Next Ireland manager?

[The Fly]

Did balls just make that up? No quotes from Clemente, and there's more about him wanting the job five years ago than anything else

According to balls.ie...former Spain Manager Javier Clemente puts his name in the hat -

https://www.balls.ie/football/javier-clemente-401397

:p

[IsMiseSean]

From the names be thrown around at the moment, I'd favour Mick - but there is no rush in hiring someone.

As said above - wait until all the CVs come in and call the best candidates back for interviews. We don't need someone in place for the draw.
I'd aim to have a manager in place by Christmas or early January at the latest.

[brine3]

in my 30+ years following ROI mccarthys teams played the best football. Always got the best out of players and very successfully reinvented stan as a ctre back in the team for example.
he fell out with Roy and nobody else.

Jack was was past it and his tactics were out of date. When we appointed Mick we did go forward a bit tactically. We took a punt on a 37 year old with very little management experience. Mick wasn't a 'safe pair of hands' at the time either. But the FAI were rewarded for thinking forwardly at the time.

Maybe they should also think forwardly this time around...

[jbyrne]

Jack was was past it and his tactics were out of date. When we appointed Mick we did go forward a bit tactically. We took a punt on a 37 year old with very little management experience. Mick wasn't a 'safe pair of hands' at the time either. But the FAI were rewarded for thinking forwardly at the time.

Maybe they should also think forwardly this time around...

jack wasnt past it and his tactics were different but not out of date. i read during the week that he studied the 86 WC closely to establish a way to play and compete with the bigger teams and came up with his tactics accordingly. you cant argue that a manager that qualified for 2 wcs and a euros within a 6 year period implemented out of date tactics. should we be tactically fashionable at the expense of success??

[geysir]

You see, that's the whole misunderstanding and the problem with not actually listening to what people say. Nathan Murphy is very wound up in the first conversation with Kilbane, just look at his body language while he's waiting to jump in with his own points. They end up discussing different things.

It's not a "respect in the dressing room" issue. Kilbane never mentions the word 'respect' when making his points', he only mentions it to correct Murphy's misinterpretation (and clearly yours too).


NM- "Who are the players who wouldn't respect him?"

KK- "I never said they wouldn't respect him. I said if you're looking for an immediate response from a manager when he walks in to the dressing room, or walks into the building, Mick McCarthy would immediately grab you more than Stephen Kenny".


He was speaking in the context of which manager is more likely to get an immediate bounce to help us qualify for Euro 2020. He believes the players would be more familiar with McCarthy, so he's more likely to inspire a quicker reaction. He also thinks McCarthy's experience and reputation would help him if the immediate results aren't great, compared to Kenny, who might be considered out of his depth having never managed at a very high level previously.

He actually indicates that Kenny might be the better longer term option, suggesting that he's better tactically and on the training ground than McCarthy. If he really is a McCarthy 'cheerleader', this is a very strange thing to say, especially seeing as he played under him.

Kilbane believes that it would be safer to go down the "tried and trusted" route considering the importance of qualifying for these Euros. That's open for discussion of course but it's hardly an unreasonable position.


Despite all of this, and Kilbane correcting Murphy's misinterpretation, the latter still opens his discussion with Andrews with this:


NM- "Do you agree with Kilbane that Mick McCarthy walks into that dressing room and instantly gets more respect than Kenny does?"

And the more mature Keith responds by saying-

KA - "Immediately, yes, a little bit".


So Kilbane believes that McCarthy would be better equipped to inspire the players immediately, but Andrews actually believes that he would also get more respect, initially at least.

Andrews' personal experience with Di Matteo, etc. was interesting but irrelevant in the context of what Kilbane was suggesting really. Kilbane himself conceded that it's something Kenny could overcome by impressing the players on the training pitch.

You have to give links to the Kilbane interview Del, because I listened to a hyper excited Killer on the radio and he named names of players who would not respect Kenny. I think he named 2 or 3. I clearly got the impression that he attached import to this.

