around 17500 this season, Aberdeen 17800 and the Edinburgh clubs combined over 35000. Celtic 59000, Rangers 48000, absolutely fantastic for a country of 5 .5 million.