Republic of Ireland v England - Saturday, 7th September 2024 - UEFA Nations League

[texidub]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13822579/Lee-Carsley-sacked-FA-refusal-sing-national-anthem-Jeff-Powell.html

Parody?

Jayzus: "His answer to the Irish question has told us where his heart belongs - on the Emerald Isle" It's like something from the 80s.

[Olé Olé]

Will we stick with wing backs? Or back 4?

I could see a 4-5-1 and wouldn't complain with something like

Kelleher
Coleman Collins O'Shea Scales
Ogbene Browne Smallbone/Molumby Szmodics Knight
Idah/Ferguson

I would be hesitant to start Molumby. Start him and watch him get an early card...

[Eirambler]

Reading the Carsley quotes here:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/sep/06/lee-carsley-will-not-sing-englands-national-anthem-before-first-game?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

His not singing the anthem has nothing to do with his dual nationality from my reading. He says he never sings a national anthem because he reckons he would lose focus by doing so.

You're right, but it doesn't matter. Once he said he wasn't going to sing the anthem he had screwed up, the reasons why would always be instantly irrelevant.

Yes the reports and analysis are like something from the 1980s, but that is where the English right wing press reside. What you need to remember is that the Mail, Express and Telegraph aren't so much stuck in the 80s as they are actually pining for it on a daily basis.

I obviously don't buy or read any of those papers but I do follow a BBC journalist on twitter called Neil Henderson who posts the front and back pages of all the following day's main English papers the night before. It's honestly hilarious looking at the headlines. I always feel it must be exhausting being an avid reader of one of these papers, being told to be OUTRAGED about something different every day. Today it's Carsley and once they make up their mind on someone it's hard to turn it around.

Hard but not impossible. I read an article on the BBC website recently explaining how middle Britain didn't really like Andy Murray at all up until he won them an Olympic gold medal in London. After that he was a hero, of course. His crime before that was that, despite representing Britain, he was proudly Scottish. Mental stuff.

[John83]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13822579/Lee-Carsley-sacked-FA-refusal-sing-national-anthem-Jeff-Powell.html

Parody?
I'm not clicking on a Daily Hate link, but Jeff Powell is usually beyond parody.

[liamoo11]

Interesting to see Carsley filling up the English back pages, and incredibly some of the front pages too, by saying he won't sing the English anthem. Should be irrelevant of course, but unlikely to appeal to the neanderthals that make up a fair amount of their core support.

You have to admire him. I'd be applauding him today when he comes out

[Eirambler]

You can read the first few paragraphs of it here without clicking into the Daily Mail site, and also view the quite funny photo of Carsley not singing at an Under 21 game that goes with it.

https://x.com/paulrowantree/status/1832338883951898641?t=DmaAZYWGSDF0IjiTXGgwHQ&s=19

[liamoo11]

The 1880s

[Olé Olé]

You can read the first few paragraphs of it here without clicking into the Daily Mail site, and also view the quite funny photo of Carsley not singing at an Under 21 game that goes with it.

https://x.com/paulrowantree/status/1832338883951898641?t=DmaAZYWGSDF0IjiTXGgwHQ&s=19

Whilst former Irish underage international Tim Dittmer does sing it in the same photo.

[JR89]

I think 541 rather than 451. Think just because it's England in his first game he'll be overly pragmatic. Go 541 and then switch to 451 against Greece.

Think 541 it covers Coleman for not needing to be busting up and down the pitch as much because he'll have Ogbene ahead of him and England have no actual LBs on in the squad.

Same way we set up against France.

[texidub]

Funny, I just watched the highlights of the France game a few minutes ago. Bazunu was great that night. Ogbene really good too. We had our moments but had a lot of defending to do and got v little out of midfield. Can see why packing the defense today is likely. Would be happy with a similar level of performance as the France match.

[tetsujin1979]

I'm not clicking on a Daily Hate link, but Jeff Powell is usually beyond parody.
There's an informal rule that we don't link to the paper, or the redtop. You know which one.

[Eminence Grise]

I know boxers can get a bit, y'know, after a few punches too many to the head, but I didn't think boxing journalists could catch it. Jeff Powell MBE (of course he is!) clearly a lesson to us all to look after the noggin a bit better...

Feeling nervous rather than resigned about an Ireland game for the first time in a long time, pre-Kenny to be honest. A win would be unimaginable, a draw good, a gutsy performance a must.



