Republic of Ireland V Latvia - Wednesday, 22nd March 2023 - Friendly

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Mick McCarthy left the Irish senior squad perfectly set up for someone to come in? Are you on a wind-up? I'm not sure we could even say that he had the team playing better than MoN's end of tenure horridness. Mick McCarthy was offered a job he shouldn't have been offered on good money. He had one mission - to qualify for the Euro's and he failed. He failed from the first moment of his first match in charge. It's an oft-repeated comment from me, but that's because it's relevant. He allowed, into a gale-force wind, in Gibraltar, to allow us to try and muscle and hoof them off the pitch. and it didn't work because we were ****€ and our tactics were ****€. We were blessed to win and should have gone behind only for a wonder save from Randolph.

This was the side from the final match at home vs Denmark.
23 Randolph (GK)
2 Doherty
3 Stevens
4 C Duffy
5 Egan
6 Whelan
Hendrick
8 Browne
Hourihane
9 McGoldrick
11 McClean

Subs
1 O'Hara (GK)
16 Travers (GK)
7 Maguire
10 Brady
12 Robinson
15 K. Long
17 Clark
18 J. Byrne
19 Judge
20 Cullen
21 Parrott
22 J. Collins

Of that experienced final squad, it was so experienced, that 4 of them have been shot as they were that old. Of the others, either their careers have plummetted, they aren't playing at all, or they just weren't up to standard.
We are talking and have been talking about blooding League 1 players that aren't exactly 17/18 to try and come up with some sort of coherent attacking squad. At no point in our past have we been this low on options. You and others are using the analogy that today's Irish Championship players are yesteryears Irish Premier League players - that's total bullocks, no matter what way you dress it up. And even if it wasn't, and I'm not willing to concede that point, given how much bullocks it is, but lets say that is the case, we still aren't replacing championship players with championship players, we are dipping into League 1 for squad options.

David McGoldrick was often Ireland's centre midfield, Ireland's playmaker and Ireland's striker at the same time. As a result we were constantly breaking down positive play, as Ditsy was usually directing it from deep with nobody in front of him to link with.
That's either how bad the tactics were, or the players were. If Mick had continued on, we'd still be waiting for Josh Cullen to be a regular. Our poor-performing (career-wise) youngsters are now fully blooded into international football. There's no awe anymore for Parrott, Connolly, Cullen, Molumby, O'Shea, Collins, Kelleher, Knight, Ogbene, Bazunu, Omabamidele. Kenny did that - there's nothing to say that any other manager would have done that. The squad is in a better place now to push forward, whether that is with Kenny or not. The core rebuilding is done.

Look at the managers before Kenny.
McCarthy - McGoldrick
ONeill - Robbie Brady/John Walters
Trappatoni - Robbie Keane/Damien Duff/Aiden McGeady
Kerr - Robbie Keane/Damien Duff

This is the first Ireland manager that I can remember who doesn't have a natural established/experienced outfield 'out' card to focus his team around. It's undeniable. If you have a squad - in entirity where not one players is a core part of their club side in a offensive manner - it's beyond debilitating. and that's what we had for the best part of the last couple of years. It was Callum Robinson for a short while for Kenny, but the lad is not even consistently playing club football, or scoring.

So I do not accept that this is all Kenny's fault. I accept that is the fault of the FAI who instead of pushing financial resources into youth and domestic football to try and be proactive about the long-term, they pushed money into the hands of managers who by and large couldn't give a fook about Ireland, and who weren't exactly cream of the crop at the moment of their appointments, in order to sate the short-term hard-ons of 'fans' who only give a **** about the big occasion.
Why I'm happy Kenny is still in a job, is that it finally means the FAI are looking at the coffers, and realise we don't have the money to splurge our way out of this nadir with zero guarentee of anything especially given our playing resources, but that splurge would absolutely endanger the good work finally being done underage (meagre and all that it is).
If it takes an extra campaign, I don't care. I'll gladly sacrifice it, if it means that we're in a better position to qualify for more tournaments more consistently, whether that is with Kenny or not.

It was perfectly set up for the next manager coming in after McCarthy because his reign was quite poor but we still came very close to qualification. Please read what I'm saying, not what you think I'm saying. After McCarthy and a few previous campaigns, supporters and more importantly, the players were crying out to be allowed express themselves on the field. If a good manager comes on board at this stage with access to an experienced squad with hugely exciting youngsters coming through, they would have been flying. Unfortunately we ended up with Kenny instead of a good manager.

Of the 15 players you highlighted from the last Denmark match squad, Kenny had all of them available to him except Glenn Whelan. He had McGoldrick! You're on a mad rant and not making much sense. McGoldrick played 14 times for Ireland and scored 1 goal. Cullen made his big improvements when he moved to Anderlecht. Kenny had the benefits of this along with the return of Obefami and the breakthroughs of those players you mention Molumby, O'Shea, Collins, Kelleher, Knight, Ogbene, Bazunu, Omabamidele. McCarthy had a midfield of Whelan, Hourihane and Hendrick for comparison. And he introduced Parrott and Connolly for your information.

The senior managers job is to get the most out of what he has available to him and Kenny hasn't come anywhere near that. I don't think that is up for debate. Underage development is a huge issue but Kenny has nothing to do with that anymore. Dropping us down the rankings won't help though. You're talking about not wanting the FAI to waste money but fail to realise that they have wasted a large amount of money on Stephen Kenny. Not only on his salary but the failed qualification campaigns have cost us much needed financial resources. It's been a disaster. We'll be in a better position to actually compete for qualification when Kenny goes and we get someone competent in charge.

[ontheotherhand]

Great news on Ferguson.

I'd like to see us go back to 4 3 3 for this. You'd be comfortable enough with Coleman and McClean getting forward to play right and left of midfield when we have the ball and allowing Knight to make his runs past the front 3.

-------------Bazunu
Coleman Collins Egan McClean
---Molumby Cullen Knight
---Ogbene Ferguson Obafemi

Give that 45 minutes and then bring in Parrot, Sykes and Smallbone. Cullen needs to be protected but I don't see anyone in the squad who I know can do that job well enough. Maybe try pushing Collins into midfield for 20 or 30 minutes of the second half. That won't happen but I'd like to see it.

[backstothewall]

Kenny confirms in press conference today that Ferguson will start V Latvia tomorrow night

Does Kenny ever get anything right? He shouldn't be anywhere near the pitch tomorrow :mad:

Absolute certainty that he pick's up an injury and misses Monday playing a stupid game that's only significant to one desperate man .

[Jd2793]

Does Kenny ever get anything right? He shouldn't be anywhere near the pitch tomorrow :mad:

Absolute certainty that he pick's up an injury and misses Monday playing a stupid game that's only significant to one desperate man .


id wager you'd have been moaning if he hadnt played with a reactionary comment like that. the only guy who shouldnt be on the pitch tomorrow is cullen given he has clocked up 4k minutes this season. ferguson has rarely completed a 90, 60 mins under his belt will do him no harm tomorrow.

