2022 Nations League - Group B1

[Kingdom]

Taylor
Scales
Ronan


All have a shot within 12 months

I'd narrow your list above to the those two, and would be on the fence for Kilkenny & Mandriou. Nothing agin any of them of course, well, almost.

[Jd2793]

Kilkenny in as a deputy to Cullen, once he keeps his place at Bournemouth I'd say.

[backstothewall]

What happens if Ukraine aren't able to fulfil their fixtures due to the situation with Russia?

[pineapple stu]

We played Georgia in Mainz before for similar reasons, so I guess a neutral venue?

[CraftyToePoke]

What happens if Ukraine aren't able to fulfil their fixtures due to the situation with Russia?

Or if they no longer exist, due to Russia. What happens then ?

[zero]

Or if they no longer exist, due to Russia. What happens then ?

I think if that happens we'll have bigger things to worry about...

[Charlie Darwin]

Or if they no longer exist, due to Russia. What happens then ?
Not that I think this will happen, but there actually is precedent. When Germany was unified, East Germany and West Germany just played out their campaigns as normal before the teams merged.

[Diggs246]

Not that I think this will happen, but there actually is precedent. When Germany was unified, East Germany and West Germany just played out their campaigns as normal before the teams merged.

I think this is different!
The precedent was when we played Georgia in mainz that time. After they attack poor little Russia!

[Charlie Darwin]

I meant the precedent if a country no longer exists, they still play games.

[Fixer82]

There’s no way Ukraine will not be in existence. Worst that will happen, geographically, is that part of it will belong to Russia (besides bloody and terrible war of course)

[pineapple stu]

Or if they no longer exist, due to Russia. What happens then ?
Well this scenario seems terrifyingly more likely than two months ago...

[Diggs246]

Well this scenario seems terrifyingly more likely than two months ago...

Russia should be expelled from the WC 2022
They have Poland in a Play off. the Poles should get a by

[Diggs246]

Or let the game go ahead so the whole planet can cheer on poland.

Then if russia win expell them!

[CraftyToePoke]

Well this scenario seems terrifyingly more likely than two months ago...

Although I said it, it was half what if & half in jest. A scenario on the outer sphere of the various possible outcomes if you will. I don't think anyone fully appreciated what a heady mix of fully insane & massively ****ed off ol Vladimir truly is. Particularly those who's one job it was to guage this.

[pineapple stu]

I think technically Russia are already banned from the World Cup anyway due to the doping scandal, though FIFA are allowed to overturn that. So that gives them a fairly easy way to expel them.

Of course the issue then is do you risk annoying ordinary Russians, who would then conversely support Putin more?

It's a very tricky one...

[Diggs246]

I think technically Russia are already banned from the World Cup anyway due to the doping scandal, though FIFA are allowed to overturn that. So that gives them a fairly easy way to expel them.

Of course the issue then is do you risk annoying ordinary Russians, who would then conversely support Putin more?

It's a very tricky one...

Its not tricky imo
They've invaded this is happening.
I'm sorry for the average Russian football fan, but its a dictatorship so their opinion good or bad doesn't matter to putin

It will annoy him that's for certain !

[pineapple stu]

I think you have to consider how Putin could use any actions for his own propaganda as well though. There's plenty a dictatorship been brought down by populist pressure before.

Personally, I'd have no problems with Russia being the new South Africa over this (although nothing similar happened when they invaded Georgia in 2008 - granted, this already looks a huge step above that, but there were similarities too, including Georgia's desire to join NATO), but dealing with Putin is inherently tricky. I'm not sure he's insane like Crafty suggests; he's more a psychopath, which is a lot more dangerous I think.

But I think it is convenient that there seems to be a nice way to ban them as things stand.

[pineapple stu]

UEFA have - not surprisingly - confirmed that all Ukraine's matches are to be played at a neutral venue until further notice.

Same goes for Russia.

Champions League final moved from St Petersburg (Putin's home city) to Paris.

