Serbia V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 24th March 2021 - World Cup 2022 Qualifier

[pineapple stu]

Can't have been lower than last anyway

[ColourfulPeanut]

Bit odd to be questioning Bazunu's readiness/call-up when Kelleher is 22 and has played a whopping 10 senior competitive football matches in his career and Kieran O'Hara is sat on the bench for Burton. He's a Man City player and a highly rated one at that. I'm convinced he'll be our keeper for a long time to come, even if his moment isn't right now.

Would you prefer if Bazunu was fetching the balls to warm-up Ederson at Man City?

[Trequartista20]

Question actually. Is Bazunu - playing at the 68th-ranked club in England - the lowest-ranked player we've ever called up? Let's consider English clubs only to avoid comparisons across countries. I can't think of any fourth tier call-ups, though I suspect there may be one somewhere. Don't think Amond ever got called up for example. Or Kinsella/Finnan when playing that low

Interesting question. Lots of 3rd tier players have been called up over the years. Amond was named in a provisional squad by Mick whilst at League Two Newport.

Brian Carey was called up by Jack while on loan at 4th-tier Wrexham I believe. Gary Kelly (the goalkeeper) was called up by Jack while at 4th-tier Bury, and made it as far as the bench, without ever winning a cap.

[sbgawa]

Don Givens was playing for Ireland still in 1981 while also playing for Sheffield United in the 3rd division.
He missed a penalty in the last minute of the last game of the season to get them relegated to the 4th division.

[sadloserkid]

Can't have been lower than last anyway

Second to last. :p

And aren't half the Rochdale team Irish? Shur call them all up.

[Diggs246]

I'm glad Christe is gone, nowhere good enough

[Trequartista20]

Don Givens was playing for Ireland still in 1981 while also playing for Sheffield United in the 3rd division.
He missed a penalty in the last minute of the last game of the season to get them relegated to the 4th division.

David Kelly at Walsall, Gerry Peyton at Bournemouth, Kevin Sheedy at Blackpool/Cardiff and Kevin Kilbane at Huddersfield are other 3rd-tier call-ups that spring to mind. There've been quite a few.

[Trequartista20]

I'm glad Christe is gone, nowhere good enough

So you're a non-believer?

[sadloserkid]

I'm glad Christe is gone, nowhere good enough

Cyrus? He's in the squad.

[DeLorean]

Just back to McGeady - when asked in that Q&A session directly about calling him up, SK highlighted the difference in quality between the PL/Championship and L1. He also sent his chief scout to the final in which McGeady basically settled the match.

With so many other far less proven L1 players in the squad, it is really a bit surprising and you can only assume he wants to push on with a younger squad and therefore McGeady wasn't really a serious consideration?

The scout was presumably sent to Wembley to watch Lee O'Connor instead, otherwise what was the point?

[Diggs246]

Cyrus? He's in the squad.

Christ your right

I missed his name there

[geysir]

Don Givens was playing for Ireland still in 1981 while also playing for Sheffield United in the 3rd division.
He missed a penalty in the last minute of the last game of the season to get them relegated to the 4th division.

Then Don went to play in the Swiss league, where "An Indian summer crept stealthily over his closing days."

[pineapple stu]

Bit odd to be questioning Bazunu's readiness/call-up when Kelleher is 22 and has played a whopping 10 senior competitive football matches in his career and Kieran O'Hara is sat on the bench for Burton. He's a Man City player and a highly rated one at that. I'm convinced he'll be our keeper for a long time to come, even if his moment isn't right now.

Would you prefer if Bazunu was fetching the balls to warm-up Ederson at Man City?
This was also covered on the other thread (or was it earlier on this thread?), but Bazunu is one of 32 Man City academy players currently out on loan. The higher-rated academy players are making their first-team City debuts instead. It's great we have a keeper at a top club (two, in fact), but we need to keep in perspective just how high-rated he is.

Kelleher, by contrast, has graduated from the academy meat-farm and has ousted an established Premier League keeper as Liverpool's number 2 choice. He's facing Salah, Firmino and Mane in training every day. I would prefer it if Bazunu was that highly-rated, yep.