[Razors left peg]

Does Kenny ever get anything right? He shouldn't be anywhere near the pitch tomorrow :mad:

Absolute certainty to pick up an injury and miss Monday.

Kenny has 100% got this right. Ferguson is a football player, he should play football. You cant baby him and not even let him train in case he gets injured. He has never started a game for Ireland so its no harm to get the nerves of his 1st start out of the way, and also he will get used to playing with the other players.

Kenny gets hammered for his team selections often enough, by me too, for picking what we think in the wrong team, picking his best striker to play a game isnt effing one of them.

Every single Ireland fan going to that game tomorrow will be buzzing to see Ferguson and would be disappointed if he didnt play

[zero]

Kenny has 100% got this right. Ferguson is a football player, he should play football. You cant baby him and not even let him train in case he gets injured. He has never started a game for Ireland so its no harm to get the nerves of his 1st start out of the way, and also he will get used to playing with the other players.

Kenny gets hammered for his team selections often enough, by me too, for picking what we think in the wrong team, picking his best striker to play a game isnt effing one of them.

Every single Ireland fan going to that game tomorrow will be buzzing to see Ferguson and would be disappointed if he didnt play

Agreed - I'd be annoyed if he plays the full 94/95 mins but absolutely give him 60 / 65 mins. My main concern re Ferguson is that Kenny will misuse him by isolating him up front, he needs game time to work out how best to use his talents.

[backstothewall]

Every single Ireland fan going to that game tomorrow will be buzzing to see Ferguson and would be disappointed if he didnt play

Factually incorrect. There's at least one person going tomorrow who will be disappointed to see him play. But I'd wager there will be a lot more than me walking down London Bridge Road tomorrow who think this is mind-numbing stupidity.

It isn't just the question of injuries.

Friendlies are worthwhile to bed in new systems or try players in different roles, but there's nothing to be learned here. He's going to be our #1 forward for the foreseeable future barring injury or a truly special talent emerging out of nowhere.

The only thing that might give Didier Deschamps any nagging concern about our team is Ferguson and how he might take to international football. We absolutely shouldn't be showing our hand in that regard.

[Razors left peg]

Agreed - I'd be annoyed if he plays the full 94/95 mins but absolutely give him 60 / 65 mins. My main concern re Ferguson is that Kenny will misuse him by isolating him up front, he needs game time to work out how best to use his talents.

Perfect scenario for me would be him and Obafemi developing a partnership and as you said coming off after 60 minutes having played brilliantly. This is why I'd also start our best team so we dont have gapping holes in midfield with no service coming from the likes of Hendrick and Browne.

[ontheotherhand]

He's a kid who has barely kicked a ball at international level not some 34 year old veteran with bogey knees. He can handle 45 minutes to get more gametime with his teammates and try out whatever we are working on in training.

[Razors left peg]

Factually incorrect. There's at least one person going tomorrow who will be disappointed to see him play. But I'd wager there will be a lot more than me walking down London Bridge Road tomorrow who think this is mind-numbing stupidity.

It isn't just the question of injuries.

Friendlies are worthwhile to bed in new systems or try players in different roles, but there's nothing to be learned here. He's going to be our #1 forward for the foreseeable future barring injury or a truly special talent emerging out of nowhere.

The only thing that might give Didier Deschamps any nagging concern about our team is Ferguson and how he might take to international football. We absolutely shouldn't be showing our hand in that regard.

Grand so there's one misery guts going tomorrow hoping we don't see the most exciting player we've had in years ;)

[Jd2793]

Factually incorrect. There's at least one person going tomorrow who will be disappointed to see him play. But I'd wager there will be a lot more than me walking down London Bridge Road tomorrow who think this is mind-numbing stupidity.

It isn't just the question of injuries.

Friendlies are worthwhile to bed in new systems or try players in different roles, but there's nothing to be learned here. He's going to be our #1 forward for the foreseeable future barring injury or a truly special talent emerging out of nowhere.

The only thing that might give Didier Deschamps any nagging concern about our team is Ferguson and how he might take to international football. We absolutely shouldn't be showing our hand in that regard.

oh yea id be worried about showing our hand with ferguson alright. not like france have any evidence so far on how he plays...

[backstothewall]

He's a kid who has barely kicked a ball at international level not some 34 year old veteran with bogey knees. He can handle 45 minutes to get more gametime with his teammates and try out whatever we are working on in training.

We're going to play 4-5-1 and he's going to be completely isolated for extended periods against France. Once we lose the ball, which we will do, we aren't going to get it back for a while. That's inevitable. When he gets the ball his job will be to hold it up and give one of the back 9 time to get to him and offer support.

How on earth does a game against Latvia prepare him for that?

If France play to their potential they will beat us easily. Maybe they're a bit flat after a battle with the Dutch and we get them on an off night. Then we have a chance of getting something. "whatever we are working on in training" should consist mainly of being ready for a French onslaught, which he should have precious little to do with. If we have something lined up to try in attack or from a set piece, once again, we absolutely shouldn't be offering any previews to the French in a nothing game against Latvia.

This all stinks of Kenny being able to get out of the window saying "Awk you know France are a top class outfit and there wouldn't have been many expecting us to get a result against them. But we've had a good week and a win against Latvia and now we move on to the game in Athens in June".

[Jd2793]

We're going to play 4-5-1 and he's going to be completely isolated for extended periods against France. Once we lose the ball, which we will do, we aren't going to get it back for a while. That's inevitable. When he gets the ball his job will be to hold it up and give one of the back 9 time to get to him and offer support.

How on earth does a game against Latvia prepare him for that?.


4-5-1? what?

this might shock you but footballers are quite well able to adjust to playing different opponents and fulfilling different roles within a team it happens nearly every week. its like saying he shouldnt play against bournemouth because he has man city the following week....

[Razors left peg]

If we put out a B team against Latvia and played shyte people would be all over Kenny because "its a results business". He can't win with some people.

Ferguson is a kid, any minutes on the pitch playing with new team mates helps. If he got a goal or 2 imagine his confidence going into the France game. He'd be flying. Confidence is everything for a striker. There's an absolute clear benefit for him playing tomorrow

[SkStu]

Grand so there's one misery guts going tomorrow hoping we don't see the most exciting player we've had in years ;)

I actually thought the post was dripping in sarcasm.

[Kingdom]

[QUOTE]It was perfectly set up for the next manager coming in after McCarthy because his reign was quite poor but we still came very close to qualification.
His reign was sh!t. I mean, we came close to qualification by not losing any games, didn't win too many either. I prefer my players knuckles not to be bleeding after a game.


Please read what I'm saying, not what you think I'm saying. After McCarthy and a few previous campaigns, supporters and more importantly, the players were crying out to be allowed express themselves on the field.

