Attendances 2024

[2 Year Contract]

Rovers website saying that the final game v Waterford is now sold out.

There are still east stand tickets on sale for home fans


How many games is that Rovers have sold out since opening the 4th stand? I'd wonder how many could they have sold if capacity wasn't an issue.

One I think. Bohs at home had just over 10k, none of the others have hit that figure yet

[nigel-harps1954]

The following have now been added to FAI Connect.

Longford v Athlone - 5th Oct - 505
Longford v Cobh - 12th Oct - 610
UCD v Longford - 18th Oct - 304
Kerry v Athlone - 18th Oct - 544

Taking Longfords with a tablespoon of salt but at least the First Division is updated through all the way. Just missing Shels v Drogs on 25th Oct.

[joey B]

9522 in Tallaght
3135 in The Brandywell
2030 in Weavers Park
3620 in The Showgrounds

[Shinkicker]

9522 in Tallaght
3135 in The Brandywell
2030 in Weavers Park
3620 in The Showgrounds
Bohs looked to have a full house. It was good to see considering how poor our season was.

[redarmyfaction]

9522 in Tallaght
3135 in The Brandywell
2030 in Weavers Park
3620 in The Showgrounds

Poor crowd in Derry for a team needing it for Europe against the champions elect compared to a dead rubber for the home support in the Showgs in a town one fifth the size of Derry, we need to push on and become the premier club on the Western seaboard.

[brendy_éire]

Poor crowd in Derry for a team needing it for Europe against the champions elect compared to a dead rubber for the home support in the Showgs in a town one fifth the size of Derry, we need to push on and become the premier club on the Western seaboard.

We've a problem in that the ground is mostly ST holders now. Only couple of hundred tickets go on sale for each match.
Every match this season has sold out, I believe. In an ideal world, there would be a facility for ST holders to sell their ticket back to the club, who could then sell it on. We don't have the staff for such a thing though.

Of course, this shouldn't be an issue next year with the new stand.

[LTFC]

The following have now been added to FAI Connect.

Longford v Athlone - 5th Oct - 505
Longford v Cobh - 12th Oct - 610
UCD v Longford - 18th Oct - 304
Kerry v Athlone - 18th Oct - 544

Taking Longfords with a tablespoon of salt but at least the First Division is updated through all the way. Just missing Shels v Drogs on 25th Oct.

Was at both those Longford games, I think I posted 300-350 for Athlone and 450-500 for Cobh.

[LTFC]

Missing:

Shelbourne v Drogheda - 25th Oct
Longford v Athlone - 5th Oct
Longford v Cobh - 12th Oct
UCD v Longford - 18th Oct
Kerry v Athlone - 18th Oct

PREMIER DIVISION

Bohs - 4,243 (4,243 {2023}; 3,209 {2022};2,878{19}; 2,148; 2,006; 1,627; 1,724; 1,395; 1,597; 1,496; 1,488)
Derry - 2,860 (3,336; 3,184; 2,049; 2,297; 1,517; 1,563; 1,124; 1,106; 1,446; 1,460; 2,135)
Drogheda - 2,023 (1,916; 1,941; 721 FD; ; 377 FD; 850; 583 FD; 813; 1,064; 817; 977; 811)
Dundalk - 2,419 (2,636; 2,689; 2,775; 2,738; 2,674; 2,738; 3,158; 2,534; 1,997; 949; 1,355)
Galway - 3,014 (2,018 FD; 2,081 FD; 780 FD; 746 FD; 1,376; 1,169; 1,290; 975 FD)
Pat's - 4,402 (4,232; 3,489; 1,919; 1,621; 1,504; 1,088; 1,321; 1,386; 1,687; 1,474; 1,346)
Rovers - 5,868 (6,109; 5,379; 3,384; 2,749; 2,809; 2,041; 2,890; 2,269; 2,763; 3,127; 3,779)
Shels - 4,262 (3,393; 2,913; 1,071 FD; 654 FD; 496 FD; 554 FD; 596 FD; 713 FD; 1,114; 1,187; 781 FD)
Sligo - 2,813 (2,555; 2,166; 1,995; 1,853; 1,717; 1,750; 1,750; 1,959; 2,342; 3,007; 2,103)
Waterford - 2,733 (1,833 FD; 1,705 FD; 1,496; 2,329; 1,550 FD; 314 FD; 460 FD; 470 FD; 478 FD; 453 FD; 466 FD)

FIRST DIVISION

Athlone - 642 (872; 307; 382; 130; 154; 156; 314; 653 PD; 754; 271; 200)
Bray - 644 (663; 482; 773; 643 PD; 966 PD; 957 PD; 769 PD; 718 PD; 891 PD; 965 PD; 1,121 PD)
Cobh - 731 (1,020; 872; 268; 236; 358; 403; 366; 223; 439; 2008 - 1,122 PD; 681)
Cork - 2,881 (3,666 PD; 3,517; 2,505 PD; 4,245 PD; 4,559 PD; 2,533 PD; 3,263 PD; 3,777 PD; 1,965 PD; 2,786 PD; 2,128)
Harps - 1,023 (1,154; 1,293 PD; 1,154 PD; 708; 1,202 PD; 1,216 PD; 784; 449; 479; 429; 433; 644)
Kerry - 610 (784)
Longford - 413 (679; 500; 610; 449; 342; 488 PD; 803 PD; 567; 379; 365; 315)
Treaty - 1,060 (642; 695)
UCD - 339 (809 PD; 953 PD; 739 PD; 365; 236; 297; 216; 397 PD; 487 PD; 506 PD; 558 PD; 610 PD)
Wexford - 556 (689; 445; 235; 181; 338; 585 PD; 553; 331; 227; 302; 216)

PREMIER AVERAGE: 3,461 (3,289; 2,687; 2,185; 2,170; 1,902; 1,476; 1,681; 1,502; 1,566; 1,630; 1,547)
FIRST DIVISION AVERAGE: 890 (1,035; 1,193; 586; 413; 477; 476; 486; 495; 391; 372; 578)

OVERALL AVERAGE: 2,157 (2,162; 2,051; 1,500; 1,249; 1,387; 1,117; 1,249; 1,160; 1,140; 1,125; 1,110)


OVERALL PREMIER ATTENDANCE: 605,654 (592,093; 486,365; 393,238; 316,515; 376,627; 292,204; 332,805; 297,334)
OVERALL FIRST ATTENDANCE: 160,201 (186,369; 178,000; 79,115; 55,756; 53,461; 52,807; 54,474; 55,408)

OVERALL COMBINED ATTENDANCE: 765,855 (778,462; 664,365; 472,353; 372,271; 430,088; 345,011; 387,279; 352,742)

Nigel, what was the biggest crowd for each Premier Club this season do you know?

