UEFA Euro 2024 Qualifying Group B

[geysir]

Fair dues.

Though scoring 3 times in 6 games is a bit poor, too, esp since two were peno's.
It was 50 years ago!! I think even Owls Fan would struggle to remember.

but at least empowered with important facts from that bygone era, we have moved on from the ignominy of a "shocking goal difference" to just being "a bit poor".

[pineapple stu]

https://twitter.com/EURO2024/status/1713665558942507469?t=9SFlwiQ2YoM93WX_--syPg&s=19

Does this mean we're officially out?
Not sure which result changed things this evening, but we're now officially looking for alternative summer holiday plans next summer. Even if we do manage to lose on Saturday

[Razors left peg]

Even if we do manage to lose on Saturday

It'll be difficult but Im sure we'll manage that :)

[elatedscum]

Not sure which result changed things this evening, but we're now officially looking for alternative summer holiday plans next summer. Even if we do manage to lose on Saturday

Slovakia beating Iceland was the nail in the coffin

[CSAD]

F**k me those Israel & Slovakia groups really are Sh!t groups, Jesus Christ!

[zero]

have a ticket (anf flights) booked for tomorrow's game but considering not going. i just feel the players are waiting for SK to be out the door.

[CSAD]

have a ticket (anf flights) booked for tomorrow's game but considering not going. i just feel the players are waiting for SK to be out the door.

McClean being called up alone should be reason not to go. Not good enough to make even the u21 squad yet here is getting into the senior squad. One of the reasons why I cant wait for this regime to end.

[pineapple stu]

He was always getting called up for this window in fairness, with the NZ game being his send-off.

[CSAD]

He was always getting called up for this window in fairness, with the NZ game being his send-off.

He shouldn't get a send off, that should have been put to bed when he decided to play in League 2.

[seanfhear]

He shouldn't get a send off, that should have been put to bed when he decided to play in League 2.Sure, what else are we doing at the moment ? We might as well have a send off.

[CSAD]

Sure, what else are we doing at the moment ? We might as well have a send off.

Idk, maybe looking at players who have potential to improve the Irish side in future like Moran etc. McClean has shown like Hourihane and J.Collins that he's done at this level and has no ambition in his club career (bare in mind even these 2 mentioned are more worthy of a call up than McClean). He's a L2 player so should be treated like one and put to pastures months ago.

[pineapple stu]

He shouldn't get a send off, that should have been put to bed when he decided to play in League 2.
In a friendly against New Zealand? Why not?

[seanfhear]

Idk, maybe looking at players who have potential to improve the Irish side in future like Moran etc. McClean has shown like Hourihane and J.Collins that he's done at this level and has no ambition in his club career (bare in mind even these 2 mentioned are more worthy of a call up than McClean). He's a L2 player so should be treated like one and put to pastures months ago.
I think at this stage it's more important that we have a blow-out on the beer ~ A sort of a reset ~ This was basically what worked for Jack Charlton (wink) !

[seanfhear]

In a friendly against New Zealand? Why not?
James always showed up and did his best. If all the other Irish players did the same over the last 15 years or so, we would probably be in better shape.

[CSAD]

In a friendly against New Zealand? Why not?

"Why not?" Because its a waste of a cap, the game would be far more beneficial to players like Roughan/McNulty/Armstrong etc who are far more deserving on form than McClean who's just washed up already.

Kenny continuing to reward mediocrity is one of the reasons we are where we are.

[CSAD]

James always showed up and did his best. If all the other Irish players did the same over the last 15 years or so, we would probably be in better shape.

Showing up and giving you're best is a given at this level, if that's the best praise you can give him then that is another good reason why he shouldn't be in the squad. His form over the last year for club and country has not been good enough to warrant a "send off". Even French TV mocked us for picking him, that says it all really.

[seanfhear]

"Why not?" Because its a waste of a cap, the game would be far more beneficial to players like Roughan/McNulty/Armstrong etc who are far more deserving on form than McClean who's just washed up already.

