Palestinian Israeli Conflict.

[pineapple stu]

I don't associate with the nazis at all.
So why do you associate with Israel given the huge similarities with the Nazis?


Do you associate with the mullahs hamas hessbulah? Where would you rather your daughter or your gay friend grew up? Iran, Syria or Israel. I expect nothing but nonsense and deflection as there is only one answer.
It's a pathetically narrow-minded and irrelevant way to judge a political matter. As if all this can be justified by gay rights FFS

[sbgawa]

Disagree with huge similarities with the nazis.
Please answer the question who do you identify more with if the middle east was at peace a democratic and Liberal Israel or the mad mullahs and their regimes.
No answer....thought not

[Acornvilla]

Tbh if someone blew up everyone and every thing I ever knew for decades with impunity I might become someone capable of doing a terrorism too.

[sbgawa]

Tbf if someone killed 6 million of my crew I might become slightly annoyed

[Acornvilla]

Tbf if someone killed 6 million of my crew I might become slightly annoyed
The people of Palestine did not do that. Weaponizing a generational trauma to go and inflict similar crimes on another is bad I think.

[sbgawa]

Eh.....the nazis didn't bomb Palestine either. I'm fed up saying I condemn both sides atrocities would anyone else have the balls to go against the wokearati and say the mullahs are not any better than the Israelis or do we all just ignore the obvious and get on with grooming our handlebar moustaches.

[Acornvilla]

This has been a deeply unfulfilling conversation for me pal, losing the will to read levels. I'm not sure you're really getting what any of us are trying to say to you, and I'm not sure you want to hear it either.

2 sides are bad, one is doing a genocide, so maybe they should stop that? I don't know seems kind of the worse thing. I don't even want to go down the rabbit hole of whether people who are being oppressed should be allowed to fight back or not because I don't think anyone has the energy for that can of worms.

[nigel-harps1954]

What exactly is a 'wokerati'?

[sbgawa]

No one wants to address what I'm saying. I condemn the Israeli bombing of Arab areas , I condemn the rape and murder and kidnapping of Israeli civilians.
Now if you had to choose where to live with your friends be they gay, straight, woman , men would you identify more with the mad mullahs , Syrian dictators , hamas , hesbolah or Israel.?? Feel free to keep ignoring the obvious and refusing to answer. Please someone answer that question

[Acornvilla]

This is the worst attempt at a gotcha I have ever seen

[sbgawa]

This is the worst attempt at a gotcha I have ever seen

Cheers its amazing how people can support horrific regimes because it's the trendy thing to do

[Acornvilla]

Cheers its amazing how people can support horrific regimes because it's the trendy thing to do
We're wasting each others time but this is an incredibly ironic thing to say given the conversation were having

[sbgawa]

I just thinknits genuinely hilarious that people think it's controversial for someone to say they identify with Israel more so then regimes that hate the west and our values. I'd urge all the Hamas supporters to move to the middle East and see how they get on. They'd find plenty of people that would love to swap passports

[Acornvilla]

But you do understand that Israel is the side of this "conflict" that has all of the meaningful support? That's who is "popular". Do you really think people are supporting Palestine because it's cool? People have died because they have tried to help, people have died because they have tried to report on it, others from a safer position have lost their jobs just for saying they think what is happening is wrong. Whatever you can feel like you are more like an Israeli than an Arab, that really shouldn't matter, I don't know how you're not understanding this, and why you also seem to have such a low opinion of people who genuinely care, they aren't stupid just because you don't understand them. I think public opinion is slowly turning because no matter how unevenly what is happening is being reported by much of the media, people can see how sick and ****ed up the situation is, who is perpetuating daily unspeakable horrors, and who the victims are.

[CraftyToePoke]

Eh.....the nazis didn't bomb Palestine either.

The logic of this is unhinged.

[pineapple stu]

Disagree with huge similarities with the nazis.
Please answer the question who do you identify more with if the middle east was at peace a democratic and Liberal Israel or the mad mullahs and their regimes.
No answer....thought not
Several people have answered the question. It's irrelevant first off, and you haven't shown any reason to the contrary. But in any event, as I've already said, I really can't identify with either group. Neither conservative Islam for reasons you've booked, nor Israel and their genocidal, cult-like views. From my (quite limited) exposure to the general Israeli, there seems to be widespread support for its regime's ethnic cleansing and settlement of Palestine. And within that, I don't identify with the views of the influential and rapidly growing Hasidic sect, including their views on gay people. Yet you do?