[nr637]

Over 22,500 attend final games of the Premier league series!

Can't wait for next year! :embarrassed:

[EatYerGreens]

We've a problem in that the ground is mostly ST holders now. Only couple of hundred tickets go on sale for each match.
Every match this season has sold out, I believe. In an ideal world, there would be a facility for ST holders to sell their ticket back to the club, who could then sell it on. We don't have the staff for such a thing though.

Of course, this shouldn't be an issue next year with the new stand.

Surely there are re-sale sites who would handle this for any club who wanted to (at a fee) ?

[nigel-harps1954]

And official attendance for every game has now been provided.

PREMIER DIVISION

Bohs - 4,241 (4,243 {2023}; 3,209 {2022};2,878{19}; 2,148; 2,006; 1,627; 1,724; 1,395; 1,597; 1,496; 1,488)
Derry - 2,875 (3,336; 3,184; 2,049; 2,297; 1,517; 1,563; 1,124; 1,106; 1,446; 1,460; 2,135)
Drogheda - 2,023 (1,916; 1,941; 721 FD; ; 377 FD; 850; 583 FD; 813; 1,064; 817; 977; 811)
Dundalk - 2,419 (2,636; 2,689; 2,775; 2,738; 2,674; 2,738; 3,158; 2,534; 1,997; 949; 1,355)
Galway - 3,014 (2,018 FD; 2,081 FD; 780 FD; 746 FD; 1,376; 1,169; 1,290; 975 FD)
Pat's - 4,402 (4,232; 3,489; 1,919; 1,621; 1,504; 1,088; 1,321; 1,386; 1,687; 1,474; 1,346)
Rovers - 6,071 (6,109; 5,379; 3,384; 2,749; 2,809; 2,041; 2,890; 2,269; 2,763; 3,127; 3,779)
Shels - 4,262 (3,393; 2,913; 1,071 FD; 654 FD; 496 FD; 554 FD; 596 FD; 713 FD; 1,114; 1,187; 781 FD)
Sligo - 2,858 (2,555; 2,166; 1,995; 1,853; 1,717; 1,750; 1,750; 1,959; 2,342; 3,007; 2,103)
Waterford - 2,733 (1,833 FD; 1,705 FD; 1,496; 2,329; 1,550 FD; 314 FD; 460 FD; 470 FD; 478 FD; 453 FD; 466 FD)

FIRST DIVISION

Athlone - 642 (872; 307; 382; 130; 154; 156; 314; 653 PD; 754; 271; 200)
Bray - 644 (663; 482; 773; 643 PD; 966 PD; 957 PD; 769 PD; 718 PD; 891 PD; 965 PD; 1,121 PD)
Cobh - 731 (1,020; 872; 268; 236; 358; 403; 366; 223; 439; 2008 - 1,122 PD; 681)
Cork - 2,881 (3,666 PD; 3,517; 2,505 PD; 4,245 PD; 4,559 PD; 2,533 PD; 3,263 PD; 3,777 PD; 1,965 PD; 2,786 PD; 2,128)
Harps - 1,023 (1,154; 1,293 PD; 1,154 PD; 708; 1,202 PD; 1,216 PD; 784; 449; 479; 429; 433; 644)
Kerry - 610 (784)
Longford - 450 (679; 500; 610; 449; 342; 488 PD; 803 PD; 567; 379; 365; 315)
Treaty - 1,060 (642; 695)
UCD - 336 (809 PD; 953 PD; 739 PD; 365; 236; 297; 216; 397 PD; 487 PD; 506 PD; 558 PD; 610 PD)
Wexford - 556 (689; 445; 235; 181; 338; 585 PD; 553; 331; 227; 302; 216)

PREMIER AVERAGE: 3,490 (3,289; 2,687; 2,185; 2,170; 1,902; 1,476; 1,681; 1,502; 1,566; 1,630; 1,547)
FIRST DIVISION AVERAGE: 894 (1,035; 1,193; 586; 413; 477; 476; 486; 495; 391; 372; 578)

OVERALL AVERAGE: 2,192 (2,162; 2,051; 1,500; 1,249; 1,387; 1,117; 1,249; 1,160; 1,140; 1,125; 1,110)


OVERALL PREMIER ATTENDANCE: 628,157 (592,093; 486,365; 393,238; 316,515; 376,627; 292,204; 332,805; 297,334)
OVERALL FIRST ATTENDANCE: 160,964 (186,369; 178,000; 79,115; 55,756; 53,461; 52,807; 54,474; 55,408)

OVERALL COMBINED ATTENDANCE: 789,121 (778,462; 664,365; 472,353; 372,271; 430,088; 345,011; 387,279; 352,742)

[nigel-harps1954]

Top attendances Premier:

Shamrock Rovers v Bohemians - 29th March - 10,094
Shamrock Rovers v Waterford - 1st November - 9,522
Shamrock Rovers v Shelbourne - 24th May - 8,276

Top attendances First:

Cork City v Kerry - 16th February - 5,603
Cork City v Wexford - 18th October - 4,268
Cork City v Cobh Ramblers - 5th April - 3,619


Each teams best and worst attendance in Premier Division:

Bohemians:
Best - v Shamrock Rovers - 1st September - 4,436
Worst - v St Pat's - 14th October - 3,761

Derry City:
Best - v Shamrock Rovers - 20th September - 3,382
Worst - v Waterford - 3rd June - 2,084

Drogheda United:
Best - v Shamrock Rovers - 18th October - 2,357
Worst - v Galway United - 23rd September - 1,618

Dundalk:
Best - v Galway United - 23rd February - 3,122
Worst - v Sligo Rovers - 4th March - 1,663

Galway United:
Best - v Sligo Rovers - 25th October - 4,323
Worst - v Drogheda United - 13th June - 1,668

St Pat's Athletic:
Best - v Shamrock Rovers - 4th April & v Bohemians - 28th June - 5,015
Worst - v Drogheda United - 1st September - 3,022

Shamrock Rovers:
Best - v Bohemians - 29th March - 10,094
Worst - v Galway United - 25th August - 3,017

Shelbourne:
Best - Six Separate Games - 4,755 sell out.
Worst - v Waterford - 17th May - 3,586

Sligo Rovers:
Best - v Derry City - 24th February - 4,317
Worst - v Waterford - 3rd May & v Bohemians 17th May - 2,087

Waterford:
Best - v Shelbourne - 16th February - 4,390
Worst - v Drogheda United - 11th October - 2,030

[LTFC]

That is fantastic work Nigel, fair dues.