Kenny continuing to reward mediocrity is one of the reasons we are where we are.
How many subs can you have for a meaningless friendly ? !

[seanfhear]

Showing up and giving you're best is a given at this level, if that's the best praise you can give him then that is another good reason why he shouldn't be in the squad. His form over the last year for club and country has not been good enough to warrant a "send off". Even French TV mocked us for picking him, that says it all really.
Well, if the French mock us ~ You have a point !

[CSAD]

How many subs can you have for a meaningless friendly ? !

I dont know, any wasted on bringing on or off McClean is one too many.

[pineapple stu]

How many subs can you have for a meaningless friendly ? !
I think it's still 6 or so. Eriksson took the **** while manager of England and FIFA took objection to that, so they changed the rules.

Regardless, I don't get the hate for McClean. And I've been calling for better succession planning at wingback longer than most. He's not taking Armstrong's place in the squad (and it's too soon for him anyway, based on club/under 21 form). MacNulty is a centre-back afaik; we've plenty of those so he has to get in ahead of them first. Roughan is doing ok for himself but he's playing for a mid-table third tier side; he's better with the 21s for now.

[seanfhear]

I think it's still 6 or so. Eriksson took the **** while manager of England and FIFA took objection to that, so they changed the rules.

Regardless, I don't get the hate for McClean. And I've been calling for better succession planning at wingback longer than most. He's not taking Armstrong's place in the squad (and it's too soon for him anyway, based on club/under 21 form). MacNulty is a centre-back afaik; we've plenty of those so he has to get in ahead of them first. Roughan is doing ok for himself but he's playing for a mid-table third tier side; he's better with the 21s for now.
Might as well have a Hooley for James McClean ~ Sure there is nothing else happening at senior level for ages now.

[CSAD]

I think it's still 6 or so. Eriksson took the **** while manager of England and FIFA took objection to that, so they changed the rules.

Regardless, I don't get the hate for McClean. And I've been calling for better succession planning at wingback longer than most. He's not taking Armstrong's place in the squad (and it's too soon for him anyway, based on club/under 21 form). MacNulty is a centre-back afaik; we've plenty of those so he has to get in ahead of them first. Roughan is doing ok for himself but he's playing for a mid-table third tier side; he's better with the 21s for now.


I love how you are saying Armstrong isnt ready when he's a regular in the championship and Roughan is better staying with the u21s because he's only playing for a mid table third tier side but then dont condemn the call up of McClean when he's 35 and playing for a FOURTH tier side...

There is literally 0 justification for calling up McClean.

And btw McNulty has been playing in the Eredivisie as a LB.

[CSAD]

Might as well have a Hooley for James McClean ~ Sure there is nothing else happening at senior level for ages now.

You mean waste an opportunity to blood young players in order to just give a 35 year old washed up player who should have been ousted years ago another cap? This right here is why were are where we are.

[tetsujin1979]

I love how you are saying Armstrong isnt ready when he's a regular in the championship and Roughan is better staying with the u21s because he's only playing for a mid table third tier side but then dont condemn the call up of McClean when he's 35 and playing for a FOURTH tier side...

There is literally 0 justification for calling up McClean.

And btw McNulty has been playing in the Eredivisie as a LB.
Sinclair has played a full game once this season, hasn't started a game in a month, and he's played 45 minutes of football since then.
He's fine with the U21s


You mean waste an opportunity to blood young players in order to just give a 35 year old washed up player who should have been ousted years ago another cap? This right here is why were are where we are.
Or, it's an opportunity to give the U21s their best chance of continuing their 100% start to their group, with two of their most difficult fixtures in the group. It's one of the rare occasions when it's better to leave players with the U21s. If anything, the Gibraltar game was the time to give players their senior debut.

[pineapple stu]

I love how you are saying Armstrong isnt ready when he's a regular in the championship and Roughan is better staying with the u21s because he's only playing for a mid table third tier side but then dont condemn the call up of McClean when he's 35 and playing for a FOURTH tier side...
I'm not condemning the call-up of McClean for one last send-off. Big difference.