On the other hand, he didn't really express much excitement about the players. I like realists, but the psychological aspect of sport requires a smidgin of enthusiasm. ...

He seems very laid back

TBH, I don't like it when my dentist is enthusiastic. I much rather hear her say 'you're just going to feel a little discomfort now' when inside she's probably thinking Blood! Buckets of Blood! Pain!!:eek:

[Supreme feet]

Just want to see a bit of fortitude today. Balls. A bit of aggression, bravery, resilience, a willingness to physically dominate and win duels. A threat from set-pieces (have a feeling Brady will start at LB for the frees if nothing else, all the LB candidates are liabilities in some respect). We need to be horrible to play against.

I'd pick this team:

Kelleher
Coleman - Collins - O'Shea - Brady
Molumby - Browne
Ogbene - Knight - Szmodics
Parrott

Reverting to a 4-4-2 out of possession when needed, with Knight on the left to help Brady, with Szmodics and Parrott up front. Idah might get in ahead of Parrott for his hold-up play. Ferguson surely can't be fit. Smallbone isn't suited to the horrible bástard type of game that we'll need to play today.

[Eirambler]

Player fitness isn't going to help us here - a lot of lads have had slow starts to the season. O'Brien, Omobamidele and Ferguson are in Premier League squads but haven't been playing. Are they match sharp? Kelleher as well obviously but he'll have to play. Idah hasn't looked fully match fit playing for Celtic. Makes it very hard to predict a team. Not to mention that we don't really know who's picking it. A lot might depend on how training has gone during the week.

I just want to see a lot of heart and a bit of pragmatism for this one really.

[pineapple stu]

1832429869122383998
A new era dawns as Brady, Doherty and Coleman all start. I presume that's four at the back and Brady/Ogbene on the wings? (Sorry - missed Collins at the end there)

Match programmes a tenner I see - that's also mental

Let's see how it goes...

[Supreme feet]

Kelleher

Doherty - Coleman - Collins - O'Shea - Brady

Ogbene - Molumby - Smallbone - Szmodics

Idah

Very light in the centre of midfield

[passinginterest]

I'd say there's a slim possibility of 4-5-1, can't see a 4-4-2 happening, most likely it'll be 5-4-1 or 5-2-3 if you want to put an attacking spin on it! I think it'll be;

Kelleher
Coleman
O'Shea
Collins
Scales
Brady

Smallbone
Molumby

Ogbene
Szmodics

Idah

Possibly Knight or Bowne over Szmodics. Browne if he really wants to get bigger physical players on the field. Might also give O'Brien a chance to come in at centre back and move Scales to the left. I do think Heimir might just focus on getting as many big lads as possible on the field.

One of my better predictions! I don’t really like Coleman as part of the back three. I don’t really like the shape either. But I think that’s O’Shea’s team for the most part ans we won’t see a real Hymer team until the next window.

[Olé Olé]

1832429869122383998
A new era dawns as Brady, Doherty and Coleman all start.

Match programmes a tenner I see - that's also mental

Let's see how it goes...

Disappointed for Scales but I assume they want Coleman in there and he may not have the legs for wing back. However, Brady may not either...

Concerned we could be overrun in midfield but Szmodics likely to tuck in. We could end up a little imbalanced in that case depending on where Ogbene covers. Does he cover Brady? Haven't seen him play on the left much (or ever).

It's an awkward looking and old side for me and it has me worried.

[Eirambler]

Well that's demoralising. Reads like a John O'Shea team - under resourced in midfield, how many of the old boys can he squeeze into the back five etc.

Safe to say Hallgrimsson hasn't watched too many of our games in recent years back in too much detail. He'd have learnt that Coleman is no centre back for starters. Like the amount of centre backs we have and managers keep trying to shoehorn 5 foot 10 inch Seamus Coleman in there, it defies all reason.

[Olé Olé]

Kelleher

Doherty - Coleman - Collins - O'Shea - Brady

Ogbene - Molumby - Smallbone - Szmodics

Idah

Very light in the centre of midfield

Incredibly light and it's not like someone can step in from the back three because Coleman isn't a centre half. And if Szmodics drifts inwards then Robbie Brady is exposed.

I can't figure this out.