So if we took the best crowd of each of the top 8, and same for Cork, and Drogs or Bray around the same...with a bit of thought we could get close to 50k attending first 2 rounds of fixtures next season..think its something they should aim at. This would be my take on it.

Waterford V Cork 4.5k
Derry V Rovers - with new stand 4.5k
Bohs v Sligo 4.5k
Galway V Pats 4.5k
Shels V Drogs/Bray 4.5k

Week 2
Rover V Bohs 10K
Cork V Shels 6k
Sligo V Galway 4.5k
St Pats V Waterford 5k
Bray/Drogs V Derry 2.5k

[EalingGreen]

And official attendance for every game has now been provided.
PREMIER AVERAGE: 3,490 (3,289; 2,687; 2,185; 2,170; 1,902; 1,476; 1,681; 1,502; 1,566; 1,630; 1,547)
Even if they've "plateaued" since last season, those figures are impressive when set against where they were a few seasons ago, with future planned stadium upgrades and capacity enlargement at a number of grounds promising further increases, I think?

Meanwhile, it's very curious that IL Premiership crowds have shown almost the exact same percentage growth over the last few seasons, plus a similar plateauing this season from last.

So far this season, the IL Prem is averaging 1,594, which I think stands up well against those in the LOI PD, since ours covers 12 teams (the two bottom placed teams, Carrick and Loughgall, also have the lowest crowds), with no top tier team from our second city (you-know-who :))



FIRST DIVISION AVERAGE: 894 (1,035; 1,193; 586; 413; 477; 476; 486; 495; 391; 372; 578)
The NIFL doesn't publish the figures for our Championship, which is probably not coincidental, since I doubt they're anywhere near those figures.

[LTFC]

Top attendances Premier:

Shamrock Rovers v Bohemians - 29th March - 10,094
Shamrock Rovers v Waterford - 1st November - 9,522
Shamrock Rovers v Shelbourne - 24th May - 8,276

Top attendances First:

Cork City v Kerry - 16th February - 5,603
Cork City v Wexford - 18th October - 4,268
Cork City v Cobh Ramblers - 5th April - 3,619


Each teams best and worst attendance in Premier Division:

Bohemians:
Best - v Shamrock Rovers - 1st September - 4,436
Worst - v St Pat's - 14th October - 3,761

Derry City:
Best - v Shamrock Rovers - 20th September - 3,382
Worst - v Waterford - 3rd June - 2,084

Drogheda United:
Best - v Shamrock Rovers - 18th October - 2,357
Worst - v Galway United - 23rd September - 1,618

Dundalk:
Best - v Galway United - 23rd February - 3,122
Worst - v Sligo Rovers - 4th March - 1,663

Galway United:
Best - v Sligo Rovers - 25th October - 4,323
Worst - v Drogheda United - 13th June - 1,668

St Pat's Athletic:
Best - v Shamrock Rovers - 4th April & v Bohemians - 28th June - 5,015
Worst - v Drogheda United - 1st September - 3,022

Shamrock Rovers:
Best - v Bohemians - 29th March - 10,094
Worst - v Galway United - 25th August - 3,017

Shelbourne:
Best - Six Separate Games - 4,755 sell out.
Worst - v Waterford - 17th May - 3,586

Sligo Rovers:
Best - v Derry City - 24th February - 4,317
Worst - v Waterford - 3rd May & v Bohemians 17th May - 2,087

Waterford:
Best - v Shelbourne - 16th February - 4,390
Worst - v Drogheda United - 11th October - 2,030

PREMIER AVERAGE: 3,490 (3,289; 2,687; 2,185; 2,170; 1,902; 1,476; 1,681; 1,502; 1,566; 1,630; 1,547)

Really is amazing that the smallest crowd of the season at a Premier League game of 1618 is around the average of those last 6 seasons, 2011-2017

[exiled_gufc_fan]

Is there weekend vs Monday averages? Apart from one Monday fixture our other Monday' seemed a lot less.

[nigel-harps1954]

Is there weekend vs Monday averages? Apart from one Monday fixture our other Monday' seemed a lot less.

There would be, but it's way too much effort. Definitely a marked drop for any games outside the 7:45pm Friday slot, or Saturday in Sligos case.

[nr637]

Just on the growth of LOI attendances, I was thinking what are areas where more fans could be attracted to Premier clubs games.

Some teams like Bohs & St. Pats are definitely restricted by their ground capacity when big games are in demand. Bohs are limited with space and could add any where up to another 2000+ to their home game average of over 4,000+ if it was available according to club sources.

Pity the Tramway terraced end could not be open in some way with a restricted amount just like the Ballybough end at Tolka. Likewise Richmond Park with its capacity of about 5,000 always seems to need extra space to facilitate more demand for certain games, but re-development is their only option here.

Shelbourne on the other hand have increased their home attendances by improving areas of Tolka Park within the H & S regulations. If they could now get the West Stand open again they could really offer more improvements to fans.

While Shamrocks have plenty of capacity to help increase their average numbers and now newly promoted Cork City have plenty of space in TC to generate a decent average attendance!

Derry will have a great opportunity now to increase their average with the new North terrace stand available for the new season,

Drogheda are really restricted with ground space.
Sligo have plenty of space but need the Railway end seating to be covered to offer more fans an option.
Galway have options to increase their average while a new stand at the Dyke Road end would be an option.
Waterford have plans to increase capacity at the RSC after agreeing a 50 year contract with Waterford C & CC., covered terracing behind each goal ends is now the more likely option.

If Bray were promoted how best could they improve their average, maybe covering for the open terrace on the Railway seafront side!

Anyone club fans with further insight or ideas ! :confused:

[yurt]

Galway have options to increase their average while a new stand at the Dyke Road end would be an option.

Anyone club fans with further insight or ideas ! :confused:

Capacity of EDP was close to 6k before the 2021 season. Was reduced due to an engineering report suggesting that most of the standing room wasn't safe with the amount of exits from the stadium. Apparently could be possible to bump up the capacity again to closer to 6k with some relatively straightforward work on additional turnstiles.

