Next Ireland manager?

[brine3]

Pretty sure Kilbane had other managers than Kerr at that time.

Ah right, so anything good that happened under Kerr was due to somebody else.

[jbyrne]

Kilbane also said that Kerr improved him as a player. Which is true. Under Mick it was just stick Killer out on the wing. Kerr developed him into Zinedine. Kilbane helped shut down the French midfield in Paris.


kilbanes best years in an Ireland shirt was the 2002 qualifying campaign under Mick.

[backstothewall]

If a player shows no respect, you don't pick them next time. Simple. Anyone who comes in as manager will have to lay down the law straight away. Doesn't matter if he has 50 years top level experience or none.

Anybody able to think of a famous example of a manager taking this sort approach? I think there might have been some real gunslinger of a manager who did this before the 2002 World Cup with one of his players but I can't quite remember the people or country involved. 🤣

[tetsujin1979]

Ah right, so anything good that happened under Kerr was due to somebody else.
No, claiming that he was solely responsible for Kilbane's performances at the time is incredibly disrespectful to the club managers he was working with at the time, and the attitude of the player himself to get the most out of the ability he had

[brine3]

huh. Kilbane says himself in the clip that Kerr made him a better player.

[Diggs246]

huh. Kilbane says himself in the clip that Kerr made him a better player.

Kilbane was a whole hearted player who gave it his all, but he was bang average at best

[DeLorean]

I don't think we're talking petulant teenager and weak teacher scenario here. Of course there'll be respect, but what KK was saying is that Mick will bring an aura with him that Kenny may have to earn rather than immediately deliver.

This.
Along with the fact that he thinks the knives would be out quicker if results aren't good for Kenny straight away.

I think Kilbane has basically echoed the views of a lot of people on here, none of which have been accused of cheerleading for Mick McCarthy.

[OwlsFan]

Kilbane was a whole hearted player who gave it his all, but he was bang average at best

Over 100 caps and 300 or more games in the so-called best league in the world! If that's bang average I'd love to see better than average. Kilbane was a great athletic footballer who could get to the by line, cross a ball better than most and get up and down the field better than most. Not the tippy tappy footballer you might like but a wonderful performer for Ireland.

[brine3]

If you are worried about the knives being out after a couple of bad results, then it probably doesn't make sense to appoint a manager that half the country still hasn't forgiven for Saipan. (Whether you agree with him or not)

[shakermaker1982]

Why the rush? Interview candidates ffs,

[DeLorean]

If you are worried about the knives being out after a couple of bad results, then it probably doesn't make sense to appoint a manager that half the country still hasn't forgiven for Saipan. (Whether you agree with him or not)

Fair point!

[geysir]

It should probably be noted, for those who didn't hear the discussion, that Kilbane was extremely positive overall about the prospect of Kenny managing Ireland. Killer is a positive chap, but isn't his preferred option Mick? and he used the respect line as prop for his choice, a deal breaker of sorts.
I hear dandy Keith Andrews has a more mature :) different take (https://youtu.be/RFV75VK_F18?t=2207) on the respect in the dressing room issue.

[Paddy Garcia]

I like Mick but I can never forget an interview he gave in Saipan - putting the McCarthy/Keane issue aside it still rankles.

He said he had worked hard to get here & he was not going to let anyone (Keane) stop him enjoying it.

I felt that he was there to serve the country - rather than enjoy himself - left feeling the whole approach would have been very different if less self serving.

[TrapAPony]

Big Sam interested in the job. No direct quotes though.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12020/11560291/sam-allardyce-interested-in-vacant-republic-of-ireland-managers-job

[Fixer82]

It’s always been Robbie’s childhood dream to be the Ireland assistant manager

[seanfhear]

If you are worried about the knives being out after a couple of bad results, then it probably doesn't make sense to appoint a manager that half the country still hasn't forgiven for Saipan. (Whether you agree with him or not)If we could forgive Roy Keane then we can forgive Mick McCarthy .

After all Keane was much the greater sinner :dog:

[brine3]

I like Mick but I can never forget an interview he gave in Saipan - putting the McCarthy/Keane issue aside it still rankles.

He said he had worked hard to get here & he was not going to let anyone (Keane) stop him enjoying it.

I felt that he was there to serve the country - rather than enjoy himself - left feeling the whole approach would have been very different if less self serving.

Yes. Maradona was a total langer in 1986. Nobody sent him home though.

Keane and McCarthy were both to blame. But you expect the manager... to manage the situation.

[seanfhear]

Keane was no Maradona .

