England V Republic of Ireland - Thursday, 12th November 2020 - Friendly

[passinginterest]

O'Dowda is not in the game. Horgan and Idah much more involved. Browne has been a bit disappointing too. He's lost the ball too easily a few times.

[zero]

I read that as feels lucky to be 2 down which I would have agreed with. Played ok for 10 mins and shambolic since.

England going easy on us luckily.

[passinginterest]

I read that as feels lucky to be 2 down which I would have agreed with. Played ok for 10 mins and shambolic since.

England going easy on us luckily.

Ah I don't know. Really unlucky is probably an exaggeration but they haven't created a whole lot despite looking dangerous at times. We've had games where we conceded a lot more chances but great saves or blocks kept them level.

We haven't created enough since the early stages but even in the last few mins we were getting plenty of players forward before Hendrick tried a cross from completely the wrong angle and made it easy for Pope.

It's a mixed bag. It could get ugly, but feels like we could nick a goal and really switch the momentum too.

[Nesta99]

I know Kenny isn't a great speaker, but he really sounded out of his depth in that interview with Tony O'Donoghue on RTE

He is very considered in what he says to media especially live, to a fault. But I find it more refreshing than annoying with few of the usual platitudes and cliches that roll off the tongue. When he gets the bit between the teeth on something he feels strongly about, usually in defence of his players, he can command any press conference.

Anyone else think that Grealish is trying a bit too hard to show he is very English tonight. Smug when England scored and really driving hard more than you'd often see in 'friendly' game. Old hat about his switch but he is a loss to us regardless of how he had his head turned.

It's going to get harder and harder to keep people patient with this new setup, 2-0 down to England 1st half will have some people stamping their feet. But there have been some excellent phases of play, and they will be stitched together over time. As long is there is improvement obvious with how we play at the moment, results in the likes of these games are secondary. I fear a hammering tonight, simply because there will be the kneejerk overreaction to a result v England. Not necessarily the wisest choice of opposition imo, albeit wanting to pitch yerself against the better countries. As much as it will stick in the craw, this England side could be the real deal!

Still getting no rub with injuries disrupting plans, Egan added to the list.

[paul_oshea]

Its a bit worrying really, because you know whatever other manager we had whatever system was played we'd have come out of wembley with a draw. But for all the talk of having possession and and passing football, we have looked more than second rate against England. And defensively very fragile. I actually thought we'd improved slightly defensively but I just think now that was more the opposition than anything we were particularly doing. We are opened up very easily, when we dont have the ball and the counter is very dangerous for us, because defensively we cant go man to man. And you know now when we go behind its very unlikely we will score - perhaps a late consolation but nothing more. Very worrying indeed. Idah definitely isnt the future either.

We've always been well off the top, but rarely have we shown it so clearly, because we've made up in other ways. We need to have a system where we can contain the big teams, like before, like other managers before Kenny did. Don't be too proud or too stupid to just think we have to play passing, possession football, or we'll be throwing away more competitions just for a potential pipe dream.

[Closed Account 2]

Sloppy sloppy defending. We don't look like creating anything, feels like we are praying for an own goal from the opposition every time we play. The defence is very porous, things don't bode well at all. I would say, minnows aside, we are probably the team all other countries would most like to play right now.

[zero]

grealish is trying too hard is he? the cheek of him.

[Jovial Rambler]

When was the last time we came back from 2 goals down?

[osarusan]

Feel sorry for Idah up front, the closest he gets to the ball is chasing down backpasses.

We have no threat whatsoever in the final third. And our players know we have none, so they don't move up in support, so we give it away even more easily.

[zero]

abject. 2/10 first half. no signs of any improvement. basically the same as the other Kenny games bar Slovakia.

2 games coming up. 2 more losses and you have to start asking serious questions.

[pineapple stu]

Ah I don't know. Really unlucky is probably an exaggeration but they haven't created a whole lot despite looking dangerous at times. We've had games where we conceded a lot more chances but great saves or blocks kept them level.
There's been more last-ditch blocks in that half than I'd like to see over the full 90 to be honest.

[passinginterest]

Positives;
Doherty looks really effective at left back
Hendrick has looked better than other games recently
Horgan has been pretty effective
Idah has held it up well and brought others in without looking like scoring

Negatives;
O'Dowda and Browne pretty anonymous
Duffy has been woeful
Losing Egan didn't help, presumably Coleman was due to start to so that might explain some of the defensive holes

[paul_oshea]

Yeah, we started well but England have upped the pressure and we just can't hold the ball.