BTW, googling Bazunu's form, I don't see any reference to rave reviews; just one League One Team of the Week award back in September. A Rochdale player did win League One's Young Player of the Month award for January, but it wasn't Bazunu. He deserves his call-up, and I'd give him a half against Qatar (assuming Kelleher is fit, which I hope he is), but I think we need to keep things in perspective here. There's a bit of a habit on foot over over-egging our young players (and then like Parrott, they go on loan to the second tier and make no impact). There's some promising players there, for sure, but the game is on Wednesday.

[pineapple stu]

David Kelly at Walsall, Gerry Peyton at Bournemouth, Kevin Sheedy at Blackpool/Cardiff and Kevin Kilbane at Huddersfield are other 3rd-tier call-ups that spring to mind. There've been quite a few.
The question really is lower than that though. Kelly and Carey are good shouts (I'm loathe to count Amond as the size of some of those provisional squads was such that I wasn't that far off!)

[DeLorean]

SK confident Connolly will be fit, with Kelleher/McClean more uncertain. Westwood wasn't available, he's not even training with Wednesday at present despite playing the other day, but confirmed his availability for future squads! As per Dan McDonnell on Twitter.

[pineapple stu]

OK, that's a positive at least. We don't have the strength to be forcibly retiring players like Westwood (or McGeady) really

But it does look like not all the 29 will make it, and what's quite a weak squad anyway will probably get weaker.

Not confident. Always darkest before the dawn maybe?

[CraftyToePoke]

Westwood wasn't available, he's not even training with Wednesday at present despite playing the other day, but confirmed his availability for future squads! As per Dan McDonnell on Twitter.

What fresh madness is this do we speculate ?

[pineapple stu]

Hey - playing without training worked for Paul McGrath, so I'm ok with it!

[paul_oshea]

SK confident Connolly will be fit, with Kelleher/McClean more uncertain. Westwood wasn't available, he's not even training with Wednesday at present despite playing the other day, but confirmed his availability for future squads! As per Dan McDonnell on Twitter.

That's interesting. But hes always made out hes been available, and then not been available.

[passinginterest]

Kelleher, Bazunu, Travers, O'Hara
Coleman, Doherty, Duffy, Stevens, Long, Clark, O'Shea, Manning, Christie
Hourihane, Browne, Hendrick, Molumby, Knight, Cullen
Brady, McClean, Horgan, Curtis, O'Dowda, Robinson, Connolly, Long, Collins, Parrott

Repeating the squad because I had to scroll back to find it. I'm not really disappointed that Westwood and McGeady have missed out. The consensus is that it's very unlikely we're going to qualify in this campaign, so I'm ok with Kenny looking to the future and giving the younger players competitive experience.

In terms of the starting team, the big call is probably to start Duffy or not. I'm not disappointed that Randolph has missed out, if we're going to play out it needs to be a Kelleher or Bazunu behind the back four, it takes away another no win decision from Kenny that Randolph is out anyway.

Duffy is the other big weakness when playing out, so does Kenny now make the big call there too? The fact he's horribly out of form makes it a lot easier to justify as does the fact O'Shea and Clark are playing to a better standard in a better league. I think if Kelleher is fit he starts ahead of Bazunu, but I wouldn't have the massive fear some seem to have of starting Bazunu either. He's playing regularly, highly regarded and we don't have a whole lot to lose.

Team may well be;
Kelleher
Doherty Clark O'Shea Stevens
Hourihane Cullen Hendrick
Robinson Parrott Connolly

I think he'll end up going with Cullen in the middle, he's the only natural number 6 that can sit in front of the back four really. He probably has to go with the experience of an in form Hourihane and, a maybe not in form but still playing regularly in the premier league Hendrick. I think that's especially true if he makes the big call to leave Duffy out and persists with Doherty ahead of Coleman at right back.

