Brexit - The End of the United Kingdom?

[dahamsta]

Looks like they pulled her out of her coffin for that second photo.

[BonnieShels]

I'll send them some nails so that she never comes out.

I actually can't get over the sheer arrogance. I mean, i get that the Tories are arrogant and am kinda used to the concept given their history, but I'm flabbergasted that they just keep moving the goalposts on their arrogance.

David Davis on QT last night talking about immigration is a case in point.

Actually, is it arrogance if you're completely devoid of ability, intelligence and you're all at sea?

[DannyInvincible]

Nicola Sturgeon now has a mandate from the Scottish parliament to push for indyref2 as MSPs have just voted to back a second referendum by 69 votes to 59: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39422747

[BonnieShels]

Shocked that the BBC didn't state that she "narrowly" won.

In other news, the Tories have indicated that they are going to block the vote until the 2020s.

Are they seriously that inept?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/live/2017/mar/28/scottish-parliament-debate-independence-refeerendum-indyref2-sturgeon-mayor-urges-eu-citizens-to-press-for-brexit-deal-that-does-not-punish-uk-politics-live

---


ut Mundell has told the BBC that the government does not see the 18-month timetable (the expected timetable for the talks - because up to six months may ne needed for ratification at the end of the process) as significant.

Instead, he implied that the government would not talk to the Scottish government about a referendum until, not just Brexit, but until the transitional period was over too. That would put back a referendum until into the 2020s.



Here's the video. Mundell is a cretin.

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/846756476521734144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpoliti cs%2Fscottish-independence-blog%2Flive%2F2017%2Fmar%2F28%2Fscottish-parliament-debate-independence-refeerendum-indyref2-sturgeon-mayor-urges-eu-citizens-to-press-for-brexit-deal-that-does-not-punish-uk-politics-live%3Fpage%3Dwith%253Ablock-58da8c9ee4b01ea2330bcee3


This is a tweet that was below Mundell's. Classic.


Michael Brogan‏ @Michael45788700 34 minutes ago
@CameronMcNeish @DavidMundellDCT @WingsScotland [B]He couldn't pour water out of a boot if the instructions were on the sole (https://twitter.com/Michael45788700/status/846768756105920515)

https://twitter.com/Michael45788700/status/846768756105920515

[BonnieShels]

Guardian front page on January 1973 when the UK (as well as Ireland and Denmark) joined the EEC:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8E8kIYXQAEARPa.jpg

Here's the original tweet:

https://twitter.com/dansabbagh/status/847025130198970368

Interesting piece at the bottom left as Martin McGuinness was arrested the day before by the Gardaí in Letterkenny.

[BonnieShels]

Here's the text referring to Ireland:


v. In particular, we must pay attention to the UK's unique relationship with the Republic of Ireland and the importance of the peace process in Northern Ireland. The Republic of Ireland is the only EU member state with a land border with the United Kingdom. We want to avoid a return to a hard border between our two countries, to be able to maintain the Common Travel Area between us, and to make sure that the UK's withdrawal from the EU does not harm the Republic of Ireland. We also have an important responsibility to make sure that nothing is done to jeopardise the peace process in Northern Ireland, and to continue to uphold the Belfast Agreement.

http://news.sky.com/story/britains-article-50-letter-the-full-text-10817451

[DannyInvincible]

It sounds like Germany is going to make Brexit very difficult for the UK: http://uk.businessinsider.com/germanys-approach-to-britains-brexit-article-50-negotiations-2017-3


All signs are pointing towards Germany making Brexit talks difficult for Britain, just as it is about to trigger Article 50 and thereby starting the formal two-year negotiation process for the UK leaving the European Union.

According to a range of German officials cited by the Financial Times (https://www.ft.com/content/4855afce-10a4-11e7-b030-768954394623), Britain should expect:


A deal that it probably will not be happy with.
A deal less favourable than staying in the EU.
The UK will have to pay the entire £50 billion (€57.3 billion) Brexit divorce bill or face being sued.

Germany's finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble in Chancellor Angela Merkel’s close ally and said "we have no interest in punishing the UK, but we also have no interest in putting European integration in danger over the UK. That’s why our priority must be, with a heavy heart, to keep the rest of Europe — without the UK — as close together as possible."

[DannyInvincible]

And the EU has also, on behalf of member state Spain, agreed to make accord between the UK and Spain on the status of Gibraltar a condition of any overall Brexit deal for Britain: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39453535


A draft document on the EU's Brexit strategy said no agreement on the EU's future relationship with the UK would apply to Gibraltar without the consent of Spain, giving it a potential veto.