Give me some examples of good managers that we should have approached after McCarthy* that wouldn't have crippled the organisation, and would have allowed our squad of ball-players to express themselves in a manner sufficient of qualifying.

*massive qualifer insinuated there.


If a good manager comes on board at this stage with access to an experienced squad with hugely exciting youngsters coming through, they would have been flying. Unfortunately we ended up with Kenny instead of a good manager.
At that stage (when Mick was leaving? don't forget the qualifier) or at this stage (currently, i.e. 2023)?


Of the 15 players you highlighted from the last Denmark match squad, Kenny had all of them available to him except Glenn Whelan.
I mean, technically Jack Charlton had Don Givens available to him when he took over in 86...


He had McGoldrick! You're on a mad rant and not making much sense. McGoldrick played 14 times for Ireland and scored 1 goal. Cullen made his big improvements when he moved to Anderlecht. Kenny had the benefits of this along with the return of Obefami and the breakthroughs of those players you mention Molumby, O'Shea, Collins, Kelleher, Knight, Ogbene, Bazunu, Omabamidele. McCarthy had a midfield of Whelan, Hourihane and Hendrick for comparison. And he introduced Parrott and Connolly for your information.

Stephen Kenny had his first match in charge in Sept 2020. Didsy retired in Nov 2020. I don't know if you're trying to double dismiss the point that he was available, but was ****e, or that he became unavailable because of Kenny? Either way, he was one of the few shining lights in the pre-Kenny era, who wasn't utilised correctly, but was old. And Kenny didn't get to utilise him in a meaningful way like his predecessors in the job did, with their keystone players. But then again, you conveniently disregarded that absolutely key point in my argument, didn't you?
Mick McCarthy was gang-pressed into using Troy Parrot, who got bullied vs New Zealand by Winston Reid, a low point for me. Similar to how Martin O'Neill was gang-pressed into capping Michael Obafemi and then jettisoning him like you would a
I don't know what your reference to McCarthy having a midfield of Whelan, Hourihane and Hendrick means? Is this a positive for Mick, or a negative? It's hardly a plus for Kenny given your M.O. I would contend, that losing the kernel of every Irish teams defensive strategy in midfield for a decade would count as a blow to an incoming manager,* particularly when the previous manager hasn't really provided an alternative, unless of course we're considering James McCarthy who of course Kenny had hoped vocally to plan midfield around but is crocked.
*if you don't, then I don't really know what to say

Of the players you mention ("Molumby (41), O'Shea (17), Collins (17), Kelleher (0), Knight (31), Ogbene (6), Bazunu (0), Omabamidele(0)") they had a total of 112 appearances at Championship level and almost 0 caps. I would think that's a tall order for a new manager under any circumstance, and a rebuilding exercise beyond any previous referrable era. Certainly it was a worse proposition than Mick Vol 1 had to deal with, with less experienced players coming in, and without the calibre of player retained.
And by the way son, I'm 22 years on this forum, that post wasn't a mad rant, but it's not a throwaway post to say i disagree either. The great thing dismissing any debate and behaving like Dunphy on a forum is that you can post like you're throwing a pen across a desk in Montrose. If I simply refute that by saying you're wrong, that's not debate, it's the equivalent of taking Liya Silver to a BlackedRaw shoot and asking her to judge the biggest of two baby arms inside her. It's futile.


The senior managers job is to get the most out of what he has available to him and Kenny hasn't come anywhere near that. I don't think that is up for debate. Underage development is a huge issue but Kenny has nothing to do with that anymore. Dropping us down the rankings won't help though. You're talking about not wanting the FAI to waste money but fail to realise that they have wasted a large amount of money on Stephen Kenny. Not only on his salary but the failed qualification campaigns have cost us much needed financial resources. It's been a disaster.
We'd already had two failed campaigns that were waaaaaaay more financially disasterous under two previous managers than what Kenny has, simply because you state it like we absolutely would have qualified with a different manager. It's not a given, no matter how many times you state it. Yet you're the one saying things aren't up for debate. You're working on suppositions.


We'll be in a better position to actually compete for qualification when Kenny goes and we get someone competent in charge.
Name them. Realistic and affordable.


this post is the mad rant.

[Kingdom]

Does Kenny ever get anything right? He shouldn't be anywhere near the pitch tomorrow :mad:

Absolute certainty that he pick's up an injury and misses Monday playing a stupid game that's only significant to one desperate man .

I am working on the assumption that this was sarcasm too :-)

[Kingdom]

4-5-1? what?

this might shock you but footballers are quite well able to adjust to playing different opponents and fulfilling different roles within a team it happens nearly every week. its like saying he shouldnt play against bournemouth because he has man city the following week....

I say this slightly tongue-in-cheek, but have you seen Ireland the past 30 years?

[Razors left peg]

I actually thought the post was dripping in sarcasm.

You thought backtothewall wasn't being serious when he said Ferguson shouldn't play?

[ontheotherhand]

We're going to play 4-5-1 and he's going to be completely isolated for extended periods against France. Once we lose the ball, which we will do, we aren't going to get it back for a while. That's inevitable. When he gets the ball his job will be to hold it up and give one of the back 9 time to get to him and offer support.

How on earth does a game against Latvia prepare him for that?

If France play to their potential they will beat us easily. Maybe they're a bit flat after a battle with the Dutch and we get them on an off night. Then we have a chance of getting something. "whatever we are working on in training" should consist mainly of being ready for a French onslaught, which he should have precious little to do with. If we have something lined up to try in attack or from a set piece, once again, we absolutely shouldn't be offering any previews to the French in a nothing game against Latvia.

This all stinks of Kenny being able to get out of the window saying "Awk you know France are a top class outfit and there wouldn't have been many expecting us to get a result against them. But we've had a good week and a win against Latvia and now we move on to the game in Athens in June".


Unless you're going to quickly arrange us a friendly against better opposition Latvia is what we have to work with. Maybe you are taking the **** though? Can't really believe anyone would not want to see Ferguson get another cap and more minutes with the team. Resting him and heaping the pressure on for what you've already said will be a brutal task against the French offers no benefits for me. We still don't even know which front 2/3 work best together. Any minutes against any team is better than nothing.

[SkStu]

You thought backtothewall wasn't being serious when he said Ferguson shouldn't play?

I did. I thought that anyone that posted something like that (didn’t even notice who), would surely be taking the p*ss. Unfortunately, no.

[elatedscum]

No idea who any of them are, other than Marian Pahars on the coaching staff. Come to think of it I honestly don't think I know the name of a single other Latvian footballer other than him. I think there might have been a Latvian player signed by Arsenal once as a result of a training ground joke, but I can't think of his name (and he may not even have been Latvian!).

i have a pair of football boots that belonged to Artjoms Rudnevz, complete with Latvian flag (long story) that I guess he never wore cause he retired suddenly. He was pretty decent, at least by Latvian standards, scored a hat trick against Juve while playing in Poland and had a decent career in the bundesliga after that

[Kingdom]

No idea who any of them are, other than Marian Pahars on the coaching staff. Come to think of it I honestly don't think I know the name of a single other Latvian footballer other than him. I think there might have been a Latvian player signed by Arsenal once as a result of a training ground joke, but I can't think of his name (and he may not even have been Latvian!).