Front three is the hardest to call (and assumes we don't think about switching to a more regular 4-5-1). Robinson has looked very effective but hasn't played for a good while, so may be under pressure from O'Dowda who's only back from injury himself and has only shown flashes for us really. I have a suspicion Parrot will start up top, while he's not tearing League One apart he's been playing regularly all season and he's the future, I think it's another gamble the manager might take over the experience of Long or the mediocrity of Collins. Connolly starts if he's fit enough (maybe even as the centre forward, I think it might be his most effective position to be honest). Brady and McClean probably next in line, I don't think the formation really suits either, but if it's a more regular 4-5-1 they might both start. Brady probably the most likely to break into the starting lineup.

Bound to be more dropouts with either injury or Covid, lots of tough calls for Kenny no matter what. Hopefully his luck changes a bit and we can sneak a few jammy goals or bang in some screamers to build a bit of belief.

[Razors left peg]

Question actually. Is Bazunu - playing at the 68th-ranked club in England - the lowest-ranked player we've ever called up? Let's consider English clubs only to avoid comparisons across countries. I can't think of any fourth tier call-ups, though I suspect there may be one somewhere. Don't think Amond ever got called up for example. Or Kinsella/Finnan when playing that low

At the risk of starting a riot, Jack Grealish should have been called up for US tour when he was on loan at bottom of L2 with Notts County. Was ripping it up there and I fully believe he'd still be an Irish player if he was called up to that tour by O'Neill

[Diggs246]

At the risk of starting a riot, Jack Grealish should have been called up for US tour when he was on loan at bottom of L2 with Notts County. Was ripping it up there and I fully believe he'd still be an Irish player if he was called up to that tour by O'Neill
Hahaha riot in progress. And I'm not sure this thread is the one for that particular war

[Razors left peg]

Hahaha riot in progress. And I'm not sure this thread is the one for that particular war

Lets add Keane v McCarthy to the flames too and see the place burn down!!!

[passinginterest]

Just noticed the keeper Rochdale had on loan last season has just been called up to the Spain squad (he's the Brighton number one now). Some good pedigree lines there for Bazunu!

[Diggs246]

Lets add Keane v McCarthy to the flames too and see the place burn down!!!

There once was a treaty in 1921....

[pineapple stu]

I'm not really disappointed that Westwood and McGeady have missed out. The consensus is that it's very unlikely we're going to qualify in this campaign, so I'm ok with Kenny looking to the future and giving the younger players competitive experience. [...] I'm not disappointed that Randolph has missed out, if we're going to play out it needs to be a Kelleher or Bazunu behind the back four.
I'd be wary of this line of thought myself. If you're good enough, you're old enough, whether you're 36 or 16. Randolph and Westwood are good enough; there's a question mark over McGeady these days, but he's probably good enough based on how poor we are. I probably would have him in the squad on balance; he's the kind of player who could unlock a stubborn Luxembourg defence with a nice pass.

It's all well and good playing for the future, but not if it means, say, drawing at home to Luxembourg and then players' morale is going through the floor, and a feeling grows that Kenny isn't up to the task. We need to be pragmatic here.

In the event, of course, Randolph and Westwood aren't available, and there's a logical reason why McGeady wasn't selected. (McGeady may feel a bit aggrieved at being told League One wasn't good enough yet we have three League One keepers and a League One forward in the squad, but we're really stuck there and I take that comment as a sure sign that Kelleher will start)

[Olé Olé]

Just noticed the keeper Rochdale had on loan last season has just been called up to the Spain squad (he's the Brighton number one now). Some good pedigree lines there for Bazunu!

I didn't hear anything on whether Robert Lynch Sanchez qualified for us. That puts that to rest now.

[passinginterest]

I'd be wary of this line of thought myself. If you're good enough, you're old enough, whether you're 36 or 16. Randolph and Westwood are good enough; there's a question mark over McGeady these days, but he's probably good enough based on how poor we are. I probably would have him in the squad on balance; he's the kind of player who could unlock a stubborn Luxembourg defence with a nice pass.

It's all well and good playing for the future, but not if it means, say, drawing at home to Luxembourg and then players' morale is going through the floor, and a feeling grows that Kenny isn't up to the task. We need to be pragmatic here.