I doubt the club is in too much of a rush to increase capacity. The 4300 is a perfect size for where we are for next season at least. Selling out a few games a season and the averaging 3k in a 4.5k stadium seems like an ok place to be.

I would be very pleasantly surprised but I really can't see a third stand being built in EDP in the next 20 years.

[redobit]

Sligo have plenty of space but need the Railway end seating to be covered to offer more fans an option.

Anyone club fans with further insight or ideas ! :confused:

Its something Rovers fans have always said about the Railway end, it badly needs covering. On a bad weather evening you can see the attendance fall off, the Treacy stand fills up quick these days and if you dont want to go the Jink (its in poor nick and views are poor) then your are left out in tbe rain on the Railway.

Of course all changed now with the allocation for the redevelopment. First up is to rip up the pitch which will be extended and that means the Jink will be knocked straight away. So putting a roof on the Railway will be required early too. A roof on Railway will help with atmosphere too Id say. Im guessing the Forza lads will go behind the goals and a new roof will help with noise and more fans will koin in with signing. There'd be a fair few older Shed end lads in the Railway who will join in with chants.

Our attendance will drop to max. 3100 ish during construction.

[dundalkfc10]

Its something Rovers fans have always said about the Railway end, it badly needs covering. On a bad weather evening you can see the attendance fall off, the Treacy stand fills up quick these days and if you dont want to go the Jink (its in poor nick and views are poor) then your are left out in tbe rain on the Railway.

Of course all changed now with the allocation for the redevelopment. First up is to rip up the pitch which will be extended and that means the Jink will be knocked straight away. So putting a roof on the Railway will be required early too. A roof on Railway will help with atmosphere too Id say. Im guessing the Forza lads will go behind the goals and a new roof will help with noise and more fans will koin in with signing. There'd be a fair few older Shed end lads in the Railway who will join in with chants.

Our attendance will drop to max. 3100 ish during construction.

Where would the away fans go?

[nr637]

Where would the away fans go?

Of course they will be put into the Jink Stand with its poor nick and views!

[Buller]

Meanwhile, it's very curious that IL Premiership crowds have shown almost the exact same percentage growth over the last few seasons, plus a similar plateauing this season from last.

So far this season, the IL Prem is averaging 1,594, which I think stands up well against those in the LOI PD, since ours covers 12 teams (the two bottom placed teams, Carrick and Loughgall, also have the lowest crowds), with no top tier team from our second city (you-know-who :))



Oh that's interesting. Much of the increase in the LOI has been attributed to national academies and social media that are drastically increasing the reach of clubs into communities. Is there any explanation in the north for the rise?

[EalingGreen]

Oh that's interesting. Much of the increase in the LOI has been attributed to national academies and social media that are drastically increasing the reach of clubs into communities. Is there any explanation in the north for the rise?Not close enough to express a firm opinion. Expect it's a combination? In no particular order:

Post-Covid bounce (though now at an end, hence the current plateau?);
More teams going f-t, meaning they're also professionalising their off-field operations;
More competition at the top (i.e. Linfield not running away with it every year);
Larne FC - currently 1,680 in a town of <20k - a nearly five-fold increase from a few years ago at the bottom of the second tier;
The Northern Ireland Football League (i.e. clubs) taking over the running of the competition from the IFA (like eg Prem Lge in England);
Far better media coverage, both Social but also Mainstream (esp) - most Friday evenings there's a game live on BBC NI, generating extra interest all round;
Reasonably priced tickets;
P&R freshening up the make-up of the Prem (eg Portadown relegated/Loughgall promoted, Warrenpoint down/Newry back up);
Lots of local Derbies - Belfast (obv), East Antrim (Ballymena/Carrick/Larne), Mid-Ulster (Ports/Glenavon/Loughgall/Dungannon);
Better facilities at a couple of clubs.

While I do think the Media coverage is v.important, I freely admit that some of the others may be overstated, even incorrect, but overall I don't think it 's all down to one or two individual reasons.

Meanwhile, a further thought occurs. The population of ROI is x 2.5 that of NI, meaning that on a simple per capita basis (admittedly always dubious), if the IL is getting just over 1,600 average, then the LOI "should" be pulling in an average of 4k.

While the IL Prem is 12 clubs, so that if you excluded Carrick and Loughgall (bottom of the lge and lowest crowds), the average would be 1,780, equating to just under 4.5k for LOI. And that's without a Senior club in our second city, while DCFC further boosts the LOI.

Anyhow, I don't mean to come across as bragging - God knows, the IL has plenty of other problems - but maybe we're not doing so badly after all, at least in some respects?

(And yeah, our Championship crowds are often paltry)

[pineapple stu]

A few attendances from UCD's Youth League run for the record -

UCD v Stjarnan - 376 (maybe 10 away fans)
Stjarnan v UCD - 175 (20 away)
2 Korriku v UCD - 2,080 (free entry to the national stadium; 12 away)
UCD v 2 Korriku - 463 (maybe 5 away)

[EatYerGreens]

Oh that's interesting. Much of the increase in the LOI has been attributed to national academies and social media that are drastically increasing the reach of clubs into communities. Is there any explanation in the north for the rise?

What has annoyed me about the coverage of the least week re Shels' winning the league (which btw was good for the game here IMO) is how many articles have claimed there has been a 'Duffer effect'. That he somehow has single-handedly contributed in a noticeable way to the increase in attendances across the league. Which is just bullsh!t really.

[EatYerGreens]

Meanwhile, a further thought occurs. The population of ROI is x 2.5 that of NI, meaning that on a simple per capita basis (admittedly always dubious), if the IL is getting just over 1,600 average, then the LOI "should" be pulling in an average of 4k.

While the IL Prem is 12 clubs, so that if you excluded Carrick and Loughgall (bottom of the lge and lowest crowds), the average would be 1,780, equating to just under 4.5k for LOI. And that's without a Senior club in our second city, while DCFC further boosts the LOI.

Anyhow, I don't mean to come across as bragging - God knows, the IL has plenty of other problems - but maybe we're not doing so badly after all, at least in some respects?

(And yeah, our Championship crowds are often paltry)

You keep doing this sort of thing. And it's pointless really.

There is no credible comparison between the status of football north and south on the island vis-a-vis population. Firstly because football in the north doesn't have anything like the level of competiiton from other sports that most of the south does. And secondly because the north is also much more urbanised than the south, and footbal is a predominantly urban sport.

