League Cup 2019

[MattB11]

Congrats to Dundalk 👏

[sullanefc]

Get up the yard. Stick to the hurling.
You don't think he dived? Time to go to specsavers.

[ToberonaTornado]

You don't think he dived? Time to go to specsavers.

way and have a pint or 2 ffs
wasnt 1 derry fan at the bw thought it wasnt 2nd yellow a s.o

fair play to and comiss to dcfc,tight fought game and unlucky,lottery of pens always a bad way to lose

[joey B]

Fair play Dundalk better side won,Derry competed manfully with 10 men and penalties left it a lottery.
Silly scenes at the end ,soured a good occasion a bit........

[sullanefc]

way and have a pint or 2 ffs
wasnt 1 derry fan at the bw thought it wasnt 2nd yellow a s.o

fair play to and comiss to dcfc,tight fought game and unlucky,lottery of pens always a bad way to lose
None of ye will address the dive though... 😂
Ye should go in to politics. A lot of talk while dodging the issue!!! 😂

[sullanefc]

wasnt 1 derry fan at the bw thought it wasnt 2nd yellow a s.o



And what has that got to do with whether he dived or not? That'd be like saying the Dundalk player didn't handle the ball last week because the "Cork City fans didn't make a fuss about it".

Oh wait. Ye did say that...

Ye dalk heads have a funny way of justifying cheating...

[Nesta99]

And what has that got to do with whether he dived or not? That'd be like saying the Dundalk player didn't handle the ball last week because the "Cork City fans didn't make a fuss about it".

Oh wait. Ye did say that...

Ye dalk heads have a funny way of justifying cheating...

You focus on keeping away from the relegation play-off and leave the debate to those of us in the hunt for trophies!

[White Horse]

Fair play to Derry tonight, they played very well when down to 10 men. The extra player was not noticeable as Derry's shape and cohesive movement was excellent.

The playing conditions were difficult, a swirling wind, and very greasy and fast surface. Both keepers made mistakes that were at least partly due to the conditions.

Penalties are a horrible way to decide a final and the scenes at the end were very disappointing. The Dundalk fans who invaded the pitch were roundly booed by the rest of the Dundalk fans and I expect they will get lengthy bans from the club.

[DCWA]

Tbh I hate criticism of fans invading pitches we have seen it plenty of times with Rovers being criticised for it and tonight Dundalk. Just won a cup final away from home enjoy it and don’t worry about running on the pitch ffs.

Hard to swallow for us but such is life, another 2-2 draw which is a bit of a crazy run.

No issues with McGrath cheating but Jarvis cupping his ears him being a Lonemoor Road man, hopefully he cops a bad one.

[sullanefc]

You focus on keeping away from the relegation play-off and leave the debate to those of us in the hunt for trophies!
Again, dodging the cheating issue. 😂 Ye should seriously consider politics.

[ToberonaTornado]

League cup WINNERS
10 points clear in the prem
s/f FAI cup

:D
Derry,Shams & even Cork fans having a pop at us ;)
We must be doing something right.

yeoooooooooooooooo!!!

[Ezeikial]

No issues with McGrath cheating but Jarvis cupping his ears him being a Lonemoor Road man, hopefully he cops a bad one.

If you have a look again at the Gillespie second yellow it should be obvious that Grant Gillespie made a dangerous lunge at the ball and was no where near it - it was a yellow card all day long.

Jamie McGrath had already played the ball and appears to hurdle the challenge. Whether McGrath stays on his feet or not is irrelevant, it was a clear booking for a dangerous and late challenge. If he actually connected with McGrath it could easily have been a straight red. The ref was very close to the incident.

Grant Gillespie was thwe author of his own misfortune

https://twitter.com/eirSport/status/1172968389154938880

Derry played with great spirit and determination for 60 minutes with 10 men

[disgruntled]

How many times have we seen players pick up stupid yellow cards which come back to haunt them ?
In the heat of the moment people do stupid things.
Last night was the perfect example.
Referee was perfectly correct in his decision.

[sullanefc]

If you have a look again at the Gillespie second yellow it should be obvious that Grant Gillespie made a dangerous lunge at the ball and was no where near it - it was a yellow card all day long.

Jamie McGrath had already played the ball and appears to hurdle the challenge. Whether McGrath stays on his feet or not is irrelevant, it was a clear booking for a dangerous and late challenge. If he actually connected with McGrath it could easily have been a straight red. The ref was very close to the incident.

