UEFA Euro 2024 Qualifying Group B

[tetsujin1979]

Move on CSAD, it's getting tiresome. You've said your peace

[elatedscum]

Roughan is playing at a higher level than McClean and actually been playing as a wingback…if he’s not ready what does that make McClean?

I’m sorry a L2 35 year old is not our best LB, you and McClean should get a room at this rate tbh…

It is a given though, the minimum I would expect from a player is being committed to the cause, and I’m sorry but for all his commitment the rest of his game is severely lacking and once he decided to play L2 he should have been cut from the squad.

The fact we are looking to honour players when we’ve just come through a campaign losing 6 from 6 games just shows how much of a laughing stock are. If we are serious about improving we need to stock this emotional guff of honouring players just because they showed up and actually focusing on the future.

Every player in the squad is a Premiership,Championship,Eredivisie, Serie A level player and then you have McClean who’s a 35 year old playing in L2, he has absolutely no business being in this squad.

I've watched Roughan play a lot. He's not ready for international football - if you think he is, you're wrong. McClean would be playing in the championship if it weren't for the fact that 95% of clubs view his poppy stance as toxic to their fan base (or their fan base as toxic to his poppy stance). As for that position, McClean despite being 35 <EDIT: McCLEAN IS 34> is in far far better physical condition than Stevens, Brady, Coleman etc.

For that position, you've got

a) Manning - looked good across a game and a half against Greece and Gibraltar
b) McClean - has done pretty well, certainly surpassed expectations, generally one of the better performances on the pitch
c) Stevens - cooked at 33
d) Brady - good footballer but totally crocked
e) O'Dowda - can't defender and very injury prone
f) Scales - at international level and high club level, he's a centre half. Struggled against Greece playing LB and looked much better in the centre. Also struggled for Celtic at LWB

g) Bagan - hasn't really kicked on but could be good enough in a season or two
h) Roughan - he's still very raw, still makes mistakes - he'd be ripped apart by good international players. Good tackler, good left foot, good in the air - but he's probably 2 years from being ready - and right now the technical deficiencies in his game would really hurt him attacking as well
i) Adaramola - very talented but career has stalled. Question marks over attitude but maybe unfounded.
j) Furlong - also could be good enough but the first step is to start playing football and maybe become first choice for the 21s

[CSAD]

I've watched Roughan play a lot. He's not ready for international football - if you think he is, you're wrong. McClean would be playing in the championship if it weren't for the fact that 95% of clubs view his poppy stance as toxic to their fan base (or their fan base as toxic to his poppy stance). As for that position, McClean despite being 35 is in far far better physical condition than Stevens, Brady, Coleman etc.

For that position, you've got

a) Manning - looked good across a game and a half against Greece and Gibraltar
b) McClean - has done pretty well, certainly surpassed expectations, generally one of the better performances on the pitch
c) Stevens - cooked at 33
d) Brady - good footballer but totally crocked
e) O'Dowda - can't defender and very injury prone
f) Scales - at international level and high club level, he's a centre half. Struggled against Greece playing LB and looked much better in the centre. Also struggled for Celtic at LWB

g) Bagan - hasn't really kicked on but could be good enough in a season or two
h) Roughan - he's still very raw, still makes mistakes - he'd be ripped apart by good international players. Good tackler, good left foot, good in the air - but he's probably 2 years from being ready - and right now the technical deficiencies in his game would really hurt him attacking as well
i) Adaramola - very talented but career has stalled. Question marks over attitude but maybe unfounded.
j) Furlong - also could be good enough but the first step is to start playing football and maybe become first choice for the 21s

He wouldnt & doesnt play in the championship because he's sh!t. Effort and drive might be enough for Ireland and Irish fans/pundits because most still think its 1994, most championship clubs in England thought live in the real/modern world and view it from a perspective of reality which is simply being driven isnt enough anymore, you actually need to be good at football which McClean isnt.

Crucially though he's a worse football than those you've mentioned.