[pineapple stu]

Meanwhile, Rice and Grealish both start for England

1832430891265647056

[passinginterest]

Slight possibility it’s a back 4. With Doherty and Ogbene wide in a midfield 5. Szmodics tucked in behind Idah as an attacking midfield pivot.

But we all know it’s not.

[Eirambler]

There's probably a way you could mould that selection into a 4-3-3 with Doherty at left back and Brady further forward and it would actually be a better team that way. I mean that isn't what it will be, it will be three centre backs including Coleman, but how bad is it that that isn't even the best way you could put that particularly 11 on the park?!

[passinginterest]

Some set of turkey teeth on Dara O’Shea. No idea what people see in getting them!

[Razors left peg]

This reads like a JOS team. Incredibly disappointed that we've yet to see that Hallgrimsson is actually the manager and not window dressing for O'Shea.

Hopefully it looks better in the game

[tetsujin1979]

Team stats
https://www.instagram.com/p/C_nuFjPo1ji

[elatedscum]

Not sure about the team. Like I’ve thought about it a lot and not really sure what to do…

4-3-3 and 4-4-2, I’d be worried how Saka and Gordon can get at our full backs and I think there’s a big mismatch there. So I can see 5 at the back.

But 5-2-3 were gonna get overrun in midfield.

So then 5-3-2 but then what do you do with Ogbene. I guess you play Ogbene at RWB I guess which maybe doesn’t get the best of him.

Scared and optimistic I guess…

[pineapple stu]

Well that was fun while it lasted

Kelleher should maybe have let Gordon score and save us from having Rice do it...

[passinginterest]

This is going to be painful. High energy start which we’ve seen plenty under Kenny. If anything shape and organisation looks no better. Going to find it hard to keep up the tempo in the heat and England look like opening us up at will as this goes on.

[ger121]

I think we can score but with that back 4 that feels like a 2016 reunion, the English could get 3 or 4.

[Eminence Grise]

Oh FFS. I want to puke.

[pineapple stu]

"2-0 to the Irish boys" coming from the away end

That's funny in fairness

[Jolly Red Giant]

Coleman is too old and too slow - Idah is doing nothing

[TonyD]

"2-0 to the Irish boys" coming from the away end

That's funny in fairness

Didn’t make that out, but yeah, quite funny. Very easy for England.

[Razors left peg]

Hope all the clowns who wanted back to basics, put em under pressure, launch it long and all that crap are happy.

20% possession, they laughing at us... fcukin disgusting performance and attempt at a set up

[texidub]

Coleman too slow. Szmodics feels like a luxury as he's not doing much defensively. Idah flat. Smallbone looking lightweight. Ogbene with a few good moments and a few sloppy ones. Meh.

[elatedscum]

Glad to see back to basics and defensively solid and all that is working so well.

Pretty much all my fears have come true. Midfield overrun, Coleman ending up in 1v1s with Gordon all the time, no pressure on the ball, just aimlessly pinging it long and England are winning all the 50/50s. Idah getting nothing from the ref and feeding on scraps and doing poorly at that.

Ogbene needs to have a quick strike on the rebound from Szmodics. Maybe if that or the Molumby header go in, it’s a different game - but Jesus this is depressing

[liamoo11]

Didn’t make that out, but yeah, quite funny. Very easy for England.

Surely we switch to 442 now. Absolutely overrun through the middle. Take off ogbene and doherty and idah for Knight and browne and ferguson please. Smallbone and molumby have done their best up against 4. The lack of quality out of ogbene is horrifying. Was it 20 yards he overhit that cross when he was away down the left?

[ger121]

Hallgrimsson is what you get when you order Trap from Wish.

[Eirambler]

Yeah, a fairly predictable half time outcome given the team selection and tactical setup. It was obvious where we could be got at on both flanks and England duly obliged. Meanwhile only having two in midfield means they can waltz through us and pick their passes with time in hand.

The England games were never what we were going to be judged on in this group, but Hallgrimsson needs to get a handle on things fairly quickly now and take over from a man who clearly doesn't know what he's doing. I mean Brady is so far from being an international quality footballer, never mind an international quality defender, that it's embarrassing watching him out there. Coleman's role I'm afraid needs to be in the dressing room and off the bench against this level of opposition, he just doesn't have the gas to start against England - and of course he's not a centre back either.

We obviously, obviously need to get another body into the centre of midfield, even just to disrupt England in possession. Once again plainly obvious before kick-off - quite a few on here pointed it out. But alas, John was allowed to pick the team again...

