Euro 2016

[pineapple stu]

Well I do, we'd do them. Not comfortably or anything disrespectful, but we'd edge them. IMO
I just think it's a comment which doesn't really fit in with your post about the English being disrespectful and arrogant towards Iceland.

[CraftyToePoke]

I just think it's a comment which doesn't really fit in with your post about the English being disrespectful and arrogant towards Iceland.

You are seeing something that's simply not there, there is a world between believing Ireland would beat Iceland, probably, and the way Iceland were dismissed in the lead up by England, the media here, etc. Do you see ?

[Real ale Madrid]

England yet to win a European championship knock out game over 90 mins. Staggering. The home of football.

[SkStu]

That was easier than expected, thank you Rooney, Kane, Sterling, Wiltshire and last but not least, Joe Harte.
Great scenes downtown Reykjavik, about 15k to 20k watching the match together, the best gathering since the pots and pans protest in autumn of 2008. There were even fireworks post game which is kinda humorous, seeing as the midnight sun is at it's peak.

A few days pre game, a nice touch was provided by the Iceland FA towards the supporters group.
The Iceland national team supporters group is called Tolfun (the old name for the 12th man), They were a small group of 10 or so fans who came with team shirts and drums to the home games and made noise. Way back in 2011 Heimir the now joint manager and heir apparent, talked with them and said he would go to the pub beside the stadium where they met before games, that he would present the team sheet before anybody else knew and explain how they would be set up to play. He still does this. The idea was, we were in this together, this is our link and spread the word. From that grew the massed ranks of Tolfun The other day the press reported that original group of 10 had to come home after the group stages, no money and work duties, The iceland FA stepped in and offered them match tickets for the England game, a charter flight to Nice and accommodation.

Delighted for you Geysir - enjoy the party! I know you take a bit of a ribbing on here but that's the stuff of dreams.

[SkStu]

https://vine.co/v/iMPja9Hv52A

See you next time Dele.

[osarusan]

A few days pre game, a nice touch was provided by the Iceland FA towards the supporters group.
The Iceland national team supporters group is called Tolfun (the old name for the 12th man), They were a small group of 10 or so fans who came with team shirts and drums to the home games and made noise. Way back in 2011 Heimir the now joint manager and heir apparent, talked with them and said he would go to the pub beside the stadium where they met before games, that he would present the team sheet before anybody else knew and explain how they would be set up to play. He still does this. The idea was, we were in this together, this is our link and spread the word. From that grew the massed ranks of Tolfun The other day the press reported that original group of 10 had to come home after the group stages, no money and work duties, The iceland FA stepped in and offered them match tickets for the England game, a charter flight to Nice and accommodation.
That is fantastic. Hopefully they get to stay there for the next round also.

[pineapple stu]

You are seeing something that's simply not there, there is a world between believing Ireland would beat Iceland, probably, and the way Iceland were dismissed in the lead up by England, the media here, etc. Do you see ?
I just don't think there's much a leap from you dismissing Iceland - a team who haven't yet lost a match at this tournament - as a team we'd probably beat, and the English media's mindset.

Certainly agree we'd have given Iceland a better game, and also that last night was quite funny for the reasons you note.

[OwlsFan]

Player for player, the English players on paper are better. Most of the Icelanders play in a lower league and some even failed in the UK. Some of the English players are very average by any standard but then so are the Icelanders. So why did Iceland win? They had a plan, team spirit and no pressure. These things in themselves are usually not enough but England, other than give the ball to Sterling and hope his pace will get him beyond the defenders, seemed to be clueless. It was if they knew here was the perennial banana skin and they were going to fall. Rashford, who would not have any baggage, was brought on with only 5 minutes to go and immediately made a difference - 5 minutes when it was obvious that Harry Kane was having a stinker. Paralysis at all levels. Didn't they beat Iceland 6-1 or something like that the last time they played. They didn't even cope with the long throws very well when all and sundry knew this was one of the Icelanders' primary attacking tools. Fear gripped the English team the minute their opponents equalised and confidence vanished. I believe player for player they were good enough to beat Iceland but tactical blunders, poor management, and most of the fear of failure paralyzed the team and allowed Iceland to play their game comfortably and get a deserved win. The story of the tournament.

I also saw most of the Italy/Spanish game. What a performance by Italy who made Spain almost look as bad as England, especially in the first half. They are not afraid to throw men forward when required. Spain need to rebuild. Two excellent games.