...

In its draft Brexit negotiating guidelines (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/31_03_17_eu_draft_guidelines.pdf), the European Council identified future arrangements for Gibraltar as one of its 26 core principles.

It wrote: "After the UK leaves the union, no agreement between the EU and the UK may apply to the territory of Gibraltar without agreement between Spain and the UK."

Brussels officials were quoted by the Guardian as saying the EU was standing up for its members interests.

"That means Spain now," a senior EU official told the newspaper (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/31/future-of-gibraltar-at-stake-in-brexit-negotiations).

"Any extension of the deal [after withdrawal] to Gibraltar... will require the support of Spain. [The text] recognises that there are two parties to this dispute."

This really is fast becoming a nightmare for the UK.

https://media.tenor.co/images/54451401d52c0dd2fe9ee5752857d53c/tenor.gif

[BonnieShels]

Guy Verhofstadt more or less guarantees no hard border:


Ireland got prominent mention in the Guy Verhofstadt press conference after the vote and a promise that there will be no hard border will be a boon to border businesses desperately worried about their future.

Asked by an RTE reporter how difficult it would be to achieve the desire for no border controls, Verhofstadt said: “It will be very difficult and it will be very high on the priority list: no hard border, respect in all its aspects of the Good Friday agreement.”

Notably he added: “It is the EU 27 who have to taken on board the [interests] of the Irish Republic, binding the Dublin vote closer to Brussels.”

In a considerable coup for Ireland, the border issue is at the top of the priority list.

The European parliament president Antonio Tajani also mentioned its predicament saying that the Good Friday Agreement, like the EU four freedoms, must not be touched.

He was also asked whether action would be taken against Nigel Farage for his comment in the debate about the EU acting like the mafia, or gangsters. (See 9.02am.)

A slightly contemptuous looking Tajani said Farage needed to show respect to democratic structures. “We don’t have here mafia [or] gangsters,” he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/apr/05/nigel-farage-tells-meps-eu-acting-like-the-mafia-and-making-impossible-brexit-demands-politics-live

[DannyInvincible]

Guy Verhofstadt more or less guarantees no hard border:



https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/apr/05/nigel-farage-tells-meps-eu-acting-like-the-mafia-and-making-impossible-brexit-demands-politics-live

Great news. I assume this is the EU acknowledging the special circumstances of the north and pretty much saying that special status is a reality/possibility, as far as the EU is concerned. If the UK government similarly has no interest in imposing a hard border in Ireland - as the likes of Theresa May and David Davis have been claiming - then they'll presumably place the effective UK-EU border around Britain.

[backstothewall]

It can't be any other way. If 21,000 British soldiers and 13,000 RUC couldn't secure the border a couple of dozen customs officers armed with no more than clipboards and biros aren't going to be able to.

[DannyInvincible]

'Ireland on course to issue one million passports in wake of Brexit': http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-on-course-to-issue-one-million-passports-in-wake-of-brexit-1.3050540


...

This follows the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Charlie Flanagan confirming that 250,000 applications have been received for the first quarter of this year - a 26 per cent increase on the same period for last year.

The number of Irish passport applications from those born in Great Britain between January and the end of March increased by 69 per cent to 23,181 on the corresponding period last year, almost half the 48,741 who applied for Irish passport for the entire of 2016.

Similarly, applications for Irish passports from those born in Northern Ireland increased by 68 per cent going from 16,581 in the first quarter of last year to 27,898 in the same period of 2017.

[backstothewall]

It's a little known fact that Mrs Backstothewall is one of them'uns. Our kids have both British and Irish passports as a result. The British ones are due to be renewed but she's decided not to bother, and she's getting an Irish one before we go away next.

[Eminence Grise]

May to put call for June 8 general election before Commons

http://www.rte.ie/news/world/2017/0418/868377-uk-politics/

Interesting times ahead ... can see this being played as Referendum #2 in Scotland and NI.

[dahamsta]

I know Corbyn has agreed to support this, but the party members would be absolutely insane to.

[BonnieShels]

Well they did.

Labour have had so many opportunities to hurt the Tories with Brexit and they have failed miserably. I kinda want them to die at this stage. Useless cretins. Corbyn is a mug.

[peadar1987]

I just want Scotland gone from this whole mess. Sure it abandons England to the right-wingers and racists, but England have had plenty of chances to fix things and just keep lurching further and further towards a permanent Thatcherian dystopia. Any progressive English people who want out of Toryland will be more than welcome north of the border.

