Euro 2016

[geysir]

The Swiss should be barred from future finals, at least a tv blackout. They will never be anything more than functionally boring at this international level.

[NeverFeltBetter]

At 1-1 it seemed like neither side really wanted to go for it. I don't think there is any likely scenario where 4 points isn't enough to get a team through, and the Swiss had that with a draw, while Romania could be confident of getting there with a draw and a win in their last game against Albania.

This is the perils of the expanded system, with two teams that don't seem all that accomplished grinding out a result to do the bare minimum to get to the knock-outs. And they'll expand the Euro's to 32 within a decade or so, I have no doubt.

[geysir]

At 1-1 it seemed like neither side really wanted to go for it. I don't think there is any likely scenario where 4 points isn't enough to get a team through, and the Swiss had that with a draw, while Romania could be confident of getting there with a draw and a win in their last game against Albania.

This is the perils of the expanded system, with two teams that don't seem all that accomplished grinding out a result to do the bare minimum to get to the knock-outs. And they'll expand the Euro's to 32 within a decade or so, I have no doubt.
Normal enough for teams in the group stages at any finals to want not to lose after one of them equalises, that's how it's been for yonks, nothing to do with extended format.
ireland v netherlands for example :)

Extended format bashers need to look for real evidence, not 'makey up stuff' in order to support an opinion.

[NeverFeltBetter]

If three teams of four can get out of a group, the impetus to try to get three points from every game is diminished further. I don't think anyone would claim that teams haven't played for draws under the old system, but I'm sure Romania would have each tried harder for a winner if they knew only two teams were getting out of their group. They just didn't have the motivation to do that out there.

I'm making nothing up. This is just common sense. And while there will always be exceptions and variations in the way groups pan out, I don't think its a controversial opinion to suggest the group stages have lost a degree of competitiveness with the expanded format.

[pineapple stu]

The flip side is if the Swiss had won, they'd have had a great chance at first place in the group and an easier path in the knock-out section. While it's easier to get out of the groups now, I don't think it's necessarily the case that neither team was that bothered about winning.

I think it just wasn't a good game - far from the first in the tournament. It's not a vintage one at all so far.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Awful game between the hosts and Albania lends credence to that thought. France can't seem to get going at all, Martial looks lost out on the right.

As an aside, totally given up on TV3's Live Player. At least RTE's lets you pick a resolution, TV3 insist on making me follow pixels around even though my internet is just fine.

[pineapple stu]

Albania's crossing has been superb; causing France no end of trouble. And Albania beat France in the "qualifiers", so they might be sensing blood now.

[pineapple stu]

"Blazed" over by Matuidi - love it!

[SkStu]

it would be a shame if this stayed 0-0 and allowed France-Switzerland last game to be a dead rubber where they could just play out the draw and guarantee they both qualify.

[pineapple stu]

At least it's picked up - been a great game since NeverFeltBetter reverse jinxed it!

[pineapple stu]

Argh! Harsh on Albania.

Still, we've a 50/50 chance of meeting the Group A winners in the next round if we get through as a best third-placed team. Wouldn't be worried about facing France or Switzerland having seen them so far.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Starting to get a very Brazil '14 feeling off France. Celebrating like they won the tournament after being shown up for 89 minutes by Albania. They'll get theirs.

[osarusan]

Sickened by the late goals, really hoped Albania would hold on. I thought they were fantastic.

[osarusan]

it would be a shame if this stayed 0-0 and allowed France-Switzerland last game to be a dead rubber where they could just play out the draw and guarantee they both qualify.
That could still happen anyway - if anything it's more likely to happen now that France have 6 points. I still think France will go for the win anyway though.

[Stuttgart88]

Sickened by the late goals, really hoped Albania would hold on. I thought they were fantastic.
Yeah, but quality match considering all the context. It's why I love international footy over every other form. Just love it.

[BonnieShels]

The flip side is if the Swiss had won, they'd have had a great chance at first place in the group and an easier path in the knock-out section. While it's easier to get out of the groups now, I don't think it's necessarily the case that neither team was that bothered about winning.

I think it just wasn't a good game - far from the first in the tournament. It's not a vintage one at all so far.

Is there much to be said for the fact of the 24-team format lending itself to a load of dull games? Teams are less inclined to go and win games if there is a good chance that draws are weighted inordinately.

I've seen very little on account of travelling to and from France and being at IRL-SWE and but what I have seen (Bar the hilarity of England's concession [that I watched in a bar in Crystal Palace]) has been poor fare. Only got to see the first half of ALB-FRA, in Gatwick waiting on my flight and I enjoyed it.

[pineapple stu]

That's the point NeverFeltBetter was making earlier in the thread - I don't think it's necessarily the case myself. Big difference between finishing third in your group (and maybe not even getting through) and winning the group in terms of who you meet in the next round.

"Kane isn't Able" as Harry Kane fires a free well over - good man Jim Beglin!

[pineapple stu]

Bale is able though!

England going home?

[DannyInvincible]

Great stuff.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

What a ball by Sturridge.

Amazing he was given that much space though.

[BonnieShels]

Offside much?

[pineapple stu]

The England goal?

Not offside - Welsh defender got the assist.

[BonnieShels]

I'm watching it on my phone in the office with the sound down. So I can only get glances.