[ifk101]

Fair dues to Iceland. Very efficient execution of a simple and organised game plan.

[geysir]

Player for player, the English players on paper are better. Most of the Icelanders play in a lower league and some even failed in the UK. Some of the English players are very average by any standard but then so are the Icelanders. So why did Iceland win? They had a plan, team spirit and no pressure. These things in themselves are usually not enough but England, other than give the ball to Sterling and hope his pace will get him beyond the defenders, seemed to be clueless. It was if they knew here was the perennial banana skin and they were going to fall. Rashford, who would not have any baggage, was brought on with only 5 minutes to go and immediately made a difference - 5 minutes when it was obvious that Harry Kane was having a stinker. Paralysis at all levels. Didn't they beat Iceland 6-1 or something like that the last time they played. They didn't even cope with the long throws very well when all and sundry knew this was one of the Icelanders' primary attacking tools. Fear gripped the English team the minute their opponents equalised and confidence vanished. I believe player for player they were good enough to beat Iceland but tactical blunders, poor management, and most of the fear of failure paralyzed the team and allowed Iceland to play their game comfortably and get a deserved win. The story of the tournament.

I also saw most of the Italy/Spanish game. What a performance by Italy who made Spain almost look as bad as England, especially in the first half. They are not afraid to throw men forward when required. Spain need to rebuild. Two excellent games.

The Icelanders bettered England in all aspects on the pitch and didn't drop the pace and intensity of their game one bit throughout the whole 95 minutes, it was total football executed on the pitch to perfection. The centre half scored the first, had the overhead kick then did that outrageous (Paul McGrath like) sliding tackle in the box.

Would the Icelandic goalie have been red carded under the "old" rule?

[DeLorean]

I also saw most of the Italy/Spanish game. What a performance by Italy who made Spain almost look as bad as England, especially in the first half. They are not afraid to throw men forward when required. Spain need to rebuild. Two excellent games.

Italy were fantastic alright. They had everything that Spain lacked. Sad to see but Spain actually looked like a team that weren't too fussed about going home, no urgency or passion. That's the impression I got anyway. Italy v Germany is mouth watering now. Germany are due a competitive win against them but they'll get nothing easy. Thiago Motta's late booking was stupid in the extreme. They could be left short in there as De Rossi had come off earlier.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Work with a few Italian lads. All in bits yesterday, tears were flowing. Overcoming Spain, after 2012, meant a lot.

[CraftyToePoke]

I just don't think there's much a leap from you dismissing Iceland

Well there is, a quantum one, to me. And I never dismissed them at all. I am in awe of their structures and progress over the last years and follow it with admiration. I just look at them and feel we would edge them presently, is all.

Anyway, one of my favourite non Ireland footy moments, easily. And that synchronised hand clap chant is beyond cool.

[DeLorean]

I'd only give us a 50/50 chance at best really. I think they would have done more to merit a favourites tag. Fairly crude recent statistics would suggest they score slightly more goals than us and maybe even defend a bit better too. Not much in it either way but we'd probably have a hard time breaking them down. What an opportunity it would have been though.

The RTÉ lads last night mentioned that England have only won six knock-out games in major competitions since winning the World Cup in 1966.

Paraguay (WC86 Last 16) 3-0
Belgium (WC90 Last 16) 1-0
Cameroon (WC90 Q/Final) 3-2
Spain (Euro 96 Q/Final) 0-0 (Pens 4-2)
Denmark (WC02 Last 16) 3-0
Ecuador (WC06 Last 16) 1-0

[Stuttgart88]

https://vine.co/v/iMPja9Hv52A

See you next time Dele.
I loved his dive in the first half. "England are too honest to dive".

[pineapple stu]

The RTÉ lads last night mentioned that England have only won six knock-out games in major competitions since winning the World Cup in 1966.
Worth noting 1966 was the first time England won a knock-out tie.

[DeLorean]

Worth noting 1966 was the first time England won a knock-out tie.

Didn't know that, definitely worth noting!

[geysir]

I'd only give us a 50/50 chance at best really. I think they would have done more to merit a favourites tag. Fairly crude recent statistics would suggest they score slightly more goals than us and maybe even defend a bit better too. Not much in it either way but we'd probably have a hard time breaking them down. What an opportunity it would have been though.