I've answered your question with reasons (again) - could I ask you to do the same? It's too easy to answer "I disagree" with no further argument.

So what differences do you see between these two democratically-elected, genocidal, expansionist, war-starting groups who have created a cult level of support at home and who both have bogeymen opposition groups (communists/conservative Islam)?

[osarusan]

Now if you had to choose where to live with your friends be they gay, straight, woman , men would you identify more with the mad mullahs , Syrian dictators , hamas , hesbolah or Israel.?? Feel free to keep ignoring the obvious and refusing to answer. Please someone answer that question
I can say that Israel is a better place to live for LGBT people than Iran or Syria, and indeed, a better place to live in general.

But so what? What is the relevance of that?

Spain is a better place to live than Portugal in many ways (longer life span, higher salary, better educated, higher literacy rate, lower infant mortality, higher LGBT equality index, decriminalised homosexual activity earlier, legalised same sex marriage earlier) but if Spain invaded Portugal tomorrow and started laying waste to the population and the infrastructure, my thought process wouldn't be 'well, what's left of Portugal will end up a better place to live'.

[sbgawa]

Several people have answered the question. It's irrelevant first off, and you haven't shown any reason to the contrary. But in any event, as I've already said, I really can't identify with either group. Neither conservative Islam for reasons you've booked, nor Israel and their genocidal, cult-like views. From my (quite limited) exposure to the general Israeli, there seems to be widespread support for its regime's ethnic cleansing and settlement of Palestine. And within that, I don't identify with the views of the influential and rapidly growing Hasidic sect, including their views on gay people. Yet you do?

I've answered your question with reasons (again) - could I ask you to do the same? It's too easy to answer "I disagree" with no further argument.

So what differences do you see between these two democratically-elected, genocidal, expansionist, war-starting groups who have created a cult level of support at home and who both have bogeymen opposition groups (communists/conservative Islam)?

Well for a start the Nazis killed approximately 66% of the European Jewish population in the 12 years the 3rd Reich existed and banned elections after they came to power (with a minority vote) so they were not actually a democracy for the most part and the Germans didnt have an oppurtunity to vote them out.
The Israelis are a functioning democracy and the Population of Gazza has grown by about 40% over the last 12 years (to keep the time frame the same as the Nazis) so i dont think they are similer to be honest at all.
If the Israelis were actually Nazis they would have killed all the population of Gazza by now with the firepower they have and by cuting off all food aid such as the actual Nazis did in the Gettos in Poland in the second world war.
People throw the word Genocide and Ethnic cleansing around loosely (and before someone clutches their pearls i think killing 40000 is wrong just as much as Oct 7th was wrong) im simply making the point that if anything it shows the Israelis are not Nazis.n

I cant blame the Israelis for reacting to October 7th i think any Government that had 1200 of its citizens raped and killed / taken hostage that didnt react would be unusual to say the least but you cant solve the problem by killing 40/50/60 thousend people they just get replaced so its pointless. Equally Arab countries agression towards Israel is pointless they cant win either. They need to live together but as long as Dictator ships like Iran / Syria exist i cant see it happening.

Ironically to use your Nazi analogy if the Israelis were actual Nazis they would solve the problem through a Genocidal wipe out.....one could call it A FINAL SOLUTION with a bit of irony but thankfully they arent Nazis

[Acornvilla]

You do realize that this started before Oct 7th? It has also been reported in the mean time that a huge number of those deaths were due to the IDF killing their own people. You should look in to The Hannibal directive. What Hamas did was horrific, the rape allegations can't be proven, do I believe it's possible some awful people did awful things? Absolutely, but do I believe Israel capable of weaponizing something like that to fuel their motives? Absolutely. There are literally thousands of Palestinian hostages trapped in Israeli prisons before Oct 7th, thousands of them children! Apparently about 43% of the population of Palestine is children. Israel are exterminating a nation live before our eyes and you're being willfully blind to it.