Worrying, but not unexpected

This is it, play the game that gets the best result. We're not doing that.

[pineapple stu]

Stats off livescore -

8 shots to 0
10 corners to 0
60% possession to 40%

This isn't far off the Dundalk v Arsenal game to be honest

[shakermaker1982]

Whichever bright spark within the set up thought an England friendly was a good idea needs shooting.

We look like we might concede every time England go forward. We can’t string more a handful of passes together and when we do lose the ball there is **** all attempt to get the ball back,

[paul_oshea]

Whichever bright spark within the set up thought an England friendly was a good idea needs shooting.

We look like we might concede every time England go forward. We can’t string more a handful of passes together and when we do lose the ball there is **** all attempt to get the ball back,

But isnt that what we have accepted in the vein hope of passing pleasing football? Without flagging a dead horse, play the system to get the best results.

[Nesta99]

grealish is trying too hard is he? the cheek of him.

If replying to me you are putting words in my mouth, I suggested he is trying too hard to unnecessarily make a point that isnt all about simply the game in front of him, a question in recognising there may be my own bias in that! Something he doesnt need to do, but I think is on his mind and could be wound up on it if someone was so inclined. Maybe its general arrogance or for Villa and England fans, confidence.

[DCWA]

It looks and feels like exactly what it is, a poor team against a good team. It may be admirable that the poor team are trying to play a bit as they say, the rest seems pretty inevitable and if we are honest did so from the minute the game was announced. I still can’t fathom why we are even playing this fixture. I am for all intents and purposes willing to write it off even if it ends as a heavy defeat which I strongly suspect it will.

The next two after this become very important for SK.

[backstothewall]

This is really poor stuff.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

The reality is that it may look better to be passing it around and playing out from the back etc but our players aren't good enough to play that style without conceding soft goals and we can't create many chances. We may not have liked their negativity but Trapattoni and O'Neill have been proved right, our players aren't up to it and to compete, we have to play negative football. I really wanted the Kenny era to work but it's crumbling here. He'll need two good results to save himself.

[pineapple stu]

When was the last time we came back from 2 goals down?
Good question. Ireland v Mexico in 2000, it seems - 2-0 down in the US Cup, and Dunne and Foley scored to make it 2-2, which is how it finished.

[backstothewall]

I've given up and turned the Jocks on.

[passinginterest]

We can't play out if Duffy is starting. He just can't do it. He can't even play a 50/50 ball when he is forced to hump it, it's just straight to an England player.

Browne is wrecking my head too, can't keep the ball at all:

And that's a terrible penalty to concede. Getting annoyed now!

[pineapple stu]

That's about 4 good chances for them this half alone, and then we help them with a soft peno.

The only hope now is that England let up. And don't bring on the likes of Bellingham who want to prove something.

[BonnieShels]

At least the IFA representative team are losing... Right?

[boovidge]

Maybe we'll improve with games to come but I fear, with this system, we'll only ever be like one of those La Liga minnows. They play pretty football but get blown away anytime they come up against one of the big boys who can do what they do but 10x better.

[zero]

I think England will lay off us now.

This isn't working. No positives.

[passinginterest]

Switch to a back 3 by the look of things. Will be interesting to see at least.

Or not, O'Shea just gone to right back it seems.

[shakermaker1982]

Losing can become a very bad habit.

[passinginterest]

Adds the pressure for the next two games. If we're honest this isn't unexpected, we had the hope of a raised performance because it's England, but without the crowd that was less likely. It's one of the top 5 teams in the world against one that's probably barely in the top 50 these days and it looks like it.

The next two games are much more important in terms of the Kenny reign. No goals and no wins and then the pressure really is on the try something different.

[backstothewall]

I've put it back on because i'm a gluten for punishment.

This is as bad an Ireland performance as i can remember since the dog days of Stan. England should be much further ahead.

I'm not calling for his head yet, but that day is getting closer.

[pineapple stu]

Iceland concede twice in injury time in Hungary to be knocked out of the Euros.

That'll be geysir taking a day off from the site anyway :p

[Lionel Ritchie]

ITV now cracking jokes about Hendersons two touches of the ball. If Trap was still in charge (6-1 Germany) or Martin O'Neill (5-1 Denmark) we'd still be getting dicked tonight because we don't have the players or the culture to produce them ourselves. I don't blame the players or Kenny for that matter. It is what it is. We're coming from a very low base where we've flattered to deceive by playing a considerable amount of anti-football with just occasional flashes of what could be. That policy, culture, ideology whatever got us a couple of qualifications that themselves proved counterproductive. We had no business at Euro 2012. None. Zero. And if we'd missed out Delaney would've been found out 7 or 8 years sooner.
It may take a decade or a generation to turn this around.
Ah ...and now Bellinghams on with something to prove.