[DannyInvincible]

A vivid piece, this, with insight into past, present and possible future Irish border-life.

'Will Brexit reopen old wounds with a new hard border in Northern Ireland?': https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/23/northern-ireland-brexit-border-old-wounds-troubles


Depending on who you speak to, then, the ramifications of a hard Brexit for Northern Ireland seem at best deeply worrying and at worst cataclysmic. [Eamonn] McCann and [George] Knight [a Protestant historian from Clones], from their differing perspectives, both intimated that they believe Brexit will probably lead to the breakup of the UK. It is a view shared by the cautious, thoughtful [Fintan] O’Toole: “The United Kingdom has proved itself to be a very contingent construct, but I am not sure it will survive Brexit,” he says. He proposes a special bilateral deal that could be worked out for Northern Ireland, which echoes what he calls “the constructive ambiguities of the Belfast agreement concerning the uniqueness and complexity of the state”. It is difficult to see that kind of flexibility being formulated by what [Roy] Foster calls “the awful Daily Mail government at Westminster”.

What future, then, for an island that, pending the June general election result, is currently united north and south in its opposition to Brexit? “What we may see,” says McCann, “is that the question of a unified Ireland is posed in an unprecedented context: not as republican versus unionist, but in terms of alignment with Europe.” It is one of the ironies of Brexit that the Irish border may yet be consigned to history by the very people who insist that Northern Ireland is as British as Finchley. Stranger things have happened of late.

[DannyInvincible]

All very amusing: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39770328


According to an account in Frankfurter Allgemeine (http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/brexit/eu-kommission-skeptisch-vor-brexit-verhandlungen-14993673.html), Mr Juncker said: "I leave Downing Street 10 times more sceptical than I was before." After the dinner, held last Wednesday, the UK government called it a "constructive, useful working dinner". But the German newspaper report suggests Mr Juncker said there would be no trade deal between the UK and the rest of the EU if the UK failed to pay the "divorce" bill which it is expected to be asked for.

It was the day after the meeting that Mr Juncker reportedly told German chancellor Angela Merkel that Mrs May was "deluding herself" and "living in another galaxy" when it came to the issue of Brexit talks.

Clearly, the Tories are desperately trying to paint for the British people a very different and misleading picture from what is really going on behind the scenes. I hope the British electorate can see through this and duly punish them in the upcoming election. It's hard to see anything other than a Tory victory at the minute, unfortunately, although Labour do appear to be closing the gap, according the latest polls: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-gain-tory-victory-theresa-may-general-election-8-june-yougov-opinium-polls-a7709961.html


Labour has gained in at least three polls just weeks before the general election, slashing the Tories' lead by as much as 10 points. Jeremy Corbyn’s party is up by four points in the last week to 30 per cent support, found Opinium, while a separate YouGov poll between 27 and 28 April found that Labour was up two points to 31 per cent – both figures contributing to a smaller gap between the Tories and the Opposition. A third poll for the Sunday Times showed the Tories had a 13-point lead with 44 percent of the vote, yet a YouGov poll gave the Tories a 23-point lead last week, showing a dip of 10 points.

Perhaps Corbyn has the momentum...

[NeverFeltBetter]

I read some details of that dinner, May comes off looking comically ignorant of the EU's position. There's genuine shock that the EU isn't prepared to let Brexit be a success.

[SkStu]

It's hard to see anything other than a Tory victory at the minute, unfortunately, although Labour do appear to be closing the gap, according the latest polls:

Are we still trusting pollsters given their track record through Likud victory, Scottish Independence, Brexit, many of the Sanders v Clinton primaries, Trump as nominee, and Trump v Clinton?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyyW3sFXcAAg-0W.jpg

2015 and 2016 were anni horribiles for the polling profession... You'd hope to see massive changes in their analytics and methodologies before putting any significant stock in what they are telling us.

As you say Danny, I am finding it difficult to foresee anything other than a comfortable win for the Tories.

[DannyInvincible]

I read some details of that dinner, May comes off looking comically ignorant of the EU's position. There's genuine shock that the EU isn't prepared to let Brexit be a success.

Just seeing some further details of what was discussed at the dinner here: https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/05/01/inside-the-mayjuncker-dinner-about-brexit/


EU side felt May was seeing whole thing through rose-tinted-glasses. “Let us make Brexit a success” she told them. Juncker countered that Britain will now be a third state, not even (like Turkey) in the customs union: “Brexit cannot be a success”.