Grant Gillespie was thwe author of his own misfortune

https://twitter.com/eirSport/status/1172968389154938880

Derry played with great spirit and determination for 60 minutes with 10 men

No one is arguing about it being a yellow. But McGrath dived/cheated in order to sell it to the ref. But none of ye can admit it despite it being as clear as day. 😂

While it was a stupid challenge by Gillespie, it is also quite likely that if McGrath stays on his feet (which he could have done IMO) the ref may not have booked Gillespie. Ergo, McGrath's cheating has probably got him sent off.

[dundalkfc10]

Tbh I hate criticism of fans invading pitches we have seen it plenty of times with Rovers being criticised for it and tonight Dundalk. Just won a cup final away from home enjoy it and don’t worry about running on the pitch ffs.

Hard to swallow for us but such is life, another 2-2 draw which is a bit of a crazy run.

No issues with McGrath cheating but Jarvis cupping his ears him being a Lonemoor Road man, hopefully he cops a bad one.

Jarvis was getting abuse from min he came on and every timr he warmed up.

Fair play to him for giving a bit back

[mcgonigle]

No one is arguing about it being a yellow. But McGrath dived/cheated in order to sell it to the ref. But none of ye can admit it despite it being as clear as day. 😂

While it was a stupid challenge by Gillespie, it is also quite likely that if McGrath stays on his feet (which he could have done IMO) the ref may not have booked Gillespie. Ergo, McGrath's cheating has probably got him sent off.

Read your post again. Then log off and never come back. You've contradicted yourself so many times there it's hilarious.

[ToberonaTornado]

So the ref was right with the sending off but Dundalk are cheating b*stards? :confused:

[pineapple stu]

You can't lunge in two-footed and studs up while on a yellow; it doesn't matter if you make contact or get the ball or any of those cliches.

No debate required here I think.

[sullanefc]

Read your post again. Then log off and never come back. You've contradicted yourself so many times there it's hilarious.
Try learning to read. No contradictions. I used big words like "may", "likely" and "probably" when talking about what may have happened if McGrath stayed on his feet. The only definite is that he dived. Yet none of ye will admit it. The denial is staggering. 😂

[marinobohs]

No one is arguing about it being a yellow. But McGrath dived/cheated in order to sell it to the ref. But none of ye can admit it despite it being as clear as day. 😂

While it was a stupid challenge by Gillespie, it is also quite likely that if McGrath stays on his feet (which he could have done IMO) the ref may not have booked Gillespie. Ergo, McGrath's cheating has probably got him sent off.
No one is arguing about it being a yellow EXCEPT YOU 😳
Card was justified for the challenge IMO.
Fair dues to Dundalk, would have probably preferred Derry to win (just for novelty) but Dundalk have that knack of getting the result.

[sullanefc]

You can't lunge in two-footed and studs
I think your making the challenge sound worse than it was. I'm aware that dangerous challenges can receive yellows regardless of contact. IMO this was not one of those challenges.

When I saw it first, I didn't think dangerous, I thought it was a cynical challenge/professional foul to prevent a counter attack. If McGrath stays on his feet, and launches a counter attack, it is quite likely that the ref waves play on and does not book Gillespie.

Regardless of whether it was a yellow card or not, because we could go around the houses on that one, would you not agree that McGrath dived to the ground without contact?

[sullanefc]

No one is arguing about it being a yellow EXCEPT YOU 😳
Card was justified for the challenge IMO.
Fair dues to Dundalk, would have probably preferred Derry to win (just for novelty) but Dundalk have that knack of getting the result.
You don't think McGrath dived?

[pineapple stu]

There was no contact alright.

But the ref's decision was still right, because the challenge was potentially dangerous. So there's no "going round the houses on that one"; it was a clear yellow, regardless of whether McGrath went to ground or not.

[sullanefc]

There was no contact alright.


Did McGrath dive?

[Ezeikial]

Regardless of whether it was a yellow card or not, because we could go around the houses on that one

You have already said that no one is arguing about it being a yellow card! Two yellows equals a red. Its fairly simple.

The player is responsible for his own actions. You seem to be the only one wanting to cast blame elsewhere

[sullanefc]

You have already said that no one is arguing about it being a yellow card! Two yellows equals a red. Its fairly simple.

The player is responsible for his own actions. You seem to be the only one wanting to cast blame elsewhere

Did McGrath dive though?

Umpteenth time asking this simple yes/no question that no one wants to answer.

[pineapple stu]

Did McGrath dive?
Probably did. I don't care in this instance though.

Do you agree it was a sending off regardless of whether McGrath dived or just lost his balance trying not to pick up an injury?