Armstrong has something like one goal in 35 games for QPR, and was very wasteful in the U21 game against San Marino. Let him develop more of a goal threat and he's an option then. Regardless, I don't know why you think McClean is keeping a forward out of the squad.

Roughan hasn't gone beyond mid-table third tier in terms of ability yet; it's too soon to be bringing him to the senior squad. If MacNulty is playing on the left, then fair enough, he's an option - but I still wouldn't begrudge McClean one last cap in a meaningless friendly.

[CSAD]

Sinclair has played a full game once this season, hasn't started a game in a month, and he's played 45 minutes of football since then.
He's fine with the U21s


Or, it's an opportunity to give the U21s their best chance of continuing their 100% start to their group, with two of their most difficult fixtures in the group. It's one of the rare occasions when it's better to leave players with the U21s. If anything, the Gibraltar game was the time to give players their senior debut.

Even with all that being the case Armstrong is still a better option than a 35 year old washed up L2 player. Also bare in mind even players like O'Riordan and Curtis from the u21s would also be more worth while call ups as they each have potential upside unlike McClean.

We screwed giving our u21s their best chance of qualifying when we pulled out the captain so I doubt they care too much.

[CSAD]

I'm not condemning the call-up of McClean for one last send-off. Big difference.

Armstrong has something like one goal in 35 games for QPR, and was very wasteful in the U21 game against San Marino. Let him develop more of a goal threat and he's an option then. Regardless, I don't know why you think McClean is keeping a forward out of the squad.

Roughan hasn't gone beyond mid-table third tier in terms of ability yet; it's too soon to be bringing him to the senior squad. If MacNulty is playing on the left, then fair enough, he's an option - but I still wouldn't begrudge McClean one last cap in a meaningless friendly.

His one last stand off should have come over a year ago, now he's outstayed his welcome and that should have been confirmed when he decided to sign for Wrexham. What you dont seem to get is all the options I mentioned despite some of their flaws are still preferable to McClean.

If McClean wanted his stand off cap he needs to have something to offer us and I'm sorry to tell him but offering effort doesn't quite cut it when the rest of what he offers us is severely lacking, he should have thought about that before he signed for Wrexham. Like I said in a previous comment along with the options mentioned Connor O'Riordan and Sam Curtis would be better call ups than McClean as at least they have potential upside and have at least *some* football IQ...

[tetsujin1979]

Even with all that being the case Armstrong is still a better option than a 35 year old washed up L2 player. Also bare in mind even players like O'Riordan and Curtis from the u21s would also be more worth while call ups as they each have potential upside unlike McClean.

We screwed giving our u21s their best chance of qualifying when we pulled out the captain so I doubt they care too much.
McClean isn't taking a place from Armstrong - one of Robinson, Parrott, Idah, Ogbene, Ferguson, and possibly Johnson is.

[CSAD]

McClean isn't taking a place from Armstrong - one of Robinson, Parrott, Idah, Ogbene, Ferguson, and possibly Johnson is.

Conveniently leaving out the fact I also mentioned Roughan & Garcia McNulty, both of which play in his position for their club and are playing at a higher level and at least have potential upside. And like I said recently Curtis and Riordan are arguably better options for a call up when you consider their upside. If these were important games maybe I could understand McClean's call up because of his experience but in meaningless games like the ones we are playing he's pointless.

[WexCar.]

?

While he is not good enough anymore to warrant a squad place, picking him for a meaningless game is a small price to pay to show recognition for his loyalty and service to the Ireland team. After all, he has over 100 caps for his country, and it does send a message to the other players that their efforts are appreciated. It is far too easy to disregard this element of the game, they are people too and I won't be too quick to dehumanise the process.

At the end of the day not getting minutes in one meaningless friendly, that will also be the last game for the manager, will not negatively impact the development of any of these younger players who in other circumstances would maybe be in the squad. Would it be good to have them in the squad ahead of him? Yes, does it actually make that big a difference? No, not really.

[CSAD]

?