[SkStu]

Look, McClean has been a source of huge frustration for me over the years in terms of his technical ability - occasionally rash and reckless, occasionally a bit headless chicken, the occasional blooper of a cross - but in the same vein, he has also delivered some fantastic moments (Austria, Wales, his performance and then cross for McGoldrick against the Swiss to salvage a draw). As P-Stu points out, we qualified for the Euros because of his magic moments - 6 points right there in that campaign. Add to that his commitment, his passion and unrelenting Irishness and you have a player where you can and should forgive the imperfections, respect the total package and give him the send off he deserves. You're coming across awful petty.

[CSAD]

Look, McClean has been a source of huge frustration for me over the years in terms of his technical ability - occasionally rash and reckless, occasionally a bit headless chicken, the occasional blooper of a cross - but in the same vein, he has also delivered some fantastic moments (Austria, Wales, his performance and then cross for McGoldrick against the Swiss to salvage a draw). As P-Stu points out, we qualified for the Euros because of his magic moments - 6 points right there in that campaign. Add to that his commitment, his passion and unrelenting Irishness and you have a player where you can and should forgive the imperfections, respect the total package and give him the send off he deserves. You're coming across awful petty.

So basically he's been frustrating for being a bad footballer. So we should honour him because he scored 3 crucial goals?

These are all very desperate reasons for giving someone a send off. I would be hoping after such a horrendous campaign we'd be serious about improving things starting from the NZL game rather than giving someone a token cap because of his "unrelenting Irishness" when he's player 2 division down from every other player in the squad.

He lost the right for the send off he deserves when he dropped down to L2. After such a horrendous campaign I would be embarrassed with such a thought tbh.

[SkStu]

No - you missed the point again but fair enough, will leave it there. Enjoy the pettiness.

[tetsujin1979]

Last warning CSAD, move on

[CSAD]

No - you missed the point again but fair enough, will leave it there. Enjoy the pettiness.

Nope I got the point loud and clear. You say he should get a send off because

1.) He's a terrible footballer who has overachieved
2.) Had some fantastic moments, which loads of players have had yet havent had the opportunity of a great send off some of which who were better players.
3.) Having Unrelented Irishness

There are not enough reasons to get a send off. He should count himself lucky he was ousted years ago.


Last warning CSAD, move on

Tell SkuSku that also, if he's going to continue replying to me I'm going to continue to respond. As a mod you are meant to be neutral, not biased to one side (which you clearly are based on this thread).

[seanfhear]

Does CSAD deserve a big send off for this effort ? !

[elatedscum]

Crucially though he's a worse football than those you've mentioned.

Simple question: who do you think did better against France? Stevens or McClean?

[CSAD]

Simple question: who do you think did better against France? Stevens or McClean?

McClean, but its a low bar.

Do you think one game is going to change anything especially when both were mediocre at best? You arent helping you're case here my man.

[WexCar.]

McClean, but its a low bar.

Do you think one game is going to change anything especially when both were mediocre at best? You arent helping you're case here my man.

If what happens in one game doesn't change anything, especially when the games are of no consequence, then you agree it doesn't make a difference that he has been called up one last time.

[CSAD]

If what happens in one game doesn't change anything, especially when the games are of no consequence, then you agree it doesn't make a difference that he has been called up one last time.

You see that only works if he offers a potential benefit to Ireland. The question is what benefit to Ireland does a 35 year old who’s playing at a much lower standard to everyone else in the squad have? I’m struggling to see it.

[tetsujin1979]

It's a bit strange that there hasn't been any draws in 18 games in the group so far
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2024_qualifying_Group_B#Standings

[pineapple stu]

Every team is a clear step above the one immediately below it.

Not encouraging for us, especially as we were seeded above Greece of course

[Fixer82]

So basically he's been frustrating for being a bad footballer. So we should honour him because he scored 3 crucial goals?

These are all very desperate reasons for giving someone a send off. I would be hoping after such a horrendous campaign we'd be serious about improving things starting from the NZL game rather than giving someone a token cap because of his "unrelenting Irishness" when he's player 2 division down from every other player in the squad.

He lost the right for the send off he deserves when he dropped down to L2. After such a horrendous campaign I would be embarrassed with such a thought tbh.

