2022 Nations League - Group B1

[Insidetherock]

Id totally agree.. he's no Messi but a much better baller than given credit for, has given us some brilliant nights (Vienna, Cardiff), and if the next gen give us his commitment and passion we'll be doing all right. barring injury he'll get his century over the next two years and he deserves that

[seanfhear]

Id totally agree.. he's no Messi but a much better baller than given credit for, has given us some brilliant nights (Vienna, Cardiff), and if the next gen give us his commitment and passion we'll be doing all right. barring injury he'll get his century over the next two years and he deserves that
How many is he on now ?

[tetsujin1979]

How many is he on now ?88, could hit the century in March 2023
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[JR89]

He'll hit the century within the next two years. There's no one coming through to replace either him or Stevens in the squad. Scales needs to get games for Celtic first, Manning has been converted to a CB by Russell Martin, and don't see anyone from the underage making that step up within the next two years.

More likely to see someone step up at RWB as back up and Doherty moving across when everyone is fit. But even if that happened he'd still move back across when Coleman is out or playing RCB. Also feel McClean comes in before Stevens as second choice LWB if Doherty is first choice.

[EAFC_rdfl]

Would the most likely back 3 not be Duffy Egan Omobamidele/O Shea, meaning Coleman RWB and Doherty LWB?
McClean still likely to be used as an impact sub but he may end up a few caps short of the 100

[Insidetherock]

The draw for next years Nations League is next Thursday, and weirdly, I am absolutely on tenterhooks waiting for it. I've a feeling that it could be the most important tournament draw for us in a couple of decades.

The right one and we could be playing games against the real big boys of Euro football in two years, and going into a qualifying campaign with real momentum and a cohort of players who've been blooded in both friendly and competitive games.

The wrong one, and we could be getting used to playing games in far flung corners of Europe while playing under a new manager in the next Euro qualifiers

[Stuttgart88]

And doesn't the NL have more significance in terms of Euro qualification than WC qualification? If NL v3.0 is the same as NL v1.0 then you can secure a play-off before qualification proper even begins.

[Insidetherock]

And doesn't the NL have more significance in terms of Euro qualification than WC qualification? If NL v3.0 is the same as NL v1.0 then you can secure a play-off before qualification proper even begins.

They haven't confirmed that yet, but I'd be surprised if it has changed. Yes, if you won your group in v1.0, you were assured a play off spot (Scotland for example)

Even coming second in the group would give you a 90% chance of making a play off.

But I still think, we missed out on tournament games in Dublin last summer, so this is the perfect time to market the four games with two at home in June as a "mini tournament" and fill the stadium creating a good atmosphere. It's also a chance to get a big squad together for 3-4 weeks and give them a tournament type feeling, plus a lot more time on the training pitch

[pineapple stu]

There probably will be some change given that in the first tournament, the League D winners (North Macedonia) qualified, but since then they've rejigged the format so there's only seven League D countries instead of 16. I can't see a place going to Kazakhstan/Moldova, Cyprus/Estonia (the losers of those two ties in March will be relegated into League D), Liechtenstein, Malta, Latvia (previous qualifiers of course), San Marino or Andorra.

So maybe only three spots available? But even that in theory should favour us very slightly as it means no League D side (who we should be better than in the groups) to take a place off us.

[seanfhear]

Would the most likely back 3 not be Duffy Egan Omobamidele/O Shea, meaning Coleman RWB and Doherty LWB?
McClean still likely to be used as an impact sub but he may end up a few caps short of the 100
James McClean is a great fella and all but the fact he is not that far away from 100 caps kinda explains whereabouts we have been for a good number of years. Well done to James all the same ! !

[Insidetherock]

There probably will be some change given that in the first tournament, the League D winners (North Macedonia) qualified, but since then they've rejigged the format so there's only seven League D countries instead of 16. I can't see a place going to Kazakhstan/Moldova, Cyprus/Estonia (the losers of those two ties in March will be relegated into League D), Liechtenstein, Malta, Latvia (previous qualifiers of course), San Marino or Andorra.

So maybe only three spots available? But even that in theory should favour us very slightly as it means no League D side (who we should be better than in the groups) to take a place off us.

Yeah, only three spots available because Germany qualify automatically

[Insidetherock]

Right, the biggest draw in years for Ireland is coming up at five this evening. Who do we want, who do we want to avoid. This could make or break Stephen Kenny as the Irish manager, could see us right among the big boys in the next NL series, or see us floating around the depths of Path C

Kind of excited for this...