[paul_oshea]

Not sure where to put this. But the Fai have said 15000 season tickets have sold already this year. That's interesting because when I first got a "number " with them about 17 or so years ago it was up late 14000s, so they must never have got higher before now.

[geysir]

There’s no way Ukraine will not be in existence. Worst that will happen, geographically, is that part of it will belong to Russia (besides bloody and terrible war of course)

Back in the USSR?

[Fixer82]

You don’t know how lucky you are boy!

[Eminence Grise]

Back in the USSR?


You don’t know how lucky you are boy!

Given all that's happening, this is disappointingly glib.

[geysir]

Given all that's happening, this is disappointingly glib.
Ah shucks EG, that sounds so corny, faux outrage, don't read so much into it.

[Fixer82]

Given all that's happening, this is disappointingly glib.

Don't mind me, half of what I say is meaningless!

[Diggs246]

I see FIFA have disgraced themselves again, by saying they will move the Russian game to neutral venue! cheers you corrupt scum bags!

We should salute Poland, Sweden and the Czech republic for not tolerating this.

[Eminence Grise]

Ah shucks EG, that sounds so corny, faux outrage, don't read so much into it.

It's not neither faux, nor outrage, just disappointment. There's a time and place for levity, maybe not just now.


Don't mind me, half of what I say is meaningless!

I appreciate you're trying to be helpful... but... um... which half? Help a fella out, like.:cool:

In fairness, you both have a better moral compass than FIFA.:mad:

[Diggs246]

https://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/ireland-will-not-play-against-russia-at-any-level-until-further-notice-1266054.html

Fair play.. its a small thing but they all count

[samhaydenjr]

I see FIFA have disgraced themselves again, by saying they will move the Russian game to neutral venue! cheers you corrupt scum bags!

We should salute Poland, Sweden and the Czech republic for not tolerating this.

You can always count on FIFA to do the right thing... once they've exhausted all other possibilities: https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/60560567

[pineapple stu]

Ukraine have asked for their World Cup tie with Scotland to be postponed.

We're due to play them twice in June. It's not impossible now that those games don't go ahead as scheduled.

[backstothewall]

Ukraine have asked for their World Cup tie with Scotland to be postponed.

We're due to play them twice in June. It's not impossible now that those games don't go ahead as scheduled.

If things remain much as they are now in western Ukraine, I'd encourage the FAI and the players to go ahead with both games. Things still seem quiet enough in Lviv, and it would be a chance to give Ukrainians a boost.

They could stay in Poland and go in and out for the country for the game.

[tetsujin1979]

If things stay the way they are, there's no way it'll go ahead in Ukraine
it's not just the players and management, it's fans travelling, UEFA officials, the team from whoever is broadcasting the game.

[pineapple stu]

Bear in mind part of the reason they're asking for a postponement is because they have a lot of players in the domestic league, which is now abandoned because Putin's a *****.

It's a bit unfair to ask them to play a game of football when (a) they mayn't have played club games or even trained for three months and (b) they're taking up arms to beat off an invasion by a foreign power.

Bigger picture thinking is needed here I think.

[jbyrne]

Bear in mind part of the reason they're asking for a postponement is because they have a lot of players in the domestic league, which is now abandoned because Putin's a *****.

It's a bit unfair to ask them to play a game of football when (a) they mayn't have played club games or even trained for three months and (b) they're taking up arms to beat off an invasion by a foreign power.

Bigger picture thinking is needed here I think.

yes, Ukraines matches should only proceed for the foreseeable future if they want it themselves. It would be impossible for them to play in the current circumstances

[backstothewall]

yes, Ukraines matches should only proceed for the foreseeable future if they want it themselves. It would be impossible for them to play in the current circumstances

I'd imagine that by June the Ukrainian FA and Ukrainian football fans will want nothing more.

It would be impossible to play in Kyiv, but there's a perfectly good stadium there in Lviv where things are largely peaceful.

Things are certainly more peaceful in Lviv today than they were in Belfast when we went there in November 1993. Of course that could change by June, but if the Ukrainian FA want to play the game, I'd say the FAI should start making preparations to base themselves over the border in Kraków and fulfil the fixture.