Absolute rubbish. McClean owes us nothing and has given us everything he has. He deserves a fantastic send-off. If all players were as committed, I dare say we'd be in a better position than we are.

He's well within his rights at the age he's at to take a move that suits him and his family

[Jd2793]

found randolphs comments very odd at the weekend. do people think anthony barry has a patent on the 3-5-2 formation or something? that hes the only lad on the planet who can coach it? kenny would still be picking the players. the formation doesnt work because we have pick two lads at wing back who are not athetic. barry wouldnt have changed that.

[Jd2793]

Absolute rubbish. McClean owes us nothing and has given us everything he has. He deserves a fantastic send-off. If all players were as committed, I dare say we'd be in a better position than we are.

He's well within his rights at the age he's at to take a move that suits him and his family


absolutely spot on. would be a total disgrace if a player wasnt given a send off after breaking 100 caps.

[brine3]

If I was manager then McClean wouldn't have gotten 100 caps, purely on footballing terms. But that being said, he is a very decent fella, I admire his commitment and professionalism and he deserves his send-off. It's similar to how I felt about Kevin Kilbane, really.

[CSAD]

Absolute rubbish. McClean owes us nothing and has given us everything he has. He deserves a fantastic send-off. If all players were as committed, I dare say we'd be in a better position than we are.

He's well within his rights at the age he's at to take a move that suits him and his family


He did give everything, the issue is that just isnt enough. You are sadly letting emotions cloud you're judgment.

He is within his right's take the move he did. The issue is with that the consequences should be that he is no longer considered for selection for Ireland, any manager that was serious would cast him to the side when he moved to Wrexham.

[tetsujin1979]

Alright CSAD, you've made your point, repeatedly.
Move on.

[CSAD]

Alright CSAD, you've made your point, repeatedly.
Move on.

I don't think I have because I keep getting replies, if people want to ask me question's I'm happy to answer them.

[tetsujin1979]

Ignore them. Last, last warning.

[elatedscum]

McClean, but its a low bar.

Do you think one game is going to change anything especially when both were mediocre at best? You arent helping you're case here my man.

Few bits.

1) McClean is still 34, no matter how many times you say he's 35 (after being corrected).
2) Here's a clip of McClean playing against a L1 team a few weeks ago. I watched it to see Luke McNicholas who makes a great save at the start of the video. McClean came on after 60 mins. He can be seen in the last 4 clips (starting at 0.50). Still honestly think he's at League 2 level? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M99GDfmBhw
3) You obviously think Sean Roughan deserves his place in the squad. What I can tell you from watching a lot of him and a lot of the 21s is that Roughan would be out of his depth at senior level. Curtis might even do a better job stepping right into that team. Lawal, McNulty, Hodge, Armstrong - those are the lads who are closest to being ready and none of them are knocking on the door. All of Keeley, Curtis, Roughan, O'Riordan, Healy, Adeeko, Gilsenan, O'Neill, Okoflex - they're years from making the step... Putting them there now, in Roughan's case, costing us goals, it'd be really detrimental to his development. He'd get two caps, he'd look a disaster, way off the level and he'd be back with the 21s with his confidence crushed...

[CSAD]

Few bits.

1) McClean is still 34, no matter how many times you say he's 35 (after being corrected).
2) Here's a clip of McClean playing against a L1 team a few weeks ago. I watched it to see Luke McNicholas who makes a great save at the start of the video. McClean came on after 60 mins. He can be seen in the last 4 clips (starting at 0.50). Still honestly think he's at League 2 level? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M99GDfmBhw
3) You obviously think Sean Roughan deserves his place in the squad. What I can tell you from watching a lot of him and a lot of the 21s is that Roughan would be out of his depth at senior level. Curtis might even do a better job stepping right into that team. Lawal, McNulty, Hodge, Armstrong - those are the lads who are closest to being ready and none of them are knocking on the door. All of Keeley, Curtis, Roughan, O'Riordan, Healy, Adeeko, Gilsenan, O'Neill, Okoflex - they're years from making the step... Putting them there now, in Roughan's case, costing us goals, it'd be really detrimental to his development. He'd get two caps, he'd look a disaster, way off the level and he'd be back with the 21s with his confidence crushed...