May seemed surprised by this and seemed to the EU side not to have been fully briefed. She cited her own JHA opt-out negotiations as home sec as a model: a mutually useful agreement meaning lots on paper, little in reality. May’s reference to the JHA (justice and home affairs) opt-outs set off alarm signals for the EU side. This was what they had feared. I.e., as home sec May opted out of EU measures (playing to UK audience) then opted back in, and wrongly thinks she can do same with Brexit.

May really does come out of it badly; amateurish, by the sounds of things.

[backstothewall]

Are we still trusting pollsters given their track record through Likud victory, Scottish Independence, Brexit, many of the Sanders v Clinton primaries, Trump as nominee, and Trump v Clinton?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyyW3sFXcAAg-0W.jpg

2015 and 2016 were anni horribiles for the polling profession... You'd hope to see massive changes in their analytics and methodologies before putting any significant stock in what they are telling us.

As you say Danny, I am finding it difficult to foresee anything other than a comfortable win for the Tories.

I'd disagree with that. The pollsters have delivered exactly what they said they were delivering.

The polls in the run up to Brexit showed it being very tight. It ended up being very close.

The polling on the run up to the US election showed Clinton ahead nationally by between 1%-4%. She won the popular vote by 2.1%.

The problem wasn't in the polling. It was in how it was reported

[SkStu]

That is one take alright. However, I would dispute many facets of it.

Almost all of the swing state polls were predicting Clinton victories of varying degrees to the extent that outlets such as CNN proclaimed that Trump had no path to victory. That is why Trumps victory shocked everyone. That is why Sanders victories in the primaries in States where polls were predicting comfortable Clinton wins shocked everyone. The media reported what the pollsters were saying.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2016/11/economist-explains-3

But at the state level, the errors were extreme. The polling average in Wisconsin gave her a lead of more than five points; she is expected to lose it by two and a half. It gave Mr Trump a relatively narrow two-point edge in Ohio; he ran away with the state by more than eight. He trailed in Michigan and Pennsylvania by four, and looks likely to take both by about a point.

With respect to Brexit, the pollsters again got it wrong. True, they predicted a close call but most were predicting in and around a 4 point swing in favour of Stay. To the extent that Farage and other members of the Leave campaign conceded defeat on the day of the referendum.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/pollsters-know-why-they-were-wrong-about-brexit-2016-7

The companies that do this work do need to adjust how they are approaching these issues and ensuring that their bias and other factors are accounted for appropriately. As Jon Cohen, Chief Research Officer for SurveyMonkey said at the time of the Brexit result:


"We have to learn from missteps that we've seen and Brexit is just the latest spur to get it right," he said. "But we just have to get it right, it's too important not to."

Anyway, I don't want to drag this thread too much further off topic. Apologies. Might be worth its own thread?

[backstothewall]

There was very little state level polling done by crebible polling companies in the US election though. With the national polls the way they were the focus was on places like Arizona and Georgia. Hard to say who to blame for that. The polling companies weren't polling them but they poll the places the media pay them to poll.

I was speaking to Bill White recently who runs lucidtalk polling in Belfast (he's had some excellent results).

He was saying that when Hillary was in Arizona the week before the election that Bill Clinton was going crackers behind the scene saying she needed to be in the rust belt.

[DannyInvincible]

Heh (https://www.facebook.com/owenjones84/posts/1342072125886296).

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/Capture_zpsiavraxpr.png

[KrisLetang]

He was saying that when Hillary was in Arizona the week before the election that Bill Clinton was going crackers behind the scene saying she needed to be in the rust belt.

My friend Joe Weisenthal from Bloomberg tweeted: In hell you are seated across from 2 people. One keeps saying Clinton lost because of Comey. The other keeps saying she didn't visit Wisconsin.

[backstothewall]

My friend Joe Weisenthal from Bloomberg tweeted: In hell you are seated across from 2 people. One keeps saying Clinton lost because of Comey. The other keeps saying she didn't visit Wisconsin.

Surely there should be a guy saying Bernie would have beat him

[DannyInvincible]

An astonishing list of Theresa May's gaffes and (what should be) campaigning embarrassments so far here, yet "[a] recent general election poll found that an astounding 41% of respondents concluded (http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9865) that Theresa May is running a good campaign compared to 22% who thought it was going badly": http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.ie/2017/05/why-do-so-many-people-actually-like.html


There is a significant demographic who like their politics slick, stage-managed and essentially meaningless, and they like their politicians spoting glib endlessly repeated platitudes rather than giving honest answers or detailed policy proposals.If this demographic didn't exist, ans wasn't pretty damned big, then the politicians obviously wouldn't do it would they?