So much of what has and is happening has been misrepresented and used as an excuse to begin the Israeli equivalent of the final solution. You're saying they're not Nazi's because they haven't killed everyone yet. You're very much underestimating what their final solution is then, perhaps you should spend some time listening to what Netanyahu is saying, because that is very much his plan, how the US and others are allowing it to happen in this day and age is astonishing. They don't care about either side, they are just using Israel as a battering ram for control in the region, it is sick.

[sbgawa]

Yes i do know it started before Oct 7th hence why i gave the 12 year figure for popualtion growth of circa 40% in Gazza over the last 12 years., which makes sense of your "apparantly 43% of the people of palastine are Children" comment.
tbh i think any reasonable person looking at what has happened in the last year and what COULD have happened would be inclined to agree that Israel is not pursuing the "Final solution" .

Do i think it likely that the Israelis will actually try and do a Nazi type final solution and elimnate the Palestinians? i 100% do not and please God i am right.

Im not comfortable discussing the absence of a FINAL SOLUTION as a positive as i think whats going on on both sides now needs to stop as it is utterly pointless, i only make the point because i think people throw genocide and final solution/ Nazis around loosely and the facts simply dont agree with it
Im think that any reasonable person reading the stats that the poppulation of Palastine has increased by circa 40% in the last 12 years and looking at the 12 year Nazi regime who killed circ 66% of the European jews might think that maybe its an unfair comparison to equate the Nazis with the Israelis.

[Acornvilla]

Would someone else like to tag in here because I can't waste any more of my life on this. I just wish you could try and look at this situation from a few more perspectives Sbgawa, it is honestly hurting my soul reading this.

[sbgawa]

TBH i think its you who need to look at it from a few more perspectives.
It would be nice if you acknowledged based on pretty clear stats that the Israelis arent Nazi final solution merchants but maybe you are right and they will decide a year later to start to implement one (they do have Nukes after all) if they do we will find ourselves on the same side.
On that basis i hope you and i are still on oposite sides in a years time.

[SkStu]

I am definitely in absolute horror at what Israel is doing every day. As I have said before, it is like taking a gun to a knife fight. They have a responsibility to be precise and targetted in how they address the absolute sh!t that Hamas and Hezbollah get up to, with the support of those absolute lunatics that control Iran. And they have totally absolved themselves of that responsibility with no repercussions whatsoever except a few tsk tsks from countries that have an obligation to do better and more in that regard. With that said, I would like to get peoples take on the following. For all that Israel has a responsibility to be precise and targetted in how they attack the lunatics on the other side, what responsibility do Hamas and Hezbollah have to keep their civilians safe? I have read articles in reputable sites (incl. NATO, WaPo) the extent to which both parties (H&H) might be using their civilians as human shields and it is a fairly abhorrent situation even from that perspective. Of course, the extent etc is disputed but the evidence is strong. And its a win/win for them. It truly is sickening. There are no good guys. Both sides are massive c*nts.

[pineapple stu]

Well for a start the Nazis killed approximately 66% of the European Jewish population in the 12 years the 3rd Reich existed
And in the past year alone, Israel has killed around 10% of the Palestinian population. Sounds pretty similar to me.

Israel killed fewer in prior years, but they killed plenty - and then it comes down to a question of scale. Is there a percentage of a country you're ok with having killed? 2%? 5% maybe? Where do you draw the line?

Ultimately it's the same mindset of genocide - and that's why I link the Nazis with Israel.


the Population of Gazza has grown by about 40% over the last 12 years (to keep the time frame the same as the Nazis)
Do you think the Palestinians are wild animals whose numbers need to be culled to keep their population down? Otherwise this comment is irrelevant at best, and "downright disturbing" is probably closer the case.


If the Israelis were actually Nazis they would have [...] cut[ing] off all food aid such as the actual Nazis did in the Gettos in Poland in the second world war.
Yeah - about that. Israel cut off food aid to Palestine last year (https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2023/10/10/cutting-gaza-off-from-food-and-water-against-international-law-says-eu/).