[Diggs246]

Over 100 caps and 300 or more games in the so-called best league in the world! If that's bang average I'd love to see better than average. Kilbane was a great athletic footballer who could get to the by line, cross a ball better than most and get up and down the field better than most. Not the tippy tappy footballer you might like but a wonderful performer for Ireland.

Bull**** absolute bull****. He had one trick and when he was most needed on the big nights he didn't deliver, because he wasn't good enough

[Olé Olé]

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1012682/

Rte rowing back on previous assertion on McCarthy or are the FAI just looking for Kenny to do the under 21 job?

[Olé Olé]

https://amp.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/mick-mccarthy-in-pole-position-to-become-ireland-manager-again-with-stephen-kenny-still-a-contender-37555436.html?__twitter_impression=true

Indo hedging their bets too.

[Fixer82]

Bull**** absolute bull****. He had one trick and when he was most needed on the big nights he didn't deliver, because he wasn't good enough

The double step over V France in paris?

[liamoo11]

Anybody able to think of a famous example of a manager taking this sort approach? I think there might have been some real gunslinger of a manager who did this before the 2002 World Cup with one of his players but I can't quite remember the people or country involved. 🤣

Slovenia s manager got rid of their playmaker zahovic after the first game of 2002 world cup he was very high profile

[backstothewall]

Slovenia s manager got rid of their playmaker zahovic after the first game of 2002 world cup he was very high profile

That must be it!

[liamoo11]

That must be it!

Cheers. I remember hearing it on the radio going into a hurling match in cork it was a lovely sunny day. I remember thinking we lacked that sort of playmaker type in our squad at the time.

[mark12345]

I like Mick but I can never forget an interview he gave in Saipan - putting the McCarthy/Keane issue aside it still rankles.

He said he had worked hard to get here & he was not going to let anyone (Keane) stop him enjoying it.

I felt that he was there to serve the country - rather than enjoy himself - left feeling the whole approach would have been very different if less self serving.

I like Mick too, but I'll never forget the night in Chicago when I tried to interview him for a newspaper I was working for at the time. Mick couldn't really be bothered talking to me (and to be honest I don't blame him as I have seen some horribly dishonest journalists in my time). I managed to ask him one question which was 'how was he planning to counteract the Mexicans (we were playing Mexico the following day) who were likely to pass us to death'. In a curt reply, Mick assured me in no uncertain terms that Mexico would never pass his Irish team to death. And guess what happened for 70 minutes of the contest the following evening? Ireland got two goals at the end through Jason McAteer and Richie Dunne to escape with an undeserved draw (Dean Kiely played a blinder).

We have enjoyed some good times under Mick, but I believe the time for a completely different approach to the Irish game is now.

Mick would come in and immediately immerse himself in a results orientated situation. He would say he has a remit to get Ireland through to the next major tournament.
But I believe we are way worse off than that. A reckoning has arrived for Irish football and we need to pay the piper. We need to build a system that will sustain young Irish talent and provide better options for them - Stephen Kenny is the way forward for Irish football with either Duffer or Robbie Keane as his assistant.

[Fixer82]

....Jason McAteer and Richie Dunne to escape with an undeserved draw (Dean Kiely played a blinder).
.

I believe it was Dunne and Dominic Foley who scored in that game.
Jason I think only has 3 international goals, 2 of them against Holland to be fair.

[Stuttgart88]

I like Mick too, but I'll never forget the night in Chicago when I tried to interview him for a newspaper I was working for at the time. Mick couldn't really be bothered talking to me (and to be honest I don't blame him as I have seen some horribly dishonest journalists in my time). I managed to ask him one question which was 'how was he planning to counteract the Mexicans (we were playing Mexico the following day) who were likely to pass us to death'. In a curt reply, Mick assured me in no uncertain terms that Mexico would never pass his Irish team to death. And guess what happened for 70 minutes of the contest the following evening? Ireland got two goals at the end through Jason McAteer and Richie Dunne to escape with an undeserved draw (Dean Kiely played a blinder).

We have enjoyed some good times under Mick, but I believe the time for a completely different approach to the Irish game is now.

Mick would come in and immediately immerse himself in a results orientated situation. He would say he has a remit to get Ireland through to the next major tournament.
But I believe we are way worse off than that. A reckoning has arrived for Irish football and we need to pay the piper. We need to build a system that will sustain young Irish talent and provide better options for them - Stephen Kenny is the way forward for Irish football with either Duffer or Robbie Keane as his assistant.Agree with a lot of this. But why Duff / Keane?

I think we are at a crossroads and equally I think qualifying for 2020 is crucial. I also think Mick is committed enough to understand that its about the future too. I'm torn. I see merit in either candidate. I fear that if Kenny were to fail (whatever that means) it'd undermine the case for solving the problem from within and set back the "sinn fein" cause by a decade.

