England V Republic of Ireland - Thursday, 12th November 2020 - Friendly

[Bielsa´s irish]

There's a chance, as we'll probably be more motivated. Bigger standard gap than usual though, so it's a big ask.

A 4-5-1 is a good formation

[Bielsa´s irish]

I guess Southgate is gonna bring his strongest eleven

[tetsujin1979]

Squad announced, Coleman and James Collins return, no Shane Long
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[zero]

Midfield is interesting. Browne, Arter and Molumby all did well recently. Kenny seems to consider Hendrick and McCarthy his preferred options though.

Three games in quick succession so you'd think most of them will get game time.

[tetsujin1979]

No Cullen either, despite playing more for Anderlecht than Molumby has for Brighton

[tetsujin1979]

England squad announced.
Gulp.
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[Diggs246]

James collins is nowhere near international standard

[Exgrad]

Game will be going ahead two days short of the 30th anniversary of the 1-1 draw in November 1990, the qualifier for Euro 92
Full game is on YouTube
oxrHZHEm8cE

Dunphy talking some proper ****** right from the start of that clip! To think people once took him seriously!

[Fixer82]

Squad announced, Coleman and James Collins return, no Shane Long
1324335146963783680

Long didn’t take his chance when he got it

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

We all know that Long hasn't got a great goalscoring record and that won't change now but James Collins shouldn't be picked ahead of him. He's 29 and out of his depth at this level. The argument will be he offers something different but in my opinion, what he offers is not good enough. Looks like Idah will play the central role unless he plays Robinson there, Long coming off the bench would be far preferable than the option Kenny has gone for. This is all in my view as I said and what do I know?

I also think Cullen should be there but apart from that there's no real arguments and it's still a poor looking squad unfortunately and made poorer by McGoldricks decision.

[pineapple stu]

We all know that Long hasn't got a great goalscoring record and that won't change now but James Collins shouldn't be picked ahead of him.
Hard to argue against that alright.

Is Long injured or just dropped altogether?

Seems a bit much to drop him for three games; we'll probably need to use the squad a bit.

[Razors left peg]

Yeah I'm ok with Long being dropped but not to be replaced by Collins, doesn't make much sense

[Bielsa´s irish]

England squad announced.
Gulp.
1324350763586396161

we are doomed! Its a too powerful squad I thought James Maddison would make it as well. We cant compete this time.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Hard to argue against that alright.

Is Long injured or just dropped altogether?

Seems a bit much to drop him for three games; we'll probably need to use the squad a bit.

Maybe he asked not to be called up because of club commitments , not playing S.Long in Slovakia was a big mistake. He should have felt insulted by the way Kenny treated him about game time.

I understand Kenny is up for starting the youngsters

[Stuttgart88]

Kenny says he is dropped due to lack of game time but is on standby.

[ColourfulPeanut]

That wasn't a problem to him when O'Dowda hadn't kicked a ball for Bristol City or Parrott not playing a minute since last March.

[seanfhear]

That wasn't a problem to him when O'Dowda hadn't kicked a ball for Bristol City or Parrott not playing a minute since last March.
Maybe Long said give the young fellas a chance if you are to going to play me !

[tetsujin1979]

Nothing to stop Long from being called up after the friendly for the Nations League games.

[elatedscum]

Hopefully Long plays tonight and scores a hat trick...

[seanfhear]

Hopefully Long plays tonight and scores a hat trick...
Give us the Lottery numbers will ya !

[Bielsa´s irish]

I guess the omission of Shane Long is not required atm, a sensible manager would have called him up. And Im telling you a heavy defeat vs the 3 lions lets say 4-0 and more will be the end of Kenny's tenure

[zero]

kenny is going nowhere for a while, even if we lose 10-0. if he loses both nations league games the pressure will start to mount.

in any case I expect England to ease off the gas when they are ahead. 3-1 maybe.

[nigel-harps1954]

I guess the omission of Shane Long is not required atm, a sensible manager would have called him up. And Im telling you a heavy defeat vs the 3 lions lets say 4-0 and more will be the end of Kenny's tenure

And sensible would be Cillian sheridan?

Shane Long will be 34 in two months. 36 by the time the world cup comes around. His best days are behind him, and he's not starting for Southampton, only playing bit part for them. What justification would there be for a callup?

[pineapple stu]

If he's in the best 4/5 striking options we have, he should be called up regardless of age.

I think he probably still is. That's a reflection of how ****e our striking options are, mind.

But certainly an argument can be made the other way alright.

[John83]

I'd probably call him up at this point to take advantage of his experience in training. In the absence of McGoldrick, we have the choice between kids and journeymen, so he brings something different in that sense. I don't think he makes much practical difference to our goal threat though, so while it's an important decision it's hardly one I'd criticise even if disagree with Kenny over it. Maybe another game at this level for Idah is the right call.