Surely it was Igor Stepanovs, and it wasn't a joke, but became the joke.

and don't call me surely.

[Eirambler]

I looked it up and it was indeed Igors Stepanovs. It's a well enough known story at this stage I think but he was only signed as a result of a training ground prank as explained by Ray Parlour:

"Arsene was so clever at identifying great players to come in, but there were one or two gambles that didn’t quite come off.

In the summer of 2000 a player turned up on trial at our pre-season tour. He was a tall centre-half.

“Now, Martin Keown was always worried about people coming in to steal his position. If we had a centre-half on trial, Martin would say he was useless.

“This big guy from Latvia, Igors Stepanovs, turned up. He was a unit, but seriously, he was not up to standard.”

A few of us were on the bench watching as he played in this trial game. Stepanovs is out there and every single pass he made, the boys started applauding, just because we knew Martin would be getting a bit steamed up by it.

“Dennis Bergkamp was sitting behind Arsene and kept doling out these compliments about this defender – ‘Great header! Unbelievable tackle!’

“Igors kicked this one ball 20 yards away from where it was meant to go but it still went to one of our players so we all stood up clapping.

Martin’s muttering: ‘He’s not that good.’ He started to point out where he missed a tackle or a header.

That night we went for dinner and laughed about it as we were only trying to wind Martin up. We all knew Igors was nowhere near the standards set by Tony Adams, Martin and Bouldy.

“But Martin is such an easy target because he bites. Once someone bites it’s too tempting.

“When we got back to the training ground at London Colney a week later we had a surprise though. Igors was sitting there.

I said: ‘What are you doing here?’ ‘They signed me,’ he said. ‘Four-year contract.’

[JR89]

If we put out a B team against Latvia and played shyte people would be all over Kenny because "its a results business". He can't win with some people.

Ferguson is a kid, any minutes on the pitch playing with new team mates helps. If he got a goal or 2 imagine his confidence going into the France game. He'd be flying. Confidence is everything for a striker. There's an absolute clear benefit for him playing tomorrow

Especially coming into a team that aren't a patch on Brighton. Won't have Mitoma, Mac Allister, and March to link up with.

The more minutes the better for Ferguson while he adapts to a different system and new teammates.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

[QUOTE=BOOMSHAKALAKA;2142194]
His reign was sh!t. I mean, we came close to qualification by not losing any games, didn't win too many either. I prefer my players knuckles not to be bleeding after a game.



Give me some examples of good managers that we should have approached after McCarthy* that wouldn't have crippled the organisation, and would have allowed our squad of ball-players to express themselves in a manner sufficient of qualifying.

*massive qualifer insinuated there.


At that stage (when Mick was leaving? don't forget the qualifier) or at this stage (currently, i.e. 2023)?


I mean, technically Jack Charlton had Don Givens available to him when he took over in 86...



Stephen Kenny had his first match in charge in Sept 2020. Didsy retired in Nov 2020. I don't know if you're trying to double dismiss the point that he was available, but was ****e, or that he became unavailable because of Kenny? Either way, he was one of the few shining lights in the pre-Kenny era, who wasn't utilised correctly, but was old. And Kenny didn't get to utilise him in a meaningful way like his predecessors in the job did, with their keystone players. But then again, you conveniently disregarded that absolutely key point in my argument, didn't you?
Mick McCarthy was gang-pressed into using Troy Parrot, who got bullied vs New Zealand by Winston Reid, a low point for me. Similar to how Martin O'Neill was gang-pressed into capping Michael Obafemi and then jettisoning him like you would a
I don't know what your reference to McCarthy having a midfield of Whelan, Hourihane and Hendrick means? Is this a positive for Mick, or a negative? It's hardly a plus for Kenny given your M.O. I would contend, that losing the kernel of every Irish teams defensive strategy in midfield for a decade would count as a blow to an incoming manager,* particularly when the previous manager hasn't really provided an alternative, unless of course we're considering James McCarthy who of course Kenny had hoped vocally to plan midfield around but is crocked.
*if you don't, then I don't really know what to say

Of the players you mention ("Molumby (41), O'Shea (17), Collins (17), Kelleher (0), Knight (31), Ogbene (6), Bazunu (0), Omabamidele(0)") they had a total of 112 appearances at Championship level and almost 0 caps. I would think that's a tall order for a new manager under any circumstance, and a rebuilding exercise beyond any previous referrable era. Certainly it was a worse proposition than Mick Vol 1 had to deal with, with less experienced players coming in, and without the calibre of player retained.
And by the way son, I'm 22 years on this forum, that post wasn't a mad rant, but it's not a throwaway post to say i disagree either. The great thing dismissing any debate and behaving like Dunphy on a forum is that you can post like you're throwing a pen across a desk in Montrose. If I simply refute that by saying you're wrong, that's not debate, it's the equivalent of taking Liya Silver to a BlackedRaw shoot and asking her to judge the biggest of two baby arms inside her. It's futile.


We'd already had two failed campaigns that were waaaaaaay more financially disasterous under two previous managers than what Kenny has, simply because you state it like we absolutely would have qualified with a different manager. It's not a given, no matter how many times you state it. Yet you're the one saying things aren't up for debate. You're working on suppositions.


Name them. Realistic and affordable.


this post is the mad rant.

You're saying McCarthy's reign was **** but not saying the same about Kenny's even though it's been far worse. You deny that you're a fanboy but that's not really coming across. Before the Luxembourg home game you were saying it's a gimme. Afterwards, you changed your tune. Kenny inherited a squad who were mostly in their late 20's. In their prime. He had the exact same squad as Mick had bar Glenn Whelan, added to with a huge list of young talent and what did he achieve? We could barely score a goal and were left miles behind the heavyweights Wales and Finland while also getting knocked out of the Euros by Slovakia. As I said, McCarty's time wasn't great but at least he stood on his own two feet. Kenny had to get the Chelsea coach in to sort formations and style of play. So if you're looking for someone who could have come in, why not look at Anthony Barry?

Your key point is keystone players? McGoldrick? He played 14 times for Ireland and some of those 14 were when Kenny was in charge! :D It's hilarious how far things have to be stretched to defend Kenny. McCarthy was gang pressed into picking young players but Kenny is a prophet for picking young players. You're acting as if Kenny's time hasn't been one failure after the next. Failed to qualify for Euro 2020, nearly came bottom in 2 Nations League campaigns, same with the World Cup campaign, he's lost to Luxembourg and Armenia, drawn with Azerbaijan and all this with a better squad than his predecessor! So you can rant away for another 22 years if you want, the actual facts will defeat you every time.