Ironically to use your Nazi analogy if the Israelis were actual Nazis they would solve the problem through a Genocidal wipe out
In the past 12 months, Israel is absolutely keeping pace with the Nazis in this regard. And arguably omnipresent media is holding them back in a way Hitler never had to deal with. It's probably what's holding them back on their full-on launch on Rafah, which has been threatened for a while - and which would drive deaths way, way up.


and banned elections after they came to power (with a minority vote) so they were not actually a democracy for the most part and the Germans didnt have an oppurtunity to vote them out.
Banning elections is probably one of the least worst things the Nazis did, but two comments. The minorty vote is irrelevant; in a multi-party democracy, it's rare to have a majority vote. 44% (which they got) is actually pretty big. And secondly, I think the Nazis remained quite popular until the last year of the war, when things started to turn - they quite likely would have been voted back in the same way Israelis keep voting Likud back in.

Edit - actually, v it's 1% of Palestinians israel has killed in the last year, not 10%. Apologies. I don't think really negates the point though

[osarusan]

I would like to get peoples take on the following. For all that Israel has a responsibility to be precise and targetted in how they attack the lunatics on the other side, what responsibility do Hamas and Hezbollah have to keep their civilians safe? I have read articles in reputable sites (incl. NATO, WaPo) the extent to which both parties (H&H) might be using their civilians as human shields and it is a fairly abhorrent situation even from that perspective. Of course, the extent etc is disputed but the evidence is strong.
Has anybody on here suggested that H&H are anything other than scum? I don't think so, though there will inevitably be 'wokerati' or just edgelords in various online and offline spaces. Using your own civilians as shields is utterly barbaric.

Any I can have a certain degree of understanding of Israeli soldiers torn between not striking a legitimate target because of civilian casualties, or taking the strike and having to suffer the bad press that comes with it.

But what we are seeing goes far beyond that. What we are seeing is an Israeli military that has demonstrated itself of extremely precise attacks, yet still uses massive bombs to cause massive damage. And systematically laying waste to Gazan insfrastructure (through the razing of schools, government buildings etc) to make any return as difficult and protracted as possible.

And at every turn, absurdly justifying the demolition of buildings and the killing of civilians by connecting anything and everything to Hamas, safe in the knowledge that they can tell that lie over and over again without any consequences, because the few countries (one, really) that could actually get in their way will not do so.

[SkStu]

Has anybody on here suggested that H&H are anything other than scum? I don't think so, though there will inevitably be 'wokerati' or just edgelords in various online and offline spaces. Using your own civilians as shields is utterly barbaric.

Any I can have a certain degree of understanding of Israeli soldiers torn between not striking a legitimate target because of civilian casualties, or taking the strike and having to suffer the bad press that comes with it.

But what we are seeing goes far beyond that. What we are seeing is an Israeli military that has demonstrated itself of extremely precise attacks, yet still uses massive bombs to cause massive damage. And systematically laying waste to Gazan insfrastructure (through the razing of schools, government buildings etc) to make any return as difficult and protracted as possible.

And at every turn, absurdly justifying the demolition of buildings and the killing of civilians by connecting anything and everything to Hamas, safe in the knowledge that they can tell that lie over and over again without any consequences, because the few countries (one, really) that could actually get in their way will not do so.

So we’re all in agreement that what we are dealing with here is massive c*nts on both sides?

H&H seem to get a free pass, including here, for their apparent disregard for the wellbeing of their civilians. And how this plays into and is a part of what shocks us all. They know what they’re doing, they know what will come and they continue putting their people in the way in spite of this, knowing it ultimately serves them well. That’s f*cking twisted and, really, no better than the same disregard Israel shows for the same people. Not aimed at you, it just needs to be said and acknowledged instead of being deflected.

[pineapple stu]

So we’re all in agreement that what we are dealing with here is massive c*nts on both sides?

H&H seem to get a free pass, including here,
I think the problem here is the debate started out countering the suggestion Israel was the culture we could and should associate with, and has gone on to be arguing against that point in the main

That doesn't mean everyone else is brilliant of course. But it's only natural the way the discussion has evolved

[sbgawa]

And in the past year alone, Israel has killed around 10% of the Palestinian population. Sounds pretty similar to me.

Israel killed fewer in prior years, but they killed plenty - and then it comes down to a question of scale. Is there a percentage of a country you're ok with having killed? 2%? 5% maybe? Where do you draw the line?

Ultimately it's the same mindset of genocide - and that's why I link the Nazis with Israel.