You have chopped (not snipped) Keith's explanation, rendering the context meaningless.
Keith Andrews in answer (https://youtu.be/RFV75VK_F18?t=2207) to the respect question, immediately toned down the import of the respect affect to a matter of no importance at all. He attached no importance to that immediate little first impression, that McCarthy might have over Kenny. He said Kenny would come in at a lesser level initially but quickly he can go up those few rungs of the ladder, quickly making up any perceived gap.

That's the pertinent point, because it was assumed here by some that this was a negative on Kenny's credentials and that it was a factor in Mick's favour. Afaiac, it has about as much value as the color of a tie, 3 or 4 seconds.

[Kingdom]

in my 30+ years following ROI mccarthys teams played the best football. Always got the best out of players and very successfully reinvented stan as a ctre back in the team for example.
he fell out with Roy and nobody else.

it cant be over stated just how important it is that we hit the ground running with our next match being a qualifier in march with no friendlies before that. in that case mick is the best choice. kenny would need a few matches to find his feet and we dont have that luxury this time around

You've stated this Stan = great centre-back line a few times now. What examples of great performances from centre-back where Stan stemmed the tide time and again, in performances that equate to greatness. Seriously, when?

I'll give my response again: it wasn't great, it was a bad move. And the examples I will cite are as follows: Netherlands home where he was so poor it wasn't funny; Cameroon ; Germany; Spain. Each time Staunton wasn't average, he was poor. And it's not a grudge, it's not vengeance, because he was a magnificent left midfielder for us and a damn good left-back.
But the centre-back role did not suit him.

[osarusan]

Decent comments from Kenny in that article.

No need for a speedy and possibly kneejerk appointment though. I hope the FAI do their research and look at what they feel the squad needs, what they think the squad is realistically capable of in terms of styles of play and results, and look for a manager with a track record of achieving those things in recent years, in particular, a track record of developing tactics and styles of play that best utilise the resources at their disposal.

I honestly wonder if the FAI are putting together criteria like that in their search for a manager.


In a way, the imminent hosting of games in Euro 2020 might be a bit of a spanner in the works to anything longer term.

[Kingdom]

I'd like to see a wider search and a proper interview process than just saying McCarthy or Kenny. I've got reservations about both. McCarthy is certainly the more predictable short term option, everyone knows what he's about, he's not afraid to use young players, he's been through various rebuilding phases, including his first time with the Irish team, and he'll just get on with making the best of what's available to him. His Irish teams were certainly capable of playing some football, maybe the memory is tinged with some rose tinted glasses, but my memory of the 2002 team was that they largely outplayed Spain in the last 16 game.

My worry with Kenny is that people seem to think he's a real training ground manager and an attention to detail guy, and that's not really his thing. One of the problems when he took over from Mick O'Neill at Rovers was partly down to the fact that O'Neill was a real details and analysis and set pieces guy but Kenny isn't, and the squad didn't adapt. There was also respect issues there, some of the senior players under O'Neill who weren't familiar with Kenny, just didn't respect him, there was recordings doing the rounds at the time of players taking the pee out of him. Someone who'd be very familiar told me Kenny wouldn't know how to set up a training drill for an under 12 team, and that was someone with a lot of time for him and respect for him as a manager, but he just isn't a hands on coach. If there was any respect issues early, and the mix of coaches around him wasn't as successful as what he has around him now at Dundalk, then Kenny could be a disaster, that would potentially do long term damage to both the national team and the prospects of the league of Ireland being taken seriously.

There's no chance that they just didn't like Kenny, and didn't like/appreciate the different voice from an equally successful manager to the one they'd had themselves?
Who did Kenny have as his assistants at Rovers? Was it not Vinny Perth?

[DeLorean]

You have to give links to the Kilbane interview Del, because I listened to a hyper excited Killer on the radio and he named names of players who would not respect Kenny. I think he named 2 or 3. I clearly got the impression that he attached import to this.