You may as well declare that the Irish League appears to be doing well because no team in the USA gets 180,000+ at their soccer games, extrapolated out on the basis of comparative populations :D

[EalingGreen]

You keep doing this sort of thing. And it's pointless really.
Buller asked me for my thoughts on IL crowds.



There is no credible comparison between the status of football north and south on the island vis-a-vis population. Firstly because football in the north doesn't have anything like the level of competiiton from other sports that most of the south does."Anything like"? Unless you have some data, I'm calling that just an opinion, which is not proven.

For one thing, people don't tend to follow just one sport, to the exclusion of all others. While with ROI being rather wealthier than NI, more people have more disposable income to spend on watching games.


And secondly because the north is also much more urbanised than the south, and footbal is a predominantly urban sport.Nonsense. You are confusing Geography and Demographics. For example, most people would say Australia is very sparsely populated, since the country is massive, but has a population of juat 26m. Yet it is actually one of the most urbanised countries in the world, since 86% of the population lives in cities and towns, with the great majority of those in just half a dozen cities on the coast.

Consequently, at close to 2m, the population of the Greater Dublin area alone is almost that of the whole of NI. And while Greater Belfast comprises c.640k, at fewer than 100k people, our second city, Derry, is smaller than Cork, Limerick and Galway.

So that just because ROI has large areas of very sparsely populated countryside, it doesn't also mean that the bulk of the population don't live in urbanised areas. In fact, 62% of the ROI population is urban, while the comparable figure for NI is 65%:
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ireland-population/
https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/ur_main.pdf


You may as well declare that the Irish League appears to be doing well because no team in the USA gets 180,000+ at their soccer games, extrapolated out on the basis of comparative populations :DWhy stop at the USA? Why not use eg India or China if you want to make really fatuous comparisons?

All I'm saying is that for all our other problems and deficiencies etc, IL attendances are actually quite healthy, at least when lined up against those of our nearest, comparable neighbour.

[EatYerGreens]

Buller asked me for my thoughts on IL crowds.

"Anything like"? Unless you have some data, I'm calling that just an opinion, which is not proven.

For one thing, people don't tend to follow just one sport, to the exclusion of all others. While with ROI being rather wealthier than NI, more people have more disposable income to spend on watching games.

Nonsense. You are confusing Geography and Demographics. For example, most people would say Australia is very sparsely populated, since the country is massive, but has a population of juat 26m. Yet it is actually one of the most urbanised countries in the world, since 86% of the population lives in cities and towns, with the great majority of those in just half a dozen cities on the coast.

Consequently, at close to 2m, the population of the Greater Dublin area alone is almost that of the whole of NI. And while Greater Belfast comprises c.640k, at fewer than 100k people, our second city, Derry, is smaller than Cork, Limerick and Galway.

So that just because ROI has large areas of very sparsely populated countryside, it doesn't also mean that the bulk of the population don't live in urbanised areas. In fact, 62% of the ROI population is urban, while the comparable figure for NI is 65%:
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ireland-population/
https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/ur_main.pdf

Why stop at the USA? Why not use eg India or China if you want to make really fatuous comparisons?

All I'm saying is that for all our other problems and deficiencies etc, IL attendances are actually quite healthy, at least when lined up against those of our nearest, comparable neighbour.

If you are seriously refuting the fact that there is more competiiton from GAA in the south - particulary in certain counties - than there is in NI, then there is no point even having this discussion with you. And that's before we get onto the strength of rugby in places like Limerick. And even in Galway, where it isn't uncommon to have Connacht and Galway United matches clashing.

Sure keep giving us all the condascending lectures anyway. #Nordsplaining

[ForeForeToo]

Not close enough to express a firm opinion. Expect it's a combination? In no particular order:

Post-Covid bounce (though now at an end, hence the current plateau?);
More teams going f-t, meaning they're also professionalising their off-field operations;
More competition at the top (i.e. Linfield not running away with it every year);
Larne FC - currently 1,680 in a town of <20k - a nearly five-fold increase from a few years ago at the bottom of the second tier;
The Northern Ireland Football League (i.e. clubs) taking over the running of the competition from the IFA (like eg Prem Lge in England);
Far better media coverage, both Social but also Mainstream (esp) - most Friday evenings there's a game live on BBC NI, generating extra interest all round;
Reasonably priced tickets;
P&R freshening up the make-up of the Prem (eg Portadown relegated/Loughgall promoted, Warrenpoint down/Newry back up);
Lots of local Derbies - Belfast (obv), East Antrim (Ballymena/Carrick/Larne), Mid-Ulster (Ports/Glenavon/Loughgall/Dungannon);
Better facilities at a couple of clubs.

While I do think the Media coverage is v.important, I freely admit that some of the others may be overstated, even incorrect, but overall I don't think it 's all down to one or two individual reasons.

Meanwhile, a further thought occurs. The population of ROI is x 2.5 that of NI, meaning that on a simple per capita basis (admittedly always dubious), if the IL is getting just over 1,600 average, then the LOI "should" be pulling in an average of 4k.

While the IL Prem is 12 clubs, so that if you excluded Carrick and Loughgall (bottom of the lge and lowest crowds), the average would be 1,780, equating to just under 4.5k for LOI. And that's without a Senior club in our second city, while DCFC further boosts the LOI.

Anyhow, I don't mean to come across as bragging - God knows, the IL has plenty of other problems - but maybe we're not doing so badly after all, at least in some respects?

(And yeah, our Championship crowds are often paltry)

I have been a long time lurker on this site before becoming a registered user. I have come to the conclusion that you exist on here to simply argue that the IL stacks up to thee LOI. You appear to have a gripe with the LOI bring a better league. Almost a fear of this being the case. I could not care about populations or where people live. The LOI is a better league. Statistics can be presented to bolster any opinion. The quality of football on the pitch and numbers in the stands cannot be argued with. The IL is inferior.

[redarmyfaction]

I have been a long time lurker on this site before becoming a registered user. I have come to the conclusion that you exist on here to simply argue that the IL stacks up to thee LOI. You appear to have a gripe with the LOI bring a better league. Almost a fear of this being the case. I could not care about populations or where people live. The LOI is a better league. Statistics can be presented to bolster any opinion. The quality of football on the pitch and numbers in the stands cannot be argued with. The IL is inferior.

Hi Eatyourgreens.

[ForeForeToo]

Hi Eatyourgreens.

I love my veg but I am not the user you seem to think I am.