Iceland, Finland and Armenia would do thanks very much

Seeden, Russia, Albania.. ouch

[pineapple stu]

Funny how a couple of good results - largely against ****e opposition - can get a bit of excitement going again!

I'm still ok with getting one challenging team - Sweden or Norway - to see where we're really at. Sweden and Norway would be a disaster. Can fully understand the view that we'd be happy with the easiest possible group though, which has to be Iceland and Finland from the top two pots. All the others look decent tbh. Actually, if we avoid both Iceland and Finland, we'd be left with a very tough group regardless.

Sweden, Finland and Armenia for me. I'd like Finland in particular as it'd be interesting to compare how we are now against 12 months ago.

Is it streamed anywhere?

[tetsujin1979]

Funny how a couple of good results - largely against ****e opposition - can get a bit of excitement going again!

I'm still ok with getting one challenging team - Sweden or Norway - to see where we're really at. Sweden and Norway would be a disaster. Can fully understand the view that we'd be happy with the easiest possible group though, which has to be Iceland and Finland from the top two pots. All the others look decent tbh. Actually, if we avoid both Iceland and Finland, we'd be left with a very tough group regardless.

Sweden, Finland and Armenia for me. I'd like Finland in particular as it'd be interesting to compare how we are now against 12 months ago.

Is it streamed anywhere?

yeah, UEFA are streaming it on their site here
https://www.uefa.com/uefanationsleague/draws/2023/2001599/

[pineapple stu]

So -

Ukraine
Scotland
Ireland
Armenia

Now that it's on paper, it's not the worst of groups. But Scotland are improving under Clarke and while Ukraine were ****e at the Euros, they did at least get there and got out of the groups too.

I think it'll tell us a fair bit about where the Kenny project is at. Not sure if we can win it, but second is a possibility.

[pineapple stu]

And Sweden, Norway, Serbia and Slovenia was a group well avoided!

So we certainly can't have any real complaints about the draw.

Fixtures out tomorrow.

[centre mid]

Could've been worse but Ukraine will be tough. Scotland will be interesting, they've got a decent group of players going into the WC next year.

[pineapple stu]

Our first ever match with Ukraine actually, isn't it?

Does that leave Slovenia and Kosovo as UEFA sides we've never faced?

[tetsujin1979]

Our first ever match with Ukraine actually, isn't it?
Yeah, and Slovenia, if we had drawn them
The only other members of UEFA we've never drawn is Kosovo

Pretty even record with Scotland, but they're organised and improving, and Roberson and Gilmour are better than anyone in our squad right now.
I'm ok with Armenia, they're not as strong as they were when we faced them in qualifying for 2012, and we were the only team to win in Yerevan.

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[Insidetherock]

Objectives:

Don't finish last, don't want to go to Group C

Scotland will be interesting. Robertson and Gilmour mentioned, but they've also got decent players in Tierney and Mc Ginn.. but they're no World beaters

Knowing Putin, we'll be be playing Ukraine in Germany somewhere

[Poor Student]

Pretty even record with Scotland, but they're organised and improving, and Roberson and Gilmour are better than anyone in our squad right now.


As is Tierney, McGregor and McGinn. There's a lot of decent quality in their lineup playing at a high level. A definite test for us.

[Diggs246]

I was saying this before re Scotland was the team to avoid.
Ukraine and Armenia no problem . But kenny should be worried about Scotland. They are in a way better place then us and the average irish punter won't accept us been beaten by them.

[Insidetherock]

Possibly, but I'd also be looking for them at home in the first series of games, would be a solid sell out and great atmosphere

[pineapple stu]

I think that makes sense alright.

Scotland (H)
Then Ukraine (A) and Armenia (A) - minimise the travel
Then either of the latter at home.

Finish off with Scotland A and one last home game in September.

Scotland playing Ukraine in the World Cup playoffs in March; that'll be interesting

[Bucket]

Objectives:

Knowing Putin, we'll be be playing Ukraine in Germany somewhere

How did ya get to know him? I'd say he's some craic after a few pints

[DCWA]

Scotland and Ukraine are tough games alright but a good test and will give us a better odea of where we stand. Armenia I know little about.

[pineapple stu]

Armenia I know little about.
This year in qualifying, they drew at home to Liechtenstein and lost 5-0 at home to North Macedonia, but beat Romania 3-2 and Iceland 2-0.

So - God knows what they'll be like against us.

[backstothewall]

How did ya get to know him? I'd say he's some craic after a few pints

There's not much to him. He's only 5'6". I'd say he could be rubbered after 5 or 6 pints.