It's linked a couple of pages back. Kilbane named players who he he felt would either know very little about Kenny or not know him at all. He never said they wouldn't respect him, he actually pointed out that he never said this. So yes, I suggest you go look. :)

[brine3]

jack wasnt past it and his tactics were different but not out of date. i read during the week that he studied the 86 WC closely to establish a way to play and compete with the bigger teams and came up with his tactics accordingly. you cant argue that a manager that qualified for 2 wcs and a euros within a 6 year period implemented out of date tactics. should we be tactically fashionable at the expense of success??

I should emphasise that what I meant to say was that his tactics were out of date in 1995 (and had already been exposed by the Dutch and Mexicans in 1994).

In 1990 he had the ideal tactics for that particular tournament. No doubt about it.

He knew when it was time to move on though.

[jbyrne]

You've stated this Stan = great centre-back line a few times now

once actually as an example of how McCarthy got the best out of his squad.




I'll give my response again: it wasn't great, it was a bad move. And the examples I will cite are as follows: Netherlands home where he was so poor it wasn't funny; Cameroon ; Germany; Spain. Each time Staunton wasn't average, he was poor. And it's not a grudge, it's not vengeance, because he was a magnificent left midfielder for us and a damn good left-back.
But the centre-back role did not suit him.

in the 3 matches you refer to 1-0 (w), 1-1 and 1-1. Thats 2 goals conceded against 3 of the best teams around at the time. Stan cant have been that bad at ctre half so.
think he may have been man of the match against germany but need to check that one out

edit:
3 goals in 4 matches. not 2 in 3 as stated

[IsMiseSean]

think he may have been man of the match against germany but need to check that one out

Yeah he was. Noticed this on the news Wednesday evening when they were showing Robbie's goal. It was a graphic at the top of the screen as the ball was being pumped down field.

[Kingdom]

JB, I'm fair on here to all, and I don't hold grudges or the like. I concede a point if I'm wrong or out of order. I should have wrote "twice" instead of "a few times".

Do you honestly think that Steve Staunton played well for Ireland against Netherlands, Cameroon and Spain, regardless of the number of goals we conceded? It's a simple question.
I do not remember Staunton playing well against Germany. But we were on the front foot and played well as a team, so I could be wrong.

[brine3]

At the time I remember feeling that we should have been playing Cunningham at centre back, and John O'Shea (who wasn't in the squad, madness) at left back.

Harte and Stan were both a bit of a liability at the World Cup. (Have a look at the goals we conceded, the opponents had identified the Harte/Stan weak spot).

Mick gave a lot of players a chance after Jack, but once he had established his team he was very stubborn about introducing new players.

[TrapAPony]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/stephen-kenny-says-he-is-absolutely-qualified-to-take-ireland-job-1.3707568?mode=amp

Strong statement from Kenny.

IMO if the FAI sit down with Kenny and Mick over the next few days and are genuinely conducting interviews (I.e aren’t just doing it to be seen to be doing it before appointing Mick) then Stephen Kenny is the next Ireland manager.

Mick (or even Sam Allardyce) and Kenny's credentials are light years apart. Kenny would be a complete risk appointment, has generally only managed at LOI level while Mick knows International football, knows what qualifiers are about and has a good record in the English leagues. They are poles apart in my opinion. Delaney will easily go for Mick in a toss up between the two but will give Kenny an interview to pass him.

[shakermaker1982]

It's not new though. We've had Liam Tuohy and Brian Kerr. Personally, rather than rushing in to either McCarthy or Kenny, they should wait until all the applications have arrived and consider them carefully. What is the rush ?

Only two I would definitely not want: Big Bung Sam and Roy Keane.

Brian Kerr didn’t do the coaching when in charge of the senior team it was Chris Hughton. This time I think we should go for a more hands on manager, Kerr loved doing video analysis (boring players to death if I recall correctly? Was it Dunne who said that?) but that is not the same as coaching and working on the training ground. Liam a tad before my time. We need to teach these players shape, passing and have a plan. That was the argument used against MO’N so I want to go the other direction.

McCarthy will do the smoozing and be seen & interviewed across the country but will still be relying on Conner to do the training. We’ve had that countless times. A ‘name’. The quick win.