[Closed Account 2]

I've put it back on because i'm a gluten for punishment.

This is as bad an Ireland performance as i can remember since the dog days of Stan. England should be much further ahead.

I'm not calling for his head yet, but that day is getting closer.

I think this is worse than the Stan games, at least we occasionally looked like scoring in those games. I think Kenny should go, there is no organisation, there is no cutting edge, there is no defensive cohesion. It hard to say what exactly there is (of a positive nature). He is out of his depth, by some distance.

[backstothewall]

I have no idea what Ronan Curtis is doing near an Ireland shirt unless he's buying one in Sports Direct but that is at least a shot on target.

[pineapple stu]

The worst Ireland team in living memory losing 3-0 to the best England team in living memory in a game that shouldn't even be happening is no reason to sack the manager.

Lionel Ritchie has it right when he says that there's far bigger problems in Irish football. This decline has been evident for years. Not Kenny's fault

[sbgawa]

Timing is everything , we had a manager Jack Charlton who played puke football with probably the best squad of players we ever had (would one player on the pitch tonight get into the 88-94 teams) and we have a manager now who wants to play football with possibly our worst squad ever.

[paul_oshea]

ITV now cracking jokes about Hendersons two touches of the ball. If Trap was still in charge (6-1 Germany) or Martin O'Neill (5-1 Denmark) we'd still be getting dicked tonight because we don't have the players or the culture to produce them ourselves. I don't blame the players or Kenny for that matter. It is what it is. We're coming from a very low base where we've flattered to deceive by playing a considerable amount of anti-football with just occasional flashes of what could be. That policy, culture, ideology whatever got us a couple of qualifications that themselves proved counterproductive. We had no business at Euro 2012. None. Zero. And if we'd missed out Delaney would've been found out 7 or 8 years sooner.
It may take a decade or a generation to turn this around.
Ah ...and now Bellinghams on with something to prove.

Your point would be somewhat valid, save kenny has had more than a handful of games now. Those were one-offs in those managers ireland careers(granted did always look like coming especially in Traps case). I really dislike this site the way people use one of or stupid results to try and disprove or prove their own point, from the generally glaring obvious point. It shows a serious limit in ability to see clearly and argue the case effectively.

[paul_oshea]

Timing is everything , we had a manager Jack Charlton who played puke football with probably the best squad of players we ever had (would one player on the pitch tonight get into the 88-94 teams) and we have a manager now who wants to play football with possibly our worst squad ever.

Yes and so you setup and do whats best for whats the best possible outcome, looking as good as is possible. You let those after you worry and work the underage and machine coming through.

[sbgawa]

bonner
Irwin, McGrath,Moran, Staunton
Houghton, Keene, Townsend, Whelan
Aldridge, cascarino

Would any player on the pitch tonight replace one of these

[passinginterest]

Going to keep trying to pick positives. Matt Doherty had been brilliant defensively of all the chances conceded almost nothing has come down his side.

Apart from not closing down very well for the Sancho goal, Hemdrick has been pretty good, busy and not giving it away as much as other games.

O'Shea is going to be a big player for us and I think the future is him and Egan.

Idah has huge potential, needs a run of club games but he showed little flashes.

In the run up to the game we lost 3 starters in Robinson, Connolly and Coleman. Before the squad we lost Stevens and McGoldrick. Early in the game we lost Egan, so its a long way from a first choice eleven. A lot of options getting chances and some showing they're not really up to it.

[backstothewall]

It's been easy for England. As an Irish sports fan you have to get used to losing to England. That's inevitable given the population difference etc. But it should NEVER be easy for them, in any code.

I have no problem with trying to play a bit of football. Some of the stuff we have played this last decade has been brutal. And it's important to have this club in our bag.

What gets me is the lack of pressing. Under Kenny we've stood off every opponent we've faced and let them play. We can't afford to do that against anyone, but doing it against the old enemy is unforgivable.

[Fixer82]

Timing is everything , we had a manager Jack Charlton who played puke football with probably the best squad of players we ever had (would one player on the pitch tonight get into the 88-94 teams) and we have a manager now who wants to play football with possibly our worst squad ever.

