Republic of Ireland v England - Saturday, 7th September 2024 - UEFA Nations League

[Razors left peg]

Squad is going to be announced this week for Hallgrimssons first 2 games. What are we hoping for, or expecting? Will it be basically the same as O'Sheas recent squads or will he see anything in other players who might break in?

Jack Taylor for example, I hope is included and I think he can offer us something we are missing in midfield. Getting game time in the Premiership has to boost his chances.

I hope we have moved on from Shane Duffy, but the fact that he's starting for Norwich I think he might keep his place if JOS has his say, and I fear that McClean might get a call too based on O'Sheas previous comments.

Ferguson won't be fit in time. I've watched Parrotts start to the season with AZ and even though he hasn't scored he's been very good. I think he has a great chance of starting, alongside Szmodics.

Nice to have some games to focus on again, even if I'm dreading the England game. The Greek game will be a good early barometer of any improvements we might make under Hallgrimsson

[Eirambler]

I'm not expecting he squad announcement to be especially interesting given that O'Shea is effectively picking it this time. But then how interesting would it be anyway, there aren't exactly loads of players knocking on the door to come in right now?

If Kasey McAteer has declared for us as widely reported then I'd expect him to be involved this time, he's fit and getting some Premier League game time at Leicester.

Azaz and Cannon are two players who can be formally tied to us with a Nations League appearance, so hopefully they're both in.

Taylor as mentioned is worth a call up, it looks like Cullen will be out which frees a space for him.

Would like to see McGuinness involved but might be tough to fit him in once again.

But these are mainly dual nationals around the fringes of the squad, the bulk of it will be as you were. It's likely that the team and formations picked will be more interesting than the squad selection this time around.

[CraftyToePoke]

Along with the above, Dunne has started the season playing RB for QPR and he's playing well there but the usual aging suspects will more than likely be rounded up again despite needing to solve the full back positions pretty soon.

Taylor should have been involved before now IMO.

There's two games & a new manager with that bit of early days breathing room so I'd like a big squad & everyone on the fringes to get a shake in training at least, see what they have with HH to make his own mind up next time round.

[Eirambler]

Do we think John O'Shea knows that Dunne is a right back these days? Is he even aware of him at all?! I'd be amazed if he's called up.

Sticking with QPR, Jake Clarke-Salter is on Wolves short list and could yet be a Premier League player by the end of the week. He's eligible but I'm not sure what his passport situation is currently (although watching Celebrity Race Across the World this week it feels like every second Brit has an Irish passport these days!)

[elatedscum]

Do we think John O'Shea knows that Dunne is a right back these days? Is he even aware of him at all?! I'd be amazed if he's called up.

Didn’t Kerr say he’d been sent by O’Shea to look at him play against West Brom last season? Vaguely remember watching a game on Virgin or Premier where he name checked him.

I’ve only seen two full games of Jimmy playing that position for QPR but he still looked like a good centre half playing the position to me…

I guess Jimmy could technically play for the north if he wanted to

[elatedscum]

Goalkeepers:

1. Kelleher
2. Travers
3. O’Leary

Right backs:

1. Doherty
2. Coleman (Gallagher if injured, no idea if he’s good enough but looks good in MLS and we’ll never know if we don’t see him train at least)

Centre backs:

1. Collins
2. O’Shea
3. O’Brien
4. Scales
5. Duffy/McGuinness/Omobamidele/Clarke-Salter (take your pick, argument could be made for any one)

Left back

1. Brady
2. Manning

Centre midfielders:

1. Cullen (Connell if injured or maybe Lawal if he plays - yet to play for Stoke)
2. Molumby
3. Smallbone
4. Taylor

Attacking midfielders:

1. Knight
2. Azaz
3. McGrath
4. Browne/Ronan/Sykes (Browne the obvious choice but not starting for Sunderland, and have always had a soft spot for Ronan, Sykes the alt if A and B don’t work)

Wingers:

1. Szmodics
2. Ogbene
3. Johnston
4. Harness/McAteer (call both up if you want)

Strikers:

