Euro 2016

[Stuttgart88]

Again the NI match showed the capricious nature of sport. NI were undoubtedly the superior team in what I saw (all of second half, none of the first) but straight after their goal they conceded a headed chance that Ukraine should have buried.

I guess I'm getting a bit paranoid about this issue now but I'm just querying the notion that there is a perfect way to close out a game and that we're guilty of not implementing it. Liam Brady was praising the Italians for doing it but at 1 up they gave away a one-on-one from 35 yards by playing a high line. That is about the most un-Italian thing I've ever seen!

[Stuttgart88]

Croatia are 16/1 - I could see them going deep into the tournament.Was thinking exactly the same. Nobody has impressed me more than them yet.

[Stuttgart88]

Worst game of the tournament. With the tiebreak rules I don't think Ukraine can actually overtake the North now, correct? So barring an unlikely win against Germany (though, who knows, the Germans don't seem that great), it'll come down to the third place standing for NI.ROI vs NI in the last 16 is still very much on the cards :)

[Stuttgart88]

Some of the games have been like Olympic handball matches - just passing the ball across the box waiting for a chance to shoot from outside the box.

I guess it helps that players are so much better conditioned these days that they can cover more ground? So it's easier to defend than before, and harder to break teams down.

Is this a good thing? Is it just a temporary thing? (Though the World Cup was very similar from the quarters on, once you got past the naive African defending) Is there any rule change that can be proposed to help shift the balance back towards attack? Or is it just teams sitting back more because avoiding defeat is the way to get through the groups in a 24-team competition? (I've argued against that earlier in the thread)

Either way, we've on 2 goals per game, not counting Geryamn v Poland (which is pretty poor). 20% down on recent years - and back to Euro 96 levels, which is held as one of the poorest tournaments in recent times. I know goals aren't everything, but still.I think it's been a good tournament though. Lack of goals shows that the matches are well-matched and the supposed lesser countries are playing with a good degree of tactical sophistication and good technique too. I think I heard yesterday that 5 or 6 games have been decided in the last 5 minutes.

I've liked Albania who haven't scored yet but have come close and have been very competitive against two much more fancied teams. I admire them for that and enjoy watching them. There's no shortage of skill and confidence on the ball in that team, and I think that's a widely seen feature so far across most of the teams. There have been a few flops so far (Ukraine and Russia, Turkey maybe...) but that's part of the weeding out process.

I'll need to refer to stu's earlier post to see what he said about 3 qualifiers (not) breeding defensive football but arguably it has let teams play less cautiously, knowing that after game 1 there's a second chance. I genuinely think that had this not been an enlarged competition teams like NI and Iceland may not have done as well as they did in qualifying, even though each won its group. The new system allowed for a less conservative approach. [Sidebar: I really hope the incentive of virtually assured qualification makes us play for the win tomorrow].

I'm not sure a clear trend is emerging yet, other than the Spain / Germany / Arsenal(!) way of playing a high-possession game appears to be struggling. Maybe it's the lack of an outstanding no. 9 in each team, or maybe in itself the style of play makes being a 9 a thankless task.

I think Germany are lacking pace from the full back position and that is going to be a problem for them.

[osarusan]

This game is absolute muck so far. Turgid stuff.

[Stuttgart88]

Italy look like a draw will suit them because they a game against someone like Andorra coming up next.

[pineapple stu]

The colours, the sun and the camera angle - is it closer than usual? - all remind me of the 1970 World Cup Final.

The game...doesn't.

[pineapple stu]

Anyone noticed how the UEFA shop ad has fine-looking specimens representing each country, except Ireland, represented by a fat, bearded, ginger in a leprechaun outfit?

Racist, I tells ya!

[osarusan]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l3V0pfv51h5nodXBC/giphy.gif

[pineapple stu]

Never was a man happier to see an offside flag.

[NeverFeltBetter]

If this game was a horse I'd shoot it.

[pineapple stu]

Great goal. Not waiting 88 minutes for.

Suits us at least.

[DannyInvincible]

Has to be good for us. We could qualify in second place with three draws if Sweden and Belgium draw as well. That correct?

[pineapple stu]

That'd work - though we'd have to draw with Italy too. Or we could finish second by drawing with Belgium and a 2-1 defeat to Italy.

Wouldn't settle for a draw with Belgium on that basis though.