In the event, of course, Randolph and Westwood aren't available, and there's a logical reason why McGeady wasn't selected. (McGeady may feel a bit aggrieved at being told League One wasn't good enough yet we have three League One keepers and a League One forward in the squad, but we're really stuck there and I take that comment as a sure sign that Kelleher will start)

It's a fair point, I'm another one who thought McGeady was incredibly frustrating but there's no doubt he created goals and can still create (I went looking for some stats and I think in his last couple of qualifying campaigns he had something like 4 assists and 2 goals). It's definitely more of a risk to stick with the younger and unproven players, but it's also got much more potential for medium term reward (with more risk of Kenny not being there to see it too).

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, I just don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater is all.

Kenny's doing well blooding in new players already, and he's the manager to do it having worked with some of the guys at 21s level. But there is a place for experience in the squad too.

[DeLorean]

Definitely, I'm really disappointed with the exclusion to be honest. The standard of L1 is just an excuse I think and it must be more to do with his age or perhaps he doesn't think he'd suit the style he's trying to implement. It's obvious that McGeady's level is higher than L1, he's repeatedly been called the best player in that division. In a couple of months he could well be swapping divisions with Daryl Horgan for example, but I can't imagine that would change SK's thinking.

[paul_oshea]

Hes trying to implement a keep ball, keep possession style. Of course that rules McGeady out.

[pineapple stu]

Stephen Kenny on the goalkeeping position - (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0318/1204801-kenny-understands-concerns-over-goalkeeper-experience/)


Caoimhín has obviously played ten Under-21 internationals under me and he was brilliant, did very well. I think he's played five games for Liverpool this year too in the Champions League, so he's used to big games and it won’t be an issue for him.

Mark Travers is definitely the next one in

Other news is McClean is still a doubt though in the squad, while Richard Keogh may make a comeback in the autumn qualifiers and Parrott is unlikely to start given his recent form.

[elatedscum]

At the risk of starting a riot, Jack Grealish should have been called up for US tour when he was on loan at bottom of L2 with Notts County. Was ripping it up there and I fully believe he'd still be an Irish player if he was called up to that tour by O'Neill

At the time, I argued for both Grealish and Carruthers to be called up. Saw grealish play an FA Cup game against decent opposition and he was incredible. Meanwhile, Carruthers was excellent against Liverpool for Villa. Obviously they don’t all work out, but you take your chances with really exciting youngsters...

[Razors left peg]

At the time, I argued for both Grealish and Carruthers to be called up. Saw grealish play an FA Cup game against decent opposition and he was incredible. Meanwhile, Carruthers was excellent against Liverpool for Villa. Obviously they don’t all work out, but you take your chances with really exciting youngsters...

O'Neill was just being stubborn at the time, we had a load of players pulling out of that US Tour. It was when I first started to really dislike him

[Trequartista20]

You can't really argue too much with the squad Kenny's picked. McGeady's form maybe merited his inclusion, but given he's 35 next month and playing in the third tier, this would arguably be a regressive move. No-one can reasonably complain too much. It's good to see Bazanu in there though.

Kenny's in an invidious position really, and I do feel for him. The quality just isn't there.

I only hope Cullen is given a chance to prove himself.

I would probably have thrown a few of more of the younger players in there like Odubdko and Coventry, and perhaps Flynn and Ferry, We have little to lose. But this is more of a personal feeling than a criticism.

[Razors left peg]

You can't really argue too much with the squad Kenny's picked. McGeady's form maybe merited his inclusion, but given he's 35 next month and playing in the third tier, this would arguably be a regressive move. No-one can reasonably complain too much. It's good to see Bazanu in there though.

Kenny's in an invidious position really, and I do feel for him. The quality just isn't there.

I only hope Cullen is given a chance to prove himself.

I would probably have thrown a few of more of the younger players in there like Odubdko and Coventry, and perhaps Flynn and Ferry, We have little to lose. But this is more of a personal feeling than a criticism.

Id agree with you, especially with Cullen. To me he seems the ideal player too take the ball of the defenders and look to pass it forward.

[Razors left peg]

Ive just noticed that there is no James McCarthy included despite guarantees from our South America correspondent.

[elatedscum]

Ive just noticed that there is no James McCarthy included despite guarantees from our South America correspondent.