If Hughton was available & interested I’d be happy with him but not to be.

I agree Big Sam should not be considered. His style of football won’t be an easy watch and won’t take long for the complaints to kick in.

Keane is finished. No chance he’ll be considered.

[Diggs246]

Mick (or even Sam Allardyce) and Kenny's credentials are light years apart. Kenny would be a complete risk appointment, has generally only managed at LOI level while Mick knows International football, knows what qualifiers are about and has a good record in the English leagues. They are poles apart in my opinion. Delaney will easily go for Mick in a toss up between the two but will give Kenny an interview to pass him.

Totally in agreement
McCarthy's management career highlights :
Millwall got to the playoffs
Ireland last 16 of World cup
Wolves: Promoted to Premier league
Sunderland: Promoted to Premier league

Kenny:
Highly successful within the League of Ireland but not beyond that

[shakermaker1982]

MO’N had a cracking CV but that didn’t work out too well...

[Stuttgart88]

It's linked a couple of pages back. Kilbane named players who he he felt would either know very little about Kenny or not know him at all. He never said they wouldn't respect him, he actually pointed out that he never said this. So yes, I suggest you go look. :)I think he mentioned O'Dowda and Arter, saying that as English-born and raised they'd know little about Kenny other than what they might know anecdotally or from a distance. I heard the whole show and what I took from it was that he was really referring to the aura Mick would bring, an immediate presence, in contrast to Kenny who might take time to make an impression. It wasn't explicit, but implicitly clear in my opinion. He definitely wasn't referring to respect in the sense that the players would respect one but not respect another. The presenters argued that this point was overblown and that anyone who didn't respect Kenny can take a hike, even though "respect" wasn't really the issue. KK was just drawing on his experience of an international dressing room. With over 100 caps you'd think he knows what he's talking about.

[brine3]

Totally in agreement
McCarthy's management career highlights :
Millwall got to the playoffs
Ireland last 16 of World cup
Wolves: Promoted to Premier league
Sunderland: Promoted to Premier league

Kenny:
Highly successful within the League of Ireland but not beyond that

Hold on, if Mick gets an extra line for every one of his achievements in England then you should give Kenny an extra line for every one of his achievements in Ireland.

[jbyrne]

MO’N had a cracking CV but that didn’t work out too well...

except for....

first away qualifying wins against direct opposition since 1987.... twice
home win against world champions
away draw against world champions
play-off win against bosnia
euros last 16
win v italy
qualifying for wc play offs from 4th seeding

at the time did you think any of the above achievements constituted not working "out too well"??
cant just be air brushed out despite the poor way it all ended for MON.....

[Stuttgart88]

Totally in agreement
McCarthy's management career highlights :
Millwall got to the playoffs
Ireland last 16 of World cup
Wolves: Promoted to Premier league
Sunderland: Promoted to Premier league

Kenny:
Highly successful within the League of Ireland but not beyond that...and a short spell of success abroad with a League of Ireland club. Just to be fair.

I think the above are fair points. At the same time I think Kenny represents the "post-2008" brand of modern football manager.

I love Mick, loved his previous tenure and think he'd be good. I had the fortune to meet him on a street corner in central London in 2011 and he was a gent. We reminisced about him taking the team to Andorra because we were away to Andorra under Trap that night. He was so open and friendly.

But over the last day or so I've leant towards Kenny. Riskier for sure, but I think he could get the team playing beyond the sum of its parts again.

I wonder would it be worthwhile waiting on the draw? Tough draw, go with Mick. Easier draw, go with Kenny - a bit more margin for error.

[Diggs246]

Hold on, if Mick gets an extra line for every one of his achievements in England then you should give Kenny an extra line for every one of his achievements in Ireland.

Fair enough, that wasn't fair of me, but my point is Micks achievements far out way Kenny's.

[TrapAPony]

Hold on, if Mick gets an extra line for every one of his achievements in England then you should give Kenny an extra line for every one of his achievements in Ireland.