While he is not good enough anymore to warrant a squad place, picking him for a meaningless game is a small price to pay to show recognition for his loyalty and service to the Ireland team. After all, he has over 100 caps for his country, and it does send a message to the other players that their efforts are appreciated. It is far too easy to disregard this element of the game, they are people too and I won't be too quick to dehumanise the process.

At the end of the day not getting minutes in one meaningless friendly, that will also be the last game for the manager, will not negatively impact the development of any of these younger players who in other circumstances would maybe be in the squad. Would it be good to have them in the squad ahead of him? Yes, does it actually make that big a difference? No, not really.

We showed him recognition by picking him for over a year when he wasn't good enough. If he wants a place in the squad he needs to bring something to the table that benefits Ireland, there is literally nothing he brings. This devaluing of caps is one reason why we are where we are as a nation. He's a L2 player so should be nowhere near the squad.

All McClean has done is stink the place out for the last year, to reward him with yet another game or 2 to stink the place out show's just how much chaos we are in. If we are serious about improving as a nation then players like McClean need to be shown the door.

[SkStu]

Regardless, I don't know why you think McClean is keeping a forward out of the squad.

Thank you. I thought i was losing it reading through the exchange.

[WexCar.]

Us improving as a footballing nation does not hinge on picking McCLean or whatever fringe players get picked for the senior squad. The work that needs to be done to improve us as a footballing nation needs to be done far away from the senior squad.
In the overall picture of Irish football, picking McClean this week doesn't make any difference to us improving as a nation.
I think you're placing far too much significance on this, it's really not that big of a deal.

[seanfhear]

?

While he is not good enough anymore to warrant a squad place, picking him for a meaningless game is a small price to pay to show recognition for his loyalty and service to the Ireland team. After all, he has over 100 caps for his country, and it does send a message to the other players that their efforts are appreciated. It is far too easy to disregard this element of the game, they are people too and I won't be too quick to dehumanise the process.

At the end of the day not getting minutes in one meaningless friendly, that will also be the last game for the manager, will not negatively impact the development of any of these younger players who in other circumstances would maybe be in the squad. Would it be good to have them in the squad ahead of him? Yes, does it actually make that big a difference? No, not really.
The Republic of Ireland is in bad need of a Hooley.

[WexCar.]

The Republic of Ireland is in bad need of a Hooley.
Most definitely

[CSAD]

Us improving as a footballing nation does not hinge on picking McCLean or whatever fringe players get picked for the senior squad. The work that needs to be done to improve us as a footballing nation needs to be done far away from the senior squad.
In the overall picture of Irish football, picking McClean this week doesn't make any difference to us improving as a nation.
I think you're placing far too much significance on this, it's really not that big of a deal.

It's just latest example of why we are such a laughing stock in football. Evan the French commentators a few months ago were laughing at the idea of us picking a L2 player.

McClean has precisely nothing to add to Ireland yet we pick him anyway...

[seanfhear]

It's just latest example of why we are such a laughing stock in football. Evan the French commentators a few months ago were laughing at the idea of us picking a L2 player.

McClean has precisely nothing to add to Ireland yet we pick him anyway...
James McClean is a Die-Hard.

[CSAD]

James McClean is a Die-Hard.

Being a die hard doesnt offer Ireland anything unfortunately.

[pineapple stu]

Thank you. I thought i was losing it reading through the exchange.
Yep. I mean - and here's a mad suggestion - but Kenny could call up both McClean and Armstrong.

But I don't think he will, or should. Armstrong isn't good enough yet.

Anyways, it seems at this stage it's everyone against one, so I'm happy to move on!

[CSAD]

Yep. I mean - and here's a mad suggestion - but Kenny could call up both McClean and Armstrong.

But I don't think he will, or should. Armstrong isn't good enough yet.

Anyways, it seems at this stage it's everyone against one, so I'm happy to move on!


If Armstrong, who's played 15 games and over 800 minutes of championship football, isn't good enough then how the hell is McClean?