I think whatever the result was here, we just need to target one win and we're through.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Yeah, that would be:

Italy: 7
Ireland: 3
Belgium: 2
Sweden: 2

[NeverFeltBetter]

Sweden have apparently yet to manufacture a shot on goal in the tournament. Hate, hate, hate that we dropped points to them.

[BonnieShels]

The colours, the sun and the camera angle - is it closer than usual? - all remind me of the 1970 World Cup Final.

The game...doesn't.

Again watching it on my phone in the office and I thought something similar... well that it was an old school Brazil-Italy match.

[DannyInvincible]

That'd work - though we'd have to draw with Italy too. Or we could finish second by drawing with Belgium and a 2-1 defeat to Italy.

Wouldn't settle for a draw with Belgium on that basis though.

I think whatever the result was here, we just need to target one win and we're through.

Would the number of goals scored in the drawn games make a difference in a tie-breaker situation? If the Belgium-Sweden game ended in a high-scoring draw, would that mean we'd have to score more goals as well? Looking at the tie-breaking criteria, I get the impression it would as it may come down to goals scored.

[pineapple stu]

Oh, you could be right alright.

Usually goal difference - but not this time.

So if we've drawn all three of our games, then it does get hugely tight.

Let's just beat Belgium.

[pineapple stu]

A second Northern Irish fan has died (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-36554791) - suffered a heart attack during the Ukraine match in the stadium. Very sad. :(

[DannyInvincible]

Something on the fractured relationship between Croatia's organised fans and their football association, which was the reason for the crowd disturbance and flares on the pitch towards the end of Croatia's game against the Czechs: http://balkanist.net/democratic-hooligan-radical-democracy-social-protest-amongst-football-fans-croatia/

Their aim was to harm their own association.

Cracking finish to this game now. Would a Croatia win have been preferable for us though? Can't believe they threw it away.

[geysir]

Something on the fractured relationship between Croatia's organised fans and their football association, which was the reason for the crowd disturbance and flares on the pitch towards the end of Croatia's game against the Czechs: http://balkanist.net/democratic-hooligan-radical-democracy-social-protest-amongst-football-fans-croatia/

Their aim was to harm their own association.

Cracking finish to this game now. Would a Croatia win have been preferable for us though? Can't believe they threw it away.
The issues runs deeper than some angst with their FA, it's more to do with their being a large fascist core in their support.
Immediately after Croatia beat Iceland WC2014 play off 2nd leg, one of their players Simunic grabbed the pa mike in the middle of the field and led the crowd in a loud rendition of a call response fascist chant, only associated with ultra WW2 nazis the Ustase, who by comparison made the SS look more like kindergarten cops.
Can you imagine if some german player grabbed the mic and led the whole crowd behind the terrace in chants of Sieg Heil.
Simunic was banned for 10 games.

[osarusan]

Has anybody noticed that teams don't always have two players right next to the ball for the kickoffs? Sometimes one will kick the ball back to another around the edge of the centre circle?

Has there been a rule change of some kind which allows this change in behaviour?

EDIT: To answer my own question - yes, the rule that the first touch must be forwards is now gone, as of 2016.

[Stuttgart88]

Is there a risk that even a narrow win vs Italy will not be enough to be a 3rd place qualifier? I eas thinking that Hungarian equaliser might have been good for us.

[thischarmingman]

Has anybody noticed that teams don't always have two players right next to the ball for the kickoffs? Sometimes one will kick the ball back to another around the edge of the centre circle?

Has there been a rule change of some kind which allows this change in behaviour?

EDIT: To answer my own question - yes, the rule that the first touch must be forwards is now gone, as of 2016.

Yeah, this was from an interview earlier in the week:


Steven Davis made a minor bit of history with Northern Ireland's first touch at the European Championship. Coach Michael O'Neill, however, doesn't want that to be his team's only milestone at Euro 2016.

Davis, a Southampton midfielder, became the first man in European Championship history to employ the one-man kickoff in Sunday's match against Poland, using a recent rule change that allows players to pass the ball either back or forward at a kickoff.

"We are hoping it's not the highlight of the tournament for us," O'Neill joked Wednesday, a day before the team's second match against Ukraine.