1. Ferguson (Obafemi if injured - I know the issues with Michael but when he turns it on, he’s unplayable)
2. Idah
3. Parrott
4. Cannon (hasn’t played but thought he was bright on his debut and sensible management has him called up)

[Predator]

All the indications from HH are that he will be implementing a pragmatic approach that prioritises defensive solidity, but I don't think that will mean major changes to the squad selection. Players who are getting regular games will definitely be in the squad and will be in a better position to start, because we simply cannot afford to be carrying players who are not match fit in a game against England. It's a concern that Seamus Coleman hasn't played a game yet and is apparently carrying a calf injury, so that means Doherty will probably start at RB, but Jimmy Dunne in that role, given his start to the season, would be interesting. Collins, O'Shea and Scales have all been playing regularly and well at the start of the season, as has Duffy (in a ball-playing Norwich team, no less (https://x.com/NorwichCityFC/status/1827411312185360438)). I think Robbie Brady would be the starting LB, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Scales tried out there. I imagine we'll end up going with a sort of 4-4-2/4-5-1 with Szmodics and Idah up top.

[Stuttgart88]

I’m more positive about Scales here than most but I’d be reluctant to play him left back. I just don’t think he looks comfortable there at this level.

Parrott seems to be playing himself into contention.

[pineapple stu]

I'm not expecting he squad announcement to be especially interesting given that O'Shea is effectively picking it this time. But then how interesting would it be anyway, there aren't exactly loads of players knocking on the door to come in right now?
I think that's fair alright - I'm more interested to see how we change on the pitch rather than in the squad for the moment.

Albeit that England (under new management) is a bugger of a game to be trying new things out in.

[Acornvilla]

I reckon we could lose 3/4-0 to England and learn nothing, I wouldn't hold it against HH by any means. Even if we had a dogged performance and lost 1-0, it would just be what we often do in big games. it'll be all down to how Greece and then Finland goes before I allow myself to begin to form any sorts of opinions. Definitely going to be far more interested in setup than selections and the wider squad for the NL.

[elatedscum]

I would also love HH to have conversations with Liam Delap, Dennis Cirkin, Jack McGlynn (pretty sure that ship has sailed by no harm in one last roll of the dice) for the senior team. There's presumably a few others, we had no idea about McAteer before that was announced...

Someone should be approaching Louie Barry, not sure whether that's Crawford or HH - as it's be as a 21. Would be no harm to also have some dialogue with Jobe Bellingham, don't think there's any chance he switches now, but there's no harm in an overture for a few years down the line. I'd also be having mature conversations with Francis Turley and Kieron Morrison, obviously the one switch stuff leaves them both in a bad space, but equally they're probably both going to be capped in the next 12 month if a conversation isn't had...

[Razors left peg]

I would also love HH to have conversations with Liam Delap, Dennis Cirkin, Jack McGlynn (pretty sure that ship has sailed by no harm in one last roll of the dice) for the senior team. There's presumably a few others, we had no idea about McAteer before that was announced...

Someone should be approaching Louie Barry, not sure whether that's Crawford or HH - as it's be as a 21. Would be no harm to also have some dialogue with Jobe Bellingham, don't think there's any chance he switches now, but there's no harm in an overture for a few years down the line. I'd also be having mature conversations with Francis Turley and Kieron Morrison, obviously the one switch stuff leaves them both in a bad space, but equally they're probably both going to be capped in the next 12 month if a conversation isn't had...

Cirkin is the one we most need in the short term. I wouldnt expect any new dual eligible players involved in this squad but hopefully he has conversations soon

[Acornvilla]

I will definitely take a punt on anyone who can give left back a go at this stage. We've had far too many failed experiments. I had hoped Scales could give it a go given his former life at LWB, but playing on the left of a central 2/3 is probably more suited to him at this level. Himself or Dara O' Shea, and just playing more conservatively from that position is probably preferable to any of O' Dowda, Brady or McClean for starters. Doherty is probably who I'd shoehorn in there otherwise because he can be excellent and positionally flexible when fit and on form, but is he fit and on form now? I have no idea.