Getting back to the football, I'm delighted we've got Scotland. That means a **** up in Glasgow. Hopefully this one is played in Hampden. Celtic Park was nice as a one off last time, but I've never been to Hampden, so it would be nice to get a look at it.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Good group I think. Good chance of retaining position in that tier, and good tests of where Kenny will be against Ukraine and Scotland. What would people be happy with points wise? Suppose we should be aiming for 12? That'd be home-and-away wins against Armenia, four points at home to the other two, and two away?

[Insidetherock]

How did ya get to know him? I'd say he's some craic after a few pints

He's grand on the pints but if he starts on the vodka he gets messy... it's all Crimea this and Dos Vedonya that

Again, partially football wise.. wouldn't it just be Ireland's luck that he'd invade the week that Ireland would be there playing, and we'd be getting Skype messages from Davy Keogh and the Cliftonville Boys in Green about how they can't get out :)

Scotland playing Ukraine in the play offs will also be interesting.. one or the other will be pretty deflated after getting beaten and being knocked out of the World Cup.

I still think this is a massive opportunity to get players in for 2-3 weeks prior to the games and almost treat June like a mini tournament.

[pineapple stu]

Good group I think. Good chance of retaining position in that tier, and good tests of where Kenny will be against Ukraine and Scotland. What would people be happy with points wise? Suppose we should be aiming for 12? That'd be home-and-away wins against Armenia, four points at home to the other two, and two away?
Going unbeaten in the group instinctively sounds unlikely given we struggled to draw at home against Azerbaijan just ten weeks ago, and have never won a Nations League game (along with San Marino, the only nation to hold that "honour").

The four games in June will be interesting - we'll surely have to use some squad rotation for those? OK, you wouldn't in a major finals, but I can't see clubs being happy with their players playing four Nations League games in ten days. As it stands, we have one competent forward, and to stretch him over four games is a big ask (especially if he gets covid again!) OK, June is six months away, and things could come good for Idah/Connolly/Parrott in the meantime, or Keane/Scully could become options. But I think that four-game stretch will be a test for us. We've also tended to call up four centre-backs for three slots, so that's not leaving much scope for injuries (in the three-game run in September, we did get an injury and didn't call up a replacement). And all our wing-backs (McClean, Doherty, Coleman, Stevens) will be the wrong side of 30, so that's a big ask of them too. We've only what - two friendly games in March to try blood a couple of new options?

Armenia are better than Azerbaijan and Luxembourg, which isn't a particularly high bar. But they're capable of the odd upset, and Mkhitaryan can play.

On paper, Scotland are simply a better team with a better manager than us, and their last match was a 2-0 World Cup qualifying win over Denmark, which is a serious result. They seem to have kicked on from the Euros, when they were a bit toothless up front but otherwise quite unlucky not to do better (the Czechs in particular defended brilliantly and hit them with two sucker counters)

I don't know a lot about Ukraine's players to be honest (except Zinchenko can't be bad) but while they were awful at the Euros (yet somehow got to the quarters), their qualifying record tends to be decent, and they won at home to Spain and Switzerland in the last Nations League.

I think the minimum should be seven points - four from Armenia and one win against Scotland/Ukraine. Above that is into a bonus territory.

[Insidetherock]

Fixtures are out.. and they seem a little bonkers to be honest

Sat 4/6 - Ukraine (H)
Tue 7/6 - Armenia (A)
Sat 11/6 - Scotland (H)
Tue 14/6 - Ukraine (A)

Fri 23/9 - Scotland (A)
Mon 26/9 - Armenia (H)

I'm sure the FAI would have preferred a bit schedule (JD wouldn't have stood for this :) ), But flying over and back to Armenia midweek between the first two games seems a bit nuts.

Getting the other big two out of the way early.. what do people think?

[passinginterest]

Fixtures are about as bad as they could be, definitely missed a bit of JD schmoozing there! I think 10 points is probably the reasonable aim, anything more is a bonus, 9 or less and we're still struggling a bit.

[Jd2793]

the scheduling is insane completely unfair on players to be playing and travelling those distances in the space of 10 days for 4(!) games.

[pineapple stu]

I think the only way to avoid it would have been to have Ireland v Scotland back-to-back (and Ukraine v Armenia back-to-back as well)? Or else us and Scotland start with two away or home games against Ukraine/Armenia - but then the third round of matches is Irl v Sco and one of us will have started with either three home or three away games.

Still, fair to say that UEFA's ESG strategy has a ways to go yet.

[ifk101]

The scheduling is a mess but otherwise it is a group we are capable of winning. No one team is going to run away with it, every team will fancy their chances, every team will drop points. It suits us as a defensively strong but fluid team that is somewhat under the radar as an unknown quantity.