[CraftyToePoke]

Doherty will be captain tomorrow.
Ferguson will play.
That leaves nine spots.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023/0321/1365542-a-great-honour-doherty-handed-armband-for-latvia/

[backstothewall]

If we put out a B team against Latvia and played shyte people would be all over Kenny because "its a results business". He can't win with some people.

He could always put out a B side that's easily good enough to beat Latvia and do so without any fuss. It's Latvia for goodness sake.



131 Antigua and Barbuda
132 Central African Republic
133 Latvia
134 Philippines
135 Turkmenistan

That some of you are talking about these lads as if there should be any hint of a worry about something going wrong tomorrow shows just what a disaster we've become under Kenny. The mental scars of getting turned over by Luxembourg and all that obviously haven't fully healed yet.

Our second string should be beating them without any fuss. It would be particularly good for the guys who show up for every squad to sit on the bench to get a decent run out and feel involved. But by the sounds of it we're going to have quite a few of the first 11 involved because he's terrified of losing to a side who don't have anything like the players we have available to us.

[Razors left peg]

"It's Latvia for goodness sake"....
It's only Georgia, its only Gibraltar, it's only Luxembourg, It's only Qatar, it's only Luxembourg, it's only Azerbaijan, its only Malta...

In case you haven't noticed, we haven't had the right to dismiss any team for quite some time, under different managers.

And even with all of that I do think we should win with whatever team is picked but let's get the new campaign off to a positive start tomorrow with a good win and performance and then take some momentum into Monday.

COYBIG

[ontheotherhand]

He could always put out a B side that's easily good enough to beat Latvia and do so without any fuss. It's Latvia for goodness sake.



That some of you are talking about these lads as if there should be any hint of a worry about something going wrong tomorrow shows just what a disaster we've become under Kenny. The mental scars of getting turned over by Luxembourg and all that obviously haven't fully healed yet.

Our second string should be beating them without any fuss. It would be particularly good for the guys who show up for every squad to sit on the bench to get a decent run out and feel involved. But by the sounds of it we're going to have quite a few of the first 11 involved because he's terrified of losing to a side who don't have anything like the players we have available to us.


Who is suggesting that? People are saying Ferguson should play regardless of the opposition. You'd swear the lad was already an established, record holding goalscorer for us the way you're talking. We don't need him against Latvia but he needs caps and minutes and maybe not to have his first start be in a WC qualifier against the French with the hopes of a nation on his shoulders already. He's 18. Let him get another game in and maybe even a goal before we "unleash" him against the WC runners up.

Genuinely don't get why you'd choose this as a major issue. I suppose it helps the anti-Kenny narrative but it's by far the least controversial selection he's made for a while now! I'd be more annoyed about Doherty being selected as captain. I've never seen the lad display any sort of leadership on the field or display any maturity in interviews etc that makes me think he's a good choice.

[elatedscum]

I’d assume that Doc captaining means no Coleman, no Egan and probably no Jimmy Mac. So if he’s playing a back 5:

Doherty Omobamidele Collins O’Shea O’Dowda

[tetsujin1979]

He could always put out a B side that's easily good enough to beat Latvia and do so without any fuss. It's Latvia for goodness sake.



That some of you are talking about these lads as if there should be any hint of a worry about something going wrong tomorrow shows just what a disaster we've become under Kenny. The mental scars of getting turned over by Luxembourg and all that obviously haven't fully healed yet.

Our second string should be beating them without any fuss. It would be particularly good for the guys who show up for every squad to sit on the bench to get a decent run out and feel involved. But by the sounds of it we're going to have quite a few of the first 11 involved because he's terrified of losing to a side who don't have anything like the players we have available to us.Latvia have a decent away record recently. In the last three years, they've only lost to the Netherlands, Germany, and strangely Estonia. That Estonian game was their last away loss, and it came in June 2021. Granted, they haven't beaten anyone except minnows in the same timeframe - San Marino, Andorra, Gibraltar, Azerbaijan, Moldova, and Liechtenstein - and only drew with Andorra in their last away game, in September.
Remember - our home record hasn't been stellar, although it is improving. We did win three of the six home games last year, so I'm not saying I expect a loss, just that it's not going to be as comfortable as the FIFA rankings might suggest.

[Kingdom]

You're saying McCarthy's reign was **** but not saying the same about Kenny's even though it's been far worse. You deny that you're a fanboy but that's not really coming across.

I'm an Ireland fanboy, obsessed with it, with all aspects of it and have been for years. I'm not a Kenny fanboy. He's a terrible front, his media performances are awful and are a serious impediment in the eyes of the public, because there will be some natural assumption that because he's uncomfortable in front of a camera, he won't be able to communicate to professional footballers. I don't believe that to be the case. I was also an adult when Brian Kerr was manager, and it was clear towards the end of his reign that senior players didn't believe in him. That's not the case in the present. It's not even close to the case now. I like Kenny because he's genuine, has some very good coaching routines, and knows how to punch above his weight. I think it was wrong to have designed the contracts that pulled him from the 21s midway through, as I think he'd have qualified them for the finals, and that to me was the more realistic goal. That's the past.

I like Kenny because there are glimpses that he is getting messages across to the players on what they should do and should not do. I was privileged to get to see some FAI/Ireland underage training/coaching sessions over the years. Troy Parrots goal in Dublin (can't remember who it was against) where Obafemi pulled the defender and two attacking players drew the covering players was an FAI training ground move. As soon as the two Irish wide players started to move, you could see what it was. The same with the 3rd goal in Luxembourg I think. That is an FAI move that kids learn from a young age (14/15) and it was translated into the senior team. So I think Kenny deserves a break. I struggle to understand peoples failure to grasp how low the stock of Irish footballers has dropped in the past 10 years. It is a nadir. And like it or not, we are used to playing **** football by and large for 20 years. And whether you like it or not, **** football - i.e. giving possession constantly back to the opposition - gets punished badly these days. It is not 1990.


Before the Luxembourg home game you were saying it's a gimme. Afterwards, you changed your tune.
I don't deny that I said Luxembourg at home was a gimme. I was of the opinion that our team's ability, particular the younger players, would be very confident going into the game of a win. I was wrong. It's ok to admit that. However, during that time (Not that's in anyway appropriate to be discussing personal business on a public forum, but I'll do it for once here) I happened to be in Luxembourg a few times a year, and a colleague of mine, her husband was the chairman of one of their big clubs until he died a few years ago. She's very knowledgable about Luxembourg and Irish football. She was advising of the work being done in underage football in Luxembourg, particularly taking advantage of the large (relatively speaking) migrant community there. There are links with Metz and Eintracht and Liege I think with their youth teams so that they are getting quality coaching.