Do you think the Palestinians are wild animals whose numbers need to be culled to keep their population down? Otherwise this comment is irrelevant at best, and "downright disturbing" is probably closer the case.


Yeah - about that. Israel cut off food aid to Palestine last year (https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2023/10/10/cutting-gaza-off-from-food-and-water-against-international-law-says-eu/).


In the past 12 months, Israel is absolutely keeping pace with the Nazis in this regard. And arguably omnipresent media is holding them back in a way Hitler never had to deal with. It's probably what's holding them back on their full-on launch on Rafah, which has been threatened for a while - and which would drive deaths way, way up.


Banning elections is probably one of the least worst things the Nazis did, but two comments. The minorty vote is irrelevant; in a multi-party democracy, it's rare to have a majority vote. 44% (which they got) is actually pretty big. And secondly, I think the Nazis remained quite popular until the last year of the war, when things started to turn - they quite likely would have been voted back in the same way Israelis keep voting Likud back in.

Edit - actually, v it's 1% of Palestinians israel has killed in the last year, not 10%. Apologies. I don't think really negates the point though

Actually stu with all due respect it does kind of change the argument 1% is not genocide. 1% is still to much in a pointless war but it does say even more than ever that a nuclear power like Israel are not Nazis as I have been trying to point out. Does that make them boy scouts no. War is horrible but Israel don't deserve the one side bull**** genocide nazi crap that is put out there. 1% is not genocide or nazi comparable. Its still to many people but let's not exaggerate and compare with nazis it's insulting.
If Israel were nazis they would have nuked the Arab countries and the problem from their perspective would have been solved. Does anyone here have any doubt tahg hitler would have used nukes if he had them?

[sbgawa]

Can we all maybe agree as stk stu so eloquently puts we are dealing with two horrible feckers who will hopefully stop shooting each other in a pointless war

[pineapple stu]

Actually stu with all due respect it does kind of change the argument 1% is not genocide.
I thought you might try use the 1% to wangle out of it. That's pretty pathetic.

It's listed on the wikipedia list of genocides page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides). I don't think there's any definition of genocide that includes the base=level % of people murdered that qualifies. There's plenty of definitions of genocide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_definitions) - here's one from, ironically, an Israeli called Israel:


Genocide in the generic sense means the mass killing of substantial numbers of human beings, when not in the course of military action against the military forces of an avowed enemy, under conditions of the essential defenselessness of the victim
I think all those boxes are ticked.

Here's another from that link -


A genocidal mass murder is politically motivated violence that directly or indirectly kills a substantial proportion of a targeted population, combatants and noncombatants alike, regardless of their age or gender.
Again, all those boxes ticked.

You could possibly argue it's ethnic cleansing rather than genocide - which really doesn't improve things much given the Nazis were guilty of that too, so we still end up at the same point that you can't argue you identify with Israel while not identifying with the Nazis.

[sbgawa]

Give me a break Stu. The nazis killed 65% of the Jews while the population of Gaza is rising. Agreeing that the war is wrong on both sides and pointless which I think we both would doesn't excuse the nonsense claim that the Israelis are nazis when the facts are completely contrary. If you want to quote Wikipedia definitions fine but it doesn't make Israelis nazis in fact if anything it shows yiu plucking at straw's to try to redefine genocide but not acknowledging that the Israelis are not anything like the nazis . Trying to coral them both under a Wikipedia definition while ignoring the massive difference between what they dis/ do is riddiculous

[sbgawa]

You can say u hate the Israelis on principle and do t care that they Rent actually committing genocide. You are entitled to your opinion but a growing population compared to a 66% kill rate makes a nonsense of the genocide arguemwnt

[dahamsta]

EDIT: Never mind, I was about 3 pages back.

@sbgawa, I find it very hard to believe that you actually believe what you're saying, but sure work away, the lads are doing a great job showing you up for it.

[sbgawa]

They are showing up something alright.

[nigel-harps1954]

Seymour Skinner - no it's the children who are wrong.

Can't really bring myself to shake up the meme itself. It's outrageous in this day and age that anyone can attempt to justify the actions of a murderous regime.

[pineapple stu]

It's ok though - the population of Palestine is increasing, so really it's just population control, not genocide.