[Razors left peg]

Alex Murphy was on the bench for Newcastle this weekend having come back from injury. Is he worth promoting prematurely given our issues at left back?

[Acornvilla]

I think he needs to play some football to see what his actual level is. Very promising, but I'd hope he went on loan for a year and got a really extended consistent run of games. Newcastle are weird thou, rich, but because of FFP a kind of thin squad, maybe he'll get more opportunities than I think. I'd be wary of throwing him in with so little senior football in the last couple of years, after seeing how so many other former u21 stars struggled with the step up, they really need to be standouts to risk that.

[Eirambler]

Jack McGlynn was mentioned above but he's fully ineligible now, having played for the US at the Olympics.

[Razors left peg]

I think he needs to play some football to see what his actual level is. Very promising, but I'd hope he went on loan for a year and got a really extended consistent run of games. Newcastle are weird thou, rich, but because of FFP a kind of thin squad, maybe he'll get more opportunities than I think. I'd be wary of throwing him in with so little senior football in the last couple of years, after seeing how so many other former u21 stars struggled with the step up, they really need to be standouts to risk that.

Theres no actual argument that can be legitimately made to say Murphy should definitely get a call up, but in the position where we are lacking probably the most the fact that hes even getting near that Newcastle first team given their resources is something! It would absolutely be too early for a call up in normal terms, but others have played players before they've made first team for their clubs. Bradley is probably the best recent example.

Id rather call up Murphy than go back to McClean for example.

[Eirambler]

Josh Key is maybe another who should be in the squad discussion given our struggles at full back, he's starting for Swansea every week at the moment and covers both sides of the defence. Again I doubt we'll see him in this squad though.

[Acornvilla]

Theres no actual argument that can be legitimately made to say Murphy should definitely get a call up, but in the position where we are lacking probably the most the fact that hes even getting near that Newcastle first team given their resources is something! It would absolutely be too early for a call up in normal terms, but others have played players before they've made first team for their clubs. Bradley is probably the best recent example.

Id rather call up Murphy than go back to McClean for example.

Ah yeah, as much as I appreciate some things Jimmy brought to Ireland, he should never be called up again. I also love Robbie Brady but feel the same. James especially was at fault, or at least multiple really important goals came from his wing multiple times during the Kenny reign, it was clear Kenny was trying to find a way to phase him out, but kept going back because everyone else was even worse. I think it has been the major issue for the squad, even ahead of midfield for so long, I can't remember when it wasn't. Maybe back to before Enda Stevens was always injured, but I also feel like we didn't necessarily see the best of him.

[pineapple stu]

Joel Bagan played for Cardiff last week for the first time in two years; came on as a sub for O'Dowda. Granted, they lost 5-0...

He was with Zulte Waregem in the Belgian second tier last year and played a lot more in the first half of the year than in the second, which isn't a great sign.

Still, when needs must...

[Acornvilla]

Joel Bagan played for Cardiff last week for the first time in two years. Granted, they lost 5-0...

He was with Zulte Waregem in the Belgian second tier last year and played a lot more in the first half of the year than in the second, which isn't a great sign.

Still, when needs must...
Remember that magical week, where he scored I think 3 games in a row? It's wild how far off the radar people can go so quickly.

[Razors left peg]

Anselmo Garcia McNulty is another that could be considered for left back. Hes has started all 3 games for Zwolle in the Dutch top flight so far this season. He has been playing as a left sided centerback. They have lost all 3 games so far and his average rating on the score tracker apps arent great, but again it a postion where we might have to think outside the box a bit

[Razors left peg]

Sean Roughan got in the L1 team of the week, ( along with Sam Curtis). Dont like picking L1 players, but definitely worth keeping an eye on

[liamoo11]

I reckon we could lose 3/4-0 to England and learn nothing, I wouldn't hold it against HH by any means. Even if we had a dogged performance and lost 1-0, it would just be what we often do in big games. it'll be all down to how Greece and then Finland goes before I allow myself to begin to form any sorts of opinions. Definitely going to be far more interested in setup than selections and the wider squad for the NL.