[geysir]

Is there a risk that even a narrow win vs Italy will not be enough to be a 3rd place qualifier? I eas thinking that Hungarian equaliser might have been good for us.
You'd witness Mother Teresa getting mugged and wonder how that might be advantageous to your situation :)
Hard to tell what is likely to happen in Group F as form has been turned on it's head. First beat Italy (obviously) and then think about what's what, and beating italy is a long shot regardless of their starting 11
But if Ireland do beat Italy and have 4 points, offhand i can think of 9 options for group F and in 7 of those options Ireland's 4 points would be superior to group f's 3rd place.
What you don't want is
iceland to beat Austria and Portugal beat Hungary
or
Austria to beat Iceland and Portugal to beat Hungary
Consult with Tricky on the odds of that happening.

[TheBoss]

Is there a risk that even a narrow win vs Italy will not be enough to be a 3rd place qualifier? I eas thinking that Hungarian equaliser might have been good for us.

I think these are all the situations that Ireland want to happen, might have missed 1 or 2.

Pre-Condition: Ireland 1-0 Italy
4 points / -2 GD / 2 Goals

Must happen in at least 2 Groups

GROUP A:
Scenario 1: Albania Win/Draw v Romania
Scenario 2: If Romania win, France must Win by 4 goals v Switzerland

GROUP B:
Scenario 1: England Win v Slovakia
Scenario 2: If Slovakia Win v England and Russia Win v Wales, Slovakia must Win by 4 goals

GROUP C:
Scenario 1: Germany Win v Northern Ireland
Scenario 2: If Northern Ireland Draw v Germany, Ukraine must Win v Poland by 4 goals
Scenario 3: Northern Ireland Win v Germany by 5 goals

GROUP D:
Scenario 1: Czech Republic Draw v Turkey
Scenario 2: Turkey Win v Czech Republic
Scenario 3: If Czech Republic Win v Turkey, Spain must Win v Croatia by 4 goals

GROUP E:
Scenario 1: If Ireland Win v Italy and Sweden Win v Belgium, Ireland must win by 2 more goals than Sweden do.

GROUP F:
Scenario 1: Hungary Win v Portugal
Scenario 2: Portugal Win v Hungary and Iceland Draw with Austria
Scenario 3: Iceland Draw with Austria and Portugal Draw with Hungary
Scenario 4: If Iceland Win v Austria, Portugal must Win by 5 goals v Hungary

[osarusan]

Historic first goal for Albania.

I thought Romania looked decent against France but they've been very poor since.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Looks likely enough that Ireland will be in a position to progress if they do beat Italy. If.

[geysir]

3 cheers for Albania, putting one over on rivals Romania, great atmosphere to the game, unforgettable experience for their fans, they're a team who could have gathered more points.
They're a bit savage though, untamed, reckless, old school scything tackles, elbows a plenty, they must be just going through their Leeds Utd (1970's vhs tapes) phase of their development.

[Stuttgart88]

Historic first goal for Albania.

I thought Romania looked decent against France but they've been very poor since.Romania undone by two routine crosses in the end. Pantillimon at 6 feet 6 or what ever he is would have gobbled up both.

[Stuttgart88]

Wales awesome so far. Allen, Bale and Ramsey all over them. Wales doing to Russia what we nearly did in '88.

[Stuttgart88]

Switched over to England game.

Hoddle after Bertrand nearly breaks a bloke's nose with an elbow. "It's not an elbow". Then replay shows full elbow in the mush. "Well it's slightly an elbow".

[Closed Account 2]

Tonight wasn't ideal from our point of view, we could have done with England winning, then Slovakia would only have had 3 points and couldn't have caught us (assuming we beat Italy which we have to). Our goal difference is too bad to be able to catch a team with 4 points.

What's left is hoping the Czechs don't beat Turkey (a draw or defeat would be ideal) or Northern Ireland don't pick up a point vs Germany or there are draws in Portugal v Hungary or Iceland v Austria.

[Cymro]

If Ireland beat Italy they should qualify. It's highly unlikely you would see Portugal beat Hungary (by less than three goals) AND Iceland beat Austria AND the Czech Rep beat Turkey AND Northern Ireland get something from the Germans. That is four results going against you.

The problem is, you have to beat the Italians......who always play like $hit for 88 minutes and then nick a goal late on.