[brine3]

Keane was no Maradona .

Indeed. Much better defensively.

[geysir]

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1012682/

Rte rowing back on previous assertion on McCarthy or are the FAI just looking for Kenny to do the under 21 job?

I think in Kenny's own words, he doesn't see himself as a contender for the top job.
"I don't have PR strategy, I don't have a dream team. I think, ultimately I'm a football coach and I have great respect for all the players at Dundalk and for everyone connected to the club."

[mark12345]

Agree with a lot of this. But why Duff / Keane?

I think we are at a crossroads and equally I think qualifying for 2020 is crucial. I also think Mick is committed enough to understand that its about the future too. I'm torn. I see merit in either candidate. I fear that if Kenny were to fail (whatever that means) it'd undermine the case for solving the problem from within and set back the "sinn fein" cause by a decade.

I see it differently Stutts. This is a watershed moment. Since as far as I can remember back to the very early 70's, we have played a long ball game. There have been good individuals along the way and good groups of individuals (under Jack Charlton and for a time under Mick) but the brand of football we play has never evolved. All of that has to change and if it doesn't change now it never will. I had hoped (even said it in a post about last summer's World Cup) that as England emerge from the dark ages they were stuck in (route one football) we would follow suit. It hasn't happened.

Mick would come in and, understandably, try to qualify us for the 2020 Euros. But the modicum of success we might gain there would, as always, overshadow the real problem which is plaguing Irish football, and that is a lack of fundamentals being taught to our young kids. What current coach in Ireland has the skills to teach to a youngster to turn him into the next Luca Modric for example? I am hearing very good things about the new underage set up in Ireland but is the enthusiasm for a system which is really good and will produce the next Modric, or is it for a system which is only better than what went before it? Stephen Kenny knows the problems in the domestic game. He seems to be able to get the best out of very meager resources. He offers hope for the game at home and Duff or Keane have played at a higher level than most of the Irish squad, so they would have the credibility Kenny might not have. Ultimately the game at home needs a shot in the arm to help the international team. If we had a viable league like that of say Denmark or Sweden, then that would offer so much more to the Irish manager. But for the domestic league to become viable, it will take a change of attitude by the stay away fans in Ireland.

[mark12345]

Agree with a lot of this. But why Duff / Keane?

I think we are at a crossroads and equally I think qualifying for 2020 is crucial. I also think Mick is committed enough to understand that its about the future too. I'm torn. I see merit in either candidate. I fear that if Kenny were to fail (whatever that means) it'd undermine the case for solving the problem from within and set back the "sinn fein" cause by a decade.

I see it differently Stutts. This is a watershed moment. Since as far as I can remember back to the very early 70's, we have played a long ball game. There have been good individuals along the way and good groups of individuals (under Jack Charlton and for a time under Mick) but the brand of football we play has never evolved. All of that has to change and if it doesn't change now it never will. I had hoped (even said it in a post about last summer's World Cup) that as England emerge from the dark ages they were stuck in (route one football) we would follow suit. It hasn't happened.

Mick would come in and, understandably, try to qualify us for the 2020 Euros. But the modicum of success we might gain there would, as always, overshadow the real problem which is plaguing Irish football, and that is a lack of fundamentals being taught to our young kids. What current coach in Ireland has the skills to teach to a youngster to turn him into the next Luca Modric for example? I am hearing very good things about the new underage set up in Ireland but is the enthusiasm for a system which is really good and will produce the next Modric, or is it for a system which is only better than what went before it? Stephen Kenny knows the problems in the domestic game. He seems to be able to get the best out of very meager resources. He offers hope for the game at home and Duff or Keane have played at a higher level than most of the Irish squad, so they would have the credibility Kenny might not have. Ultimately the game at home needs a shot in the arm to help the international team. If we had a viable league like that of say Denmark or Sweden, then that would offer so much more to the Irish manager. But for the domestic league to become viable, it will take a change of attitude by the stay away fans in Ireland.

[mark12345]

Agree with a lot of this. But why Duff / Keane?

I think we are at a crossroads and equally I think qualifying for 2020 is crucial. I also think Mick is committed enough to understand that its about the future too. I'm torn. I see merit in either candidate. I fear that if Kenny were to fail (whatever that means) it'd undermine the case for solving the problem from within and set back the "sinn fein" cause by a decade.