Because in no way am I making the challenge sound worse than it was, like you suggest.

[sullanefc]

You have already said that no one is arguing about it being a yellow card! Two yellows equals a red. Its fairly simple.

The player is responsible for his own actions. You seem to be the only one wanting to cast blame elsewhere

BTW, when I said no one was arguing the yellow, that is not the same as saying there is no argument. I outlined an argument to stu above. But I've no interest in arguing if it was a yellow or not.

I'm more interested in if people think McGrath dived? Yet everyone is dodging/deflecting/talking about something else like a bunch of spinning politicians. It really is a simple question.

[sullanefc]

Probably did.
Finally. Thank you.


Do you agree it was a sending off regardless of whether McGrath dived or just lost his balance trying not to pick up an injury?

I don't care in this instance though.

[pineapple stu]

You really should.

Because it's by far the bigger issue. Otherwise, you're just getting lost in some anti-Dundalk rant and ignoring what really matters.

So I'll ask you again - because whether you care or not is irrelevant - do you agree it was a sending off regardless of whether McGrath dived or just lost his balance trying not to pick up an injury?

(Ironic of you not to answer a direct question seeing as that's exactly what you're giving out about others doing...)

[sullanefc]

You really should.

Because it's by far the bigger issue. Otherwise, you're just getting lost in some anti-Dundalk rant and ignoring what really matters.

So I'll ask you again - because whether you care or not is irrelevant - do you agree it was a sending off regardless of whether McGrath dived or just lost his balance trying not to pick up an injury?

(Ironic of you not to answer a direct question seeing as that's exactly what you're giving out about others doing...)
How about the fact that I already answered you at the top of this page. 🙄

And I will add to my post above that McGrath could have hurdled the challenge without diving.

[pineapple stu]

Hurdling a challenge like that doesn't make it not a yellow.

Lunging in like that is a dangerous tackle, and the reason it's an automatic yellow is to avoid player injury. Had he hurdled the tackle, the ref would have been perfectly entitled to give a free anyway and send yer man off.

So your analysis is wrong.

[sullanefc]

Hurdling a challenge like that doesn't make it not a yellow.

Lunging in like that is a dangerous tackle, and the reason it's an automatic yellow is to avoid player injury. Had he hurdled the tackle, the ref would have been perfectly entitled to give a free anyway and send yer man off.

So your analysis is wrong.
Do you think that if he had hurdled the challenge, got the ball and created a chance that the ref would have 100% come back and branded a yellow card? Because there are plenty of incidents where refs don't go back and book the player.

My only argument really is that McGrath dived to ensure the yellow card? Would you not agree with that?

There is a wider football argument that, that is the way the game is gone. Players must go down to get the free. And we could argue the morals of whether that is right or wrong until the cows come home.

You can argue (and I think you are, without putting words in your mouth) that he has to dive in this instance and that is the way the game is. I may debate that point with you.

But for me, there is no question that I dived. You acknowledged it youself when you said above thet he "probably did". That is all I'm saying.

[sullanefc]

Do you think that if he had hurdled the challenge, got the ball and created a chance that the ref would have 100% come back and branded a yellow card? Because there are plenty of incidents where refs don't go back and book the player.

My only argument really is that McGrath dived to ensure the yellow card? Would you not agree with that?

There is a wider football argument that, that is the way the game is gone. Players must go down to get the free. And we could argue the morals of whether that is right or wrong until the cows come home.

You can argue (and I think you are, without putting words in your mouth) that he has to dive in this instance and that is the way the game is. I may debate that point with you.

But for me, there is no question that I dived. You acknowledged it youself when you said above thet he "probably did". That is all I'm saying.
Edit above: Replace "I dived" with "he dived".

[pineapple stu]

The ref should have come back and booked him, yep.

And because (a) he wasn't really going to create a chance from inside his own half and (b) because it was a red card which was advantageous to Dundalk of itself, he probably would have stopped play there and then.

Because regardless of what you think, you simply can't lunge into tackles like that - two-footed and studs up. For the reasons why, see most of the 1980s. Gillespie's own reaction afterwards shows that.

I'm not arguing at all that he has to dive here (you really are putting words into my mouth). I'm simply saying it's a red (well, second yellow, which is different) whether or not McGrath dived.

[sullanefc]

The ref should have come back and booked him, yep.
"Should" but refs often don't.