And if things change at short notice I imagine the Polish FA and Ukrainian FA would all be prepared to host the game at and Wisła Kraków's stadium.

If the Ukrainians want to postpone I'd obviously have no problem with that, but if they want to play we should be prepared to move heaven and earth to fulfil the fixture.

[pineapple stu]

The Ukrainian FA right now don't want that. They're the ones asking for a postponement, and the main reason given is that domestic football is off (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/mar/03/ukraine-request-postponement-of-world-cup-qualifying-play-off-with-scotland). Their players can't prepare for an international football game when they're holed up in bunkers firing AK-47s at Russian teenagers.

Putin has stated his aim is to take over the whole of Ukraine, and there's worries about him moving further west into Moldova and maybe even Poland/Latvia/Lithuania. You can't say Lviv is fine now and sure we can play there in three months' time. (I don't think he has the resources - with sanctions - to drag things out for three months to be honest, but that's a separate matter)

And seriously, I can think of plenty of things Ukrainians want more than a game of football right now, or things they'd rather see us move heaven and earth to achieve.

Seriously, perspective here. People are being bombed for no reason, in the knowledge that foreign powers can't help because it could very well trigger nuclear war, and all you can think of is a ****ing game of football?

[Kingdom]

If things remain much as they are now in western Ukraine, I'd encourage the FAI and the players to go ahead with both games. Things still seem quiet enough in Lviv, and it would be a chance to give Ukrainians a boost.

They could stay in Poland and go in and out for the country for the game.

I deleted my original post to step away and try and get some perspective before posting again.

I genuinely can't believe what you've written. the 'situation' is one of despair, and there is talk of public executions in the coming days, across the country.

The only thing giving the Ukrainians a 'boost', will be survival. And I can't stress that enough.

I'm flabbergasted

[Kingdom]

The Ukrainian FA right now don't want that. They're the ones asking for a postponement, and the main reason given is that domestic football is off (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/mar/03/ukraine-request-postponement-of-world-cup-qualifying-play-off-with-scotland). Their players can't prepare for an international football game when they're holed up in bunkers firing AK-47s at Russian teenagers.

Putin has stated his aim is to take over the whole of Ukraine, and there's worries about him moving further east into Moldova and maybe even Poland/Latvia/Lithuania. You can't say Lviv is fine now and sure we can play there in three months' time. (I don't think he has the resources - with sanctions - to drag things out for three months to be honest, but that's a separate matter)

And seriously, I can think of plenty of things Ukrainians want more than a game of football right now, or things they'd rather see us move heaven and earth to achieve.

Seriously, perspective here. People are being bombed for no reason, in the knowledge that foreign powers can't help because it could very well trigger nuclear war, and all you can think of is a ****ing game of football?

Exactly.
I'm seeing the genuine concern at what potentially is unfolding there on daily basis. We're looking at potential famine in Ukraine, and elsewhere next year, because of the impact of this invasion. Nobody seems to realise the reliance on Russian and Ukraine cheap primary produce by some of the poorest African nations.

Even allowing/ignoring that, no insurance company in the world would provide cover to travel there for a sports team

[backstothewall]

The Ukrainian FA right now don't want that. They're the ones asking for a postponement, and the main reason given is that domestic football is off (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/mar/03/ukraine-request-postponement-of-world-cup-qualifying-play-off-with-scotland). Their players can't prepare for an international football game when they're holed up in bunkers firing AK-47s at Russian teenagers.

Putin has stated his aim is to take over the whole of Ukraine, and there's worries about him moving further east into Moldova and maybe even Poland/Latvia/Lithuania. You can't say Lviv is fine now and sure we can play there in three months' time. (I don't think he has the resources - with sanctions - to drag things out for three months to be honest, but that's a separate matter)

And seriously, I can think of plenty of things Ukrainians want more than a game of football right now, or things they'd rather see us move heaven and earth to achieve.

Seriously, perspective here. People are being bombed for no reason, in the knowledge that foreign powers can't help because it could very well trigger nuclear war, and all you can think of is a ****ing game of football?