Here is the post from last July wondering if we could follow England's example:

GOOD LUCK TO ENGLAND IN THE WORLD CUP - THEY DESERVE IT.
Probably not going to get too many 'likes' for this post, but it's time to start giving credit where it is due. Finally English football is coming out of the dark ages to play the game the way it is supposed to be played.
Gone, it appears, is the long ball game which has dogged their international team for almost half a century, replaced by a more measured passing and technical version.
The question which now must be asked is will we benefit from this rebirth of the English game? Will our lads take heart from seeing their club mates play the game properly, and get results for their efforts?
Seeing is believing as they say. And, I guess, the $64K question, will Martin O'Neill be the man to usher in a new style of football soccer similar to the way England are currently playing?
Is our future bright, or will it just be more of the same old ####

[DCWA]

Do people think for a second that Kenny would want the U21 job? I can't see the appeal in that at all unless came with a contracted guarantee that he stepped in to the Senior role (and pretty quickly at that).

Perhaps - Mick + Asst until the end of Euro 2020 to meet this assumed short term demand for a "safe pair of hands" and Kenny in the U21 role with a clause that he takes the Senior role at the end of Euro 2020?

You would wonder how any perspective asst would view that right enough, no promotion prospect.

[The Fly]

Former Spain Manager Javier Clemente puts his name in the hat -

https://www.balls.ie/football/javier-clemente-401397

[tetsujin1979]

Former Spain Manager Javier Clemente puts his name in the hat -

https://www.balls.ie/football/javier-clemente-401397
Did balls just make that up? No quotes from Clemente, and there's more about him wanting the job five years ago than anything else

[jbyrne]

Do people think for a second that Kenny would want the U21 job?


pretty sure that they said on OTB last night that Kenny does not want the U21 job

[brine3]

If Mick is the solution then we don't need a new manager, we need a new board.

[DCWA]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/stephen-kenny-says-he-is-absolutely-qualified-to-take-ireland-job-1.3707568?mode=amp

Strong statement from Kenny.

IMO if the FAI sit down with Kenny and Mick over the next few days and are genuinely conducting interviews (I.e aren’t just doing it to be seen to be doing it before appointing Mick) then Stephen Kenny is the next Ireland manager.

[Stuttgart88]

Good on him.

I suspect any "Mick is set to agree terms" leaks to the press are for the FAI to gauge public reaction.

I'm actually quite pro-Mick but over the last 18 hours I think I have swung towards Kenny.

[ifk101]

Yeah he makes a very strong case for himself, and great to hear belief and positivity. Sick of the defeatist attitude.
Shame the article cuts shorts when he goes into detail.
But feel a Kenny appointment needs to be combined with a FAI structural revamp and Delaney leaving. That's why I'd lean to a short term appointment that knows the ropes, with structural reform in the meantime and then a Kenny appointment.

[shakermaker1982]

McCarthy - the past

Kenny - the future

Let’s be bold and try something new. McCarthy will have a short term boost for a couple of games but within 12 months we’ll all be bickering on here about hoofball, not having the players, McCarthy falling out with somebody, Saipan blah blah blah.

We need a coach. We need somebody who is prepared to get us playing football and has a system.

[OwlsFan]

Kenny - the future Let’s be bold and try something new.
We need a coach. We need somebody who is prepared to get us playing football and has a system.

It's not new though. We've had Liam Tuohy and Brian Kerr. Personally, rather than rushing in to either McCarthy or Kenny, they should wait until all the applications have arrived and consider them carefully. What is the rush ?

Only two I would definitely not want: Big Bung Sam and Roy Keane.

[DeLorean]

Killer is a positive chap, but isn't his preferred option Mick? and he used the respect line as prop for his choice, a deal breaker of sorts.
I hear dandy Keith Andrews has a more mature :) different take (https://youtu.be/RFV75VK_F18?t=2207) on the respect in the dressing room issue.

You see, that's the whole misunderstanding and the problem with not actually listening to what people say. Nathan Murphy is very wound up in the first conversation with Kilbane, just look at his body language while he's waiting to jump in with his own points. They end up discussing different things.

It's not a "respect in the dressing room" issue. Kilbane never mentions the word 'respect' when making his points', he only mentions it to correct Murphy's misinterpretation (and clearly yours too).


NM- "Who are the players who wouldn't respect him?"

KK- "I never said they wouldn't respect him. I said if you're looking for an immediate response from a manager when he walks in to the dressing room, or walks into the building, Mick McCarthy would immediately grab you more than Stephen Kenny".


He was speaking in the context of which manager is more likely to get an immediate bounce to help us qualify for Euro 2020. He believes the players would be more familiar with McCarthy, so he's more likely to inspire a quicker reaction. He also thinks McCarthy's experience and reputation would help him if the immediate results aren't great, compared to Kenny, who might be considered out of his depth having never managed at a very high level previously.