Nothing to see here. (In particular, I don't see a contrary definition of genocide to challenge the two I've linked)

[sbgawa]

Seymour Skinner - no it's the children who are wrong.

Can't really bring myself to shake up the meme itself. It's outrageous in this day and age that anyone can attempt to justify the actions of a murderous regime.

Im getting pretty sick of the OTT stuff,
Where have i tried to justify Israels actions??
From the start of this thread ive condemned the violence on both sides and said it was pointless.
Im sorry if me refusing to call the Israelies Nazis uosets you but i simply think thats OTT , does anyone think if Hitler had Nukes he would have used them...its a riddiculous comparison.
If the Israelies wanted to wipe the Palestinians off the map they could do it. If they did by the way id have no difficulty calling them Nazis.

How you can say me condemning violence, calling for it to stop but simply refusing to call them Nazis is justifying their actions is beyond me.
Mind you it is symtomatic of the debate in this country.

[sbgawa]

It's ok though - the population of Palestine is increasing, so really it's just population control, not genocide.

Nothing to see here. (In particular, I don't see a contrary definition of genocide to challenge the two I've linked)

Again more of the OTT stuff.
Its not ok Stu , ive repeatedly said it needs to stop and if me refusing to call the Israelis Nazis means you think i do think its ok you are wrong and id appreciate if you stopped saying it.
Most people dont reach for a dictionary for definitions they use common sense and apart from the people that can only see one side of the equation i think most people would see it the same.
The Israelis are killing way to many people and its pointless but they arent NAzis........

By the way your dictionary definition would fit HAMAS , would you consider them to be carrying out genocide or maybe there werent enough killed on Oct 7th.?

[pineapple stu]

Most people dont reach for a dictionary for definitions they use common sense and apart from the people that can only see one side of the equation i think most people would see it the same.
Definitions are actually really important when discussing things.

It is not possible to argue that most people use common sense and don't reach for a definition when discussing things. That's a complete oxymoron.

You also ask where you've tried to justify Israeli actions. I'd say this from post 59 needs some explaining if it's not support for Israel -



If Iran and its mullahs are on one side its easy enough for me to side with a democratic Israel.

Or this from post 68 -

Hence i ignore the whataboutery of who is at fault and support the side that more clearly reflects my view of the world.

Ultimately your main argument for disagreeing that two democratically-elected, genocidal, expansionist, aggressive regimes which have groomed a cult-like, unquestioning, belief in their stance among their population are different comes down to a matter of scale.

I don't agree that's good enough.

The Hamas attacks were terrorist attacks in my view. Pretty appalling ones as terrorist attacks go too. But it was a one-off event, not a multi-year campaign. (For example, another definition on that page - "Genocide should be defined in broad and general terms as the execution of a large-scale and systematic plan with the intention of destroying a human group as such in whole or in part."; my emphasis)

Fortunately literally everyone else on the thread also seems to strongly disagree with your stance, which should be revealing

[sbgawa]

Perhaps youve missunderstood me rather than deliberatly quoting me out of context.

Those comments were me saying that while i condemn violence on both sides and do not and can not justify it i believe that of the two sides i prefer Israel.
They dont hate us and our western values around minorities and Woman unlike the other side of Mad Mullahs and Dictators and that kind of seals it for me
You can support people without liking approving or justifying everything they do.
Im sorry if it offends you and youd prefer if i liked the Mullahs but i dont and i dont think most people do either.

I can see your perspective that 6 million Jews in the seconf world war is Genocide (i assume you do agree) 40000 Palistinians/ Arabs is Genocide but 1200 Jews in one day and many more over the years isnt but i disagree. I am allowed to. I think Scale does matter tbh otherwise words lose all meaning. Its why every Sunday on Sky Sports is Super Sunday and the Premier league is the Greatest league in the world (while we know its ours that is).
When your pals talk about Palistine being free from the River to the Sea do you think they are talking about a peaceful transition, they repeatedly call for death to all jews and arent even embarressed about saying it, id combine that with Oct 7th and say they Want to commit genocide but cant do it compared to the ISraelis who could do it at the push of a nuclear button but dont.

As HAMAS havent killed enough jews to fit your definition maybe you could agree that with their calls for death to all jews and the start they have made since Oct 7th that they are Nazis just not very efficient ones??
Will you call them Nazis when they hit the magic number somewhere between 1200 and 40000?
What is the magic numebr of Jews for HAMAS to kill ? to fit the definition?