Did it get a touch before landing at Vardy's feet? Because initially seeing it he was miles off.

[pineapple stu]

Vardy was well offside - but doesn't count if it was the Welsh player who headed it back, which he did.

No offside.

[pineapple stu]

Arse.

So we've had 12 games - 4 1-0s, 4 1-1s, 4 2-1s and 4 2-0s.

Best third-placed team is going to be bloody tight.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Wales still well placed to go through despite that.

Missed opportunity for us..

[BonnieShels]

Vardy was well offside - but doesn't count if it was the Welsh player who headed it back, which he did.

No offside.

I didn't see that at all. I'll watch it when I get home for UKR-IFA.

[Real ale Madrid]

Arse.

So we've had 12 games - 4 1-0s, 4 1-1s, 4 2-1s and 4 2-0s.

Best third-placed team is going to be bloody tight.

Could be drawing lots at this rate.

[pineapple stu]

Can't go to drawing of lots - tiebreakers are here. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2016#Tiebreakers) Worth keeping half an eye on alright!

[osarusan]

Alan Shearer: It's no fluke the ball fell to Jamie Vardy for his goal. He has that striker's instinct.

I'd say getting the ball when a defender mistimes the header and sends it the other way than they intended is pretty fluky myself.

Overall they deserved the win though. If you decide to see out the game for a point like Wales did, then you can't complain if you don't manage to do that.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/16/marseille-england-football-violence

Excellent article on the England fan violence and complicity in provoking local and Russian fans.

[Stuttgart88]

It was like a Championship end of season game. Lots of frantic huff and puff. Very enjoyable but I'd have loved for England to have come unstuck. Head says they can't win this but heart only agrees an hour after they have actually been knocked out.

[DannyInvincible]

Think that's the first game where a team has come back from 1-0 down to win.

[Stuttgart88]

Can't go to drawing of lots - tiebreakers are here. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2016#Tiebreakers) Worth keeping half an eye on alright!I'll read that later but there could be lots of teams on 3 and 4 points in third place.

[pineapple stu]

The North drop half their team, including Lafferty.

Interesting call.

[pineapple stu]

Go on the Nordies!

Just a shame there's no-one at it.

[pineapple stu]

More goals in this with this weather.

How the hell is there hail in the south of France in the middle of summer?!

Edit - play suspended?! Bit much.

[Stuttgart88]

NI playing really well. Ukraine pretty ordinary at best, or made to look it.

[pineapple stu]

Worth noting if it stays like this, 2 points is already not enough to qualify as best third-placed team. So if we only draw with Belgium, we need another result against Italy. We need a win somewhere.

Edit - sorry, that's nonsense. Two third-place teams will be guaranteed three points, but would need four to completely rule out 2 points qualifying. Still, looking unlikely, though it has happened in the past.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Ukraine are awful. Wish we'd got them.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Ukraine are awful. Wish we'd got them.

We would have made them look good.

[pineapple stu]

Niall McGinn!

Gwan the LoI!

Daft bugger should have gone for the corner though. :)

[NeverFeltBetter]

That was the kind of second half Ireland needed to play the other night. Sigh.

[osarusan]

Yeah, i thought they managed the game really well after the first goal.

Ukraine were shocking though.

[DannyInvincible]

McGinn must be the first former Derry City player to score at a major finals. Can't think of anyone else.

[NeverFeltBetter]

This is a defenders tournament. 15 times a game I see an attacking team shoot from distance with lack of anything else to try, and have it blocked down by one of 3/4 defenders positioned in the way (or fly wide). Just so many teams willing to sit back and absorb right from the off.

[pineapple stu]

Some of the games have been like Olympic handball matches - just passing the ball across the box waiting for a chance to shoot from outside the box.

I guess it helps that players are so much better conditioned these days that they can cover more ground? So it's easier to defend than before, and harder to break teams down.

Is this a good thing? Is it just a temporary thing? (Though the World Cup was very similar from the quarters on, once you got past the naive African defending) Is there any rule change that can be proposed to help shift the balance back towards attack? Or is it just teams sitting back more because avoiding defeat is the way to get through the groups in a 24-team competition? (I've argued against that earlier in the thread)

Either way, we've on 2 goals per game, not counting Geryamn v Poland (which is pretty poor). 20% down on recent years - and back to Euro 96 levels, which is held as one of the poorest tournaments in recent times. I know goals aren't everything, but still.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Worst game of the tournament. With the tiebreak rules I don't think Ukraine can actually overtake the North now, correct? So barring an unlikely win against Germany (though, who knows, the Germans don't seem that great), it'll come down to the third place standing for NI.

[pineapple stu]

Other question is - who's going to win this?

None of the top seeds have impressed really. France, England and Spain have all needed late goals to win. England, Portugal and Germany have given up uninspiring draws. Belgium have lost.

If it's to be another Greece/Denmark, who have we got? Teams like Austria, Switzerland, Russia, Ukraine, and Poland haven't impressed really.

Arguably the best performances have been from the minnows - Albania, Iceland, the North, Wales, Hungary. I can't see any of them winning though.

Italy are maybe the only team without a blot so far - though they're up next, so let's see how that goes.

But struggling to see a champion so far.

[Real ale Madrid]

Croatia are 16/1 - I could see them going deep into the tournament.