And because (a) he wasn't really going to create a chance from inside his own half and (b) because it was a red card which was advantageous to Dundalk of itself, he probably would have stopped play there and then.
"Probably would have stopped play there and then". That is very debatable. McGrath may very well have got into a very good position in a 3v3 or similar and in such a case the ref would have to leave play go on and see if a chance comes from it.



I'm not arguing at all that he has to dive here (you really are putting words into my mouth). I'm simply saying it's a red (well, second yellow, which is different) whether or not McGrath dived.
That's fine but you are going back to being obtuse about "whether he dived or not". For me it's a clear dive, whether he was right to do so or not.

[CorribsideSteve]

"Should" but refs often don't.

"Probably would have stopped play there and then". That is very debatable. McGrath may very well have got into a very good position in a 3v3 or similar and in such a case the ref would have to leave play go on and see if a chance comes from it.


That's fine but you are going back to being obtuse about "whether he dived or not". For me it's a clear dive, whether he was right to do so or not.

Not sure what game you were watching, but it was a reckless, totally out of control challenge, that another ref may have given a straight red for. Did you want McGrath to stand there and take the walloping? Would you have gone 'Ah, yeah, he clocked him there alright, that's a booking, I suppose' ? You make it sound like Rivaldo vs Turkey at the WC '02. Whether McGrath dived, or decided to do ten handstands the length of the field,is all utterly irrelevant and fades away when a reckless lunging challenge is thrown into the mix. Intent 1 Dive 0. Correct and only call the ref could have made.

B..b..but he dived I tells ya! is not a valid argument.

[pineapple stu]

That's fine but you are going back to being obtuse about "whether he dived or not". For me it's a clear dive, whether he was right to do so or not.
I'm not being remotely obtuse. It was a sending off whether or not McGrath dived. I'm not sure how you're reading my post tbh, but my comment is very clear I think.

[marinobohs]

You don't think McGrath dived?
Probably made more of it and yes Dundalk players do that.
Irrespective of what he did it was a rash tackle and there can be little complaint about the outcome.

[mcgonigle]

Did McGrath dive though?

Umpteenth time asking this simple yes/no question that no one wants to answer.

Dear oh dear, you really should have taken my advise and logged off.

Did he dive? Matter of opinion. Could well be argued that he jumped out of the way of a dangerous tackle. Is he obliged to stay on his feet? He in no way pretended to have been caught so no play acting. You aside the general consensus is McGrath didn't get him sent off and it was a second yellow

[EAFC_rdfl]

Get a room girls!

[Martinho II]

On a totally different point altogether, has anyone any clips of the penalty shootout as when I recorded the highlights on Eir Sport it only recorded till 118th min and then the shortened highlights didnt show the penalty shootout at all!

[oriel]

Did McGrath dive though?

Umpteenth time asking this simple yes/no question that no one wants to answer.

I'm not long back from Derry, watched some of the game and McGrath did the right thing, he didn't dive, he jumped out of the way to potentially avoid a broken leg. The intent on the challenge by the Derry lad was enough for a straight red on its own. Reckless stuff and he knew it too.

You sound almost obsessed by this incident Sullanefc.

[Martinho II]

I'm not long back from Derry, watched some of the game and McGrath did the right thing, he didn't dive, he jumped out of the way to potentially avoid a broken leg. The intent on the challenge by the Derry lad was enough for a straight red on its own. Reckless stuff and he knew it too.

You sound almost obsessed by this incident Sullanefc.

I saw the clip of that incident on Eirsport and Gillespie thoroughly deserved to go.. His lack of discipline was shocking to say the least!

[sullanefc]

I'm not long back from Derry, watched some of the game and McGrath did the right thing, he didn't dive, he jumped out of the way to potentially avoid a broken leg. The intent on the challenge by the Derry lad was enough for a straight red on its own. Reckless stuff and he knew it too.

You sound almost obsessed by this incident Sullanefc.
I'd love to see McGrath try the 100m hurdles. It would be so funny seeing him fall flat on his face at the first hurdle.

Obsessed? No. Fascinated by the refusal by many on here to see the bleedin obvious.

Yes he has to hurdle the challenge, but he dives to the ground to sell it to the referee. This conversation would have ended hours ago if some of ye came out and admitted it. And I'm fascinated as to why ye won't. It's part of the game.

City got a schooling on it against Larnaca a few years ago as I'm sure Dundalk did last year, but there is no doubt in my mind that Dundalk are the best at it in this league. There were plenty of other minor bumps in the Derry game where Dundalk players "won" frees.