Kenny inherited a squad who were mostly in their late 20's. In their prime. He had the exact same squad as Mick had bar Glenn Whelan, added to with a huge list of young talent and what did he achieve? We could barely score a goal and were left miles behind the heavyweights Wales and Finland while also getting knocked out of the Euros by Slovakia. As I said, McCarty's time wasn't great but at least he stood on his own two feet. Kenny had to get the Chelsea coach in to sort formations and style of play. So if you're looking for someone who could have come in, why not look at Anthony Barry?

So all this time that you're saying "get rid, get rid" the sole example of someone we should bring in is "the Chelsea coach" the current manager brought in, who left us at the first opportunity to assist an absolute bluffer who is despised in Belgium and who was so good, he was booted out by the Belgian FA as part of a house-clearing exercise a few months ago? That's the sole name you could come up, in the year you've been calling for Kenny's head? Do yourself a favour child and go away and do some bloody research to back up your points and then come back and have a conversation


Your key point is keystone players? McGoldrick? He played 14 times for Ireland and some of those 14 were when Kenny was in charge! :D
Didsy was the sole positive offensive unit during McCarthy's time. Maybe you can't understand that. Regardless of how many times he played for Ireland - that isn't Kenny's fault. It's the fault of coaches before him who couldn't utilise him better.
You don't think having a keystone player, a fulcrum is important to a National football team and being successful? If you say no, then you're a lost cause. By and large, no irish player right now - perhaps one exception (Ferguson) and I don't necessarily believe he is - is a fulcrum of their club team in a top division in the country they play in. Probably not in any division they play in (perhaps Cullen).
If you have 0 players, who know what it is like to get a team moving in the right direction or how to influence play in the opposition half, it is a very tall order to impose your style of play. You ask players to play beyond themselves. And that's where we're at right now and have been for a good while. That takes time to change. But I believe it will, with Kenny or without.


It's hilarious how far things have to be stretched to defend Kenny. McCarthy was gang pressed into picking young players but Kenny is a prophet for picking young players. You're acting as if Kenny's time hasn't been one failure after the next. Failed to qualify for Euro 2020, nearly came bottom in 2 Nations League campaigns, same with the World Cup campaign, he's lost to Luxembourg and Armenia, drawn with Azerbaijan and all this with a better squad than his predecessor! So you can rant away for another 22 years if you want, the actual facts will defeat you every time.

The hilarity is your inability to illustrate any capacity that your dogged haranguing of our Senior mens team manager could be in any way flawed. I repeat what I said in an earlier post - you work in absolute's and it's fanatical I'd nearly go so far as to call it peak barstoolerism. The above paragraph is a prime example. You say that it is hilarious how stretched the defence of Kenny has become. You yourself in a list of failures, use one absolute - failure to qualify for Euro 2020 which his predecessor did - while using an 'almost' in the next point.

What I judge is our players, and what a manager can get from them. We have players who quite simply have underperformed in nearly all pressure situations since Euro 2016. That is undeniable.
I actually don't know how you can say this manager has better squads than his predecessors.

[backstothewall]

Latvia have a decent away record recently. In the last three years, they've only lost to the Netherlands, Germany, and strangely Estonia. That Estonian game was their last away loss, and it came in June 2021. Granted, they haven't beaten anyone except minnows in the same timeframe - San Marino, Andorra, Gibraltar, Azerbaijan, Moldova, and Liechtenstein - and only drew with Andorra in their last away game, in September.
Remember - our home record hasn't been stellar, although it is improving. We did win three of the six home games last year, so I'm not saying I expect a loss, just that it's not going to be as comfortable as the FIFA rankings might suggest.

All true. But my point is that it shouldn't be like this. I could accept the mediocre performances when I thought they were leading somewhere. We were at least, finally, passing the ball, and a lot of new young players were getting their chance. But at some point that has to evolve into some progress results, and we're well past the time when that should have happened. And now Kenny is so desperate for a result he's seemingly given up on the progression of new players in favour of a desperate push for results to try to take the bad look off the record.

Even for a second string this should be an easy win buy at least a couple of goals. It could have been a chance to hand out a debut or two and let the likes of Kelleher, Omobamidele, Sykes and Keane get a start.

------------------ Kelleher ------------------
Ebosele Omobamidele O'Shea McClean (c)
Sykes - Molumby - Smallbone - Hamilton
--------------- Parrott Keane ---------------

That side should beat Latvia, who have only a handful of guys playing outside their domestic league. We could maybe have involved someone like Tom Cannon from the bench and then let him and Ebosele drop down to the U21s. Meanwhile, the first team could have spent the entire week preparing for France and focusing on that.

But that's doesn't appear to be what's happening unfortunately. We seem to be going into the week worrying about not getting beat at home in a friendly against what can only be described as a minnow. I get the context of what has gone before but looking backwards like that is a dangerous business. What's done is done. While it's important to learn from the mistakes that have been made, the focus needs to be on the future.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I'm an Ireland fanboy, obsessed with it, with all aspects of it and have been for years. I'm not a Kenny fanboy. He's a terrible front, his media performances are awful and are a serious impediment in the eyes of the public, because there will be some natural assumption that because he's uncomfortable in front of a camera, he won't be able to communicate to professional footballers. I don't believe that to be the case. I was also an adult when Brian Kerr was manager, and it was clear towards the end of his reign that senior players didn't believe in him. That's not the case in the present. It's not even close to the case now. I like Kenny because he's genuine, has some very good coaching routines, and knows how to punch above his weight. I think it was wrong to have designed the contracts that pulled him from the 21s midway through, as I think he'd have qualified them for the finals, and that to me was the more realistic goal. That's the past.

I like Kenny because there are glimpses that he is getting messages across to the players on what they should do and should not do. I was privileged to get to see some FAI/Ireland underage training/coaching sessions over the years. Troy Parrots goal in Dublin (can't remember who it was against) where Obafemi pulled the defender and two attacking players drew the covering players was an FAI training ground move. As soon as the two Irish wide players started to move, you could see what it was. The same with the 3rd goal in Luxembourg I think. That is an FAI move that kids learn from a young age (14/15) and it was translated into the senior team. So I think Kenny deserves a break. I struggle to understand peoples failure to grasp how low the stock of Irish footballers has dropped in the past 10 years. It is a nadir. And like it or not, we are used to playing **** football by and large for 20 years. And whether you like it or not, **** football - i.e. giving possession constantly back to the opposition - gets punished badly these days. It is not 1990.


I don't deny that I said Luxembourg at home was a gimme. I was of the opinion that our team's ability, particular the younger players, would be very confident going into the game of a win. I was wrong. It's ok to admit that. However, during that time (Not that's in anyway appropriate to be discussing personal business on a public forum, but I'll do it for once here) I happened to be in Luxembourg a few times a year, and a colleague of mine, her husband was the chairman of one of their big clubs until he died a few years ago. She's very knowledgable about Luxembourg and Irish football. She was advising of the work being done in underage football in Luxembourg, particularly taking advantage of the large (relatively speaking) migrant community there. There are links with Metz and Eintracht and Liege I think with their youth teams so that they are getting quality coaching.