If it amuses you to believe this I am all for it.

[EalingGreen]

I have been a long time lurker on this site before becoming a registered user. I have come to the conclusion that you exist on here to simply argue that the IL stacks up to thee LOI. You appear to have a gripe with the LOI bring a better league. Almost a fear of this being the case. I could not care about populations or where people live. The LOI is a better league. Statistics can be presented to bolster any opinion. The quality of football on the pitch and numbers in the stands cannot be argued with. The IL is inferior.As a football nerd generally, and an IL fan specifically, I also take an interest in our nearest neighbour, since we have a number of things in common, crossovers and a shared history etc.

And I didn't need Larne v Shams to tell me that playing standards are higher in the LOI than the IL, including in Europe, or that the LOI has greater depth etc. This is hardly surprising, since for one reason you embraced f-t professionalism a lot earlier than us, while also having greater resources than us in a number of respects. Consequently there is a lot that the IL can - and should - learn from the LOI. (That clear enough for ya?).

But there are also a few things which the LOI could learn from the IL. For one thing, our pyramid has allowed us to raise standards, increase competitiveness within our game and expand senior football to just about every part of the country.

While for all the (many) failings of the IFA/NIFL, I think even you must agree that our governance is better than that of the LOI. Consequently, even if many are modest operations, NI can support 24 sustainable, Senior clubs, as opposed to ROI's 20. (Arguably 17 or 18, when you discount UCD and Derry, even Kerry?). Which is why we so rarely see clubs getting into the sort of financial difficulties currently being suffered by Dundalk, as happens fairly regularly in the LOI. This reflects a much better Licensing system in the IL, where we are not so desperate for clubs that we will pass applications which often turn out to be rather more fanciful than substantive.

While I suspect that our stadia, more of which are actually owned by the clubs, are generally in better nick than the LOI's, at least compared to the size of our respective clubs, maybe even in absolute terms? Which to get us back to the thread topic(!), all contributes to the number of paying* spectators being indisputably higher on a per capita basis in our Premiership than your Premier Division.


* - Notwithstanding the clear disparity in wealth and disposable income between NI and ROI.

[EatYerGreens]

Hi Eatyourgreens.

Haha! That's genuinely not me. And nor is he/she wrong either :cool:

[EatYerGreens]

But there are also a few things which the LOI could learn from the IL. For one thing, our pyramid has allowed us to raise standards, increase competitiveness within our game and expand senior football to just about every part of the country.

While for all the (many) failings of the IFA/NIFL, I think even you must agree that our governance is better than that of the LOI. Consequently, even if many are modest operations, NI can support 24 sustainable, Senior clubs, as opposed to ROI's 20. (Arguably 17 or 18, when you discount UCD and Derry, even Kerry?). Which is why we so rarely see clubs getting into the sort of financial difficulties currently being suffered by Dundalk, as happens fairly regularly in the LOI. This reflects a much better Licensing system in the IL, where we are not so desperate for clubs that we will pass applications which often turn out to be rather more fanciful than substantive.

(Replying as myself here, to placate the conspiracy theorists).

Has NI seen fewer financial issues than the LOI because of better governance? Or because of the simple fact that there has been way less money put into NI football? A club doesn't have to indulge in a financial arms race if few of its competitors are doing so. It can still compete with regular resources, so it doesn;t put its financial stability at risk. I honestly think you're giving too much credence to 'governance' in the IL here. We'll see what happens when the owner of Glentoran gets bored and looks to move on, for example.


While I suspect that our stadia, more of which are actually owned by the clubs, are generally in better nick than the LOI's, at least compared to the size of our respective clubs, maybe even in absolute terms? Which to get us back to the thread topic(!), all contributes to the number of paying* spectators being indisputably higher on a per capita basis in our Premiership than your Premier Division.

But so what? You're obsessed with this notion. But there are many variables wich contribute towards support for football clubs. Catchment population is only one of them - particularly in places where football has to compete against quite a few other alternatives for spectators sponsorship, players, media attention etc. You just refuse to accept this.

[EalingGreen]

Has NI seen fewer financial issues than the LOI because of better governance?Better governance is certainly one reason. I expect there may be others. Either way, clubs getting into financial trouble occurs much more frequently in the LOI than in the IL. Or are you going to dispute that, too?

P.S. Is it that you've forgotten a certain John Delaney, or that you've never heard of him in the first place?


Or because of the simple fact that there has been way less money put into NI football?Less money makes it harder to manage your financial affairs, not easier, no?



A club doesn't have to indulge in a financial arms race if few of its competitors are doing so. It can still compete with regular resources, so it doesn;t put its financial stability at risk. I honestly think you're giving too much credence to 'governance' in the IL here."Keeping up with the Joneses" is all relative.

Besides which, a few years back a number of IL clubs such as Coleraine, Glentoran, Portadown and Newry did fall foul of an "arms race" (paying unsustainable wages and transfer fees etc). This took a long time to work through, but fortunately with no major casualties. The point being that it hasn't really been happening since, because both the clubs themselves and the IFA learnt the lessons.

Which process was helped by an element of "moral hazard" i.e. if any given club did go bust, the IL should be able to find a replacement* easily enough. And be honest, this is hardly the case in the LOI - or do you imagine the league won't do everything they possibly can eg to save Dundalk?


* - Portadown were once famously denied a Premiership Licence during a league reorganisation because their application arrived 14 minutes after the deadline: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/7396174.stm




We'll see what happens when the owner of Glentoran gets bored and looks to move on, for example.Fair question. And one which might equally be directed eg to Derry City, Shamrock Rovers, Galway Utd etc.



But so what? You're obsessed with this notion. But there are many variables wich contribute towards support for football clubs. Catchment population is only one of them - particularly in places where football has to compete against quite a few other alternatives for spectators sponsorship, players, media attention etc. You just refuse to accept this.Your "obsessed" is my "keenly interested". And considering this thread is 55 pages strong, I'm hardly alone in my interest.

Anyhow, your chief reason for explaining the (small) disparity between IL and LOI crowds was that with football being an urban sport, then NI's greater population density gives us an advantage. Which is demonstrable nonsense.

So next time you make vague claims about "competition" and "alternatives" etc, you might be advised to provide some statistical evidence if you're to retain your credibility in the debate.

Over to you. :)

[Kingswood Rover]

Rovers website saying all season tickets now sold out for south stand and there are just under 3000 2025 season tickets sold already. Thats despite us being **** poor in the league up to and including getting thumped at home by Pats. WOW.