Our performance against England under Kenny was so spirituals and rudderless , truely heartbreaking type of showing

[elatedscum]

Murphy would want to get into the 21s team first. He was fourth choice at left back behind Roughan, Adaramola and Furlong. Probably should be ahead of Furlong but it took Palace refusing to release Adaramola (and Grehan and Phillips) for the June games for him to make his 21s debut

[Razors left peg]

Murphy would want to get into the 21s team first. He was fourth choice at left back behind Roughan, Adaramola and Furlong. Probably should be ahead of Furlong but it took Palace refusing to release Adaramola (and Grehan and Phillips) for the June games for him to make his 21s debut

Crawford was picking Johnny Kenny ahead of better strikers until recently so I wouldnt pay too attention to the U21 pecking order tbh

[Acornvilla]

Our performance against England under Kenny was so spirituals and rudderless , truely heartbreaking type of showing
ok, cool I guess

[Acornvilla]

After this brainstorming session I'm not feeling any better about left back, lads :D

Good luck to whoever spends the evening chasing Saka.

[SkStu]

Alex Murphy was on the bench for Newcastle this weekend having come back from injury. Is he worth promoting prematurely given our issues at left back?

I think so. I've been saying the same since the beginning of last season. Definitely worth fast-tracking or at least bringing in to take a close look.

[Razors left peg]

After this brainstorming session I'm not feeling any better about left back, lads :D

Good luck to whoever spends the evening chasing Saka.

Callum O'Dowda masterclass incoming :)

[SkStu]

Josh Key is maybe another who should be in the squad discussion given our struggles at full back, he's starting for Swansea every week at the moment and covers both sides of the defence. Again I doubt we'll see him in this squad though.

I remember this name being put out there a few months ago. Have to confess i know absolutely nothing about him. What's the scouting report for him?

[SkStu]

The issue around our fullbacks in definitely the priority to resolve but we are very weak in midfield too. Who are the contenders to be the bast@rd that HH wants and that we deserve?

[Razors left peg]

The issue around our fullbacks in definitely the priority to resolve but we are very weak in midfield too. Who are the contenders to be the bast@rd that HH wants and that we deserve?

Molumby is the most likely starter in midfield for that sort b@stard mentality, and to be fair to him he might deserve to start. Hes been playing well by all accounts for West Brom at the start of the season.

[Eirambler]

I remember this name being put out there a few months ago. Have to confess i know absolutely nothing about him. What's the scouting report for him?

Basically he's a fairly athletic full back, he hit the ground running in the Championship last season for Swansea after they signed him. Played both on the right and the left and was really highly regarded. Then he got injured around Christmas and missed a lot of the second half of the season.

Has had a full pre season now and is back in the starting team, but not yet showing last season's form. But it's only been three games. One to keep an eye on basically, his versatility covering both full back positions could be useful if he can get back to last year's form. We won't see him in September but maybe in a future squad.

[Trequartista20]

I believe Key's great-grandfather was captain of the Ireland rugby team.

Agree that's he's worth a thought given our lack of options at fullback. Started all of Swansea's league games so far this season.

[Eminence Grise]

Useless piece of trivia... we've only ever had figurative b@stards play for us. England, on the other hand, had a real one: Segar B@stard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segar_*******), capped once in 1880. He went on to become a referee, which, uniquely, gives him a two-for-one with the old nominative determinism.

Edit: Wikipedia has his page, but this site askerisks his surname, so the link doesn't work. What a bast...;)

[texidub]

Useless piece of trivia... we've only ever had figurative b@stards play for us. England, on the other hand, had a real one: Segar B@stard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segar_*******), capped once in 1880. He went on to become a referee, which, uniquely, gives him a two-for-one with the old nominative determinism.

Wiki says he was a solicitor too. Has to be a hat trick? :D

[Eminence Grise]

May it please the court, m'lud! The dodgy goals committee awards the hat-trick.

[zero]

newcastle v forest in the league cup tomorrow. It will be interesting to see if Murphy gets any game time- I expect maybe not... he doesn't seem to have kicked on since the start of last season where he featured heavily in pre-season. he remains in the first team squad though rather than being loaned out which is both positive in terms of how he is rated and negative in that he isn't seeing game time.