[tetsujin1979]

we struggled to draw at home against Azerbaijan just ten weeks ago, and have never won a Nations League game (along with San Marino, the only nation to hold that "honour")..
There's a few, ourselves, Andorra, Iceland (strangely), Northern Ireland, and San Marino

[pineapple stu]

Really? Didn't think it was that many. Iceland have been in League A both times - got relegated the first year and reprieved, only to get thumped again. Probably not surprising actually. (In fact, looking at the records, they've lost all ten of their games)

The North is unexpected tbh.

San Marino haven't even scored a goal in it! 10 games, two draws, but both 0-0s. We're the next worst attack (maybe that's what I was thinking of) with 2 goals in the tournament. Then it's Andorra with 3 and Iceland with 4 (against the big boys)

[Jd2793]

iceland have regressed massively, they are poor now. would have been great to get them as a top seed

[NeverFeltBetter]

Going to be getting a lot of air miles in June, by the time players get back to their clubs you're talking over 15'000 kms. That has to be a record for Ireland in ten days. That could be a factor by the time we get to Kiev.

[Real ale Madrid]

4 games in 10 days is too much for this squad.

7 points would be a great return.

[elatedscum]

Flights booked to Kiev for the games, always wanted to go after reading Kurkov. Was due to fly in mid March 2020 with the SO but covid happened... haven't been out of the country since July 2020, counting down the days...

[pineapple stu]

Kyiv's a fantastic city btw; highly recommended.

If you can tag on a day tour to Chernobyl, go for it. June will be a busy time I'd say - peak summer. I was there in March on a tour of four people (including the guide). To have a whole city to yourself like that is weird.

[Jd2793]

4 games in 10 days is too much for this squad.

7 points would be a great return.

too much for any squad given the travel on top of it all , with players fresh out of a long league season which now looks like it'll have big fixture pile ups in 2022. crazy.

[ifk101]

The scheduling of four games in June is the same for every team. Not ideal for us but there is more depth and rotation to our squad than previously, and beyond arguably Cullen, we don't have must start players essential to our play. Add to that, we have so few players that are first regulars at their clubs we should be relatively fresh and ready to go come June. :-)

[NeverFeltBetter]

Kenny says he aims to win the thing anyway: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/1216/1267245-nations-league-a-competitive-yet-winnable-group-kenny/

[mypost]

I think the only way to avoid it would have been to have Ireland v Scotland back-to-back (and Ukraine v Armenia back-to-back as well)? Or else us and Scotland start with two away or home games against Ukraine/Armenia - but then the third round of matches is Irl v Sco and one of us will have started with either three home or three away games.

Still, fair to say that UEFA's ESG strategy has a ways to go yet.

Games in the NL are arranged by UEFA, and are never arranged back to back.

There's no guarantee the away game in Ukraine will be in Kiev. Ukraine is so big, it can be played in several cities. Lviv is one of them, nearer to Warsaw than to Kiev.

Booking anything at this time is not advisable. There are no guarantees about anything to do with travel now, let alone 6 months time. Restrictions may range from playing behind closed doors to 2 week hotel quarantine upon arrival. Kiev is a great city, but it's not somewhere you want to waste time in.

[Snapshot]

4 games in 10 days is too much for this squad.

7 points would be a great return.
The tough schedule should be an advantage. It's a youthful squad with good international experience. Molumby, Cullen, Knight, O'Shea, Idah and Bazunu have amassed 69 caps between them. Throw in a bit of time management for Coleman, Duffy, Doherty, Hendrick, Egan, Stevens etc and we look very durable. I believe we're capable of ten points - six from Armenia, three from Scotland and one from what's left. This Nations League is ideal for us - an acid test for players and management.

[pineapple stu]

I see the South American teams are being invited in from the next tournament. That'll end any promotion hopes surely if there's a rejig of groups? It'll also give the chance of away games in largely empty grounds as the SA teams' games would all be in Europe.

Typical of UEFA to hit on a decent format for a tournament and then ruin it in the name of money

[JR89]

I see the South American teams are being invited in from the next tournament. That'll end any promotion hopes surely if there's a rejig of groups? It'll also give the chance of away games in largely empty grounds as the SA teams' games would all be in Europe.

Typical of UEFA to hit on a decent format for a tournament and then ruin it in the name of money

Uefa and Conmebol giving FIFA and their biannual world cup the middle finger with this move. If you're in League A it's gonna be good if you draw Brazil or Argentina. Can imagine their games will sell out in whichever country they base themselves.

It's also hard to see what format they'll use given Uefa use this tournament for qualification to play offs for EC and WC.