Unfortunately only Iceland succeeded in playing their part for that fantasy scenario :)
The 'hard to break down' tag is just a part of their game, just one of the features, personally I wouldn't (and you're not) over-egg it more than what it is, i.e. something they do just as well as other parts of their game. But they are harder to break down than Ireland.

Other differing factors from this tournament.
Fitness levels are better, the same starting 11 in each game and appear to be getting fitter.
Consistency of performance.
Absolute familiarity between the Iceland players themselves and with the management.
Confidence with the system, they have been settled in and perfecting the flexibility within their game for years, whether it's 4411 or 442 and make it look simple.
The default fault with Portugal, Austria and England was, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that Iceland had to up their game in order to hold their ground in their exalted company and ultimately they would not be able to sustain it.

[DeLorean]

The 'hard to break down' tag is just a part of their game, just one of the features, personally I wouldn't (and you're not) over-egg it more than what it is, i.e. something they do just as well as other parts of their game.

Yeah, I was combining it with the fact that we're not very good at breaking teams down anyway. We don't score more than one goal against semi decent opposition very often. In the whole of this campaign we only managed to score two or more against Georgia (once) and Gibraltar. It makes it pretty difficult to win matches as were over-reliant on keeping clean sheets. Iceland, I see, managed more than one goal six times in qualification and twice more so far in this tournament, including multiple goals in matches against Czech Rep, Netherlands, Turkey, Austria and England.

[OwlsFan]

Confidence with the system, they have been settled in and perfecting the flexibility within their game for years, whether it's 4411 or 442 and make it look simple

So is there something to be said for the much maligned 4-4-2 ?

[BonnieShels]

So is there something to be said for the much maligned 4-4-2 ?

There's everything to be said for it. When teams are set up not to counter it then it's a wall.

It's been proven a lot over the last 2-3 years.

Proper old school counter-attacking football is back baby!

[DeLorean]

The Italians had the wing back system off to a tee the other day. De Sciglio was very impressive left wing back. I've been kind of keeping an eye on him since that game in Craven Cottage when he looked brilliant. He seems to be in and out of the Milan side but looks really good any time I see him for Italy.

[Stuttgart88]

Interesting story of the Icelandic "clap" routine

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/euro-2016-the-surprising-history-of-icelands-viking-war-chant-742271.html

[Stuttgart88]

There's everything to be said for it. When teams are set up not to counter it then it's a wall.

It's been proven a lot over the last 2-3 years.

Proper old school counter-attacking football is back baby!Jonathan Wilson was on Twitter saying that the enlarged format has reduced the standard of football, citing among other things, goals per game being down. But maybe it's the ebb and flow of football tactics, anti-possession now trumping possession?

[BonnieShels]

Jonathan Wilson was on Twitter saying that the enlarged format has reduced the standard of football, citing among other things, goals per game being down. But maybe it's the ebb and flow of football tactics, anti-possession now trumping possession?

Could well be. To see how stifled Spain have been while Germany stutter seems to indicate a certain change to a different brand of football.

[TheBoss]

Harry Kane v Iceland

https://twitter.com/LinoTreize/status/747790389898321920

[Closed Account 2]

I think that link might be broken, but it's such a good video it's worth digging another link out for it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_2BF7l4fKM

[Stuttgart88]

Great compilation, though in fairness he did have a good first half volley saved.

I love how England respond to years of not being able to keep the ball by changing to dominating possession and doing nothing with it.

I also love how the FA now think that the solution to dominating possession but struggling to break down teams who put bodies behind the ball is Arsene Wenger.

Me? I think Andy Carroll would have made a difference. Seriously.

[Stuttgart88]

Could well be. To see how stifled Spain have been while Germany stutter seems to indicate a certain change to a different brand of football.Stuttering to a facile 3-0 win over Slovakia having missed a penalty:)

[BonnieShels]

Stuttering to a facile 3-0 win over Slovakia having missed a penalty:)

It was pretty stuttery if you include ALL games.

[NeverFeltBetter]

England are just caught in an endless cycle of "The current English manager is too behind the times! We need a modern continental approach! Hey, this foreign guy looks great!" followed four years later by "This foreign guy doesn't 'get' English football, he's not getting the best out of the players, we need someone homegrown in charge, hey this English guy had a half-decent season recently".

[NeverFeltBetter]

So, can Portugal actually win this thing?

[davidatrb]

I don't know but would be curious if they did.