[JR89]

newcastle v forest in the league cup tomorrow. It will be interesting to see if Murphy gets any game time- I expect maybe not... he doesn't seem to have kicked on since the start of last season where he featured heavily in pre-season. he remains in the first team squad though rather than being loaned out which is both positive in terms of how he is rated and negative in that he isn't seeing game time.

Might as Kelly and Burn are the only other available CBs they have. Believe this is his last season before he becomes club trained so can't see Newcastle loaning him out. Last season they could only register 23 players for Europe because of their lack of club trained players.

[JR89]

Sean Roughan got in the L1 team of the week, ( along with Sam Curtis). Dont like picking L1 players, but definitely worth keeping an eye on

Roughan is back playing CB but would be my first choice call up if we were to fast track a LB. Going forward he offers you more than Garcia McNulty plus has a good left foot on him for set pieces.

[Eminence Grise]

Might as Kelly and Burn are the only other available CBs they have. Believe this is his last season before he becomes club trained so can't see Newcastle loaning him out. Last season they could only register 23 players for Europe because of their lack of club trained players.

He'll be club trained whether he's at the club or loaned out. It's the time he's spent contracted to the club that counts.

[Razors left peg]

newcastle v forest in the league cup tomorrow. It will be interesting to see if Murphy gets any game time- I expect maybe not... he doesn't seem to have kicked on since the start of last season where he featured heavily in pre-season. he remains in the first team squad though rather than being loaned out which is both positive in terms of how he is rated and negative in that he isn't seeing game time.
Hes been injured all preseason I think so it's hard judge how involved he might be. If he doesn't play in that game he should Def be looking to go on loan

[John83]

Useless piece of trivia... we've only ever had figurative b@stards play for us. England, on the other hand, had a real one: Segar B@stard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segar_*******), capped once in 1880. He went on to become a referee, which, uniquely, gives him a two-for-one with the old nominative determinism.

Edit: Wikipedia has his page, but this site askerisks his surname, so the link doesn't work. What a bast...;)
https://shorturl.at/gXxQI Here's a working shortcut to the link.

[elatedscum]

He'll be club trained whether he's at the club or loaned out. It's the time he's spent contracted to the club that counts.

It's more complicated for Uefa competitions where you have 4 club trained players and 4 national association players. For club trained players, you need 3 entire seasons between the age of 15 and 21 (not necessarily continuous) registered to the home club (not on loan).

So if you sign at 16, it's easy. But if you sign at 18, there's a limited window, depending on your birth date, you've either got 3 or 4 seasons to work with. This is his 3rd season, meaning he will be home qualified if he doesn't go on loan. Next season, he would be ineligible as he's born on the 25th of June and the cutoff is 1st of July. If he were to go on loan to an English club, then he'd be a national association player but not a club player.

Whereas for the premier league, it's all national association. Still 8 players required but no need for locally trained players...

Troy had the same issue with Spurs, where they didn't let him go on loan in January when he was about 18 cause they didn't want to lose a year towards his club trained eligibility.

[Eirambler]

It's a big problem for Irish players going to England now though, if they choose to join a big club at 18 they might need to wait three years before they go on loan and hardly play any senior football in the mean time. By then they're 21 and that's late to be starting out in senior football.

Probably adds to the argument in favour of going to the continent at 16.

[elatedscum]

Yep - but only to teams that consider themselves European potential teams. That list is probably expanding but you can see that Sheffield United aren’t worried that Curtis will only be homegrown rather than club trained

[elatedscum]

*didnt properly read “big club”*

[JR89]

It's a big problem for Irish players going to England now though, if they choose to join a big club at 18 they might need to wait three years before they go on loan and hardly play any senior football in the mean time. By then they're 21 and that's late to be starting out in senior football.

Probably adds to the argument in favour of going to the continent at 16.

Depends because some clubs would have a few club trained players already. Newcastle had Paul Dummett and one other. They left Dummett leave so might only have one left. I'd say if they had a few they wouldn't mind Murphy just being association trained.

[tetsujin1979]

Squad announcement at 12:30
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