[EatYerGreens]

So next time you make vague claims about "competition" and "alternatives" etc, you might be advised to provide some statistical evidence if you're to retain your credibility in the debate.

Over to you. :)

Here's a few interesting stats for you:

1) Attendances in the Irish League are actually on the decline currently.
2) BOTH Drogheda and Derry brought enough fans to the Aviva on Sunday to individually fill Windsor Park on their own. Something that no Irish League club is even close to being capable of doing.
3) That was despite Drogheda having a population which is much smaller than IL towns like Bangor and Lisburn in the north.
4) NI's population is 30 times smaller than England's. By your logic, therefore, clubs like Linfield attracting approx 3,000 fans is a better performance than England, where no club attracts 90,000 to games.

There's lies, damned lies, and then there's statistics.

[LTFC]

Surprised wasnt posted here

A total of 1,001,630 fans went to games in the SSE Airtricity Men's Premier Division, First Division, SSE Airtricity Women’s Premier Division, men's and women's FAI Cups, the All-Island Cup and European matches involving LOI clubs.

The headline last year was almost a million.

[DonegalHoop]

Still one game to go as well!

[legendz]

What attendance is expected for the promotion relegation playoff?

[2 Year Contract]

What attendance is expected for the promotion relegation playoff?

A few Drogheda fans said on here last week that if they won the cup they’d sell out Tallaght, so according to them it’ll be just under 10,000 (assuming Bray don’t sell their 2 small blocks of the West stand). In reality I’d say it’ll be somewhere between 4-6k at a guess if a good number of neutrals show up, which is possible given the lack of other football on tv on Saturday daytime

[EalingGreen]

There's lies, damned lies, and then there's statisticsHa! That quotation is invariably used by people who don't have any statistics to back their own claims.

Anyhow, my point was a simple one, namely that when it comes to the percentage of people who pay to watch top flight football in Ireland, the figure for NI/IL is a little higher than that of ROI/LOI. That much is indisputable.

So that when faced with this, you have tried to come up with some explanations for NI being somehow "advantaged" in this respect. Of course, even if your reasoning was correct - it isn't, see the following - it still wouldn't rebut the above basic premise.

And as for those "explanations", your chief one of these - NI is much more urbanised than ROI - is plain wrong, there's very little difference. Your second is that there is somehow more "competition" for football in ROI than in NI. You have produced no evidence for this claim. Nor have you even distinguished between participation in the two countries, and actual paying spectators, which is the point under debate. Therefore such a claim is worthless.

Meanwhile, on this question of punters actually paying to watch football, you studiously ignore two factors whereby football in NI might be said to be disadvantaged. First, the population of ROI is somewhat wealthier than that of NI, meaning we might expect to have less disposable income for watching sport. Second, football matches in NI attract 20% VAT, meaning clubs either have to increase ticket prices to generate the same revenues, or keep prices down, thereby reducing revenues.

Add to that the fact that football in ROI never had to operate during 30 years of severe civil strife, the legacy of which still prevails in terms of sectarianism and division etc; as well as the IL losing the Senior club in its second city to the LOI. Or the fact that the IL Prem comprises 12 clubs, versus the LOI's 9 + Derry City.

Of course, in my post #1,074 which prompted this debate, I merely laid out a simple observation about relative attendances. While it is you who has sought to develop it into some sort of "playground mickey-measuring contest", not I. Which is all the more amusing when you are the one who is, er, coming up short! ;)



1) Attendances in the Irish League are actually on the decline currently.Dunno where you get that from. Last season the IL average was 1,591. So far this season it is 1,631, i.e. before the boost that Boxing Day/New Year and the post-split games usually bring.



2) BOTH Drogheda and Derry brought enough fans to the Aviva on Sunday to individually fill Windsor Park on their own. Something that no Irish League club is even close to being capable of doing.Even if boosted hugely by spectators from outside NI :), I happily accept that that Cup Final crowd is very impressive, and I wish we could achieve similar in NI.
But the seasonal one-off of a Cup Final shouldn't be allowed to deflect from the subject under discussion, even if it suits you to try, for we are debating the "bread and butter" of league attendances.



3) That was despite Drogheda having a population which is much smaller than IL towns like Bangor and Lisburn in the north.So we're into "cherry picking" now? What was it you said about "Lies, damned lies etc"?

But hey, if you want to play that game, I'll see your Drogheda (population 44k, ave. league crowd 2,023) and raise you my Loughgall (pop.300, ave.att. 691).

Good game this, isn't it? :cool:



4) NI's population is 30 times smaller than England's. By your logic, therefore, clubs like Linfield attracting approx 3,000 fans is a better performance than England, where no club attracts 90,000 to games.Wow! And I thought your previous comparison of crowds in NI with those in the USA was fatuous!

Anyhow, even if such a comparison were valid, and it clearly isn't, that is not my "logic" at all. All I am merely pointing out is that the the IL manages to attract a (slightly) higher proportion of its population to attend top flight football than the LOI from its population, no more, no less.

While it is you who seems to be taking this so personally that you are resorting to this sort of garbage.

P.S. Should Man U decide to build a new stadium to replace OT, it will likely have a capacity of 100k, which I have no doubt they would fill every week. Which would make your above Linfield/England "comparison" laughable in every single respect.

[EatYerGreens]

Ha! That quotation is invariably used by people who don't have any statistics to back their own claims.

Anyhow, my point was a simple one, namely that when it comes to the percentage of people who pay to watch top flight football in Ireland, the figure for NI/IL is a little higher than that of ROI/LOI. That much is indisputable.

So that when faced with this, you have tried to come up with some explanations for NI being somehow "advantaged" in this respect. Of course, even if your reasoning was correct - it isn't, see the following - it still wouldn't rebut the above basic premise.

And as for those "explanations", your chief one of these - NI is much more urbanised than ROI - is plain wrong, there's very little difference. Your second is that there is somehow more "competition" for football in ROI than in NI. You have produced no evidence for this claim. Nor have you even distinguished between participation in the two countries, and actual paying spectators, which is the point under debate. Therefore such a claim is worthless.

Meanwhile, on this question of punters actually paying to watch football, you studiously ignore two factors whereby football in NI might be said to be disadvantaged. First, the population of ROI is somewhat wealthier than that of NI, meaning we might expect to have less disposable income for watching sport. Second, football matches in NI attract 20% VAT, meaning clubs either have to increase ticket prices to generate the same revenues, or keep prices down, thereby reducing revenues.