[osarusan]

When your pals talk about Palistine being free from the River to the Sea do you think they are talking about a peaceful transition, they repeatedly call for death to all jews and arent even embarressed about saying it, id combine that with Oct 7th and say they Want to commit genocide but cant do it compared to the ISraelis who could do it at the push of a nuclear button but dont.


Are you aware that Netenyahu has used the same expression - he says Israel will control from the river to the sea?


Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Thursday rejected the premise of a Palestinian state and promised that Israel will take over the entire region it currently occupies, “from the river to the sea,” according to an English translation on the Israeli news channel i24NEWS.
https://newrepublic.com/post/178243/benjamin-netanyahu-literally-says-from-the-river-to-the-sea

Add this statement of intent to their killing of so many Palestinians, and their systematic destruction of infrastructure, such as universities:

According to an NBC News analysis of more than 60 videos and photos, and interviews with university administrators, professors, students and experts, at least five of Gaza’s seven major universities have been destroyed or partially damaged since Israel launched its offensive following Hamas’ Oct. 7 terror attacks

https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/gaza-universities-destroyed-israel-military-war/index.html

and schools:


More than 80% of Gaza’s schools have been severely damaged or destroyed by fighting, according to the United Nations


and health care:

The World Health Organization says only about 12 of Gaza’s 36 hospitals are still able to function, although a total of 29 have suffered damage during the conflict. In all, 84% of health facilities are damaged or destroyed.

https://www.npr.org/2024/06/01/g-s1-1780/gaza-israel-infrastructure-water-schools-hospitals

How do you interpret Netenyahu's comments? Is he talking about a peaceful transition?

[sbgawa]

I judge him by his actions tbh and if he wanted to obilterate the Palistinians he could but he hasnt.
I would say by control he means stop the launching of missiles not obliterating the Palistinians as he hasnt done that.
I dont know why you are quoting schools , hospitals etc to me its wrong end of story and ive said it repeatedly, if you quoted me instead iranian missile launches or Hamas on October 7th id say that was wrong as well. I assume we would agree on that.

I still believe that he should stop becasue i just cant see an endgame other than he is creating the next generation of fighters in the same manner as the Brits did here.

[Acornvilla]

Lord I am back because I can't stop reading this and it is really bothering me.

He won't stop until someone stops him. I wonder who that reminds me of? You're really fixated on the number of innocent people being murdered for being the wrong race/religion, and not that it's literally happening before our eyes and that Israel show no signs of stopping, if anything they're expanding operations, it's almost as if they're behaving like Nazi's did, while they were being Nazi's. The only difference is Israel as a military are only as strong as their enablers, so Netanyahu is trying to do just enough genocide that the US and others won't cut off his supply, he can't go as big as he wants to, because that wouldn't be politically expedient, so he's doing it bit by bit instead, are you seriously not able to comprehend this?

You can't be like, well they killed 6 million people by the end, so that's a Nazi, but these IDF people are only getting started, so I'm going to need to see more bodies before I'm convinced. The ancestors of the victims of probably the greatest crime against humanity in history are on the front lines leading the next one, well done to them. And they've been doing it for the guts of a century, Oct 7th was a perfect excuse to overreact and wipe Palestine out, that is their plan, that is ethnic cleansing/genocide, whatever you want to call it, there is no excuse for it. Oct 7th is not an excuse to wipe out a nation no matter how awful what happened was. And for the love of God this didn't start a year ago, Israel has been murdering, imprisoning and displacing people since before any of us were born. Hamas are *******s, they also didn't appear in a vacuum. You can give the IDF's Nazism a new name if it makes you feel better.

It's a waste of time trying to talk about it any more from what I can see, this is willful ignorance at best, I can not get my head around how hard you are trying to not understand the point literally everyone else is making to you.

[John83]

I think it's worth remembering that sometimes you don't win an argument on the internet by convincing the other guy he's wrong. You just let any lurkers come to that conclusion and withdraw for your own sanity.

[sbgawa]

Lord I am back because I can't stop reading this and it is really bothering me.