Kenny has done well at domestic level but managing in the LOI and managing at International level or in the Premiership/Championship are world's apart. Kenny needs to go the direction of Paul Cook first IMO.

[shakermaker1982]

except for....

first away qualifying wins against direct opposition since 1987.... twice
home win against world champions
away draw against world champions
play-off win against bosnia
euros last 16
win v italy
qualifying for wc play offs from 4th seeding

at the time did you think any of the above achievements constituted not working "out too well"??
cant just be air brushed out despite the poor way it all ended for MON.....

I thought MO’N did a cracking job up until the Denmark game.

However it didn’t stop him getting ridiculed and hunted like a dog on forums, social media & radio phone in shows. Most people now (unfortunately) would say he was a bluffer & just gave a 10 minute team talk before kick off. That’s obviously BS but Andrews & co made sure the message got out there.

My initial point - CV’s can be spun anyway you want. You could flag McCarthy getting sacked & chased out by fans of most of the clubs he managed.

[Diggs246]

I thought MO’N did a cracking job up until the Denmark game.

However it didn’t stop him getting ridiculed and hunted like a dog on forums, social media & radio phone in shows. Most people now (unfortunately) would say he was a bluffer & just gave a 10 minute team talk before kick off. That’s obviously BS but Andrews & co made sure the message got out there.

My initial point - CV’s can be spun anyway you want. You could flag McCarthy getting sacked & chased out by fans of most of the clubs he managed.

In 26 years of Management he has only been sacked twice

[Fixer82]

There’s no mad rush in getting a new manager but good God don’t let it drag out like it did after Stan got sacked.

[shakermaker1982]

In 26 years of Management he has only been sacked twice

The Ipswich job was as good as a sacking & he resigned just before getting sacked for Ireland!! He didn’t leave both jobs smelling of roses. He was at the end of the road.

[brine3]

Back in 2002, I was very much pro-Keane and anti-Mick. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, I realise that they were just two personalities who really don't get on. Roy is a good guy, Mick is a nice guy. So I have nothing against Mick any more and appreciate everything he gave for the cause as player and manager. I just don't think we should be overselling him as a management genius of some kind. He has his shortcomings. He is a very similar manager to Martin O'Neill. He could well come in and motivate the players and get them to qualify. But we have to ask ourselves what direction we want to go in. Do we want the quick fix or do we risk doing something new? Usually we go for the quick fix, but we might be back asking the same questions in four years from now if we do that again.

[Diggs246]

The Ipswich job was as good as a sacking & he resigned just before getting sacked for Ireland!! He didn’t leave both jobs smelling of roses. He was at the end of the road.

He resigned from both without a penny payout and both his replacements for Ireland and Ipswich did a poorer job

[TrapAPony]

The Ipswich job was as good as a sacking & he resigned just before getting sacked for Ireland!! He didn’t leave both jobs smelling of roses. He was at the end of the road.

How many times has Kenny been sacked at a poorer level? Bohs, Dunfermline & Shamrock Rovers anyway...

[brine3]

He resigned from both without a penny payout and both his replacements for Ireland and Ipswich did a poorer job

Now, in fairness, Mick got zero points from the first two games in the 2004 qualifiers and had failed to manage our star player. Left his successor with quite a mess on his hands.

[Diggs246]

Now, in fairness, Mick got zero points from the first two games in the 2004 qualifiers and had failed to manage our star player. Left his successor with quite a mess on his hands.

Would you say now even with hindsight, that in fact our "star player" was a ****ing disruptive di*khead, who went on to fall out with everyone is his football life

[Park_Lane]

Kenny believes in Irish football and Irish Footballers that to me seals it.
All the rest will be "working with what they have" "Making the best of it" etc.
We need some one who has the interests of Irish football at heart, for now and the future. Give it to Kenny and get the U21 boss reporting in to him.

[Fixer82]

Would you say now even with hindsight, that in fact our "star player" was a ****ing disruptive di*khead, who went on to fall out with everyone is his football life

Keane is a spiky character, difficult to manage. Was also a ‘once in a generation’ midfielder for us.