Trying to keep the Serbia coach guessing till the last minute

[DeLorean]

Ive just noticed that there is no James McCarthy included despite guarantees from our South America correspondent.

Not even a Jimbo McCarthy, disappointing.

[Eirambler]

Question actually. Is Bazunu - playing at the 68th-ranked club in England - the lowest-ranked player we've ever called up? Let's consider English clubs only to avoid comparisons across countries. I can't think of any fourth tier call-ups, though I suspect there may be one somewhere. Don't think Amond ever got called up for example. Or Kinsella/Finnan when playing that low

I'm fairly sure Kieran O'Hara was down in League 2 with Macclesfield when he was first called up.

[Diggs246]

Stephen Kenny on the goalkeeping position - (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0318/1204801-kenny-understands-concerns-over-goalkeeper-experience/)



Other news is McClean is still a doubt though in the squad, while Richard Keogh may make a comeback in the autumn qualifiers and Parrott is unlikely to start given his recent form.

The funny thing is kelleher was sh*t for the u21s !

Has done brilliant at liverpool to be fair

[pineapple stu]

I'm fairly sure Kieran O'Hara was down in League 2 with Macclesfield when he was first called up.
Good shout; you're spot on. Though was with Burton in League One for his two caps.

[liamoo11]

The funny thing is kelleher was sh*t for the u21s !

Has done brilliant at liverpool to be fair

Kelleher has been very good for the 21s and has always been good for us underage

[Charlie Darwin]

Tis kinda funny how no international manager ever fell in love with Long ~ ~ Since the retirement of Robbie Keane he is probably the highest level forward that we have and still no manager ever fell in love with Shane Long. Sometimes a bit of love is all it takes.
I think he's married already, old man.

[samhaydenjr]

Question actually. Is Bazunu - playing at the 68th-ranked club in England - the lowest-ranked player we've ever called up? Let's consider English clubs only to avoid comparisons across countries. I can't think of any fourth tier call-ups, though I suspect there may be one somewhere. Don't think Amond ever got called up for example. Or Kinsella/Finnan when playing that low

Callum O'Dowda had only played League Two football when he made his debut and was being considered for the Euro 2016 squad


At the risk of starting a riot, Jack Grealish should have been called up for US tour when he was on loan at bottom of L2 with Notts County. Was ripping it up there and I fully believe he'd still be an Irish player if he was called up to that tour by O'Neill

How dare you! What a ridiculous statement! He was never on loan at the bottom of L2 with Notts County! (they were L1 at the time)

More seriously on the squad - it pretty much picked itself, although I'd probably still have had Hogan over Parrott this time out (or maybe even Shodipo, given his current goalscoring form)

[Razors left peg]

Callum O'Dowda had only played League Two football when he made his debut and was being considered for the Euro 2016 squad



How dare you! What a ridiculous statement! He was never on loan at the bottom of L2 with Notts County! (they were L1 at the time)

More seriously on the squad - it pretty much picked itself, although I'd probably still have had Hogan over Parrott this time out (or maybe even Shodipo, given his current goalscoring form)

Really? I was certain I remembered them as L2 at the time

[seanfhear]

I think he's married already, old man.
Football managers have to be willing to go that extra step.

[pineapple stu]

The Serbia manager gives his view on the upcoming games (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0319/1204966-serbia-may-lose-players-ahead-of-ireland-showdown/) (might be a cue for a match-specific thread actually?)


We are aiming for nothing less than a maximum nine points and the shambolic performance against Scotland must never happen again while I am in charge.

He notes there's question marks over a couple of players due to covid restriction requirements at club level, with three players at French clubs - goalkeeper Predrag Rajkovic [Stade de Reims], defender Stefan Mitrovic [Strasbourg] and midfielder Mihailo Ristic [Montpellier] - possibly not going to be released as the game is outside the EU.

[DeLorean]

Really? I was certain I remembered them as L2 at the time

I'd have put good money on it being L2 also, but nope. Strange.

[geysir]

It was announced today that the 6 EPL based German and 2 Icelandic footballers can travel to Germany for the WC qual game.
Icelanders are happy because they reckon that their 2 top players are worth more to their team than the gain Germany will get from their 6.