[nigel-harps1954]

I think there's likely a lot of nostalgic reasons for calling up Shane Long.

Doesn't do it for me though. Four years since he scored for Ireland, and only two goals in the league for Southampton last season.

I can understand the 'experience in the dressing room', or even training pitch, but surely we've already got that head in there in the form of Damien Duff and Keith Andrews?

[pineapple stu]

Four years since he scored for Ireland, and only two goals in the league for Southampton last season.
While I can get that alright, I still think you have to compare that to who else is in the squad.

Robinson - 1 goal in 15 caps. 5 goals last season, only 1 of which was in the Premier
Connolly - yet to score in 5 caps. 3 league goals last year. Brighton have bought Wellbeck to replace him
Idah - yet to score in 3 caps. Scored a hat-trick in the FA Cup last year and nothing else.
Collins - 1 goal in 4 caps. Solid first season at Championship level last year. Hasn't looked up to international standard as yet though.
Curtis - yet to score in 4 caps. Playing in the third tier.

And that's it. That's the worst forward line I think we've ever had. I'm not sure Long worse than all of those, even now.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I wasnt born in Ireland so it is hard for me to believe we are still discussing Shane Long, I watched the last 3 games and he played just a bit, when the guy was on the pitch we looked like with a chance to score, looked more dangerous etc, hurried the defenders etc

The guy is still pacey, useful good in the air, good football mate in the dressing room to have around, can play right forward if we play 3 up front. Kenny got this one wrong.

[Bielsa´s irish]

kenny is going nowhere for a while, even if we lose 10-0. if he loses both nations league games the pressure will start to mount.

in any case I expect England to ease off the gas when they are ahead. 3-1 maybe.

Zero clever nickname of yours, let me tell ya something my good mate if Ireland gets a heavy defeat vs England, Kenny is gonna be out

[seanfhear]

Zero clever nickname of yours, let me tell ya something my good mate if Ireland gets a heavy defeat vs England, Kenny is gonna be out
Alwight my old **** can you hear the Bells !

[nigel-harps1954]

While I can get that alright, I still think you have to compare that to who else is in the squad.

Robinson - 1 goal in 15 caps. 5 goals last season, only 1 of which was in the Premier
Connolly - yet to score in 5 caps. 3 league goals last year. Brighton have bought Wellbeck to replace him
Idah - yet to score in 3 caps. Scored a hat-trick in the FA Cup last year and nothing else.
Collins - 1 goal in 4 caps. Solid first season at Championship level last year. Hasn't looked up to international standard as yet though.
Curtis - yet to score in 4 caps. Playing in the third tier.

And that's it. That's the worst forward line I think we've ever had. I'm not sure Long worse than all of those, even now.

Robinson - Has two goals this season so far for West Brom in the Premier League. He's had a good start to the year and in on current form.
Connolly - A worry in terms of Welbeck being signed, but I don't think he's been signed as a replacement. They needed extra bodies up front and they've simply got another option. But he's talented and young, and the future for us.
Adam Idah - One goal and one assist this season so far, despite only starting one game for Norwich. Another who's the future for us and I've no problem with him in the squad.
Collins - Our in-form striker. He's in because he's had a good start to the season with Luton in the Championship. None of our other options have five goals. If you weren't calling up a goalscoring striker there'd be questions asked.
Curtis - I can take or leave. He's in League One, but, saying that, he's scored three goals so far, and two assists, as a winger, is bang in form.

[pineapple stu]

Yep, they're all valid counter arguments alright, though none really stands out for me as anything special. I don't think it's a clear-cut decision either way for sure.

The young guys are the future alright, but that doesn't mean they're the present yet. I still think one or two of them won't make it at all. Southampton btw are going top of the league at the moment, so a squad player in that squad is probably worth the same as a few goals at a lower division (especially as Long's game isn't really all around scoring goals). Idah isn't getting his game - not sure what that says about his readiness at the moment. Curtis - League One stats aren't really that impressive tbh. Collins - maybe, but as I say, hasn't impressed at international level yet.

At pretty much any time in the past 30 years, I'd have no problems with Long being put out to pasture now. That I'm not convinced it's the right decision now is more a sign of our awful attacking options than Long's ability. And given we've scored once in five games, I think we need all the options up front we can muster for the next three games.

[Charlie Darwin]

Long has come on a couple of times under Kenny and disappeared. Even when he plays for Southampton he tends not to go anywhere near the goal. He's a willing runner it's hard to see what he'd actually offer. Maybe you could say the same about Collins but you can see more how he'd fit into the team.

[seanfhear]

Long has come on a couple of times under Kenny and disappeared. Even when he plays for Southampton he tends not to go anywhere near the goal. He's a willing runner it's hard to see what he'd actually offer. Maybe you could say the same about Collins but you can see more how he'd fit into the team.
Goal scorer’s should stay near the Goal as much as the game allows.