So all this time that you're saying "get rid, get rid" the sole example of someone we should bring in is "the Chelsea coach" the current manager brought in, who left us at the first opportunity to assist an absolute bluffer who is despised in Belgium and who was so good, he was booted out by the Belgian FA as part of a house-clearing exercise a few months ago? That's the sole name you could come up, in the year you've been calling for Kenny's head? Do yourself a favour child and go away and do some bloody research to back up your points and then come back and have a conversation


Didsy was the sole positive offensive unit during McCarthy's time. Maybe you can't understand that. Regardless of how many times he played for Ireland - that isn't Kenny's fault. It's the fault of coaches before him who couldn't utilise him better.
You don't think having a keystone player, a fulcrum is important to a National football team and being successful? If you say no, then you're a lost cause. By and large, no irish player right now - perhaps one exception (Ferguson) and I don't necessarily believe he is - is a fulcrum of their club team in a top division in the country they play in. Probably not in any division they play in (perhaps Cullen).
If you have 0 players, who know what it is like to get a team moving in the right direction or how to influence play in the opposition half, it is a very tall order to impose your style of play. You ask players to play beyond themselves. And that's where we're at right now and have been for a good while. That takes time to change. But I believe it will, with Kenny or without.



The hilarity is your inability to illustrate any capacity that your dogged haranguing of our Senior mens team manager could be in any way flawed. I repeat what I said in an earlier post - you work in absolute's and it's fanatical I'd nearly go so far as to call it peak barstoolerism. The above paragraph is a prime example. You say that it is hilarious how stretched the defence of Kenny has become. You yourself in a list of failures, use one absolute - failure to qualify for Euro 2020 which his predecessor did - while using an 'almost' in the next point.

What I judge is our players, and what a manager can get from them. We have players who quite simply have underperformed in nearly all pressure situations since Euro 2016. That is undeniable.
I actually don't know how you can say this manager has better squads than his predecessors.

I'm an Ireland fanboy and the last 2/3 years have been the worst since the 70's. That you have to throw out insults shows that you're rattled and can't argue your point. It's also ironic that you're calling me a child when you post like an erratic teenager! :D

You post walls of text but your argument can be summed up by the usual Kenny supporters line, our players are crap and other teams are better than they used to be. Of course, this ignores the fact that many of the teams we've faced would love to have a squad like ours. We lost to Armenia, do you think they'd swap our squad for theirs?

You're trying to paint the picture that Kenny supporters are the deep thinkers with superior knowledge of the game, while anyone else is a barstooler. A very arrogant attitude that is actually reflected by Kenny himself. He has had 4 big failures in his time in charge. That is undeniable. And having the same squad as his predecessor plus some of the best emerging players in a generation means he has a stronger squad.

As for a replacement, it's not my job to come up with names. Barry is an option, Carsley has been mentioned. We could go outside the box and look for an Ange Postecoglou type but that could be all irrelevant as the FAI might go back to an old school English manager. And the fault for that would lie at Kenny's feet and those who appointed him. His reign has set us backwards and it could take a long time to recover.

[tetsujin1979]

Can you both take it to your respective inboxes? I'm getting eyestrain reading the quoted replies

[tetsujin1979]

All true. But my point is that it shouldn't be like this. I could accept the mediocre performances when I thought they were leading somewhere. We were at least, finally, passing the ball, and a lot of new young players were getting their chance. But at some point that has to evolve into some progress results, and we're well past the time when that should have happened. And now Kenny is so desperate for a result he's seemingly given up on the progression of new players in favour of a desperate push for results to try to take the bad look off the record.

Even for a second string this should be an easy win buy at least a couple of goals. It could have been a chance to hand out a debut or two and let the likes of Kelleher, Omobamidele, Sykes and Keane get a start.

------------------ Kelleher ------------------
Ebosele Omobamidele O'Shea McClean (c)
Sykes - Molumby - Smallbone - Hamilton
--------------- Parrott Keane ---------------

That side should beat Latvia, who have only a handful of guys playing outside their domestic league. We could maybe have involved someone like Tom Cannon from the bench and then let him and Ebosele drop down to the U21s. Meanwhile, the first team could have spent the entire week preparing for France and focusing on that.

But that's doesn't appear to be what's happening unfortunately. We seem to be going into the week worrying about not getting beat at home in a friendly against what can only be described as a minnow. I get the context of what has gone before but looking backwards like that is a dangerous business. What's done is done. While it's important to learn from the mistakes that have been made, the focus needs to be on the future.
I'm not really worried about getting beaten, I'm just not saying that it definitely won't happen.

What's bothering me a little is that the line that went around early in Kenny's time in charge, maybe even before it started, that Grealish/Rice/<insert name of promising player here> would have been capped by him before it became an issue has been proven untrue. Smallbone and Ebosele have both been unused subs twice, and now Cannon is in the U21 squad instead of the seniors.

[JR89]

I’d assume that Doc captaining means no Coleman, no Egan and probably no Jimmy Mac. So if he’s playing a back 5:

Doherty Omobamidele Collins O’Shea O’Dowda

No Cullen either you'd assume as he'd be my next choice of captain after Egan but McClean was given the captaincy ahead of him against Ukraine though. Definitely would have Cullen ahead of Doherty at least.

[texidub]

I hope Ogbene gets a chance beside Ferguson tonight. It's just a hunch, but I feel like he may be a better (more honest, and possibly less selfish) foil for Ferguson than Obafemi. If Obafemi works, great... but Ogbene deserves a shot too.

[backstothewall]

I'm not really worried about getting beaten, I'm just not saying that it definitely won't happen.

I'm worried about it. We're a wounded animal at the minute. Latvia know that. We would represent a very good scalp for them. That part of the reason why I would prefer a team made up of better players who won't have to play one game while considering another one.

Using Doherty as an example as we know he's going to play and I don't want to go over the Ferguson territory again (I'm not going to convnce anyone or change my own mind about that).

If I was in charge I would want Doherty to play against France. I imagine he will want to play against France, and will will be concerned about not picking up an injury tonight. If Latvia come to town intent on taking a robust approach to the game and tackles start flying in, we've all seen in the past how a team like Latvia can get a bit of momentum going and pull off a shock. Far better imho to give the opportunity of a run out at right back to Festy who would surely match his opposite number tackle for tackle without having any other concerns to deal with.

Ebosele has made a couple of squads as you say. If this game isn't the right opportunity to hand him a debut, what on earth is?


What's bothering me a little is that the line that went around early in Kenny's time in charge, maybe even before it started, that Grealish/Rice/<insert name of promising player here> would have been capped by him before it became an issue has been proven untrue. Smallbone and Ebosele have both been unused subs twice, and now Cannon is in the U21 squad instead of the seniors.