Add to that the fact that football in ROI never had to operate during 30 years of severe civil strife, the legacy of which still prevails in terms of sectarianism and division etc; as well as the IL losing the Senior club in its second city to the LOI. Or the fact that the IL Prem comprises 12 clubs, versus the LOI's 9 + Derry City.

Of course, in my post #1,074 which prompted this debate, I merely laid out a simple observation about relative attendances. While it is you who has sought to develop it into some sort of "playground mickey-measuring contest", not I. Which is all the more amusing when you are the one who is, er, coming up short! ;)

Dunno where you get that from. Last season the IL average was 1,591. So far this season it is 1,631, i.e. before the boost that Boxing Day/New Year and the post-split games usually bring.

Even if boosted hugely by spectators from outside NI :), I happily accept that that Cup Final crowd is very impressive, and I wish we could achieve similar in NI.
But the seasonal one-off of a Cup Final shouldn't be allowed to deflect from the subject under discussion, even if it suits you to try, for we are debating the "bread and butter" of league attendances.

So we're into "cherry picking" now? What was it you said about "Lies, damned lies etc"?

But hey, if you want to play that game, I'll see your Drogheda (population 44k, ave. league crowd 2,023) and raise you my Loughgall (pop.300, ave.att. 691).

Good game this, isn't it? :cool:

Wow! And I thought your previous comparison of crowds in NI with those in the USA was fatuous!

Anyhow, even if such a comparison were valid, and it clearly isn't, that is not my "logic" at all. All I am merely pointing out is that the the IL manages to attract a (slightly) higher proportion of its population to attend top flight football than the LOI from its population, no more, no less.

While it is you who seems to be taking this so personally that you are resorting to this sort of garbage.

P.S. Should Man U decide to build a new stadium to replace OT, it will likely have a capacity of 100k, which I have no doubt they would fill every week. Which would make your above Linfield/England "comparison" laughable in every single respect.

You are the epitome of dragging a discussion down to the level of pointless tedium and boring the other person into submission

The Irish league attendances decline is from Marshall Gillespie, who as you know is the recognised stats guru in northern football. His figures in the below tweet show a slight increase across the IL at the stage of last weekend versus the previous year - up a total of 20 punters (and lower than the increase you're claiming). However - two-thirds of the league's clubs have declining attendances, and it's only a big increase in crowds at Ballymena this season (up over 500 on average) that is preventing the total league being in the red. (And that's also before you factor in that Portadown being promoted and Newry being relegated has had a large positive net impact upon the league average). I'm not sure a drop in attendances at two-thirds of the league's clubs is something to be either brushed off (as you're doing) or celebrated (as Marshall is doing) - especially when the back-to-back champions are down 17%, and the team currently top of the IL are down 5%.

You may take it up with the Marshal is you're not happy with his stats here = https://x.com/NIStats/status/1854851786537910482

[nigel-harps1954]

Take it to private messages lads. It's getting tiring at this stage, seeing every thread descend into the same argument.

[EalingGreen]

You are the epitome of dragging a discussion down to the level of pointless tedium and boring the other person into submission
I originally noted in passing that a slightly higher percentage of the population of NI pays to watch top flight IL football than that of the ROI for top flight LOI football (post #1,074) - nothing more, nothing less.

At which point it was you, post #1,077 onwards, who dragged the discussion down with witless claims about "urbanisation", "competition" and "less money meaning fewer financial problems" etc, in a desperate attempt to somehow rebut my original simple, indisputable observation.


The Irish league attendances decline is from Marshall Gillespie, who as you know is the recognised stats guru in northern football.

You may take it up with the Marshal is you're not happy with his stats here = https://x.com/NIStats/status/1854851786537910482
Dear God.

You stated in post #1,088 that: "Attendances in the Irish League are actually on the decline currently."

And now, to support your case, you quote a tweet by my friend Marshall which states:
"To date, the average per game this season is 1,611, which is up on last season's average of 1.591"

Embarrassing.

[EatYerGreens]

You stated in post #1,088 that: "Attendances in the Irish League are actually on the decline currently."

And now, to support your case, you quote a tweet by my friend Marshall which states:
"To date, the average per game this season is 1,611, which is up on last season's average of 1.591"

Embarrassing.

They are in decline. It's only one club, Ballymena,that is propping the whole league up, as two-thirds of its clubs are suffering lower attendances. There is nothing to celebrate in that fact.

It will be interesting to see to what extent that decline increases over the cold winter months.

[EalingGreen]

They are in decline. It's only one club, Ballymena,that is propping the whole league up, as two-thirds of its clubs are suffering lower attendances. There is nothing to celebrate in that fact.With the exception of Larne, it has been less than 4-5% in those clubs which have shown a decline. (Coleraine's has been less than 1%, for instance). And with such a small sample size i.e. 5 - 9 home games so far, with the highest (Glenavon on 9) showing an increase, it takes very little to boost or depress such fine margins at individual clubs at this stage. Whereas the larger aggregate sample must give a better picture.

As for Larne (just 5 home IL games), they have had a particularly topsy turvey season thanks to Europe, with games having to be postponed or moved to Sunday etc, while at the same time featuring more than any other club on live TV.


It will be interesting to see to what extent that decline increases over the cold winter months.Unless we get a blizzard and postponements etc, I predict that the Boxing Day derbies alone at eg Coleraine, Crues and Glentoran will wipe out the deficit which those clubs are currently showing. (Boxing Day/New Year draws the highest crowds in the calendar, season in, season out).

Now what was it you were wittering on about earlier? Oh yes, something about Statistics, wasn't it? :)

[ger121]

I originally noted in passing that a slightly higher percentage of the population of NI pays to watch top flight IL football than that of the ROI for top flight LOI football (post #1,074) - nothing more, nothing less.

At which point it was you, post #1,077 onwards, who dragged the discussion down with witless claims about "urbanisation", "competition" and "less money meaning fewer financial problems" etc, in a desperate attempt to somehow rebut my original simple, indisputable observation.


Dear God.

You stated in post #1,088 that: "Attendances in the Irish League are actually on the decline currently."

And now, to support your case, you quote a tweet by my friend Marshall which states:
"To date, the average per game this season is 1,611, which is up on last season's average of 1.591"

Embarrassing.

Boys….you are a hard read…

[CorribsideSteve]

This has become two bald men fighting over a comb with a few bristles in it.