I remember some interviewer asking a Cork Hurler renowned for getting goals ( a butty fellow , I think his name was Charlie O’Leary or something ) how he got so many goals ~ ~ his reply ~ ~ “ stay near the goals ". Ok, hurling is a different sport but even in soccer you have to attempt to play a game that keeps your goalscorer (if you are lucky enough to have one ) near the goals. When you see your main goal scoring threat everywhere but near the goal you have to wonder how high their confidence is in their own goal scoring.

[Fixer82]

If Long had scored that header against Wales he’d be in the squad

[Bielsa´s irish]

If Long had scored that header against Wales he’d be in the squad
well thats why i said not sensible mananging, unless an argument

[Bielsa´s irish]

some might say that England will play a second string team vs the Republic, i have to disagree,,,, this is a clasico, not a random friendly with N.Z. so i expect this following team from Southgate

.................................................. ................Pickford.......................... ............................

Trent A-A--------------------------Walker------------------------------Dier--------------Chilwell

-----------W.P---------------------------------Rice---------------------------Henderson

--------Rashford---------------------------------Kane-------------------------Grealish

[Bielsa´s irish]

here you go

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12016/12127142/gareth-southgate-says-jack-grealish-and-declan-rice-will-flourish-for-england-after-switch-from-republic-of-ireland

[elatedscum]

some might say that England will play a second string team vs the Republic, i have to disagree,,,, this is a clasico, not a random friendly with N.Z. so i expect this following team from Southgate

.................................................. ................Pickford.......................... ............................

Trent A-A--------------------------Walker------------------------------Dier--------------Chilwell

-----------W.P---------------------------------Rice---------------------------Henderson

--------Rashford---------------------------------Kane-------------------------Grealish

Walker and Daier aren’t gonna play centre half when they have Gomez, Maguire, Coady, Mings and Keane to choose from...

This is Southgate’s preferred team when everyone is fit:

Pickford

Trent
Gomez
Maguire
Chilwell

Rice
Henderson
Mount

Sterling
Kane
Sancho/Rashford

-

Think it’ll be a mix of them and other guys. There are players like Coady, Grealish who have done well for England without much opportunity who could come in. Guys like Henderson, Mount, Rashford who have had ongoing injury issues they’ve been managing while playing and the likes of Gomez, Pickford, Maguire who are out of form. Then the established lads who have nothing to prove and could be rested: Sterling, Kane, Trent etc.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Walker and Daier aren’t gonna play centre half when they have Gomez, Maguire, Coady, Mings and Keane to choose from...



This is Southgate’s preferred team when everyone is fit:

Pickford

Trent
Gomez
Maguire
Chilwell

Rice
Henderson
Mount

Sterling
Kane
Sancho/Rashford

-

Think it’ll be a mix of them and other guys. There are players like Coady, Grealish who have done well for England without much opportunity who could come in. Guys like Henderson, Mount, Rashford who have had ongoing injury issues they’ve been managing while playing and the likes of Gomez, Pickford, Maguire who are out of form. Then the established lads who have nothing to prove and could be rested: Sterling, Kane, Trent etc.

I guess Maguire is suspended for the red , vs the danes
according to what i read and understood from the article from sky,,,, The vestman will play Rice, Grealish and Keane against the Republic, with all that poppy and all that farce. But listen, this is some case of chauvinism of the worst quality if u can measure this patronising arrogance in some way

[tetsujin1979]

How is it chauvinistic?

[elatedscum]

Unless I’m very mistaken, any suspensions would count for competitive and not international friendly

[Bielsa´s irish]

How is it chauvinistic?

It Stands for Nicholás Chauvin my good man! Eric Howsbawm and Émile Durkheim talked about it as well. The concept of a nation.is chauvinism,

[DCWA]

It Stands for Nicholás Chauvin my good man! Eric Howsbawm and Émile Durkheim talked about it as well. The concept of a nation.is chauvinism,

Fantastic.

[elatedscum]

Stevens ruled out through injury. Christie the replacement. Probably means it'll be Coleman on one side and Doherty on the other.

Other option is to play Brady at left back. If you're not planning to play Hourihane then there is at least some merit to that argument.

[Eirambler]

I think we're about to find out that Doherty and Coleman can technically play in the same 11 after all, as Kenny said they could.

I could see this game being a bit of a disaster for us to be honest.

[Bielsa´s irish]

coleman duffy egan doherty

[Bielsa´s irish]

Fantastic.
I know. I didnt wanna brag about Hannah Arendt.

Back to topic what about the poppy symbol,? Will they wear it? Will be anything like the games of today about the minute of silence and all that chauvinistic colonialism?

[tetsujin1979]

no, today was remembrance sunday, and poppies aren't worn after it

[Fixer82]

no, today was remembrance sunday, and poppies aren't worn after it

I wouldn't bank on that.