There exists a very significant cohort of people who find actual political policy talk crushingly boring, but who can be easily won over by the endless repetition of familiar sounds.

[KrisLetang]

Obama endorses that French Macaroons guy in stupid ad on French TV. What could possibly go wrong? And why are Macaroons so expensive? They're like 5 bucks each in some places. I like the pink ones.

[peadar1987]

Obama endorses that French Macaroons guy in stupid ad on French TV. What could possibly go wrong? And why are Macaroons so expensive? They're like 5 bucks each in some places. I like the pink ones.

Would you really prefer Le Pen?

[SkStu]

I'm with her.

[The Fly]

I'm with her.

In regards to your fellow countrymen, or at least those on here, North of the border that's extremely short-sighted.

[SkStu]

I am not sure exactly how a victory for Le Pen would impact Northern Ireland at all - outside of some more broad impact to Europe as a result of a Frexit which is not yet a certainty even if Le Pen wins. But I am seriously interested in learning more on what that might be.

If you believe that Le Pen is a fair indication of significant concern amongst a notable number of French people then you should really be asking yourself why - what has caused this. Unchecked globalization and the rise of Islamic terrorism are major concerns for a lot of people. I am all in favour of any sovereign nation that wants to (votes to) protect its interests in the ways that it sees fit. We should expect the French to only care about the French.

[The Fly]

I am not sure exactly how a victory for Le Pen would impact Northern Ireland at all - outside of some more broad impact to Europe as a result of a Frexit which is not yet a certainty even if Le Pen wins. But I am seriously interested in learning more on what that might be.

You just provided the answer.

Brexit has completely re-invigorated the constitutional debate here. It has provided a geo-political dynamic that didn't exist before, so whilst for Britain Brexit is now a one-way ticket, for Northern Ireland there is an automatic right of return. Essentially - unite Ireland and you reunite with Europe.

So, even though Le Pen has rowed back somewhat on her anti-EU rhetoric, a victory for her casts a shadow over this.


If you believe that Le Pen is a fair indication of significant concern amongst a notable number of French people then you should really be asking yourself why - what has caused this. Unchecked globalization and the rise of Islamic terrorism are major concerns for a lot of people.

Of course, and much of that applies to Trump's success in America. I'm not disputing that at all.


I am all in favour of any sovereign nation that wants to (votes to) protect its interests in the ways that it sees fit. We should expect the French to only care about the French.

Perhaps then you'll apply that sentiment, first and foremost, to your fellow countrymen and women North of the border.

[SkStu]

You just provided the answer.

Brexit has completely re-invigorated the constitutional debate here. It has provided a geo-political dynamic that didn't exist before, so whilst for Britain Brexit is now a one-way ticket, for Northern Ireland there is an automatic right of return. Essentially - unite Ireland and you reunite with Europe.

So, even though Le Pen has rowed back somewhat on her anti-EU rhetoric, a victory for her casts a shadow over this.

Good stuff. I wasn't sure if there was something else I was missing. You know, listening to many pre Brexit, you would swear the sky was falling in for Ireland if they voted "Leave". Now that they have, what we realize is that it has actually opened up a lot of opportunity for us and, perhaps, the "experts" are really just making it up as they go. While a Frexit - were it to be a) brought to the French people and b) passed - would be another blow to the power of the EU, I don't think it would mean a whole lot more for Ireland or Northern Ireland than it would to other states. I think the opportunities Brexit created will still exist. Fundamental to this believe is that I also believe there will still be an EU, it will just be a more diluted version. And, principally, that is what I think is best. I think the EU has overreached far beyond its original mandate.


Of course, and much of that applies to Trump's success in America. I'm not disputing that at all.

Absolutely, it was just general comment to explain my thinking behind the next couple of sentences. I wasn't saying that you were arguing the other way. Apologies for not being clear.


Perhaps then you'll apply that sentiment, first and foremost, to your fellow countrymen and women North of the border.

Absolutely. But, ultimately, they must take the action that is necessary to achieve that outcome - if that is what the majority wants. And if the French do vote to leave Europe, Ireland must still look out for Ireland and the people of Northern Ireland must still do what they believe is best for them.

I actually don't think we are disagreeing too much.

[dahamsta]

I love the attempts to somehow justify Le Pen with long-winded debate. She's a racist, sectarian, far-right nutjob that'll damage both France and Europe, and as part of the bizarre far-right global lurch going on at the moment, probably the rest of the globe too.