How can we started preparing for the NL next year and WCQ in 2025 when we are already wasting 1 of our matches on giving another cap to a player who should have been cut years ago really.

The only thing McClean can add to his record is being the worst player to play for Ireland in their worst campaign for god know's how long, an impressive record to have.

[seanfhear]

Sure ~ We'll have a new messiah soon ( hopefully )

[pineapple stu]

The only thing McClean can add to his record is being the worst player to play for Ireland in their worst campaign for god know's how long, an impressive record to have.
Well that's clearly nonsense anyway. McClean's been ok this campaign. Certainly better than, say, anyone in the centre of the park. Here's a site (https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/331/Show/Ireland-Ireland) which gives match ratings for all our games (and lots of other games too) and has McClean third on the list, albeit his man-of-the-match 9.5 rating against Gibraltar skews it a bit (as it does for McGrath, who played two of his three games against Gibraltar)

Still, quite clear he's not the remotely worst player to have played for us this campaign. Of those who have played more than 90 minutes, the list notes Collins, Molumby and Idah as our three weakest performers, and I think that's quite reasonable, all things considered.

[CSAD]

Well that's clearly nonsense anyway. McClean's been ok this campaign. Certainly better than, say, anyone in the centre of the park. Here's a site (https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/331/Show/Ireland-Ireland) which gives match ratings for all our games (and lots of other games too) and has McClean third on the list, albeit his man-of-the-match 9.5 rating against Gibraltar skews it a bit (as it does for McGrath, who played two of his three games against Gibraltar)

Still, quite clear he's not the remotely worst player to have played for us this campaign. Of those who have played more than 90 minutes, the list notes Collins, Molumby and Idah as our three weakest performers, and I think that's quite reasonable, all things considered.

If you say so. He is the player playing at the lowest level of any player we capped during this campaign so it's a fair assumption.

Answer me this, how does giving a 35 year old who plays in L2 such as McClean benefit Ireland in anyway going forward?

[elatedscum]

This is all so ridiculous.

If you’re playing wing backs, then he should arguably be your first choice. Enda Stevens was a disaster against the French and is effectively done. Robbie Brady’s body is banjaxed. Ryan Manning finally put in a decent performance for Ireland in the second half against Greece and is probably the best option - but he was poor against the Netherlands and very poor against Bulgaria a few years back in his only competitive start before the Gibraltar game last month. Meanwhile Bagan, Roughan, Adaramola, Furlong - none of them are close to being ready.

You can call him a league 2 player and he technically is but he was a championship player a few months ago and it’s not like his real level has dropped that significantly. Also the idea that total commitment is a given at this level is just bull****. He’s the most committed player I’ve ever seen playing for Ireland. He’s taken painkilling injections against his club’s advice, he’s played with broken bones and chronic issues - he’s gone on the tours to America when every other senior player was pulling out. If every player was as dedicated and committed as he was, we’d do so much better - and he is an example for everyone to look up to.

[pineapple stu]

If you say so. He is the player playing at the lowest level of any player we capped during this campaign so it's a fair assumption.
Your assumption takes in nothing at all of what's actually happened on the pitch though. Which is kinda important.


Answer me this, how does giving a 35 year old who plays in L2 such as McClean benefit Ireland in anyway going forward?
It doesn't. And equally it doesn't harm us going forward by giving one last send-off to an exceptional servant down the years.

[CSAD]

This is all so ridiculous.

If you’re playing wing backs, then he should arguably be your first choice. Enda Stevens was a disaster against the French and is effectively done. Robbie Brady’s body is banjaxed. Ryan Manning finally put in a decent performance for Ireland in the second half against Greece and is probably the best option - but he was poor against the Netherlands and very poor against Bulgaria a few years back in his only competitive start before the Gibraltar game last month. Meanwhile Bagan, Roughan, Adaramola, Furlong - none of them are close to being ready.