As I said above, I think the reason we're seeing this change in approach is a manager with a losing record trying to retrospectively take the bad look off the last campaign, rather than preparing for the next one. That approach is doomed to failure.

[passinginterest]

Looking forward to the game later, it should be a pretty exciting mix in the team. Doherty, Collins, Omobamidele need minutes so fairly certain they start. Kelleher probably in goal. I'll be surprised if it's not Obafemi beside Ferguson as that's the most likely two to start against France and Obafemi needs minutes while Ferguson needs to get the first start nerves out of him. I thought in his first games for the under 21s Ferguson suffered from trying too hard and that was probably down to nerves so good to give him a start to help deal with that. The middle three is where it will be interesting. Presume Cullen will be rested given the volume of minutes he has played. I'd like to see Smallbone in that role, I though he was good when played deeper for the 21s, although there might still be some questions to answer about his defensive qualities. Hard to guess who will actually start in the middle, it's still the weakest area of the team and also the area where the players work the hardest and need the most recovery time so probably the most likely area to rotate completely between the games.

[paul_oshea]

I hope Ogbene gets a chance beside Ferguson tonight. It's just a hunch, but I feel like he may be a better (more honest, and possibly less selfish) foil for Ferguson than Obafemi. If Obafemi works, great... but Ogbene deserves a shot too.

Ya I get what you are saying. I mentioned a few pages back 2/3 of ogbene, obafemi and parrot with ferguson. Id like to see a half of all 3 of those to be honest. Then rotate Ogbene for Parrott ( or the other way around). Problem there is obafemi might not be fit enough to last that long. But its an interesting combination, what ferguson lacks in pace the other two offer and what ogbene lacks in game astuteness and tactical nous Ferguson appears to have in spades. It's an exciting prospect for a game like tonights.

[Kingdom]

I'm an Ireland fanboy and the last 2/3 years have been the worst since the 70's. That you have to throw out insults shows that you're rattled and can't argue your point. It's also ironic that you're calling me a child when you post like an erratic teenager! :D

You post walls of text but your argument can be summed up by the usual Kenny supporters line, our players are crap and other teams are better than they used to be. Of course, this ignores the fact that many of the teams we've faced would love to have a squad like ours. We lost to Armenia, do you think they'd swap our squad for theirs?

You're trying to paint the picture that Kenny supporters are the deep thinkers with superior knowledge of the game, while anyone else is a barstooler. A very arrogant attitude that is actually reflected by Kenny himself. He has had 4 big failures in his time in charge. That is undeniable. And having the same squad as his predecessor plus some of the best emerging players in a generation means he has a stronger squad.

As for a replacement, it's not my job to come up with names. Barry is an option, Carsley has been mentioned. We could go outside the box and look for an Ange Postecoglou type but that could be all irrelevant as the FAI might go back to an old school English manager. And the fault for that would lie at Kenny's feet and those who appointed him. His reign has set us backwards and it could take a long time to recover.

Anyone calling for a manager's removal has the onus of responsibility to propose an alternative.

[DeLorean]

Two tickets to the game tonight free to a good home. Seated together in upper tier. PM if interested (first come, first served).

[elatedscum]

I'm not really worried about getting beaten, I'm just not saying that it definitely won't happen.

What's bothering me a little is that the line that went around early in Kenny's time in charge, maybe even before it started, that Grealish/Rice/<insert name of promising player here> would have been capped by him before it became an issue has been proven untrue. Smallbone and Ebosele have both been unused subs twice, and now Cannon is in the U21 squad instead of the seniors.

point taken - but i will say, the difference in talent between Rice and Grealish vs Smallbone, Ebosele, Hodge and Cannon is absolutely huge. Evan Ferguson is the only player to compare with their level of raw talent and he's been capped as quick as possible

[Eirambler]

Anyone calling for a manager's removal has the onus of responsibility to propose an alternative.

They really don't. It's not for supporters to propose managers when they have no idea who is available, interested or affordable. By all means, once names are linked, they can pass judgement, but proposing a new manager at this point is a nonsense really as (other than a report a while back that the FAI had spoken to Carsley) we have no idea who the likely candidates might be.

[SkStu]

Ya I get what you are saying. I mentioned a few pages back 2/3 of ogbene, obafemi and parrot with ferguson. Id like to see a half of all 3 of those to be honest. Then rotate Ogbene for Parrott ( or the other way around). Problem there is obafemi might not be fit enough to last that long. But its an interesting combination, what ferguson lacks in pace the other two offer and what ogbene lacks in game astuteness and tactical nous Ferguson appears to have in spades. It's an exciting prospect for a game like tonights.

I think Parrott would be the least effective beside Ferguson and think that the pace that both Obafemi and Ogbene bring would be very effective playing beside and around Evan. His touch and passing is very good - there were some really great flick passes he pulled off in a recent game so he sees the pitch and has great awareness of whats going on around him that i think could exploit their pace really well. Conversely, he is good in the box too and I can see games and goals where they've been played wide or into the box and Ferguson becomes the poacher. All in good time. My biggest fear in all this is that, as I think PassingInterest touched on, we are placing too much expectation on him. He'll be a top player for us but it wont happen overnight (cue hat-trick tonight - wishful thinking haha) so patience is the order of the day.

[Kingdom]

They really don't. It's not for supporters to propose managers when they have no idea who is available, interested or affordable. By all means, once names are linked, they can pass judgement, but proposing a new manager at this point is a nonsense really as (other than a report a while back that the FAI had spoken to Carsley) we have no idea who the likely candidates might be.

So, proposing a manager to be sacked without knowing the options/circumstances is acceptable, but proposing potential replacements is a nonsense?

[backstothewall]

Anyone calling for a manager's removal has the onus of responsibility to propose an alternative.

Lee Carsley
Stephen Reid

There's 2 potential, realistic replacements with suitable experience.

[JR89]

What's bothering me a little is that the line that went around early in Kenny's time in charge, maybe even before it started, that Grealish/Rice/<insert name of promising player here> would have been capped by him before it became an issue has been proven untrue. Smallbone and Ebosele have both been unused subs twice, and now Cannon is in the U21 squad instead of the seniors.

Where has it been proven untrue though. None of those players are near the levels Grealish and Rice were, and are either not good enough to jump ship or wanted by another nation.

Do think he should have included Cannon with the seniors when you consider Will Keane is the sixth named CF, but also don't think England are gonna try poach him. Whoever is the next manager alright will have issues.

You'd likely have to drop back down again to the U19s if you were actually looking to cap lads to avoid issues from being poached with Albania trying to get Zefi and Ferizaj to switch. There's never been anything mentioned about Vata but Carr has said Zefi has been approached, possibly more than once, and think Ferizaj's father said they offered a senior call up to his son but definitely trying to get him to switch.