[Cymro]

Russia were desperately poor tonight. For my money, probably the worst team at the finals, along with Ukraine. I've literally seen qualifiers against fifth seeds that were more competitive than that game. Cyprus gave us a better game (home and away).

[Cymro]

Switched over to England game.

Hoddle after Bertrand nearly breaks a bloke's nose with an elbow. "It's not an elbow". Then replay shows full elbow in the mush. "Well it's slightly an elbow".

I hope he gave Skrtel one for nearly flooring Jonny Williams in the opening game. If there was ever a case for a retrospective red card.....

[BonnieShels]

Wales awesome so far. Allen, Bale and Ramsey all over them. Wales doing to Russia what we nearly did in '88.

It's getting annoying that some teams are always doing things that we nearly did.

In some ways this tournament could end up more disappointing than 2012. This is the tournament that should be our Germany in Euro 2000.

[Stuttgart88]

Hey Cymro, many congrats. Are you out there?

Russia were awful alright but you still had to do the business and you certainly did. Very flattering that you think we're better than Russia & Ukraine :)

I was up in north Wales recently. Criccieth, near Porthmadog. Lovely spot, will go back.

[osarusan]

Incredible stuff by McGovern - one of the great goalkeeping performances.

[pineapple stu]

Definitely - especially for someone so unheralded really.

Germany did ease off with half an hour to go though, and it seems Poland v Ukraine was another snooze-fest. Goal-per-game average down to a record low of 1.77 per match - 0.45 fewer than Italia 90. Suggestion down the pub last night - not entirely jokingly - was that giving no points for a draw might be a way to stop all the negativity.

In this evening's matches, a one-goal win for Turkey is I think the only result that would help Albania - and that's what we have at the moment.

Lovely goal there for Croatia though.

Edit - a win for Turkey by two goals or less means the North are going through as well actually.

[pineapple stu]

2-0 Turkey now, and they're ahead of Albania.

The North can actually afford for Turkey to score again and still be ok.

[pineapple stu]

Ridiculous to not give a re-take for that Spain penalty - there's taking a step off your line to aid your dive, and there's taking three steps like the Croatian keeper did.

But that said, the Croatian call two minutes previously was a bigger call than the one that was given for Spain.

[osarusan]

Definitely - especially for someone so unheralded really.

Looks like his heroics will see NI get through on goal difference. Great reward for him.



BBC annoying me with their waffle about Albania being eliminated - no third-placed team can go out tonight, but teams can go through.

[Cymro]

Hey Cymro, many congrats. Are you out there?

Russia were awful alright but you still had to do the business and you certainly did. Very flattering that you think we're better than Russia & Ukraine :)

I was up in north Wales recently. Criccieth, near Porthmadog. Lovely spot, will go back.

Thanks Stuttgart88.

I was in Bordeaux for Slovakia. Couldn't get tickets/hotels/time off for the other games. Cracking trip, although the trains were running a non-service half the time due to strikes and sadly, in one case, a man dying of a heart attack on the train line at the Paris Metro.

I haven't been to North Wales in years, and never to Porthmadog. Bangor was enough to put me off for a while..... :D

Ireland in fairness probably have quite a bit to do before being as bad as the Russkrainians.....although I reserve judgement in case you lose 5-0 tomorrow! I'm sure that won't happen, if you win we most likely get NI in the last 16, so come on you boys in green!

[Cymro]

Ridiculous to not give a re-take for that Spain penalty - there's taking a step off your line to aid your dive, and there's taking three steps like the Croatian keeper did.

But that said, the Croatian call two minutes previously was a bigger call than the one that was given for Spain.

That was never a penalty anyway. There was almost no contact at leg level, and just a brush at torso level.

The official behind the goal must have been off somewhere else mentally. It's probably a hazard when you have nothing to do for 88 minutes.

They should just bring in TMOs for decisions like that.

[BonnieShels]

That was never a penalty anyway. There was almost no contact at leg level, and just a brush at torso level.

The official behind the goal must have been off somewhere else mentally. It's probably a hazard when you have nothing to do for 88 minutes.

They should just bring in TMOs for decisions like that.

It was somewhat justice for the penalty being given in the first place.

[osarusan]

This is where it all gets fascinating. Portugal equaliser knocks out Albania in the 'As it Stands' table.

[osarusan]

Albanians having heart attacks watching all this.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I like how he went to whip off his shirt and then changed his mind almost immediately.