[liamoo11]

Coleman too slow. Szmodics feels like a luxury as he's not doing much defensively. Idah flat. Smallbone looking lightweight. Ogbene with a few good moments and a few sloppy ones. Meh.

I'm sitting high up on ogbene s side here what good moments did he have? First few minutes completely free totally mi****s cross from great position. Doesn't put doherty in on the break then loops a nothing cross behind idah for a nothing header. What's he doing off the rebound shot? That comical effort at a cross off the left near the end. No helping back with grealishnor gordon absolutely no sense of whats goingnon around him. Pitiful

[texidub]

His good moments were in using his space and physicality to create opportunities... unfortunately the bad moments came quickly after.

[pineapple stu]

I mean Brady is so far from being an international quality footballer, never mind an international quality defender, that it's embarrassing watching him out there. Coleman's role I'm afraid needs to be in the dressing room and off the bench against this level of opposition,
I think it's easy to say that but what options do we have?

We trotted out a few a week or two ago and they were all uninspiring. Mostly playing a division below Brady and two below Coleman.

We won't get better throwing in Roughan and Adaramola.

That said I am disappointed at how little of a new plan I can see here. I'm not altogether sure how this performance gets a result on Tuesday

[liamoo11]

His good moments were in using his space and physicality to create opportunities... unfortunately the bad moments came quickly after.

He created nothing.

[Eirambler]

I think it's easy to say that but what options do we have?

We trotted out a few a week or two ago and they were all uninspiring. Mostly playing a division below Brady and two below Coleman.

We won't get better throwing in Roughan and Adaramola.

That said I am disappointed at how little of a new plan I can see here. I'm not altogether sure how this performance gets a result on Tuesday

Flat back four, pack the midfield, O'Shea at left back where he has played before and has the pace to hold his own. Only need one off the striker, probably Ogbene off Szmodics, Idah is pointless up there, a waste of a man. We'll get nowhere with wing backs who can't defend and are as slow as a wet week in January.

[pineapple stu]

I think changing to a flat back four is the least of our problems here.

We're utterly outclassed and moving someone from centre back to centre mid, and putting someone who doesn't usually play fullback there to fill a gap isn't going to change the core issue

God help us when Brady/Doherty/Coleman retire unless someone comes through and quickly

Edit - and on that note, Coleman goes off injured. Him and Doherty replaced by O'Brien and Knight. How's this work?

[placid casual]

Let's hope this catastrophic showing will prove to HH that quite a number of these Irish players are just not international standard. It's probably a bit of a wake up call for him anyway,he's probably already pining for Jamaica!!:)
Scales and O'Brien should be playing for a start, Doherty,Smallbone,Maloumby and Brady shouldn't even be in the squad ffs

[placid casual]

It's probably also worth pointing out that, despite what people may think, the english are a good side,they've been knocking on the door of international silverware for a few years now

[passinginterest]

Could play the rest of this in the phoenix park because it’s about that standard of a kick about at this stage. The English lads have stopped playing and we still can’t land a glove on them.

[Eirambler]

I think changing to a flat back four is the least of our problems here.

We're utterly outclassed and moving someone from centre back to centre mid, and putting someone who doesn't usually play fullback there to fill a gap isn't going to change the core issue

God help us when Brady/Doherty/Coleman retire unless someone comes through and quickly

Edit - and on that note, Coleman goes off injured. Him and Doherty replaced by O'Brien and Knight. How's this work?

That doesn't really make sense though, if we're not going to address the reasons why we're being outclassed then there's really no point having any management at all, you might as well just let Marc Canham pick the team.

Look, we all know England are better than us, but the reason we were so far outclassed in that first half is because the setup was utterly mental.

We had a defender too many and a forward too many, resulting in us being completely overwhelmed in midfield. This then allowed England all the time they needed on the ball to pick the right passes to expose our weaknesses on the flanks.

So, of course putting another man, maybe another two men in the middle is going to make a difference. When you have one additional central defender who is superfluous and isn't able to play the position anyway and a forward who isn't holding any ball, isn't adding anything to defence out of possession, isn't doing anything really, then removing them for extra in midfield is the obvious first step to changing things.

Already losing the slowness of Coleman and Doherty and getting another runner in midfield in Knight and some more pace at the back is helping a bit. It's still not the right setup, but it's better than it was.