Check out the line-up when Ireland last lost to England. Great team. And they were nowhere near the game.

Jack came in and played the right system to get results. With very good players too to be fair.

Back to tonight, we can’t seem to counter attack at all.

Also, England’s passes go to feet. Ireland’s passes go a yard either side of feet which is always going to stop you attacking quickly

[centre mid]

Knives will be out for Kenny now. We've a lack of any sort of depth/quality. There are 5 or 6 players who shouldn't be anywhere near International football. A morale boosting win over Oman would've been preferable.

Doherty has spiralled downwards in the last 7 or 8 months.

[zero]

can't believe lads on here are going down the 'we don't have the players' route. why even bother playing at all in that case?

if you don't have the quality of players you have to come up with an approach that stops the other team playing. not just fold and keep trying to knock it about pointlessly.

this is a failure of tactics and management. it's early days but there are no signs of progress whatsoever.

[paul_oshea]

The reality is that it may look better to be passing it around and playing out from the back etc but our players aren't good enough to play that style without conceding soft goals and we can't create many chances. We may not have liked their negativity but Trapattoni and O'Neill have been proved right, our players aren't up to it and to compete, we have to play negative football. I really wanted the Kenny era to work but it's crumbling here. He'll need two good results to save himself.

It's difficult to disagree with this. I wrote this at half time, and its still fairly relevant, I hope today has been a wake up call for the ardent blinded fans, and for the Management too. You can talk as much as you like about building and possession but we're never going to have players capable of playing that game against England, but we have as in the past has shown against other teams the players capable of scraping out a draw or a freak result from time to time.

"Its a bit worrying really, because you know whatever other manager we had whatever system was played we'd have come out of Wembley with a draw. But for all the talk of having possession and and passing football, we have looked more than second rate against England. And defensively very fragile. I actually thought we'd improved slightly defensively but I just think now that was more the opposition than anything we were particularly doing. We are opened up very easily, when we dont have the ball and the counter is very dangerous for us, because defensively we cant go man to man. And you know now when we go behind its very unlikely we will score - perhaps a late consolation but nothing more. Very worrying indeed. Idah definitely isnt the future either.

We've always been well off the top, but rarely have we shown it so clearly, because we've made up in other ways. We need to have a system where we can contain the big teams, like before, like other managers before Kenny did. Don't be too proud or too stupid to just think we have to play passing, possession football, or we'll be throwing away more competitions just for a potential pipe dream."

Kenny is rightly getting an easier time than other managers would, the disinterest in sport in general with more pressing, major issues in peoples lives and the world , have all worked in his favour, corona has effected all teams but definitely he has been more unlucky than most with injuries and corona related pull outs. But he's had a lot of games now, and I dont see things improving greatly in the next 2 either. We are well off the ability of an England type team, but we're even further off battling to draws or even keeping the scoreline respectable. We still look nothing like scoring either. :(

Interesting to see hear that most people are now seeing that we do need to change and adapt except against the minnows/smaller teams - its encouraging. Those who think that they are better fans for wanting some nice pleasing brand of football
and willing to throw away campaigns for this dream are actually the selfish and less patriotic ones.

[shakermaker1982]

The only positive from tonight is that England took it easy on us in the second half.

Utter dross. Did we even put a decent tackle in? Not even a booking against England.

Kenny has to change something, this is not working.

[Closed Account 2]

Knives will be out for Kenny now.

I mean how many games do people want to give him? If we go 15 games without a win, 10 games without a goal, would people start to question him then? Or should he still get more time because the passing in out own half kinda looks pretty from a distance?

[paul_oshea]

The only positive from tonight is that England took it easy on us in the second half.

Utter dross. Did we even put a decent tackle in? Not even a booking against England.

Kenny has to change something, this is not working.

you didnt like my negativity shaker, but sadly its been well founded here. Being serious for a minute and not gloating but I saw it very early on, that is why more tahn anything i wanted this game, i wanted to be positive and hoped for a 1-0 but deep down i knew we needed a reality check, especially for the more blinded amongst us. We've got that now, and hopefully Kenny adapts accordingly.

ANd don't be fooled by who why when chose or let this game happen, it doesnt matter when or who you play, you have to be ready and be as effective as possible - we were nowhere near either today

[brine3]

bonner
Irwin, McGrath,Moran, Staunton
Houghton, Keene, Townsend, Whelan
Aldridge, cascarino

Would any player on the pitch tonight replace one of these

Randolph maybe. Bonner was hit and miss