That's Portugal into the semi final without winning a game and without playing a team ranked inside the top 25 except for Austria who are arguably the weakest side they faced.

[TheBoss]

I must say Portugal have been poor imo and yet have somehow plodded their way to the semi-finals. They can certainly play better than they are showing so they might peak at the right time.

[Stuttgart88]

I usually really like a cagey low scoring game but that was a struggle to watch last night.

[osarusan]

First half was high speed stuff but it died after that.

[Stuttgart88]

Can anyone ever remember a tournament where the ballboys have been so dire? I've lost count of the number of times two balls have been on the pitch.

[DeLorean]

It was a classic compared to their previous match against Croatia I thought, although it did get progressively worse (more cagey) after half time.

I'm not sure who it was on here who talked about Portugal being chokers but, if anything, I think they've been remarkably consistent and showed plenty of bottle in recent years. This will be their fifth semi final since the turn of the millennium and they only lost by the odd goal in earlier knock-out rounds against Germany and Spain in two more tournaments. They've come out the right side of a lot of high pressure games against teams around their own level, England, Netherlands, etc. For a side that are never really any higher than fifth or sixth favourites (bar maybe Euro 2004 as hosts when they reached the final) they generally reach or exceed their potential, bar a couple of poor World Cups when the United States surprisingly had their measure in the group stages.

It was good to see Ronaldo put his ego to one side temporarily and get them off to a good start in the shoot-out. Overall I'm glad they went through, they're not setting the world on fire but they've still got the potential to be less bland than Poland I think. The much maligned Pepe has been excellent in their last two games actually, I suppose you don't play for Real Madrid for nothing, even if he looks a bit out of place there at times.

[Stuttgart88]

Pepe was brilliant. Great defending. Pity he's such a tit.

[OwlsFan]

Yes, Poland faded badly after the first half along with the game and once Portugal got their equaliser, they reverted to their defensive game. They are so lucky they are in the poor half of the draw as they would be on their sun loungers by now. A Wales/Portugal semi-final - I think I would watch Coronation Street instead.

As regards Poland who relatively comfortably took 4 points from us, they were tough going to watch in nearly all their games. Like many of the teams in the tournament, set up to be hard to beat but not much class after that.

[Stuttgart88]

I think that's been the dominant theme so far - the tactical (for want of a better word) pendulum seems to have swung back to "hard to beat". Most teams seem to be very good without the ball but not many seem particularly good with it.

I thought Poland wiped the floor with us for large parts of the Warsaw game. Although we were particularly poor that night and I think we have shown signs of being able to play better, I still think it strikes a cautionary note for WC18 qualifying. If a technically good and athletic Poland team can look so limited then we can't get above ourselves.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Desperate defending from the Welsh there, it was like a GAA match with all the defenders standing on the line.

[DeLorean]

Davies out of a potential semi final already. Two yellow cards in five games is hardly worthy of such a punishment. That kind of sh!te actually drives me mad.

[NeverFeltBetter]

That was an absolute rocket. Wonder how fast it was travelling?

[DeLorean]

Great strike, poor goalkeeping. You'd have to fear for them now. Bale will need to pull something majestic out of his ass tonight.

[BonnieShels]

And Williams did. Delighted.

This Belgian team are thoroughly dislikable. Horrifically so. So I'll be shouting for that other shower tonight despite my natural dislike for Wales.

Hon Wayels!

[NeverFeltBetter]

Terrible defending for the equaliser - Wales just massed four players and broke apart when the corner was taken, and Belgium fell to pieces, amateur stuff - and now Bale looks like he's turning up. Cracker on the cards here.

[davidatrb]

And Williams did. Delighted.

This Belgian team are thoroughly dislikable. Horrifically so. So I'll be shouting for that other shower tonight despite my natural dislike for Wales.

Hon Wayels!

Why don't you like Belgium?

Anyway I have some money on Belgium so will be cheering them.

Interesting article on their "wide open" style of play. Looks like this is another wide open game.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2016/06/29/belgium-must-prevent-gareth-bale-of-wales-from-having-space-to-play/

Although I can see it back firing on them against players like bale, or if they make it, against Ronaldo!

[DeLorean]

I'm not mad about them either for some reason. I think it might be the (up until now) unjustified hype that surrounds them. Their fans were super craic though. Brilliant response from Wales, some really good possession as well. The yellow cards are a major worry though.

[DeLorean]

Belgium are a mess from these set pieces.