You’re wrong but unfortunately for you I can’t tell you why as I’ll be banned!

[Razors left peg]

My 2 cents on this, for whats its worth is, that McClean has been a great servant to us, but he was also blessed to have gotten 100 caps. Had this conversation with another poster outside of here last week about him, he was right in saying to me that in other eras McClean may not have gotten 5 Caps. Steven Finnan only has 53 caps, and I dont think theres any comparison between the 2 of them.

I dont particularly understand the need for a celebration of his career against NZ. He got his 100th cap only a few games ago and there was a lot of celebration around that, it would have been different if he hadnt played for us in a couple of years. Right now for me its still a little bit too raw that he was at fault for the Dutch goal in Dublin for me to celebrate him again. He got his 100th cap, took a payday to move to L2 and that should have been the end... but when its the most pointless game in living memory I suppose they have to create some sort of narrative around it for marketing purposes.

In regards to who his best replacement is, I dont know. We have a big problem in that position and we have to hope that someone emerges between now and next September when our next competitive game is.

[texidub]

jayzus... having to wait til next Sept for a competitive game.

McClean deserves a moment in a meaningless game against meaningless opposition at the end of a long and somewhat meaningful international career.

Are testimonial games gone out the window for Irish international players? Most footballers make so much money now it seems silly, but even as a charity thing?

[brine3]

My 2 cents on this, for whats its worth is, that McClean has been a great servant to us, but he was also blessed to have gotten 100 caps. Had this conversation with another poster outside of here last week about him, he was right in saying to me that in other eras McClean may not have gotten 5 Caps. Steven Finnan only has 53 caps, and I dont think theres any comparison between the 2 of them.

Dennis Irwin only 56 caps as well...

In other words, Kevin Kilbane has more caps than Finnan and Irwin combined.

[JR89]

Also speaking of send offs it's interesting to see what Coleman will do between now and next September. If he'll announce his retirement and get a send off next March or June. He's older than McClean and McClean is probably our fitness player going.

[LurcherLover]

If you're good enough to be in the squad and you're the best option for that particular role, you should be in the squad regardless of who you played a few games for. Who would/was he keeping out of the squad that would feel aggrieved? Simple as that really.

[tetsujin1979]

Combined stats from the qualifying campaign
1727686324549804351

[Stuttgart88]

Tets, please move this to a more approriate thread if there is one. We've discussed play off chances before, but I can't remember where.

The play off semi-finals have been announced

Path A: Wales/Finland vs Poland/Estonia.
Path B: Bosnia-Herzegovina/Ukraine vs Israel/?Iceland.
Path C: Georgia/Luxembourg vs Greece/Kazakhstan.

We needed no more than 2 teams lower NL ranked than us to qualify directly. 4 did: Albania, Romania, Turkey and Slovakia.

I think Norway was next in line for a play off spot, then us.

I see Estonia got a Path A play off spot. They got a meagre 1 point in proper qualifying!

[elatedscum]

Tets, please move this to a more approriate thread if there is one. We've discussed play off chances before, but I can't remember where.

The play off semi-finals have been announced

Path A: Wales/Finland vs Poland/Estonia.
Path B: Bosnia-Herzegovina/Ukraine vs Israel/?Iceland.
Path C: Georgia/Luxembourg vs Greece/Kazakhstan.

We needed no more than 2 teams lower NL ranked than us to qualify directly. 4 did: Albania, Romania, Turkey and Slovakia.

I think Norway was next in line for a play off spot, then us.

I see Estonia got a Path A play off spot. They got a meagre 1 point in proper qualifying!

On that, if we'd done worse in Kenny's first NL campaign, say losing to Bulgaria. We'd have ended up in a nation's league C group with Gibraltar, Georgia and Macedonia. Win that and we're in a playoff with Luxembourg followed by Greece/Kazakhstan in March. It's the weird anomaly of the Nation's League, if you put us in any of League A, C or D - we're almost guaranteed to make the playoffs - whereas we're less than 50/50 to get a slot in League B

Also we would have inevitably ended up in an easier qualification group than we got...