I'm capable of thinking of more than one thing at a time. I also think the defence forces should be sending them whatever they can spare, but the FAI won't have many rocket launchers knocking about, and this doesn't seem like the place to criticise the government for not doing more to help. The FAI do football, so the most they can possibly do is help deliver a soft-power defeat to Putin.

Having an international football team is one of the things that can define a nation. A Ukrainian international football match, at a time when Russia are trying to snuff out Ukrainian nationhood, and have been more or less banished from international sport, would be a defeat for Putin and his kleptocratic regime. Particularly if it could be done within the boundaries of Ukraine.

Although the match practice issue for the domestic players has given me a thought. Given that all visa requirements have been dropped for Ukrainians to visit Ireland, and that the League of Ireland is only 3 games in, a squad of players could come to Dublin and compete in the League of Ireland for the year.

I am very aware that the Ukrainian people face a desperate situation. That millions will without the basic needs for survival. But people need more than food and water to survive.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2018/02/05/six-fundamental-human-needs-we-need-to-meet-to-live-our-best-lives/

- Food
- Water
- Shelter
- Sleep
- Others
- Novelty

The FAI can help with the last 2.

[pineapple stu]

backs - stop talking. Seriously.

Could we invite Ukrainian players over to play in the LoI? What sort of crap is that? Their focus is on defending their homeland. Football is not important right now. Football is not the be all and end all - that really shouldn't be a tricky concept to grasp.

The FAI can help out with "Other" and "Novelty"? Those needs are utterly irrelevant when there's a fight on for food/water - and survival. Actually living through another day. If you spend your day focussing on basic needs, the more mundane ones become irrelevant.

Do you think Ukrainians would really be interested in watching a football game right now? Sleeping in underground stations, seeing reports of the genocidal Russians coming ever closer, hearing the bombs outside, wondering if family and friends and homes are ok or are blown to smithereens? Wondering how long all this will go on for? Wondering where your next meal is going to come from?

Again - perspective is needed here.

Edit - backstothewall, not benno!

[sidewayspasser]

We have absolutely no way of knowing what the situation will be in June. The invasion only started about a week and a half ago. Assuming the western part of Ukraine to be "quiet enough" in three months time may just be wishful thinking.
By June, it could be anything from a Russian retreat due to international pressure (unlikely, I think) to a total capitulation of Ukraine or even an escalation of the conflict beyond Ukrainian territory. Or a protracted standoff along a front line somewhere in Ukraine. It's impossible to predict, but most of the possible scenarios don't look suitable for an international football match.

[backstothewall]

benno - stop talking. Seriously.

Could we invite Ukrainian players over to play in the LoI? What sort of crap is that? Their focus is on defending their homeland. Football is not important right now. Football is not the be all and end all - that really shouldn't be a tricky concept to grasp.

The FAI can help out with "Other" and "Novelty"? Those needs are utterly irrelevant when there's a fight on for food/water - and survival. Actually living through another day. If you spend your day focussing on basic needs, the more mundane ones become irrelevant.

Do you think Ukrainians would really be interested in watching a football game right now? Sleeping in underground stations, seeing reports of the genocidal Russians coming ever closer, hearing the bombs outside, wondering if family and friends and homes are ok or are blown to smithereens? Wondering how long all this will go on for? Wondering where your next meal is going to come from?

Again - perspective is needed here.

I imagine the time will come when the people of Ukraine will want a football match as much as the besieged people of Sarajevo wanted to hold a beauty pageant in 1993, and that I think we should make some preparations to fulfil the fixture until such times as they tell us that they don't want to play the game. I note that they have asked for the Scotland game to be postponed rather than cancelled.

If they want to play the game, would you seriously suggest that we say no?

[pineapple stu]

The time for a game of football will come - but it's hardly now. We are making preparations for the games - easy to do when we have four games in June anyway; we just prepare for the other two.

I have never suggested we refuse to play the game if the Ukrainians are ok to play. What I have said is that they clearly don't want to play now and that fanciful drivel like bringing their players here to while away the time in the LoI is really, really unhelpful and ignorant of the reality on the ground.