He won't stop until someone stops him. I wonder who that reminds me of? You're really fixated on the number of innocent people being murdered for being the wrong race/religion, and not that it's literally happening before our eyes and that Israel show no signs of stopping, if anything they're expanding operations, it's almost as if they're behaving like Nazi's did, while they were being Nazi's. The only difference is Israel as a military are only as strong as their enablers, so Netanyahu is trying to do just enough genocide that the US and others won't cut off his supply, he can't go as big as he wants to, because that wouldn't be politically expedient, so he's doing it bit by bit instead, are you seriously not able to comprehend this?

You can't be like, well they killed 6 million people by the end, so that's a Nazi, but these IDF people are only getting started, so I'm going to need to see more bodies before I'm convinced. The ancestors of the victims of probably the greatest crime against humanity in history are on the front lines leading the next one, well done to them. And they've been doing it for the guts of a century, Oct 7th was a perfect excuse to overreact and wipe Palestine out, that is their plan, that is ethnic cleansing/genocide, whatever you want to call it, there is no excuse for it. Oct 7th is not an excuse to wipe out a nation no matter how awful what happened was. And for the love of God this didn't start a year ago, Israel has been murdering, imprisoning and displacing people since before any of us were born. Hamas are *******s, they also didn't appear in a vacuum. You can give the IDF's Nazism a new name if it makes you feel better.

It's a waste of time trying to talk about it any more from what I can see, this is willful ignorance at best, I can not get my head around how hard you are trying to not understand the point literally everyone else is making to you.


If you are right about the bit in bold ill happily come on here and call them Nazis.
In the meantime ill agree to disagree without insulting you abouit wilful ignorance just because you disagree with me.
Good point by John83 also.

[joey B]

I see the Western values from Israel have moved on to shooting UN peacekeepers again ,should be treated as a complete pariah state…

[Acornvilla]

I've seen people in makeshift hospital beds on fire today, how horrific and depraved does this need to be before something actually changes?

Allowing US military to use Shannon is a shame on our own nation

[Neish]

Perhaps youve missunderstood me rather than deliberatly quoting me out of context.

Those comments were me saying that while i condemn violence on both sides and do not and can not justify it i believe that of the two sides i prefer Israel.
They dont hate us and our western values around minorities and Woman unlike the other side of Mad Mullahs and Dictators and that kind of seals it for me
You can support people without liking approving or justifying everything they do.


That Hamas you're referring to and yes they deserve to be wiped out, but Israel isn't wiping them out they are wiping out the Palestinian people . Very little they have done in the last year has Put any real dent in Hamas's ability to launch missiles into Israel(vast majority of which to minimal if any damage)

Not all of the Palestinian people share Hamas ideology(not even a majority I'd say) they got voted in after Isreal's use of collective punishment on the peoples of Gaza and the West Bank. I also add listen to some of the far right Israelis many living in illegal settlements on stolen land, you hear from them much of what your condemning the other side for.

The Western values you speak of, saw the stealing of Palestinian land and making their families refugees in a land their families lived on for centuries & continued funding of the State of Israel which created a apartheid state and the striping of right, cutting off of medical, water, electric supplies.

Same Western values has been witnessed by many people of the Middle east as supporting tyrannical dictators and governments , mass murder, public execution , millions simply gone missing all ignored by those supposed bastions of freedom in exchange for access to oil and other resources

[pineapple stu]

Online Israeli AI bots encourage direct attacks on Irish peacekeeping forces in Lebanon (https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2024/11/02/pro-israeli-bot-network-suspected-of-targeting-irish-troops-in-lebanon/).

This is all perfectly normal and relatable.

The Wix scandal last year showed how Israelis and Israeli companies actively used social media to spread disinformation and emphasise how they were similar to the West while the nasty Muslims were, well, nasty Muslims. (I think an Embassy account was even banned from here)

A nasty, nasty country with pretty much no redeeming features. And as for their supporters in America -


Last month, former White House adviser Matthew Brodsky tweeted that “Israel should carpet bomb the Irish area and then drop napalm over it”.

In another post, he said: “I hope everyone of those POS Irishmen are blasted to bits.” He has since resigned from his role as an adviser to a Republican candidate for congress.

[John83]

Jesus. I didn't think the Republicans had a line you can't cross any more.