I wish City would do it more often being honest. I know Bohs fans were screaming blue murder when we scraped a win im Dalymount earlier in the season. And while I didn't see that game, I was delighted we did a bit of it. But believe me, as much as Bohs fans might think otherwise, we don't do it half enough.

[Nesta99]

I'd love to see McGrath try the 100m hurdles. It would be so funny seeing him fall flat on his face at the first hurdle.

Obsessed? No. Fascinated by the refusal by many on here to see the bleedin obvious.

Yes he has to hurdle the challenge, but he dives to the ground to sell it to the referee. This conversation would have ended hours ago if some of ye came out and admitted it. And I'm fascinated as to why ye won't. It's part of the game.

City got a schooling on it against Larnaca a few years ago as I'm sure Dundalk did last year, but there is no doubt in my mind that Dundalk are the best at it in this league. There were plenty of other minor bumps in the Derry game where Dundalk players "won" frees.

I wish City would do it more often being honest. I know Bohs fans were screaming blue murder when we scraped a win im Dalymount earlier in the season. And while I didn't see that game, I was delighted we did a bit of it. But believe me, as much as Bohs fans might think otherwise, we don't do it half enough.

With the Cork never tackle policy I can understand your general difficulty around all this. There are a lot better example than this one of players from Dundalk or otherwise exaggerating contact to try and influence the ref. In this example McGrath hurdled the wild tackle and landed on his front. He didnt go clutching at a foot or rolled around. He got up straight after and it was the Derry lad that stayed on the ground in a heap knowing that he was getting a card.

On the general soft frees that get given in football these days, it's a frustration at times but it seems to be accepted that when a player feels contact or a hand on the back then its ok to go over and win a free. The continental sides are the experts at it although they call it game management- breaking up play, taking momentum out of the opposition's attacks etc. It is something that Long, for example, has said that his young players need to get cute at it even though he doesnt like it. It is up to referees to toughen up but if it is technically a foul what can they do as while a player can stay on their feet if there is a shove or any contact even if minimal and a player hits the deck then it is often a free. Hard to watch especially when its your own side that's chasing a game and this is eating in to time and momentum.

By and large the principals of the point you are trying to make have validity when a player overreacts to get a fellow pro sent off but your choice of example on ths occasion is a poor one!

[oriel]

there is no doubt in my mind that Dundalk are the best in this league.

Thanks Sully, fixed up a bit of your post.

You've had a long day now, get some rest.

[sullanefc]

With the Cork never tackle policy I can understand your general difficulty around all this. There are a lot better example than this one of players from Dundalk or otherwise exaggerating contact to try and influence the ref. In this example McGrath hurdled the wild tackle and landed on his front. He didnt go clutching at a foot or rolled around. He got up straight after and it was the Derry lad that stayed on the ground in a heap knowing that he was getting a card.

On the general soft frees that get given in football these days, it's a frustration at times but it seems to be accepted that when a player feels contact or a hand on the back then its ok to go over and win a free. The continental sides are the experts at it although they call it game management- breaking up play, taking momentum out of the opposition's attacks etc. It is something that Long, for example, has said that his young players need to get cute at it even though he doesnt like it. It is up to referees to toughen up but if it is technically a foul what can they do as while a player can stay on their feet if there is a shove or any contact even if minimal and a player hits the deck then it is often a free. Hard to watch especially when its your own side that's chasing a game and this is eating in to time and momentum.

By and large the principals of the point you are trying to make have validity when a player overreacts to get a fellow pro sent off but your choice of example on ths occasion is a poor one!
Fair enough post but I disagree with the last paragraph as I think McGrath doesn't need to go to ground in the way that he does. He does it to sell the foul to the referee. He of course could have gone a step further by holding his leg and rolling around a bit but he knew that would be over egging it and everyone knew that the card was coming anyway.

[Nesta99]

He didnt need to sell the foul. He hurdled the challange and went to gound and got up. If he had stayed upright to jump the tackle he probaably would have trod on the player. Ifs, buts, maybes, and maybe he ended up on the floor after both avoiding the tackle and to avoid catching the player with a knee etc when sliding through. You are pusing the wrong example. We could do with some of RH's detailed analyisis to help clear this up.

[sullanefc]

He didnt need to sell the foul. He hurdled the challange and went to gound and got up. If he had stayed upright to jump the tackle he probaably would have trod on the player. Ifs, buts, maybes, and maybe he ended up on the floor after both avoiding the tackle and to avoid catching the player with a knee etc when sliding through. You are pusing the wrong example. We could do with some of RH's detailed analyisis to help clear this up.
I am also dismayed by the lack of intervention from hoops fans on this matter.