[backstothewall]

The time for a game of football will come - but it's hardly now. We are making preparations for the games - easy to do when we have four games in June anyway; we just prepare for the other two.

I have never suggested we refuse to play the game if the Ukrainians are ok to play. What I have said is that they clearly don't want to play now and that fanciful drivel like bringing their players here to while away the time in the LoI is really, really unhelpful and ignorant of the reality on the ground.

I am very well aware of the reality on the ground. This shows all the signs of becoming a protracted conflict. The Russians are making very little progress, and even if that changes and they start taking towns and cities, they will almost certainly face a better armed and bigger version of the sort of insurgency I've already lived through once. But that's all wildly off topic.

In time those footballers will be able to offer much more to their country by giving hope to the guys in the trenches, rather than by joining them there.

[pineapple stu]

I am very well aware of the reality on the ground. This shows all the signs of becoming a protracted conflict.
Then why in the name of God are you suggesting the game could be played in Lviv?

And why are you coming up with fanciful stuff about the FAI signing the Ukrainian players to LoI teams just so they can fulfill a meaningless game of football in three months' time?

I'd argue that, unfortunately, at this stage being in the trenches is much more valuable than spreading hope and joy through football. It's a war.

[CraftyToePoke]

Let the man talk Pineapple.

And stop speaking for & indeed prescribing for, the people of Ukraine while you're at it.

[Kingdom]

They're both doing that though?

[pineapple stu]

Let the man talk Pineapple.

And stop speaking for & indeed prescribing for, the people of Ukraine while you're at it.
I'm going off the Ukrainian FA wanting the March games postponed because of the domestic situation regarding players. That's not me speaking for anyone. That's me taking what the Ukrainian FA have said, and arguing that it's clear that stuff like planning for the game to go ahead in Lviv, or saying "ah sure they should play the game to keep people in good spirits" or "let's move the players to the LoI so they can keep match fit" is not remotely helpful.

I haven't, as backs has suggested, said that if they want to play the game, we should say no. I'm suggesting we respect what they're asking for at the moment and stop trying to shoehorn a football match into their situation unnecessarily.

[Kingdom]

Editing posts at the first sign of trouble? just as well for the Ukrainians that you're not fighting in Kharkiv Pineapple....

[backstothewall]

Then why in the name of God are you suggesting the game could be played in Lviv?

Because the war isn't in Lviv. The distance between Kyiv and Lviv is massive. It would be like us moving a game from Dublin to Brest in France.

The Russians are held up in from of Kiev, and are being beaten back every time they attempt to approach the city. If that continues it may be possible to play 300 miles away in Lviv, which would allow the sporting integrity of Ukraine enjoying home advantage in one of the games to be retained. And if Lviv becomes impossible, the logistics of shifting across the border to Kraków make that a decent fall back option. If this game is going to be played in June certain logistics like flights and hotel bookings will have to be done sooner rather than later.

This is horrific, but it isn't a unique. War is a constant in the world, and football carries on in whatever way it can. Guys like Mo Salah and Edouard Mendy go to some pretty hairy places representing their country.

[Kingdom]

Because the war isn't in Lviv. The distance between Kyiv and Lviv is massive. It would be like us moving a game from Dublin to Brest in France.

The Russians are held up in from of Kiev, and are being beaten back every time they attempt to approach the city. If that continues it may be possible to play 300 miles away in Lviv, which would allow the sporting integrity of Ukraine enjoying home advantage in one of the games to be retained. And if Lviv becomes impossible, the logistics of shifting across the border to Kraków make that a decent fall back option. If this game is going to be played in June certain logistics like flights and hotel bookings will have to be done sooner rather than later.

This is horrific, but it isn't a unique. War is a constant in the world, and football carries on in whatever way it can. Guys like Mo Salah and Edouard Mendy go to some pretty hairy places representing their country.

The one thing being in a job where you're privy to sensitive information, is not being able to share/debunk some absolutely "out-there" thinking.