Macron is an asswipe - they were all asswipes on some level - but they're all better than Le Pen, in the same way Clinton would have been better than Trump, and Obama was better than his opponents, despite their own failings.

Jesus, even Corbyn would be better than that zombie hag May, and he's a complete fupping moron.

Le Pen would be a very significant nail in all of our coffins.

[BonnieShels]

I love the attempts to somehow justify Le Pen with long-winded debate. She's a racist, sectarian, far-right nutjob that'll damage both France and Europe, and as part of the bizarre far-right global lurch going on at the moment, probably the rest of the globe too.

Macron is an asswipe - they were all asswipes on some level - but they're all better than Le Pen, in the same way Clinton would have been better than Trump, and Obama was better than his opponents, despite their own failings.

Jesus, even Corbyn would be better than that zombie hag May, and he's a complete fupping moron.

Le Pen would be a very significant nail in all of our coffins.

All of this. At least twice.

[Charlie Darwin]

I am not sure exactly how a victory for Le Pen would impact Northern Ireland at all - outside of some more broad impact to Europe as a result of a Frexit which is not yet a certainty even if Le Pen wins. But I am seriously interested in learning more on what that might be.

If you believe that Le Pen is a fair indication of significant concern amongst a notable number of French people then you should really be asking yourself why - what has caused this. Unchecked globalization and the rise of Islamic terrorism are major concerns for a lot of people. I am all in favour of any sovereign nation that wants to (votes to) protect its interests in the ways that it sees fit. We should expect the French to only care about the French.
I'm starting to see more and more why you moved away from Bohs. You wouldn't be let in the door at Dalymount these days with views like that. Would you not rather support Rovers? :D

[backstothewall]

Now that the other dominoes haven't fallen after Britain the establishment have a full election cycle to work with. The politics of this are that Britain is going to be hit and hit hard. The likes of Wilders & Le Pen aren't going anywhere so the experience of Brexit will have to be made so awful for Britain that no country will ever dream of attempting it.

[KrisLetang]

Will Macron's financial strategy be know as Macroneconomics?

[BonnieShels]

Now that the other dominoes haven't fallen after Britain the establishment have a full election cycle to work with. The politics of this are that Britain is going to be hit and hit hard. The likes of Wilders & Le Pen aren't going anywhere so the experience of Brexit will have to be made so awful for Britain that no country will ever dream of attempting it.

That was always going to be the case. And that was always my wish. You don;t get to be a petulant child and still get the biscuits.

[peadar1987]

That was always going to be the case. And that was always my wish. You don;t get to be a petulant child and still get the biscuits.

And the harder the UK gets hammered by the EU, the more likely Scotland is to vote to leave the whole sorry mess behind.

[KrisLetang]

But Peadar aren't things kind of a mess right now in different regards? Don't they blame EU migration law for things like this:
https://heatst.com/world/violent-london-scooter-gangs-terrorize-area-near-prince-georges-school/

[backstothewall]

It's a useful thing for the EU to encourage. Losing provinces is exactly the sort of language neo-fascists will understand.

[DannyInvincible]

But Peadar aren't things kind of a mess right now in different regards? Don't they blame EU migration law for things like this:
https://heatst.com/world/violent-london-scooter-gangs-terrorize-area-near-prince-georges-school/

Sorry, who says EU migration law is to blame for the existence of scooter-driving criminals in London? :confused:

[KrisLetang]

Katie Hopkins.

[DannyInvincible]

Katie Hopkins.

Where?

(Also, you're not taking professional troll Katie Hopkins seriously, are you? She's hardly representative of a "they" either...)

[DannyInvincible]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_Z0PjeW0AIgOFL.jpg

[DannyInvincible]

'Journalists as State Functionaries': https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/05/journalists-state-functionaries/


There was a brief moment of truth on Sky News this morning, where there was a short discussion of disquiet among journalists that Theresa May will only take questions that have been pre-vetted and selected in advance by the Tory Party. The Sky reporter even gave the detail that the journalists are not allowed to hold the microphone, which is controlled by a Tory Party functionary so it can be switched off if the journalist strays from the script.

...

My observation that the Conservative platform is in its essentials identical to the BNP manifesto of 2005 has received widespread social media coverage. I simply cannot conceive that the UK can have become so right wing. Now add to that, it has become so authoritarian there is no reaction to advance vetting of journalists questions – something Vladimir Putin does not do. And very few people seem to care.