Anyway, there’s none of them in our squad now so it won’t be an issue.

[Olé Olé]

Good point. He's casting off the "we don't have the players" argument made by the last two managers before he has a chance to make it. Have to admire that.

[tetsujin1979]

Would you say now even with hindsight, that in fact our "star player" was a ****ing disruptive di*khead, who went on to fall out with everyone is his football life

Diggs, watch the language

[Stuttgart88]

Now, in fairness, Mick got zero points from the first two games in the 2004 qualifiers and had failed to manage our star player. Left his successor with quite a mess on his hands.
Yeah, one was a late sucker punch at home to Switzerland as we chased a valuable home win, probably too aggressively.

Before the Russia game we played Finland away and won 3-0 with the likes of Graham Barrett and Jim Goodwin in the side. Hardly the work of a man not looking to the future (though I'm not saying you said that).

[Stuttgart88]

Kenny believes in Irish football and Irish Footballers that to me seals it.
All the rest will be "working with what they have" "Making the best of it" etc.
We need some one who has the interests of Irish football at heart, for now and the future. Give it to Kenny and get the U21 boss reporting in to him.Kenny definitely believes in Irish footballers and yes, thats what has me leaning towards him now. But is there any evidence McCarthy doesn't believe in Irish footballers? MON was outrageous in his lack of belief in his available players, even if they win EPL Player of the Month!

[TrapAPony]

Mick is getting the job.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/1123/1012980-mick-mccarthy-formally-offered-ireland-job-report/

[bennocelt]

At 47 years of age, he has 20 years of a managerial career behind him.

.

Thats really amazing when u think of it.

Im happy its not S Kenny, as a LOI fan I am really looking forward to seeing how he gets on next season in the CL

[brine3]

Would you say now even with hindsight, that in fact our "star player" was a ****ing disruptive di*khead, who went on to fall out with everyone is his football life

He also maneged to fall out with Denis Irwin.

[Deckydee]

Almost official > https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/mick-mccarthy-to-be-unveiled-as-irelands-new-manager-37559794.html

[Diggs246]

He also maneged to fall out with Denis Irwin.

Ah yes Denis Irwin another patriot, who on the advice of Alex Ferguson, decided to wait to see what our WC qualifying draw was to decide whether to retire from Ireland or not. We got Portugal and Holland and then he retires..... we then go on to qualify and he then makes himself available if needed

[jbyrne]

The Ipswich job was as good as a sacking & he resigned just before getting sacked for Ireland!! He didn’t leave both jobs smelling of roses. He was at the end of the road.


how are ipswich doing this season without mick?
will be lucky to stay up.

id say most sane ipswich fans would have him back in a heartbeat now

[jbyrne]

micks on goals on sunday sky sports this sun i believe

[Bungle]

I like Mick and feel this was the best possible appointment. He knows the players, was a legend as a player and did well for us as a manager. He's good with young players as well which will be important in the coming years. Plays good football as well.

I like Stephen Kenny as a man and as a manager, but i just feel that he needs a platform before the national team. A bit like cook at wigan who has done well here and england.

[brine3]

Mick was 37 and had won sweet all as a manager when he was appointed. But he was the new change that was needed.

Now he's getting the job because he's experienced.

Always seems to work out for him huh

[tetsujin1979]

Ah yes Denis Irwin another patriot, who on the advice of Alex Ferguson, decided to wait to see what our WC qualifying draw was to decide whether to retire from Ireland or not. We got Portugal and Holland and then he retires..... we then go on to qualify and he then makes himself available if needed
Any evidence for that?

[ger121]

Totally in agreement
McCarthy's management career highlights :
Millwall got to the playoffs
Ireland last 16 of World cup
Wolves: Promoted to Premier league
Sunderland: Promoted to Premier league

Kenny:
Highly successful within the League of Ireland but not beyond that

What had Mick achieved as a Manager before Ireland? If you were to judge him based on that criteria, he had achieved less than Kenny, was less experienced and over 10 years younger but was still good enough to get the Irish job.