He actually indicates that Kenny might be the better longer term option, suggesting that he's better tactically and on the training ground than McCarthy. If he really is a McCarthy 'cheerleader', this is a very strange thing to say, especially seeing as he played under him.

Kilbane believes that it would be safer to go down the "tried and trusted" route considering the importance of qualifying for these Euros. That's open for discussion of course but it's hardly an unreasonable position.


Despite all of this, and Kilbane correcting Murphy's misinterpretation, the latter still opens his discussion with Andrews with this:


NM- "Do you agree with Kilbane that Mick McCarthy walks into that dressing room and instantly gets more respect than Kenny does?"

And the more mature Keith responds by saying-

KA - "Immediately, yes, a little bit".


So Kilbane believes that McCarthy would be better equipped to inspire the players immediately, but Andrews actually believes that he would also get more respect, initially at least.

Andrews' personal experience with Di Matteo, etc. was interesting but irrelevant in the context of what Kilbane was suggesting really. Kilbane himself conceded that it's something Kenny could overcome by impressing the players on the training pitch.

[jbyrne]

McCarthy - the past

Kenny - the future

Let’s be bold and try something new. McCarthy will have a short term boost for a couple of games but within 12 months we’ll all be bickering on here about hoofball, not having the players, McCarthy falling out with somebody, Saipan blah blah blah.

We need a coach. We need somebody who is prepared to get us playing football and has a system.

in my 30+ years following ROI mccarthys teams played the best football. Always got the best out of players and very successfully reinvented stan as a ctre back in the team for example.
he fell out with Roy and nobody else.

it cant be over stated just how important it is that we hit the ground running with our next match being a qualifier in march with no friendlies before that. in that case mick is the best choice. kenny would need a few matches to find his feet and we dont have that luxury this time around

[seanfhear]

in my 30+ years following ROI mccarthys teams played the best football. Always got the best out of players and very successfully reinvented stan as a ctre back in the team for example.
he fell out with Roy and nobody else.

it cant be over stated just how important it is that we hit the ground running with our next match being a qualifier in march with no friendlies before that. in that case mick is the best choice. kenny would need a few matches to find his feet and we dont have that luxury this time around
Its not hard to fall out with Roy . Just ask the present Irish squad .

[passinginterest]

I'd like to see a wider search and a proper interview process than just saying McCarthy or Kenny. I've got reservations about both. McCarthy is certainly the more predictable short term option, everyone knows what he's about, he's not afraid to use young players, he's been through various rebuilding phases, including his first time with the Irish team, and he'll just get on with making the best of what's available to him. His Irish teams were certainly capable of playing some football, maybe the memory is tinged with some rose tinted glasses, but my memory of the 2002 team was that they largely outplayed Spain in the last 16 game.

My worry with Kenny is that people seem to think he's a real training ground manager and an attention to detail guy, and that's not really his thing. One of the problems when he took over from Mick O'Neill at Rovers was partly down to the fact that O'Neill was a real details and analysis and set pieces guy but Kenny isn't, and the squad didn't adapt. There was also respect issues there, some of the senior players under O'Neill who weren't familiar with Kenny, just didn't respect him, there was recordings doing the rounds at the time of players taking the pee out of him. Someone who'd be very familiar told me Kenny wouldn't know how to set up a training drill for an under 12 team, and that was someone with a lot of time for him and respect for him as a manager, but he just isn't a hands on coach. If there was any respect issues early, and the mix of coaches around him wasn't as successful as what he has around him now at Dundalk, then Kenny could be a disaster, that would potentially do long term damage to both the national team and the prospects of the league of Ireland being taken seriously.

[Kingdom]

Cheers. I remember hearing it on the radio going into a hurling match in cork it was a lovely sunny day. I remember thinking we lacked that sort of playmaker type in our squad at the time.

Whooosh, if I'm reading the absolute sarcasm of bttw

[brine3]

Yeah he makes a very strong case for himself, and great to hear belief and positivity. Sick of the defeatist attitude.
Shame the article cuts shorts when he goes into detail.
But feel a Kenny appointment needs to be combined with a FAI structural revamp and Delaney leaving. That's why I'd lean to a short term appointment that knows the ropes, with structural reform in the meantime and then a Kenny appointment.

OK, but a window to structural reform is possible at the moment because things are going so poorly and all our structural weaknesses are exposed.

If we paper over the cracks with an interim manager and limp to Euro 2020, we are looking at another 5-10 years of Delaney.

[tetsujin1979]

There's no way Delaney isn't going to be in charge for the Euro 2020 games in Aviva stadium