You can call him a league 2 player and he technically is but he was a championship player a few months ago and it’s not like his real level has dropped that significantly. Also the idea that total commitment is a given at this level is just bull****. He’s the most committed player I’ve ever seen playing for Ireland. He’s taken painkilling injections against his club’s advice, he’s played with broken bones and chronic issues - he’s gone on the tours to America when every other senior player was pulling out. If every player was as dedicated and committed as he was, we’d do so much better - and he is an example for everyone to look up to.

Roughan is playing at a higher level than McClean and actually been playing as a wingback…if he’s not ready what does that make McClean?

I’m sorry a L2 35 year old is not our best LB, you and McClean should get a room at this rate tbh…

It is a given though, the minimum I would expect from a player is being committed to the cause, and I’m sorry but for all his commitment the rest of his game is severely lacking and once he decided to play L2 he should have been cut from the squad.

The fact we are looking to honour players when we’ve just come through a campaign losing 6 from 6 games just shows how much of a laughing stock are. If we are serious about improving we need to stock this emotional guff of honouring players just because they showed up and actually focusing on the future.

Every player in the squad is a Premiership,Championship,Eredivisie, Serie A level player and then you have McClean who’s a 35 year old playing in L2, he has absolutely no business being in this squad.

[CSAD]

Your assumption takes in nothing at all of what's actually happened on the pitch though. Which is kinda important.


It doesn't. And equally it doesn't harm us going forward by giving one last send-off to an exceptional servant down the years.

And there’s the point, he brings nothing to the table as a player so why does he deserve a send off? Has he been an exceptional servant, what does he do other than run around like a headless chicken and deliver SH!t crosses into the box? Just because he cares more than others he should get a send off? Just award him with a “you tried” trophy pre kick off and let him fly back to L2.

[pineapple stu]

And there’s the point, he brings nothing to the table as a player so why does he deserve a send off?
He doesn't bring nothing to the table though, however many times you repeat it. He's actually been one of our better performers this campaign. He's had better campaigns sure - top scorer in 2018 for example, with four huge away goals. Simply wouldn't have made the World Cup playoffs without them. And I'm sure it's a boost to have had such a driven character in the dressing room the past 11 years. If we had more players like him, we'd be in a better place, and that deserves acknowledgement.

Your bias here is bizarre, from wanting a forward with one senior goal to his name included instead, to saying he's been our worst player this campaign simply because of the level he's now playing at (and ignoring his actual performances), to asking irrelevant questions and then ignoring the answers (How does it benefit us having him in the squad going forward)

[seanfhear]

Much a do about nothing ~ Once more unto the breach, Dear James !

[CSAD]

He doesn't bring nothing to the table though, however many times you repeat it. He's actually been one of our better performers this campaign. He's had better campaigns sure - top scorer in 2018 for example, with four huge away goals. Simply wouldn't have made the World Cup playoffs without them. And I'm sure it's a boost to have had such a driven character in the dressing room the past 11 years. If we had more players like him, we'd be in a better place, and that deserves acknowledgement.

Your bias here is bizarre, from wanting a forward with one senior goal to his name included instead, to saying he's been our worst player this campaign simply because of the level he's now playing at (and ignoring his actual performances), to asking irrelevant questions and then ignoring the answers (How does it benefit us having him in the squad going forward)


What has he actually dont this campaign, Think back, what moments did he have?

Yes he was worthy of a send off in 2018, not now. It sure as hell wasnt a boost in the last 2 campaigns so not so sure abut that. Im sorry but being driven isnt enough.

The forward who's playing 2 divisions above McClean and is 15 years younger so has more growth you mean? I like how you've conveniently picked that one example and ignore that ive pointed out 4-5 others who are more deserving aswell, if not more.

Well look at it, all the other players are premiership or championship standard players and then you have McClean who's in L2, he's totally out of place being in this squad. Being driven isnt enough reason to be included.

I'm ignoring it because you havent answered the question, you've still yet to explain how including him improves Ireland going forward. After a campaign where we've lost (likely) 6 games from 6 I'd hope we would be focusing on improving for the next campaign right away rather than wasting our first game post ECQ's by wasting our first friendly acknowledging a mediocre L2 player just because he's "driven".